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Game Editors

aktiv8aktiv8
edited September 2010 in Games
Well as the title says, this is a query about game editors, specifically the ones for Gremlin games...

Many moons ago, Your Sinclair published (I think over 2 parts) an editor for Future Knight by Peter Harrap and Shaun Hollingsworth and from waht I remember it worked pretty well! In teh blurb they promised to give the code for the Monty Mole one, but alas this never materialsed.

Does anyone know if it did appear anywhere else or if there would ever be a chance of things like this appearing?
Post edited by aktiv8 on
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Comments

  • muldermulder
    edited January 2008
    Well, I've written an editor for Bubble Bobble. It's available for download here and it's for Windows, but produces snapshots and tap files for emulators. I only wrote it a few months ago, in Delphi. Took about 4 weeks, but I don't have a clue how I managed it now. I just got quite focussed on it. I started one for Gauntlet too, but I've not had the inclination to finish it yet.

    I'm sure somebody could easily figure out how Monty Mole works and produce an editor.

    Also, see the F1 and Bombjack editors. There's a Run Baby Run one out there too.
  • zxspecticlezxspecticle
    edited January 2008
    mulder wrote: »
    Well, I've written an editor for Bubble Bobble. It's available for download here and it's for Windows, but produces snapshots and tap files for emulators. I only wrote it a few months ago, in Delphi. Took about 4 weeks, but I don't have a clue how I managed it now. I just got quite focussed on it. I started one for Gauntlet too, but I've not had the inclination to finish it yet.

    I'm sure somebody could easily figure out how Monty Mole works and produce an editor.

    Also, see the F1 and Bombjack editors. There's a Run Baby Run one out there too.

    A Gauntlet editor would be way cool!
  • ZnorXmanZnorXman
    edited January 2008
    @Mulder: Go for the Gauntlet one, please.
  • Battle BunnyBattle Bunny
    edited January 2008
    There's a Gauntlet Editor and a Gauntlet Mapper at TTFn.

    The Future Knight editor was published as Star Tip 4 (Block Store Screen Editor) in YS, which is why you won't find it listed under F.

    None of the Sinclair mags published a Monty Mole editor.
  • aktiv8aktiv8
    edited January 2008
    Battle Bunny wrote: »

    None of the Sinclair mags published a Monty Mole editor.

    Thats exactly what I thought as I pretty much was getting every mag at the time...

    I agree with the above that it should be fairly easy to do something like this for a good coder.

    Certainly I think editors are a niche that need to be explored as would certinaly perhaps ghelp with homebrew fan games on the original platform (if the editors output TAP files or similar)
  • mjwilsonmjwilson
    edited January 2008
    Still disgruntled that Crash's Sweevo's editor (from the playing tips supplement) didn't work.
  • CUCHULAINNCUCHULAINN
    edited January 2008
    mjwilson wrote: »
    Still disgruntled that Crash's Sweevo's editor (from the playing tips supplement) didn't work.


    Are you kidding me?? I would have been furious if I'd ever finished typing that code out. The only reason I didn't was because me and two other mates were ment to type out our allocated sections, cos none of us could be arsed to type the whole lot out, but they never did theirs.
  • mjwilsonmjwilson
    edited January 2008
    CUCHULAINN wrote: »
    Are you kidding me?? I would have been furious if I'd ever finished typing that code out. The only reason I didn't was because me and two other mates were ment to type out our allocated sections, cos none of us could be arsed to type the whole lot out, but they never did theirs.

    I think a couple of people have typed it in independently without it working, and someone had the cassette which you could order from CRASH, so that should pretty much be guaranteed to work. But no.
  • Battle BunnyBattle Bunny
    edited January 2008
    mjwilson wrote: »
    I think a couple of people have typed it in independently without it working, and someone had the cassette which you could order from CRASH, so that should pretty much be guaranteed to work. But no.

