› ›

Firefox (new thoughts)

Where's that AY chip gone...Where's that AY chip gone...
edited November 2006 in Chit chat
Maybe more people would use Firefox if there was a version for the Speccy!
10 PRINT AT 2, 2; "Press F for Firefox or I for M$IE"
20 LET K$=INKEY$: IF K$="" THEN GO TO 20
30 IF K$="f" THEN GO TO 100
40 IF K$="i" THEN GO TO 60
50 GO TO 20
60 DEF FN M$(IE)=""+M$(IE)+""" is evil"
70 PRINT FN M$(IE)
REM etc

Probably the wrong number of "s. Ah well.
Post edited by Where's that AY chip gone... on
«1

Comments

  • icabodicabod
    edited November 2006
    Hmm. I think you need to define "M$(IE)" as "Knievel" in line 60.
  • DEATHDEATH
    edited November 2006
    And, your point is what Mr AY?

    Please tell me, in layman's terms, what the hell a Spectrum has to do with Firefox - or, not for the first time, I shall find it necessary to laugh at your superior intellect.
    Oh bugger!<br>
  • Where's that AY chip gone...Where's that AY chip gone...
    edited November 2006
    In layman's terms;
    Well, to start with, they're both good.
    Then, there's lots of people who program for both of them simply because they like to do so, and not to create saleable software or gain income.
    And I was sort of alluding to the Recursive functions thread over in Dev or Bas or some such; and M$(IE) is the 'Function of Evil' in disguise.
    And don't forget, this is Off Topic/Chit Chat. Stranger things have appeared here.

    BTW you can't spell 'In layman's terms' without AY, as I'm sure you had already noticed anyway.

    This must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
  • Ian HamiltonIan Hamilton
    edited November 2006
    Where's that AY chip gone... wrote:
    Location: Just to the left of Venus
    Sounds to me like you're talking out of Uranus.

    Sorry, I just couldn't resist that one. Then again, the old jokes are the classics for a very good reason. :)

    Necros.
  • SkarpoSkarpo
    edited November 2006
    First things first ... make sure your Speccy can attach itself to the wideweb.
  • Where's that AY chip gone...Where's that AY chip gone...
    edited November 2006
    That's part of the point;
    would it be possible to make a modem type interface etc using the tape socket for I/O?
    Could Z80 m/c handle the type of data I/O that would be required?
    I'm no hardware expert (obviously), but it seems as if it could be done (with great difficulty).

    <edit> Oh, and Necros, justtotheleftofvenus.tk is my website's brand new domain name.</edit>
  • rich_chandlerrich_chandler
    edited November 2006
    1. Why re-invent the wheel on an inferior machine?

    2. Where do you get the idea that the number of people writing code for the PC is comparable to those writing for the Spectrum?

    3. If by some miracle you managed to get your Spectrum connected to the internet and you wrote a Spectrum version of Firefox, how many websites would your Spectrum be able to display?

    4. How much RAM would your version of Firefox occupy and how big (in KB) is the most minimal website on the internet?

    5. Why are you a complete muppet?

    Please stop quoting HHGTTG, you are not worthy.
    Perhaps you should change your sig to "Don't try to engage my brain, because I haven't got one."...
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • monty.molemonty.mole
    edited November 2006
    Is it the half-term holiday over there or something?
  • rich_chandlerrich_chandler
    edited November 2006
    monty.mole wrote:
    Is it the half-term holiday over there or something?
    His mum should have put him to bed hours ago...
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • chop983chop983
    edited November 2006
    Skarpo wrote:
    First things first ... make sure your Speccy can attach itself to the wideweb.

    It's called Interweb these days :smile:
  • Where's that AY chip gone...Where's that AY chip gone...
    edited November 2006
    karingal wrote:
    1. Why re-invent the wheel on an inferior machine?
    Because can we?
    2. Where do you get the idea that the number of people writing code for the PC is comparable to those writing for the Spectrum?
    I suggested no such thing
    3. If by some miracle you managed to get your Spectrum connected to the internet and you wrote a Spectrum version of Firefox, how many websites would your Spectrum be able to display?
    Well since you can handle Google on a 2400 baud packet link, there are clearly minimalist sites out there. And if you are talking about the graphics capability, well, text-only is a viable way to browse, is it not?
    4. How much RAM would your version of Firefox occupy and how big (in KB) is the most minimal website on the internet?
    Obviously I have no absolute figures for this (because I am doing all this off the top of my head), but I'm sure it could be done. And my site may not be the most minimal, but my home page is 1.16kB. Even a Speccy can hold that. And of course there's always RAMpackness. When it doesn't wobble.
    And how about Telnet?
    5. Why are you a complete muppet?
    That comment is completely unsupported.
    Please stop quoting HHGTTG, you are not worthy.
    Perhaps you should change your sig to "Don't try to engage my brain, because I haven't got one."...
    And as for that one - I know this isn't a good thing but I daresay I've read the Guide more times than you have.
  • Scottie_ukScottie_uk
    edited November 2006
    AY

    1- Do you even know what a recursive function is??

