Who want to remake Double Dragon?

edited June 2007 in Games
Seeing as the Speccy version was crap (see my review: http://www.gamestyle.net/retro.php?article=31 )

I was wondering if any coders with some spare time fancied trying to re do it on the Speccy?
Post edited by Swainy on
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Comments

  • edited June 2003
    yes, I think the same. someone must to make justice to this game.
  • edited June 2003
    It's doable, as Target Renegade proves, but it would take real skill to pull it off.
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  • edited June 2003
    Well I'm happy to do the graphics. I think it work better with a flick screen method rather than scrolling.

    Now then, what happened to the preview version seen in this link?: ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/magazines/Crash/Issue56/Pages/Crash5600118.jpg

    Compared to the released version, it looks better:

    http://www.classicgaming.com/doubledragon/ddspec3.gif

    [ This Message was edited by: Swainy on 2003-06-07 00:25 ]
  • edited June 2003
    A beat-em-up? I've never written one, but wouldn't mind having a crack at this once More Tea Vicar is finished - not that I could ever compete with the legendary Mike Lamb of course, but Double Dragon was such a shocking conversion I think my grandmother could have done better.

    I'm off to Greece for 2 weeks now but should have a little more time on my hands when I come back 'cos I've just been made redundant.
    No longer part of the Spectrum scene but still supporting Multi-Platform Arcade Game Designer. I am NOT on Twitter.
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  • edited June 2003
    Thats great if you want to give it a go. Let me know if you want some to help out with the graphics if you do take this project up.
  • edited June 2003
    Ok, here's what the main charcter could look like: http://www.gamestyle.net/rimages/ddsprite1.gif
  • edited June 2003
    On 2003-06-07 00:16, Swainy wrote:
    Now then, what happened to the preview version seen in this link?: ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/magazines/Crash/Issue56/Pages/Crash5600118.jpg
    Compared to the released version, it looks better:
    http://www.classicgaming.com/doubledragon/ddspec3.gif
    n 2003-06-07 00:25 ]</font>

    Uh, they're the same graphics there...

    D.
  • edited June 2003
    On 2003-06-07 22:19, Dunny wrote:
    On 2003-06-07 00:16, Swainy wrote:
    Now then, what happened to the preview version seen in this link?: ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/magazines/Crash/Issue56/Pages/Crash5600118.jpg
    Compared to the released version, it looks better:
    http://www.classicgaming.com/doubledragon/ddspec3.gif
    n 2003-06-07 00:25 ]</font>

    Uh, they're the same graphics there...

    D.

    Um, no they are not. Take a closer look at the characters & the door to the left. Also not that in the smaller screen on the page from Crash Magazine shows a cat on a bin. The cat & bin did not appear on the Spectrum version that was released.
  • edited June 2003
    On 2003-06-07 22:38, Swainy wrote:
    Um, no they are not. Take a closer look at the characters & the door to the left. Also not that in the smaller screen on the page from Crash Magazine shows a cat on a bin. The cat & bin did not appear on the Spectrum version that was released.

    Ahh, my mistake - I thought you were comparing the picture you posted with the corresponding crash screen shot, not the one that bears almost no relation to the emulated screenshot.

    :p

    D.
  • edited June 2003
    Brilliant sprite.
    I would love to help work on the graphics. I think we should aim for a monochrome game though....

    Let me know what to design as a start
    As a young boy chasing dragons with my wooden sword so mighty
  • edited June 2003
    It would be nice to see a bit of colour on the walls etc. Target Renegade had some and even though it clashed, it didn't do any real harm. Besides, I like a bit of clash in games. ;)
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  • edited June 2003
    On 2003-06-09 23:09, Spector wrote:
    Besides, I like a bit of clash in games. ;)

    me too =D

    could be 8*8 scroll likes in Rick Dangerous. If no, if would be a smooth scroll then I guess sprites must to be smaller due memory and speed matters.
  • edited June 2003
    id prefer that rather than clashing it were in color paper 0 and ink in color to draw the graphic and let the graphics super impose on the backgrounds aand at least a semi smooth scroll, or maybe you walk along and the screen stops at certain points and you have to beat up some baddies, then wehn al their butts are kicked you get that arrow saying "go!->" and you walk about some more and then again the screen stops scrolling after a bit of walking and mroe walk on the screen and you beat up some more etc.

