I have noticed that TommyGun gets quite a few downloads when I release new versions, even when I have only made CPC or other machine updates.
So my question is what are people doing with it?
My initial guess is that the majority download it for curiosity only and have no intention of using it to do anything.
I would suspect only a handful of people actually use it for anything of real value.
Am I right?
I don't know so why not fill in the poll and tell me? ;)
I download it because I always tell myself that someday I'll get around to program a proper speccy game in machine code and would thus like a nice development environment but then I've never actually got around to it.
I downloaded it to give it a try out this weekend, but got somewhat distracted by a few other things. :)
I've got a list of glitches/bugs on the CPC side of things but I want to have a read through the docs first to make sure a few of them aren't already known about.
I use UEdit and WLA for editing and assembling code, and ProMotion, Sevenup and others for graphics.. so I don't really use TG as an IDE or graphic app. I'm most interested in TG for its map editor.. you know it's such a pain to build and tweak dozens of game maps without a proper app, it's no wonder I was so enthusiastic when I first heard of it! Unfortunately I can't give TG any real use yet since there are some essential (at least for me) features missing:
1. I'd like an option to intersect tiles so that blank chars don't cover the background. For example, say there's image A and image B:
AAA 0B0
AAA BBB
AAA 0B0
Note that '0' chars in image B represent blank chars.. we don't want them to cover the background when we put B over A. Like this:
AAA
AAB
ABBB
B
instead of:
AAA
A0B
ABBB
B
Hopefully you get the idea..
2. Not as essential as 1, but hey ;) .. I'd also like to reuse tiles with different colour schemes, i.e. one single image stored in memory -> different instances on a map, each with its own colour attributes.
I'm sorry to hear you're dropping TG.. it has SO MUCH potential! Anyway I'm positive TG is a very useful tool for a lot of people out there, so we all should be thankful for what we've got.
I'd like to see the music composer, or at least some sort of Spectrum oriented music editor, implemented. There don't seem to be any particularly good tools for the job around at the moment as far as i can tell.
As it stands, the map editor is the best feature at the moment and I'm quite happy with it. One of these days I might even finish off that map for the Zelda game. :-)
I've dabbled around with the image editor a bit and, although it looks up to the job, I think Seven Up fits my requirements better at the moment. Maybe I'd change my mind if I did a game with a huge amount of graphics though.
Much the same goes for the code editor. There don't seem to be any serious faults with it. However, no matter how good it gets, I doubt I'll ever be tempted away from EMACS, as I've spent half my life using it.
TrueVideo:
I'll be adding transparency support (and masked images) to the map editor soon(ish).
I want it help with Isometric games (eg. KnightLore) and will also be adding more features to help speed up editing like multiple selection, grouping of objects, layered objects and possibly a comment feature (a bit like tool tips for objects) so you can make comments about parts of your map.
I'll also be adding invisible objects that the user can define such as hit regions, triggers etc that can be exported into the code editor.
Matt_B:
No plans to complete the music editor anytime soon I'm afraid.
I need more thought on how to store the music in a machine independent manner and how to export it so it plays correctly on each machine.
The main feature of TommyGun for me is its machine independence, so I don't really want to make a spectrum only music editor at the moment.
Everyone else:
Please keep the suggestions coming and please continue voting.
It will help with future updates to TommyGun.
I have downloaded it just for curiosity, but I would really like to use it for creating Spectrum games.
As for now I write my code in assembler, create my graphics in Paint Shop Pro and then convert it with Sevenup.
Could anybody tell me what's the advantage of using Tommy Gun over my approach, what are the strong points of Tommy Gun? I'm sure I don't know all the features.
As far as I know, there isn't any complete game written with TommyGun. I would really like to see such a game. It would be really easier to learn using TommyGun and create something own then.
TrueVideo:
I'll be adding transparency support (and masked images) to the map editor soon(ish).
I want it help with Isometric games (eg. KnightLore) and will also be adding more features to help speed up editing like multiple selection, grouping of objects, layered objects and possibly a comment feature (a bit like tool tips for objects) so you can make comments about parts of your map.
I'll also be adding invisible objects that the user can define such as hit regions, triggers etc that can be exported into the code editor.
This is excellent news! These features would save me a good deal of work. My current project is at an advanced stage already but I've been holding back map design for quite some time now.
I have downloaded it just for curiosity, but I would really like to use it for creating Spectrum games.
As for now I write my code in assembler, create my graphics in Paint Shop Pro and then convert it with Sevenup.