    (Sweevo's World editor) I thought that "someone" was you? At least, you uploaded the TZX from the Crash tape to a.b.c.s. back in 2003, and I spent some time on it but failed to get either the tape or microdrive options to work. No-one else had any luck with it either. There's some postings on the topic in c.s.s. Oct/Nov.2003.
  • mjwilsonmjwilson
    edited January 2008
    Battle Bunny wrote: »
    (Sweevo's World editor) I thought that "someone" was you? At least, you uploaded the TZX from the Crash tape to a.b.c.s. back in 2003, and I spent some time on it but failed to get either the tape or microdrive options to work. No-one else had any luck with it either. There's some postings on the topic in c.s.s. Oct/Nov.2003.

    I seem to remember typing it up. I'm not sure whether I was the person who TZXed the tape though. I definitely didn't have the tape back in the day, so I would have had to have Ebayed it since, but I don't remember that.

    Matthew
  • CUCHULAINNCUCHULAINN
    edited January 2008
    aktiv8 wrote: »
    Well as the title says, this is a query about game editors, specifically the ones for Gremlin games...

    Many moons ago, Your Sinclair published (I think over 2 parts) an editor for Future Knight by Peter Harrap and Shaun Hollingsworth and from waht I remember it worked pretty well! In teh blurb they promised to give the code for the Monty Mole one, but alas this never materialsed.

    Does anyone know if it did appear anywhere else or if there would ever be a chance of things like this appearing?

    I have never played Future Knight before. I have no idea why I never checked it out cos by the screenshots I'd seen, it looked great. One of those games that just slipped my mind.
    mjwilson wrote: »
    CUCHULAINN wrote: »
    Are you kidding me?? I would have been furious if I'd ever finished typing that code out. The only reason I didn't was because me and two other mates were ment to type out our allocated sections, cos none of us could be arsed to type the whole lot out, but they never did theirs.

    I think a couple of people have typed it in independently without it working, and someone had the cassette which you could order from CRASH, so that should pretty much be guaranteed to work. But no.

    I still have my half typed Sweevo code on cassette somewhere in my garage.
  • Battle BunnyBattle Bunny
    edited January 2008
    CUCHULAINN wrote: »
    I still have my half typed Sweevo code on cassette somewhere in my garage.

    The Sweevo's World editor and other files from the Crash Playing Tips special cassette are on the TZX Vault.

    I've had another look at it. The tape version of the editor, after loading SW, loops around a chunk of code at 6914h-698Eh which just shuffles stuff around in registers with no way out. This section of code is from SW's main program code block, not part of the type-in code.

    The microdrive version fails differently; ie. it crashes rather than getting stuck in a loop.

    PS. On checking further, the microdrive version gets stuck in the same loop of code as the tape version. I'd assumed it had crashed as it messes up the screen first, whereas the tape version leaves the SW loading screen in place.
  • muldermulder
    edited January 2008
    Battle Bunny wrote: »
    There's a Gauntlet Editor and a Gauntlet Mapper at TTFn.

    I based my editor on the one printed in YS. I'd prefer to do one that could use the level packer / unpacker of the original game though, as the YS one couldn't put Death enemies in, or use different coloured walls or choose the start position of the player.

    Also, the one in YS was bugged, so you have to re-write parts of it if you want to use it. Not so hard I suppose, it's in Basic after all.
  • psj3809psj3809
    edited January 2008
    I've used the Bubble Bobble editor a lot and its cool and easy to use. Also love the Bombjack editor.

    So very glad that theres gonna be a Gauntlet editor big time !!!!
  • muldermulder
    edited January 2008
    The main problem is that although it was only a few months back, I look at the code I wrote then and go, 'erm, what?' I've got a few different things going on that get in the way of this kind of thing getting finished I'm afraid.