    anyway the more the merrier however you go about it, Terra Cresta would be nice to redo too, and maybe viglante. though i would like to see games that didnt come out for spectrum done for spectrum whether they're older games or current games adapted for spectrum and be done as good as possible within the limitations, personally i'd like Mayhem in monsterland, i have a coupl escreens i did for that ( and another game too but i figure i ought to leave something for surprise. you wouldnt think its a spectrum screen thats all im saying ) but ive been beating around the bush updating my site im too tired all the time its going slow+ the site is getting a facelft. if some fo you want to see one of the examples though ill upload it and link to it. its regular graphics with the characetr doen in multicolor but that might not be possible (?), but it could still be done with the chaarcter in regular graphics. after Sid Spider i might be too tired even if someone were to volunteer to code, but one never knows.

    yea that sprite, i like the animation job! :) good job there whoever did it, sorry i didntcatch the username. and im feeling too lethargic to go back and check, but nice animation there. thumbs up.




  • edited June 2003
    Great guys, I'm glad you like the sprite. It's the first time I've ever done anything like this. All I done was took shots from the arcade version via MAME and re drew them.

    Sadly I can't code anything to save my life, but if people are really willing to give this project a go then I'm up for it. I doubt if I would be any good at backgrounds though.
  • edited June 2003
    maybe you could use the same backgrounds? unless you want to remake it almost entirely.

    just a couple suggestions. with your arcade graphic rips you fixed up you might want to round the drawings out more, i mean fix up parts that have sharp blocks and round them off so they dont look so blocky, if thats the case, i know that your example is enlarged :) . if youre gonna add color remember only 2 colors in a 8*8 area of pixels. im sure you know that already but since you said you never really done this before i thought id mention it cause you could forget, i try to always remember and still f up sometimes. again if you do add color you should place your graphics on a 8*8 grid it'll help. position it so you can get as much of the characters extremities into individual 8*8 blocks, even altering the graphics to suit the 8*8 blocks it falls onto so that you can give each section its own or optimal color for the best use of colour.

    when youve got one or two done let us see them :)

    [ This Message was edited by: Amigo on 2003-06-12 08:27 ]
  • edited June 2003
    those backgrounds seem like alot of work but i hope someone will like this project enough to take on the the job of doing the backgrounds. It could be fun! :) also, rather than doing entire screens maybe doing tiles might be a better way to go?

    i wouldnt mind getting involved but im too busy at the moment, also i prefer to do originals, sometimes i would like to do remakes, but of those that did not appear on Spectrum, with some exceptions, like Terra Cresta, which i think could have been better, Mayhem in MonsterLand ( C64 ) ( 239 kb - please be patient ), and maybe a couple others.

    I wouldn't mind doing a loading screen for it though "if" this project happens and sems to be taken seriously, I always love to do those :)

    i do get happy when i see projects come to fruition or even interest and talking about it so i like this thread. these are my favorite topics when people announce doing or suggesting a game or some program for Spectrum.

    I'm still waiting for Eddy Duffy to resume work on Abadia del Crimen Translation, which I think was almost practically done but he lost his job and the project is stifled, but only temporarily i hope. I have already done a Test Screen of what it may be like in Colour ( although it was just for a test and may not be in colour - again too much work considering i had other things goign first but it would be great though ), loading screen, dedication screen, my Dizzy TTFont ( it uses the "Dizzy" font like many games do ) and extra characters for it he needed for the parchment. I haven't heard from him in a long time I really hope he's okay. I hope it comes out this year for the game's anniversary. Plus I'm doing Sid Spider, proably not as much as I should ( I'm a lethargic bastard ), and preparing for a C64 version and/or other versions and possibly a couple other original games on Spectrum, probably fro Cronosoft, so I havent't the time.

    i wish all the best for you with this and to those who ( hopefully ) will get involved. I still hope to see Castlevania ZX and some other projects that have been talked about for a while but seem to be abandoned or at a stand still. Hopefully Double Dragon remake will not fall into oblivion like some of those.

    I hope interest in Double Dragon is not waning. Maybe more people could discuss what they would like to see in the remake? I hope motivation and interest isn't lost, which often happens, and i'm guilty of that also. Still i think every contribution however small is note-and-praiseworthy, and that the many good ideas people on this forum can offer will motivate themselves and/or other people with the skills to carry it out and make it happen.