Could anybody tell me what's the advantage of using Tommy Gun over my approach, what are the strong points of Tommy Gun? I'm sure I don't know all the features.
As far as I know, there isn't any complete game written with TommyGun. I would really like to see such a game. It would be really easier to learn using TommyGun and create something own then.
The single biggest advantage is that you don't need to use 3 different applications.
You also get to add your images directly into TommyGun's code editor as a resource.
So if you change you images then you only need to hit the update button or build button (because a build will update the resources if you like) and so you have you new images in your game asap.
You also get to launch your favorite emulator with a successful build thus the development process is more seemless.
Just a few of the advantages of TommyGun over conventional application use.
Matt_B:
No plans to complete the music editor anytime soon I'm afraid.
In the meantime you can use VortexTracker (http://bulba.at.kz/vortex_e.htm) for music - it's a bit like Soundtracker for Windows, which means it's AY only (no beeper tunes, if you like that sort of thing).
I use TG for some graphic editing (though I'm by no means an artist :( ) and use the tile editor for seeing how my sprites look together on screen. My only complaint is there's no direct "Save As.." or "Export" function for sprites - you're kind of tied to using the inbuilt Code Editor.
I don't use the Code Editor as I like the extra flexibility you get with an editor like PSPad - it's just like UltraEdit but FREEEEEE :) I have it set up as an IDE for z88dk at the moment using a makefile, one keypress compiles and one launches in Spectaculator. Anyway this thread's supposed to be about TommyGun, sorry..
This is excellent news! These features would save me a good deal of work. My current project is at an advanced stage already but I've been holding back map design for quite some time now.
Thanks Tony
J
I'll try to add them soon within the next few releases.
If people are willing to tell me what features they want, I'm more than happy to fullfill your requests.
Only problem is I'm not a mind reader, so you actually have to tell me otherwise they will go unrealised.
As far as I know, there isn't any complete game written with TommyGun. I would really like to see such a game. It would be really easier to learn using TommyGun and create something own then.
There are 3 good examples/demo's that come along with the TG package.
One is a basic game called Noughts and Crosses and is a complete game.
Ok, no sound because I'm bad a that part, but it would be a nice feature for someone else to add.
I also have my Gem machine TG file uploaded to my website and you can grab that to see how a game comes together.
Get the link from my sig. below.
So yes there are real games being made with TommyGun.
My only complaint is there's no direct "Save As.." or "Export" function for sprites - you're kind of tied to using the inbuilt Code Editor.
What would I save the file as? or export to? that isn't supported in the code editor?
Why not export to the code editor and then copy and paste into your other editor?
I'm sure that would still do 95% of what you need.
As for not using the editor, what feature *would* make you use it?
Configureable keys?
Customizeable syntax highlighting?
As far as I know, there isn't any complete game written with TommyGun. I would really like to see such a game. It would be really easier to learn using TommyGun and create something own then.
I have just finished a game for Cronosoft called Iron Sphere. Although I started writing it using SPIN, I transferred and completed it using TommyGun. I think that the code editor is really nice to use although I'd like to be able to use the BRIEF key mapping as configurable in Delphi.
It's been a while since I looked at the tile / mapping side of TommyGun. In Iron Sphere, information about two tiles was held in a single byte. Can TG produce customizable data storage to allow this?
Being able to resize an existing sprite would be nice. I created a sprite 14x16 and then decided that 16x16 would have been better. Being able to select the sprite and then choosing a resize option would have been useful.
Can you tell us more about Iron Sphere, when will it come out ? Also what type of game is it ? Make sure you send a copy to RG as well and they can review it/give it some publicity.
TrueVideo:
Matt_B:
No plans to complete the music editor anytime soon I'm afraid.
I need more thought on how to store the music in a machine independent manner and how to export it so it plays correctly on each machine.
The main feature of TommyGun for me is its machine independence, so I don't really want to make a spectrum only music editor at the moment.
I figured you'd say something like that. :-)
For when you get around to it, I can see three possible strategies:
1) Take the lowest common denominator approach. Unless you're adding beeper support (probably not worth it) that's probably going to be fairly close to the AY chip. I'd think something along the lines of: Notes (pitch, duration and maybe volume) on up to 3 channels. Each channel would then have a specific instrument (i.e. envelope), and volume control, with overall controls for volume and tempo. This should port easily across all formats with an interrupt-driven player, although it wouldn't really use the better sound chips on other systems to the best of their capabilities.