    Here's a test version of the Gauntlet editor. Mr Anon and Dunny helped out with some of the code.

    http://download.yousendit.com/830F5C481ED69BAF

    Hope you can understand how to use it! You'll need to go the the File menu and save the player file to actually play your levels, as they don't load into the normal version of Gauntlet. Save all, saves 25 maps in one tap. Save map just saves one per tap.
  • psj3809psj3809
    edited January 2008
    Is it possible to have like hottext or rollover text over some of the objects as i cant figure out what 'baddies' come out of some of them

    If i save one tap how do i then play that as double clicking the file doesnt do much. Do i have to load it up with something ?
  • muldermulder
    edited January 2008
    psj3809 wrote: »
    Is it possible to have like hottext or rollover text over some of the objects as i cant figure out what 'baddies' come out of some of them

    If i save one tap how do i then play that as double clicking the file doesnt do much. Do i have to load it up with something ?

    Well, I'm not sure if it could be set up to display some text when you roll over certain 'objects', as they are all drawn to the same panel. I'm sure if I used separate panels I could have the text appear though. That would take so much more work though, to have everything in it's own box. There would be a manual written that would tell you which enemy comes out of which object in the final version, if I ever get it done :)

    To play the levels you save, either a single map or the set of 25, you must first use the Save Player .tap option. This makes the actual game code .tap. Then you load that first and when the game is asking to 'rewind side 2', just insert your level .tap instead.

    Another thing - When you design a level, bear in mind the player starts top-left, so leave room for them to appear in!
  • Mr. AnonymousMr. Anonymous
    edited January 2008
    mjwilson wrote: »
    Still disgruntled that Crash's Sweevo's editor (from the playing tips supplement) didn't work.

    Be disgruntled no more. Here's Phil Churchyard's editor from issue 27 up 'n' running. Only a snapshot atm using WoS tzx.

    Instructions from the mag.
  • mjwilsonmjwilson
    edited January 2008
    Mr. Anonymous wrote: »
    Be disgruntled no more. Here's Phil Churchyard's editor from issue 27 up 'n' running. Only a snapshot atm using WoS tzx.

    Instructions from the mag.

    Wow. How did you manage that?
  • Mr. AnonymousMr. Anonymous
    edited January 2008
    mjwilson wrote: »
    Wow. How did you manage that?

    A rolly and a moment of contemplation usually sorts things out. Just a question of getting to know the progs inside and out really, then piecing everything slowly together. As you suss one thing, another becomes clearer and before you know it, job's a gud 'un.
    Or something like that :)

    The actual changes required to get it functional amounts to just 13 bytes. However, when I was giving it the once over thinking all was done and I could get back to doing what I was supposed to, I noticed that the special object graphics appeared as garbage. On closer inspection it was found that the editor was overwriting these graphics by a few hundred bytes :x Not a bug with the editor though as it seems a reasonable assumption that the editor worked perfectly on one particular version of Sweevo which by the looks of things was the only copy ever made!

    It was then a case of do we shift the graphics or the editor? I opted for the latter :roll: and then had to sift through over 2.5k of editor code to manually drop every unrelative jump, call and whathaveyou in the old area to the new one. From 13 bytes it shot up to 278 bytes and due to the time taken, it increased the chance of a mistake being introduced so let's just hope I changed 'em all ;)

    So, from just 10 lines of corrections required to the basic program, it was now too many to count so I didn't bother. The copy and paste facility of BASin helped enormously to get all the lines sorted out but still a major job just to get the special items graphics back.

    Anyway, enough waffle, here's the 'Playing Tips' TZX back fully working.
  • zxbrunozxbruno
    edited January 2008
    Since it's a thread about game editors, I would like to know if someone has ever seen a Laser Squad editor. I would love to create my own scenarios. Makes me wonder how they did the unofficial expansion kit. :)
  • zeropolis79zeropolis79
    edited January 2008
    zxbruno wrote: »
    Since it's a thread about game editors, I would like to know if someone has ever seen a Laser Squad editor. I would love to create my own scenarios. Makes me wonder how they did the unofficial expansion kit. :)

