Mire Mare

edited April 2010 in Games
I've mentioned on these boards a few times that I had an old friend who was rumoured to have joined Rare in the early 90's but I've never been able to get in touch with him. That is until a couple of days ago when I found him on bookface and as you can imagine one of the first things I asked him was if he had ever spoken to anyone about the elusive Mire Mare. Well, I'll leave him to do the talking:

"Regarding Mire Mare, there is a conversation with Tim (Stamper) which I had shortly after joining Rare, which may answer your question. Tim was the artist and joint owner of Ultimate, and we were talking about "projects that never made it", and Mire Mare came up. Basically, the title screen/advert was done (I am sure it was advertised in Crash at some point), but in terms of the actual game, it never got past a few ideas on paper. I "believe" this was because the Stamper brothers were in talks with US Gold around that time, who they eventually sold the Ultimate *brand* to. After that, US Gold churned out the substandard "Bubbler" and "Martionoids", before shelving the brand. The actual staff of Ultimate were kept on by the Stampers and became the first members of Rare, so none of the actual talent went to US Gold."

So it appears there is no code stored in Rare's/Ultimate's safes that may magically appear one day, sadly. He also mentions a conversation he had with Tim and Chris Stamper about the Lunar Jetman trailer (which I believed to have been solved) but he didn't go any further. When I get it out of him, I'll post it up!
Post edited by Vampyre on
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Comments

  • edited December 2009
    Cheers for that, interesting to read. I think some of us Speccy fanatics will keep holding onto that myth that there is a demo somewhere though ;)

    I always liked the mocked up graphic in Andrew Rollings book of what it 'might' have looked like.
  • edited December 2009
    Demo? Yes!!! ;)

  • edited December 2009
    Acording to Infoseek:

    Stuart Campbell in his article The Games Time Forgot, in the last ever issue of Your Sinclair, comments that the game probably never got past the stage of being a title and this seems to be the general opinion of the game's status.
    However, the Ultimate Appreciation website has an interview with an ex-employee of Ultimate who confirms that the game did in fact exist. He says "code for this [Mire Mare] exists" and "It does exist. I have seen it. I have played it".The story apparently is that Mire Mare was coded before Gunfright. Chris and Tim Stamper were planning to sell out to US Gold and wanted to keep Mire Mare back as a Grand Finale so Gunfright was released first.
    However, the sell out was completed more quickly than first thought. US Gold wanted to put Ultimate's back catalogue of games out on their budget label, Kixx and approached Chris and Tim Stamper asking where Mire Mare was as they wanted to put it out on the Kixx label as well. The Stampers weren't impressed with US Gold and told them Mire Mare wasn't ready ("although basically it was").


    Confusing...
  • edited December 2009
    Confusing...

    Agreed. However I'm inclined to believe the version from my old pal. He was never the bull-type and being as he is no longer part of Rare (left in March 09) he would really have no reason to tell me fibs :-)

    Like others though, I still cling onto the ever fainter hope of there being some code out there :-)
  • edited December 2009
    Maybe they did some unfinished code they couldn't even call it a game, maybe some works on paper: diagrams, maps, character sketches, storyboards...

    However, if so, it would be very interesting to see these works!
  • edited December 2009
    Yeah just a scribble on a pad showing what the game 'might' have looked like would be good.

    I thought ages ago someone was going to create a version of Willy meets the Taxman ? RG bought a ton of disks from ebay from Stuart Fotherington (think thats his name) and it showed ideas about the new game
  • edited December 2009
    psj3809 wrote: »
    Yeah just a scribble on a pad showing what the game 'might' have looked like would be good.

    I thought ages ago someone was going to create a version of Willy meets the Taxman ? RG bought a ton of disks from ebay from Stuart Fotherington (think thats his name) and it showed ideas about the new game

    Those were the Megatree disks, not Taxman...
  • edited December 2009
    It was never advertised in Crash though or anywhere else/
  • edited December 2009
    merman wrote: »
    Those were the Megatree disks, not Taxman...

    Duh ! Yeah sorry, getting my Matthew Smith games mixed up !
  • fogfog
    edited December 2009
    there is info about it *long pause*..errm *permission denied*

    sorry , had to do that.. I mean it's not like speccy owners bought ultimate games and made them some money.. and now it's ?40+ for some games on a certain site... thanks stampers...