2) Create a format that includes all the capabilities of all supported sound chips and cut out unsupported features when you port down to a specific machine. This could end up very complicated and have unpredictable effects that may result in very poor music for some formats. Still, if you support format specific previewing that's something I'm sure people could deal with.
3) Support .mid or some other standard format. This is going to be even more complicated and total overkill for what most sound chips can do, but it would let you bring music composed on other tools in which could be quite handy.
My initial thoughts on the music composer/editor are
o Create a sound configuration file for each machine specifying what sound parameters the editor can use. eg. no of channels, effects, volume range etc.
o The music editor then operates similar to the Image editor in that it will only allow you to create music within the range and specification from the configuration file. So that means no syth music from the zx beeper. :)
o There would need to be a custom player (plugin) for each machine or possibly just each sound chip.
I have just finished a game for Cronosoft called Iron Sphere. Although I started writing it using SPIN, I transferred and completed it using TommyGun. I think that the code editor is really nice to use although I'd like to be able to use the BRIEF key mapping as configurable in Delphi.
It's been a while since I looked at the tile / mapping side of TommyGun. In Iron Sphere, information about two tiles was held in a single byte. Can TG produce customizable data storage to allow this?
Again with the new scripting language planned for the code editor this would be a breeze.
Being able to resize an existing sprite would be nice. I created a sprite 14x16 and then decided that 16x16 would have been better. Being able to select the sprite and then choosing a resize option would have been useful.
Alright this was going to be done after release 1.0, but looks like I need to do it sooner ;)
Also planning to allow you to change the palette of an image as well.
eg. From spectrum colour to monochrome or visa versa etc.
And because of the bug free (eh?!) undo/redo option you will be able to revert back to your previous image palette if you don't like the out come of the new palette change.
Anymore bright ideas to help keep me up all night programming? ;)
What would I save the file as? or export to? that isn't supported in the code editor?
Why not export to the code editor and then copy and paste into your other editor?
I'm sure that would still do 95% of what you need.
This is all true, of course. I guess I'm just awkward in that I've got used to storing my sprites etc in some configurable binary format (I'm thinking here of the sort of output options that BMP2SCR gives).
As for not using the editor, what feature *would* make you use it?
Configureable keys?
Customizeable syntax highlighting?
I tend to be a bit anal about automating my builds (eg I have a script that compiles, links, compresses, adds startup/bank copying code, converts to .TAP and TR-DOS in one button press). When I last looked at the code editor a few versions ago it didn't seem configurable enough to allow this - or maybe I wasn't looking hard enough ;)
Configurable colours/fonts in the editor would also be a help, as might some form of macros or key recording/playback.
Don't take this as a huge criticism, but I'm a strong believer in minimising unnecessary code - and to me the Code Editor / makefile options do seem to be re-inventing the wheel a little, since a plethora of very good free tools already exist to do these jobs.
That said, don't let it discourage you from developing what is a useful, user friendly and professional-looking tool - it just doesn't particularly suit the way I work. Others will have different opinions.
Personally, my code uses the mask BEFORE the graphic, rather than the other way around, so I have to re-order the columns of data before I can use it.
If I put that feature in would that make it easier for you to use?
Or would you stick to your current dev system?
TG already has an option to place the mask AFTER the data and it would be too easy to make swap the data/mask order to mask/data.
This is all true, of course. I guess I'm just awkward in that I've got used to storing my sprites etc in some configurable binary format (I'm thinking here of the sort of output options that BMP2SCR gives).
TG isn't designed to output binary data, its for creating updateable source code that gets compiled into binary data.
I tend to be a bit anal about automating my builds (eg I have a script that compiles, links, compresses, adds startup/bank copying code, converts to .TAP and TR-DOS in one button press). When I last looked at the code editor a few versions ago it didn't seem configurable enough to allow this - or maybe I wasn't looking hard enough ;)
You can launch a batch file (or script) from within TG, the same way you probably do it from your configureable editor.
Configurable colours/fonts in the editor would also be a help, as might some form of macros or key recording/playback.
No plans for macro or key recording/playback too hard to implement and not enough people would make use of it.
Configurable keys and colours will be in the next version.
Don't take this as a huge criticism, but I'm a strong believer in minimising unnecessary code - and to me the Code Editor / makefile options do seem to be re-inventing the wheel a little, since a plethora of very good free tools already exist to do these jobs.
Probably true, and I'll have a look at trying to integrate them into TG.