    2- Even coping with the OSI seven layer model for TCP/IP may be a stuggle for the spectrum without extensive addon hardware... let alone implimenting usable a browser.


    However, in the 80's our highschool had a rubber 48k with model hooked up to the local councils educational bulletin board called Oxsys. It was like looking at teletext. Even though my uncle was the computing teacher at our school I still never got to have a go on it :(.
    Calling all ASCII Art Architects Visit the WOS Wall of Text and contribute: https://www.yourworldoftext.com/wos
  • Where's that AY chip gone...Where's that AY chip gone...
    edited November 2006
    1 - A recursive function is a function which calls itself. This can be done to positive effect, but if done incorrectly it can result in an explosion of call stack, which is one of the many ways in which the inexperienced user can catastrophically mess up.
    2 - Yes, but with extensive additional hardware, could it be done? Not that it really matters, just idle speculation as to the limits of the Speccy's capability.

    How did Oxsys work then? Or were you never able to find out because you never got a go on it?

    Indeed, what I am suggesting - a text-only internet connection for the Spectrum - would look quite like teletext. Except that teletext was done with a Beeb of course.
  • DEATHDEATH
    edited November 2006
    AY

    Since you argue against those who know better, you obviously think you know what you are doing. Why not, instead of posting proposals or ideas that seem pie in the sky, research your ideas and give us something concrete instead of something that seems so blatantly childish and unworkable in concept, as to make you look a fool.

    Prove me wrong - you go off and create a version of Firefox for the Spectrum, that works, connects to the net properly etc etc etc, and you will get all the respect and adulation you would so rightly deserve. If you fail, no doubt half the forum will laugh at you. They would be fools to do so, as the other half would most likely find a bit of respect for the fact you tried.

    The fact that you just spout hot air on impossibilities or irrelevancies deny you the very things you crave the most. Instead of respect you just bring ridicule on yourself instead.
    Oh bugger!<br>
  • Scottie_ukScottie_uk
    edited November 2006
    Understanding what recursion is and what you can do with it two very different skills.

    Nope teletext may have been done with a Beeb in the period 82-9#.

    However the BBC UK teletext service has been running since February 1976. The first TV sets to have teletext were made by PYE. BBC micro's were not arround then.

    Yes with extensive hardware I'm sure the spectrum could do it. With exstensive hardware I'm sure I could give my Spectrum the power of a PC.
    The spectrum would then effectivly become a keyboad and power unit for the rest of the system which would generate images, sound and do processing. However you have to ask your self how extensive is practical and where is the line drawn between hardware being an extention of the Spectrum or the Spectrum being an extention the hardware.
    Calling all ASCII Art Architects Visit the WOS Wall of Text and contribute: https://www.yourworldoftext.com/wos
  • rich_chandlerrich_chandler
    edited November 2006
    Where's that AY chip gone... wrote:
    Because can we?
    If you can't get your words in the correct order how do you expect to code the Spectrum version of Firefox.
    I suggested no such thing
    I think you suggested so with the comment "there's lots of people who program for both of them".
    Well since you can handle Google on a 2400 baud packet link, there are clearly minimalist sites out there. And if you are talking about the graphics capability, well, text-only is a viable way to browse, is it not?
    If you're only view text only websites then do you really need to a version of Firefox? Surely you should be writing a browser tailor-made to view text only.
    Obviously I have no absolute figures for this (because I am doing all this off the top of my head), but I'm sure it could be done. And my site may not be the most minimal, but my home page is 1.16kB. Even a Speccy can hold that. And of course there's always RAMpackness. When it doesn't wobble.
    And how about Telnet?
    You've got 40k (approx) to play with. You'll need space for your browser (at a guess 5k though I think that could be conservative), probably a couple of kb for workspace though that would probably be dynamic. I would suggest you would be very limited in the sites you could access. I would also Google Telnet if I were you.