    It would be nice to read about what things, even to the most minute detail, those who are all for this would like to see in the remake, lest another idea for a project become just another thing that was exciting at first then people stopped caring. I hope people who have the skill and would like to do something on Speccy and have the time will take this project on and have fun with it. But if it can't happen just yet but maybe later this year or whenever that's fine i guess. But hopefully would happen.

    i might find the time to do one screen of a Double Dragon background just so maybe it will spark interest in somebody to do the backgrounds. If not you could alwys use BMP2SCR to convert backgrounds and then fix them up in the built in editor or Art Studio or whatever is your prefernce - you'd have to crop those backgrounds to 256 pixels in length and either resample the height to 192 or paste them in a blank image at 256*192 and leave the difference for space to display lives, score, etc. You still need a coder/s though ( i assume ) and music, but you can probably rip those from the game. personally i dont think its worth rewriting the tunes. i think a utility just came out to play AY files on a Spectrum, I imagine it would be in TAP format so i dont see why the original game music couldnt be used after converting the AY file to TAP, then again i dont know much about this new utility ... but I would think the Double Dragon music is already ripped it should be in the archives or the AY Project site. Other than that I don't know how one would convert an AY file back to a TAP to play on Spectrum.

    Another option would be to hack the game and change things, but that might be harder than doing it over (?)

    If i can afford the time I'll do a background, to hopefully spark some ore interest, I choose from your links and post it here when it's done.

    Good Luck! :)
  • edited June 2003
    Right, I've been checking out other versions of Double Dragon, just to see how they were handled. Anyway, I've found out something rather interesting... Their were two Amstrad versions made. One version was a port of the Spectrum game:

    http://www.classicgaming.com/doubledragon/mystery5.gif

    Whilst the other was a lot more faithfull to the coin op & uses the same backgrounds as the Amiga version.

    http://www.classicgaming.com/doubledragon/mystery8.gif

    Now then, would it be possible to use any code or somehow use the background graphics from the Amstrad version?


    For more details on the two different Amstrad versions, goto:

    http://www.classicgaming.com/doubledragon/amstradmystery.htm

    [ This Message was edited by: Swainy on 2003-06-14 10:54 ]
  • edited June 2003
    nope, the low res version is not possible on the spectrum and the other, the graphics seem pretty close if not the same as the spectrum, except that it has more color.

    anyway dont fret, you can get some great graphics on the spectrum. you just need to know how.

    yea theres ifli or rainbow modes or whatever you want to call it, which are too too blocky and they are too cpu intensive for a game i think, at least a complicated one, unles some genius coder could manage it, or you used an expanded spectrum but relatively no one has anything like that, like a spectrum with 2 z80s or whatever. maybe on a Timex (?) i dont know.

    theres multicolor, and ive heard of games in multicolor but dont know if its true, though if so id love to see them, but may also be to much for the cpu if too much is going on the screen at one given time and could probably only work on a static screen like a puzzle game like sid spider/boulderdash/sokoban etc. or a non scrolling adventure/platform game ( Eghead/Dizzy/etc. ) but alot of the graphics would have to be the normal type or it proably couldnt handle it either.

    theres always interlace, i heard from Yerz ( H/P) that there is a game done in gigascreen and that looks spectacular but ive never seen it myself and he never sent me it i think he forgot what it was, ( if anyone has something like this please let me know id really love to see it please! thanks! ) and it was probably some short game, as i said alternate graphic modes for action games in particular would be too much for the cpu.

    even if it is possible i dont think anyone would want to take that one ( i could be wrong though ) at least not unless they were attempting an original game.

    so no to use the low res version would be going worse since the spectrum doesnt have the palette for it and it cant display ( at last no ones been able to yet ) at 2*1 pixels, the most thats been done has been 4*2 and the first full screen pic in 4*2 mode was done by gasman of H/p - demotopia after he saw my pics and tried to see if it was possible, he could not do it but managed 4*2. i have some pics in 4*2 he transfered fr ome afterwards, so does Yerz, we were the first ones. and to use the other, theres no point i think, graphics are similar like i said there would be no change, plus you dont have the color to make it look that good, also the resolution is higher so youd still have to adjust it.

    someone please correct me if im wrong.
  • edited June 2003
    I know about the colour limitations on the Spectrum, after all I did own one for years. What I meant was, could we use convert the better Amstrad version down to monochrome?
  • edited June 2003
    have the palette for it and it cant display ( at last no ones been able to yet ) at 2*1

    It's never going to be possible without at least quadrupling the clock speed of the Z80 in the Spectrum.
  • edited June 2003
    On 2003-06-14 12:10, cyborg wrote:
    have the palette for it and it cant display ( at last no ones been able to yet ) at 2*1

    It's never going to be possible without at least quadrupling the clock speed of the Z80 in the Spectrum.