    I thought the Laser Squad Expansion Kit was an official program, well my CPC version was an official one..
  • zxbrunozxbruno
    edited January 2008
    My bad. It was official, and the remix wasn't. Still, a Laser Squad editor would be really nice. :)
  • robert@fmrobert@fm
    edited January 2008
    I suppose there definitely isn't a Stonkers editor. :)
    I never make misteaks mistrakes misyales errurs — oh, sod it.
  • jpjp
    edited January 2008
    Mr. Anonymous wrote: »
    A rolly and a moment of contemplation usually sorts things out. Just a question of getting to know the progs inside and out really, then piecing everything slowly together. As you suss one thing, another becomes clearer and before you know it, job's a gud 'un.
    Or something like that :)

    The actual changes required to get it functional amounts to just 13 bytes. However, when I was giving it the once over thinking all was done and I could get back to doing what I was supposed to, I noticed that the special object graphics appeared as garbage. On closer inspection it was found that the editor was overwriting these graphics by a few hundred bytes :x Not a bug with the editor though as it seems a reasonable assumption that the editor worked perfectly on one particular version of Sweevo which by the looks of things was the only copy ever made!

    It was then a case of do we shift the graphics or the editor? I opted for the latter :roll: and then had to sift through over 2.5k of editor code to manually drop every unrelative jump, call and whathaveyou in the old area to the new one. From 13 bytes it shot up to 278 bytes and due to the time taken, it increased the chance of a mistake being introduced so let's just hope I changed 'em all ;)

    So, from just 10 lines of corrections required to the basic program, it was now too many to count so I didn't bother. The copy and paste facility of BASin helped enormously to get all the lines sorted out but still a major job just to get the special items graphics back.

    Anyway, enough waffle, here's the 'Playing Tips' TZX back fully working.

    This really is a fantastic effort!!! ... Phil Churchyard will finally be able to sleep peacefully ;)
    Is the fix available in an assembler format?
    jp nz | TZXs updated with new loading screens | youtube bits and bobs
  • muldermulder
    edited January 2008
    Mr. Anonymous wrote: »
    Anyway, enough waffle, here's the 'Playing Tips' TZX back fully working.

    Nice one, I'll have a play with that later on.

    Did you ever get the email with my Gauntlet editor BTW?
  • Mr. AnonymousMr. Anonymous
    edited January 2008
    jp wrote: »
    Is the fix available in an assembler format?

    Yes, here if you want it although I've had to abandon my usual working practices to add a comment or two :) Oh, and it was made using Spin emulator.
    mulder wrote: »
    Did you ever get the email with my Gauntlet editor BTW?

    Yes, still got it thanks M, but I haven't had any more updates :-? so pull yer finger out and stop slacking lad! :)


    Edit: To ZxBruno :- MatGubbins already did what you require and more stuff too.
    http://www.angelfire.com/retro/carcass/index.htm
  • mjwilsonmjwilson
    edited January 2008
    Mr. Anonymous wrote: »
    A rolly and a moment of contemplation usually sorts things out. Just a question of getting to know the progs inside and out really, then piecing everything slowly together. As you suss one thing, another becomes clearer and before you know it, job's a gud 'un.
    Or something like that :)

    You make it sound so simple! I spent ages hacking on Fairlight 2 and still didn't find what I was looking for.
  • zxbrunozxbruno
    edited January 2008
    Mr. Anonymous wrote: »
    To ZxBruno :- MatGubbins already did what you require and more stuff too.
    http://www.angelfire.com/retro/carcass/index.htm

    Awesome!!! Thank you! :-o
  • jpjp
    edited January 2008
    Inspired by the effort put in Mr Anonymous to fix the Sweevo's World Editor, I've put a patch together to run the editor via microdrive under emulation...