    I think you'll find RAM wobble was back in the days of the ZX81 when the RAM pack was an add-on which plugged into the back of the ZX81 and was prone to disconnecting itself due to it's size and weight, not to mention flimsyness of the ZX81 port.
    That comment is completely unsupported.
    I refer to virtually all your posts on these forums...
    And as for that one - I know this isn't a good thing but I daresay I've read the Guide more times than you have.
    I doubt it, the Guide is just a figment of Douglas Adams' imagination, it was never real, sorry to shatter your illusions.
    Unless you mean the book by Adams then I very much doubt that as well.
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • Where's that AY chip gone...Where's that AY chip gone...
    edited November 2006
    karingal wrote:
    If you can't get your words in the correct order how do you expect to code the Spectrum version of Firefox.
    That is a cross between Because we can and Or can we? I am asking whether it can be done, not saying I would like the idea of trying to do it personally.
    I think you suggested so with the comment "there's lots of people who program for both of them".
    'Lots' <> '=='
    If you're only view text only websites then do you really need to a version of Firefox? Surely you should be writing a browser tailor-made to view text only.
    I mean a browser tailor-made for only displaying the text on websites, which exhibits as many as possible of the Firefox features, eg tabs. Also exhibiting the Firefox logo.
    You've got 40k (approx) to play with. You'll need space for your browser (at a guess 5k though I think that could be conservative), probably a couple of kb for workspace though that would probably be dynamic. I would suggest you would be very limited in the sites you could access. I would also Google Telnet if I were you.
    Well considering that my website's aboutme page (not the _h version of course) is 5.26kB, and that's already quite a lot of text, and hyperlink code and so on... you could maybe even cache the previously viewed couple of pages??? (another Fx feature)
    I think you'll find RAM wobble was back in the days of the ZX81 when the RAM pack was an add-on which plugged into the back of the ZX81 and was prone to disconnecting itself due to it's size and weight, not to mention flimsyness of the ZX81 port.
    Still, if you have an externally connected RAM pack (and if you have a modem linked to the Speccy it could also be connected to more RAM) it can still disconnect due to flex tension, or even be Chunteyed (since this would all use the tape socket). Not to mention that the correct spelling is flimsiness.
    I refer to virtually all your posts on these forums...
    I refer to the comment I made upon which your above comment is commenting on; i.e. the unsupportability of your comments.
    I doubt it, the Guide is just a figment of Douglas Adams' imagination, it was never real, sorry to shatter your illusions.
    Unless you mean the book by Adams then I very much doubt that as well.
    Obviously I mean the book by Adams. Why do you doubt it? How many times have you read it then? (Let's not start a trivia war, I'm not here often enough to do that)

    Oh, and Scottie_uk, perhaps the Speccy would end up little more than a terminal, but then again maybe the Speccy could be made to require merely a modem of a different type to standard. Maybe this could all be done on an SE or a +3e? Many possibilities present themselves - surely one of them is workable? And if we're going to split hairs about teletext, Beeb MODE 7 was really there simply because it was already Teletext's standard (IIRC). And what about Oracle?
  • monty.molemonty.mole
    edited November 2006
    There's no point arguing with Karingal; he's a lot older and wiser than you are. The best thing to do would be for you to go away and write your Spectrum version of Firefox. When it's ready, come back and astound us with it. Until then, shut up about it.
  • rich_chandlerrich_chandler
    edited November 2006
    Where's that AY chip gone... wrote:
    That is a cross between Because we can and Or can we? I am asking whether it can be done, not saying I would like the idea of trying to do it personally.
    No, it's just bad english.
    'Lots' <> '=='
    Where do you get the idea there are 'lots' of Spectrum coders about? Because you've seen a dozen or so posting on WOS?
    I mean a browser tailor-made for only displaying the text on websites, which exhibits as many as possible of the Firefox features, eg tabs. Also exhibiting the Firefox logo.
    copyright issue?

    Surely writing you own browser and then plonking the Firefox logo on it is virtually criminal since you have done so without the knowledge or permission of Mozilla. I don't think they would be very happy.
    Open source does not mean 'allowed to steal'
    Still, if you have an externally connected RAM pack
    would not need to be starting with a 16k Spectrum in the first place?
    (and if you have a modem linked to the Speccy it could also be connected to more RAM) it can still disconnect due to flex tension, or even be Chunteyed (since this would all use the tape socket).
    Why not a 128k Spectrum?

    This is starting to move away from a Spectrum into a bastardized, heavily updated Speccy clone. Why not go the whole hog and rewrite the ROM incorporating a web browser? Perhaps you could flog it to Bill Gates.
    Not to mention that the correct spelling is flimsiness.
    Thanks for the spelling correction. I'll just continue to correct your grammar.
    I refer to the comment I made upon which your above comment is commenting on; i.e. the unsupportability of your comments.
    I beg to differ.

    This is a good one...

    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/images/statusicon/thread_hot.gif Lesser used BASIC commands
    Views: 4,287
    Posted By Where's that AY chip gone...
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif Well...

    I'm beginning to run out of cgc ideas. My target is to write 100 this year (and send in 10 every year from now until 2015 eek!) but so far I've only done 42 completeds, and the ideas are getting...



    and this one...

    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/images/statusicon/thread_hot.gif A Public Service Announcement
    Views: 2,709
    Posted By Where's that AY chip gone...
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif Hang on a minute

    For ****'s sake! I am not the mysterious internaut! He is a completely different person! And actually my website has been hacked out of his, I gamestaged most of his html so that's why the styles...


    or maybe this one...