That said, don't let it discourage you from developing what is a useful, user friendly and professional-looking tool - it just doesn't particularly suit the way I work. Others will have different opinions.
TG is not for everyone, I agree.
I still welcome your comments and criticism.
I can't make it better if I don't fix what people perceive to be broke.
But to fix whats broken I must first be told what doesn't work by the people who use it or may want to use it.
Anyway this poll will help shape some of the features to be addressed in the next few versions over the next couple of months.
So have your say now or forever hold your piece until next year. ;)
Comments
So my question is what are people doing with it?
My initial guess is that the majority download it for curiosity only and have no intention of using it to do anything.
I would suspect only a handful of people actually use it for anything of real value.
Am I right?
I don't know so why not fill in the poll and tell me? ;)
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
I've got a list of glitches/bugs on the CPC side of things but I want to have a read through the docs first to make sure a few of them aren't already known about.
Cheers
1. I'd like an option to intersect tiles so that blank chars don't cover the background. For example, say there's image A and image B:
AAA 0B0
AAA BBB
AAA 0B0
Note that '0' chars in image B represent blank chars.. we don't want them to cover the background when we put B over A. Like this:
instead of:
Hopefully you get the idea..
2. Not as essential as 1, but hey ;) .. I'd also like to reuse tiles with different colour schemes, i.e. one single image stored in memory -> different instances on a map, each with its own colour attributes.
I'm sorry to hear you're dropping TG.. it has SO MUCH potential! Anyway I'm positive TG is a very useful tool for a lot of people out there, so we all should be thankful for what we've got.
Cheers
J
As it stands, the map editor is the best feature at the moment and I'm quite happy with it. One of these days I might even finish off that map for the Zelda game. :-)
I've dabbled around with the image editor a bit and, although it looks up to the job, I think Seven Up fits my requirements better at the moment. Maybe I'd change my mind if I did a game with a huge amount of graphics though.
Much the same goes for the code editor. There don't seem to be any serious faults with it. However, no matter how good it gets, I doubt I'll ever be tempted away from EMACS, as I've spent half my life using it.
I'll be adding transparency support (and masked images) to the map editor soon(ish).
I want it help with Isometric games (eg. KnightLore) and will also be adding more features to help speed up editing like multiple selection, grouping of objects, layered objects and possibly a comment feature (a bit like tool tips for objects) so you can make comments about parts of your map.
I'll also be adding invisible objects that the user can define such as hit regions, triggers etc that can be exported into the code editor.
Matt_B:
No plans to complete the music editor anytime soon I'm afraid.
I need more thought on how to store the music in a machine independent manner and how to export it so it plays correctly on each machine.
The main feature of TommyGun for me is its machine independence, so I don't really want to make a spectrum only music editor at the moment.
Everyone else:
Please keep the suggestions coming and please continue voting.
It will help with future updates to TommyGun.
As for now I write my code in assembler, create my graphics in Paint Shop Pro and then convert it with Sevenup.
Could anybody tell me what's the advantage of using Tommy Gun over my approach, what are the strong points of Tommy Gun? I'm sure I don't know all the features.
As far as I know, there isn't any complete game written with TommyGun. I would really like to see such a game. It would be really easier to learn using TommyGun and create something own then.
This is excellent news! These features would save me a good deal of work. My current project is at an advanced stage already but I've been holding back map design for quite some time now.
Thanks Tony
J
Write games in C using Z88DK and SP1
You also get to add your images directly into TommyGun's code editor as a resource.
So if you change you images then you only need to hit the update button or build button (because a build will update the resources if you like) and so you have you new images in your game asap.
You also get to launch your favorite emulator with a successful build thus the development process is more seemless.
Just a few of the advantages of TommyGun over conventional application use.
I use TG for some graphic editing (though I'm by no means an artist :( ) and use the tile editor for seeing how my sprites look together on screen. My only complaint is there's no direct "Save As.." or "Export" function for sprites - you're kind of tied to using the inbuilt Code Editor.
I don't use the Code Editor as I like the extra flexibility you get with an editor like PSPad - it's just like UltraEdit but FREEEEEE :) I have it set up as an IDE for z88dk at the moment using a makefile, one keypress compiles and one launches in Spectaculator. Anyway this thread's supposed to be about TommyGun, sorry..
If people are willing to tell me what features they want, I'm more than happy to fullfill your requests.
Only problem is I'm not a mind reader, so you actually have to tell me otherwise they will go unrealised.