    Ok, so we need to re draw the backgrounds. I'm going to continue with the sprites, I'll email jonathan once he is back from his holiday and if he still wants to code this, we must decide what kind of scrolling this game should use. Flick screen as seen in Target: Renegade or normal scrolling seen in the original version of DD. If we use a flick screen system, then I think we should use some colour in the backgrounds. However, if it scrolls then I think that would look better if it were monochrome.

    [ This Message was edited by: Swainy on 2003-06-14 12:23 ]
  • edited June 2003
    Flick screen would be best, in my opinion. It doesn't affect the gameplay, as Target Renegade showed, and it is less processor intensive, leaving you more options elsewhere.
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  • edited June 2003
    Flick screen would be best, in my opinion. It doesn't affect the gameplay, as Target Renegade showed while obviously being less processor intensive, leaving you more options elsewhere.
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  • edited June 2003
    Hi there.

    I've only just met Swainy recently when he showed up on the Double Dragon Dojo and being a big fan of both DD and the Spectrum, I'm glad to see people taking such an interest in a 16 year old game. Especially when the Speccy mags never really appreciated how good the original was (I'm talking about the coin op now).

    The flick screen method is a great idea for the simple reason that I think the original Speccy DD is largely ruined by horrible jerky scrolling (and the speed of which not being in sync with the characters). I've noticed that most missions (stages) would probably end up being around 5 screens long.

    Anyway, could talk all night about this one. I love the idea of remaking games for the Spectrum (or making brand new games / conversions! Anyone gonna do Doom or what? ;)).

    Good luck anyway, guys, I'm rootin' for y'all! (Meanwhile, I'm trying to convince a buddy to remake Target Renegade for the PC!!!)

    -P Ste H
  • edited June 2003
    alright. here it is, did a little bit yesterday and finished off the rest today just now. first link is the one its based on ( i modified it to my liking though, i wanted to get the jaw door and dragon holding the ball in th same screen ) and the second link is the spectrum version i did.

    bye.

    Original

    Spectrum


    --- uh oh im at the 400 mark almost! just noticed! :o id better make it a good one! one of my big long ramblings! ... i gotta save my 400th post for something REALLY special ... ( im sure most people here know what im talking about - just ask badbeard or somebody ... then RUN for cover cause here i come!!! )

    ... BRACE YOURSELVES WOS DWELLERS! I'm salivating already!!! mua-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaaa!!!! :evil: PREPARE TO BE DRIVEN I-N-S-A-N-E!


    IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING POST. THANKS. ITS OKAY I GUESS. FUN TO DO ... BEST WISHES WITH THAT!

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    [ This Message was edited by: Amigo on 2003-06-15 11:00 ]
  • edited June 2003
    Amigo that is superb!!!
  • edited June 2003
    If a Double Dragon game was made with backgrounds like that... well, I think it would deserve an Oscar nomination at least :)

    No double post this time either - I'm getting better!

    [ This Message was edited by: Spector on 2003-06-15 16:11 ]

    [ This Message was edited by: Spector on 2003-06-15 16:11 ]
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  • edited June 2003
    Your too modest! That screen shot is great.
  • edited June 2003
    Superb screenshot! Not lightyears ahead of the original Speccy port IMO (the background was about the only really decent thing about it), BUT I love the detail in little things such as the Japanese text! Not sure I like the amount of red but it's still really, really good. Kinda reminds me of a Dizzy background in fact (a GOOD Dizzy background ;)). If you look at Binary's efforts on the final mission, the blocks look to be drawn by a five year old! (Shots here - http://www.classicgaming.com/doubledragon/rddspec.htm - I know, I know, I WAS too nice in my review... It was a while ago okay?! :D)

    Compare the two and you can see how Binary used far too much yellow (too many Spectrum games did! Don't even mention Pac Land! *Shudder*)

    That is a nice shot though. Kinda how I expected the game to come out if the Renegade boys got their hands on it! (Which they should have... Anyone fancy building a time machine? :))

    -P Ste H
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