    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/images/statusicon/thread_hot.gif Is there any Sinclair world cup anthem?
    Views: 161
    Posted By Where's that AY chip gone...
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif Slightly OT but then this is 'Off topic > Chit Chat'

    <<<<<<<<LONG POST ALERT!!!>>>>>>>>>

    I wrote some lyrics about the Speccy to the tune of 'Catch A Falling Star'.

    They go like this:

    Catch Sir Clive Sinclair and put him in your pocket
    Alan Sugar's...


    Need I say more?
    Obviously I mean the book by Adams. Why do you doubt it? How many times have you read it then? (Let's not start a trivia war, I'm not here often enough to do that)
    Not obviously. Some people still believe the world is flat, we have been visited by aliens and Skarpo still believes we can make the world a better place by hugging each other at every given opportunity.
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • rich_chandlerrich_chandler
    edited November 2006
    I forgot this one...

    thread_hot_lock.gif Poll: Ay Chip & his 'friend' - the poll!
    Views: 1,540
    Posted By Where's that AY chip gone...
    icon1.gif Ah but...

    Being able to do a couple of GCSEs 2 years early may not prove me a genius but it sure shows I'm not afraid of maths.

    And I'm not spouting made-up stuff at all.

    And I know I'm not a genius. But I...
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • SkarpoSkarpo
    edited November 2006
    karingal wrote:
    ...
    Need I say more?
    Not obviously. Some people still believe the world is flat, we have been visited by aliens and Skarpo still believes we can make the world a better place by hugging each other at every given opportunity.
    Well ... I'm at least one ahead of the others ;-)

    Group hug!!!

    Skarpo
    :-)
  • CKayCKay
    edited November 2006
    ~arguing with karingal~ Ooooh, eez dunnit now !

    There`s no place better to come for an argument....














    or a hug... ahem.

    Let`s settle this in a mature manner, and see who can piss over yon high wall? Eh? Conker`s? Snot Fight? eh`m

    Get`s Coat
  • SkarpoSkarpo
    edited November 2006
    If you are here to "come" for a hug, then you'll have to talk to some other people ... erm ... I'm not going make any Mel the Bell jokes now though.

    ;-)
  • CKayCKay
    edited November 2006
    That does sound wrong, hehe :) I`ve come for an argument then, I completely agree with everything young Edwin`s said and shall rigorously defend any points made.. Just need 100 acid, two crates and 60 tabs and should be able to manage :D
  • SkarpoSkarpo
    edited November 2006
    CKay wrote:
    That does sound wrong, hehe :) I`ve come for an argument then, I completely agree with everything young Edwin`s said and shall rigorously defend any points made.. Just need 100 acid, two crates and 60 tabs and should be able to manage :D

    I'm pretty sure there are people around here that can help you with finding those supplies Mr. MacGyver.

    ;-)
  • CKayCKay
    edited November 2006
    Naah, I`m tired *_+ AY`s plenty old enough to stick up for himself, I`m fickle like that :) I`ll have a cup of tea, a nice sit down and a slice of cake instead !
  • monty.molemonty.mole
    edited November 2006
    I just want to see how this pans out.

    Will Edwin, with his superior intellect and boundless youthful energy win out over the wizened Karingal, who's been around the block a few times and has seen it all before...?

    Anakin Skywalker vs. Yoda...? ;)
  • udgoverloadudgoverload
    edited November 2006
    Skarpo wrote:
    First things first ... make sure your Speccy can attach itself to the wideweb.

    Would this be the Living Room-wide Web? :)
  • SkarpoSkarpo
    edited November 2006
    udgoverload wrote:
    Would this be the Living Room-wide Web? :)

    Hmmm ... as long as you are holding your breath and your mum doesn't barge in through the door while you are loading up your fave text-only pr0n site, I'm pretty sure that it could work.
    Hello Mel_the_Bell.
    Welcome to text-porn 1978-style.
    You see a semi-naked being. He/she/it is slowly taking off bits of clothing.
    What now?
    >>>

    Here's to hoping that the Living Room-wide Web doesn't get Chunteyed too often!
  • SkarpoSkarpo
    edited November 2006
    karingal wrote:
    ...
    Need I say more?
    Not obviously. Some people still believe the world is flat, we have been visited by aliens and Skarpo still believes we can make the world a better place by hugging each other at every given opportunity.
    Well ... not quite at every given opportunity. I prefer strategic hugging. One ought not go throwing ones arms around people's waistline/chestarea/neck/legs/etc willy-nillly, left and right whenever one feels like it. There's a whole un-written section on hug-etiquette somewhere (read nowhere, yet somewhere inside my head at least) around.

    Skarpo
    ;-)
Sign In or Register to comment.