Also explain why you want said crazy byte order ;)
One is a basic game called Noughts and Crosses and is a complete game.
Ok, no sound because I'm bad a that part, but it would be a nice feature for someone else to add.
I also have my Gem machine TG file uploaded to my website and you can grab that to see how a game comes together.
Get the link from my sig. below.
So yes there are real games being made with TommyGun.
Why not export to the code editor and then copy and paste into your other editor?
I'm sure that would still do 95% of what you need.
As for not using the editor, what feature *would* make you use it?
Configureable keys?
Customizeable syntax highlighting?
I have just finished a game for Cronosoft called Iron Sphere. Although I started writing it using SPIN, I transferred and completed it using TommyGun. I think that the code editor is really nice to use although I'd like to be able to use the BRIEF key mapping as configurable in Delphi.
It's been a while since I looked at the tile / mapping side of TommyGun. In Iron Sphere, information about two tiles was held in a single byte. Can TG produce customizable data storage to allow this?
Being able to resize an existing sprite would be nice. I created a sprite 14x16 and then decided that 16x16 would have been better. Being able to select the sprite and then choosing a resize option would have been useful.
Can you tell us more about Iron Sphere, when will it come out ? Also what type of game is it ? Make sure you send a copy to RG as well and they can review it/give it some publicity.
I figured you'd say something like that. :-)
For when you get around to it, I can see three possible strategies:
1) Take the lowest common denominator approach. Unless you're adding beeper support (probably not worth it) that's probably going to be fairly close to the AY chip. I'd think something along the lines of: Notes (pitch, duration and maybe volume) on up to 3 channels. Each channel would then have a specific instrument (i.e. envelope), and volume control, with overall controls for volume and tempo. This should port easily across all formats with an interrupt-driven player, although it wouldn't really use the better sound chips on other systems to the best of their capabilities.
2) Create a format that includes all the capabilities of all supported sound chips and cut out unsupported features when you port down to a specific machine. This could end up very complicated and have unpredictable effects that may result in very poor music for some formats. Still, if you support format specific previewing that's something I'm sure people could deal with.
3) Support .mid or some other standard format. This is going to be even more complicated and total overkill for what most sound chips can do, but it would let you bring music composed on other tools in which could be quite handy.
o Create a sound configuration file for each machine specifying what sound parameters the editor can use. eg. no of channels, effects, volume range etc.
o The music editor then operates similar to the Image editor in that it will only allow you to create music within the range and specification from the configuration file. So that means no syth music from the zx beeper. :)
o There would need to be a custom player (plugin) for each machine or possibly just each sound chip.
Again with the new scripting language planned for the code editor this would be a breeze.
Alright this was going to be done after release 1.0, but looks like I need to do it sooner ;)
Also planning to allow you to change the palette of an image as well.
eg. From spectrum colour to monochrome or visa versa etc.
And because of the bug free (eh?!) undo/redo option you will be able to revert back to your previous image palette if you don't like the out come of the new palette change.
Anymore bright ideas to help keep me up all night programming? ;)
Configurable colours/fonts in the editor would also be a help, as might some form of macros or key recording/playback.
Don't take this as a huge criticism, but I'm a strong believer in minimising unnecessary code - and to me the Code Editor / makefile options do seem to be re-inventing the wheel a little, since a plethora of very good free tools already exist to do these jobs.
That said, don't let it discourage you from developing what is a useful, user friendly and professional-looking tool - it just doesn't particularly suit the way I work. Others will have different opinions.
Personally, my code uses the mask BEFORE the graphic, rather than the other way around, so I have to re-order the columns of data before I can use it.
https://twitter.com/bobsstuffgames
https://www.facebook.com/bobs.stuff
http://www.bobs-stuff.co.uk
Or would you stick to your current dev system?
TG already has an option to place the mask AFTER the data and it would be too easy to make swap the data/mask order to mask/data.
You can launch a batch file (or script) from within TG, the same way you probably do it from your configureable editor.
No plans for macro or key recording/playback too hard to implement and not enough people would make use of it.
Configurable keys and colours will be in the next version.
Probably true, and I'll have a look at trying to integrate them into TG.
TG is not for everyone, I agree.
I still welcome your comments and criticism.
I can't make it better if I don't fix what people perceive to be broke.
But to fix whats broken I must first be told what doesn't work by the people who use it or may want to use it.
Anyway this poll will help shape some of the features to be addressed in the next few versions over the next couple of months.
So have your say now or forever hold your piece until next year. ;)