    The sweevorom, sweevosave and editor programs use a generic routine to checksum the fitted issue of IF1 rom.
    This checksum example is ripped out of the main editor:
    l_f4a3:	ld de, $0000		 ; f4a3 11 00 00 $0ats
	ld hl, $0000		 ; f4a6 21 00 00 $0ats
l_f4a9: ld a, (hl)		 ; f4a9 7e $07ts
	add a, e		 ; f4aa 83 $04ts
	ld e, a			 ; f4ab 5f $04ts
	jr nc, l_f4af		 ; f4ac 30 01 $07/$0cts
	inc d			 ; f4ae 14 $04ts
l_f4af: inc hl			 ; f4af 23 $06ts
	ld a, h			 ; f4b0 7c $04ts
	cp $40			 ; f4b1 fe 40 $07ts
	jr nz, l_f4a9		 ; f4b3 20 f4 $07/$0cts
	xor a			 ; f4b5 af $04ts
	ld ($5c81), a		 ; f4b6 32 81 5c $0dts
	ld hl, $272a		 ; f4b9 21 2a 27 $0ats
	sbc hl, de		 ; f4bc ed 52 $0fts
	jr nz, l_f4c5		 ; f4be 20 05 $07/$0cts
	ld a, $01		 ; f4c0 3e 01 $07ts
	ld ($5c81), a		 ; f4c2 32 81 5c $0dts
l_f4c5: ld hl, $7f7a		 ; f4c5 21 7a 7f $0ats
	and a			 ; f4c8 a7 $04ts
	sbc hl, de		 ; f4c9 ed 52 $0fts
	ret nz			 ; f4cb c0 $05/$0bts
	ld a, $02		 ; f4cc 3e 02 $07ts
	ld ($5c81), a		 ; f4ce 32 81 5c $0dts
	ret			 ; f4d1 c9 $0at

    So this routine is expecting an Issue 1 ROM to generate a checksum of $272a, and an Issue 2 ROM to generate a checksum of $7f7a.
    These checksums are never going to be generated under emulation, and that's all down to the way in which the emulator handles IF1 support :(

    Here's a quick and simple patch for the main editor code, hopefully in a similar fashion to that of Phil Churchyard's code.
    Instead of generating a checksum, we find out where the IF1 hook code table resides. On an Issue 1 ROM it's at $1981, and an Issue 2 ROM at $1e71.
    org $f4a3
;
patch:	ld de, ($00ec)		 ; f4a3 ed 5b ed 00 $14ts
	nop			 ; f4a7 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4a8 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4a9 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4aa 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4ab 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4ac 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4ad 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4ae 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4af 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4b0 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4b1 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4b2 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4b3 00 $04ts
	nop			 ; f4b4 00 $04ts
	xor a			 ; f4b5 af $04ts
	ld ($5c81), a		 ; f4b6 32 81 5c $0dts
rom1:	ld hl, $1981		 ; f4b9 21 81 19 $0ats
	sbc hl, de		 ; f4bc ed 52 $0fts
	jr nz, rom2		 ; f4be 20 05 $07/$0cts
	ld a, $01		 ; f4c0 3e 01 $07ts
	ld ($5c81), a		 ; f4c2 32 81 5c $0dts
rom2:	ld hl, $1e71		 ; f4c5 21 71 1e $0ats
	and a			 ; f4c8 a7 $04ts
	sbc hl, de		 ; f4c9 ed 52 $0fts
	ret nz			 ; f4cb c0 $05/$0bts
	ld a, $02		 ; f4cc 3e 02 $07ts
	ld ($5c81), a		 ; f4ce 32 81 5c $0dts
	ret			 ; f4d1 c9 $0at

    So, I've tested this patch with Spectaculator and all seems good.
    It doesn't work very well with Spin - and I'm really sorry to say it but I think that's down to the IF1 emulation.
    This patch should also work with real hardware, but what would be the point? ;)

    Oddly enough, the sweevorom listing is there to discourage you from using an Issue 1 ROM.
    That seems a bit daft as both the sweevosave and editor code *do* cater for both Issue 1 and Issue 2 ROMS... weird.

    Anyway, you can grab a working MDR image with the editor already patched here

    Run the editor with:
    LOAD *"m";1;"Edit"

    And play your edited game with:
    LOAD *"m";1;"Sweevo"
    jp nz | TZXs updated with new loading screens | youtube bits and bobs
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