    IP or not, allowing the speccy version or a slightly modified one mentioning about IP to be distributred is hardly gonna damage "their" sales. same with the darlings...

    sure your gonna remake xyz advanced simulator ?!?!? can't see it myself.


    that has tainted my view of these companies a bit.. they forgot their roots and people who bought their original products.
  • edited December 2009
    Acording to Infoseek:

    Stuart Campbell in his article The Games Time Forgot, in the last ever issue of Your Sinclair, comments that the game probably never got past the stage of being a title and this seems to be the general opinion of the game's status.
    However, the Ultimate Appreciation website has an interview with an ex-employee of Ultimate who confirms that the game did in fact exist. He says "code for this [Mire Mare] exists" and "It does exist. I have seen it. I have played it".The story apparently is that Mire Mare was coded before Gunfright. Chris and Tim Stamper were planning to sell out to US Gold and wanted to keep Mire Mare back as a Grand Finale so Gunfright was released first.
    However, the sell out was completed more quickly than first thought. US Gold wanted to put Ultimate's back catalogue of games out on their budget label, Kixx and approached Chris and Tim Stamper asking where Mire Mare was as they wanted to put it out on the Kixx label as well. The Stampers weren't impressed with US Gold and told them Mire Mare wasn't ready ("although basically it was").


    Confusing...
    I've read that interview on the Ultimate Wurlde site. There's also an interview with the same guy in ZX Shed (can't remember which issue), where he repeats much of the same stuff. I've actually spoken to him myself and he offers no expansion, no extra detail, which makes me suspect him. In one of the interviews he says he had some kind of marketing role at Ultimate, yet I asked a long-term Ultimate employee who was there since the beginning and he says there was never anyone employeed in a marketing capacity.

    All this leads me to think that this bloke is spinning a yarn, and Mire Mare didn't progress beyond simple sketches.
  • edited December 2009
    MartynC wrote: »
    I've read that interview on the Ultimate Wurlde site. There's also an interview with the same guy in ZX Shed (can't remember which issue), where he repeats much of the same stuff. I've actually spoken to him myself and he offers no expansion, no extra detail, which makes me suspect him. In one of the interviews he says he had some kind of marketing role at Ultimate, yet I asked a long-term Ultimate employee who was there since the beginning and he says there was never anyone employeed in a marketing capacity.

    All this leads me to think that this bloke is spinning a yarn, and Mire Mare didn't progress beyond simple sketches.

    As I said I'm inclined to believe the version given by my friend beyond anything else I've read on the net. Other than the Stamper brothers coming out and actually telling us something different I'm going to take his word as gospel.
  • edited December 2009
    It was never advertised in Crash though or anywhere else/

    Well, apart from in the end message given when you completed Under Wurlde. :)

    So where did the box artwork appear then? Or is that a total fake?
  • edited December 2009
    frobush wrote: »
    Well, apart from in the end message given when you completed Under Wurlde. :)

    So where did the box artwork appear then? Or is that a total fake?
    The art is the real deal. It was drawn by Tim Stamper and was scanned in and uploaded to the official Rare website (for the history section). The story behind it is here.
  • edited December 2009
    MartynC wrote: »
    The art is the real deal. It was drawn by Tim Stamper and was scanned in and uploaded to the official Rare website (for the history section). The story behind it is here.

    Cheers!
  • edited December 2009
    Acording to Infoseek:

    Stuart Campbell in his article The Games Time Forgot, in the last ever issue of Your Sinclair, comments that the game probably never got past the stage of being a title and this seems to be the general opinion of the game's status.
    However, the Ultimate Appreciation website has an interview with an ex-employee of Ultimate who confirms that the game did in fact exist. He says "code for this [Mire Mare] exists" and "It does exist. I have seen it. I have played it".The story apparently is that Mire Mare was coded before Gunfright. Chris and Tim Stamper were planning to sell out to US Gold and wanted to keep Mire Mare back as a Grand Finale so Gunfright was released first.
    However, the sell out was completed more quickly than first thought. US Gold wanted to put Ultimate's back catalogue of games out on their budget label, Kixx and approached Chris and Tim Stamper asking where Mire Mare was as they wanted to put it out on the Kixx label as well. The Stampers weren't impressed with US Gold and told them Mire Mare wasn't ready ("although basically it was").


    Confusing...

    I find it very hard to believe that US Gold would want to just release Mire Mare on the Kixx label. That sounds stupid to me. I'm sure they would have released it on full price. So that makes the story sound a bit wacky to me :)
  • edited December 2009
    Vampyre wrote: »
    but in terms of the actual game, it never got past a few ideas on paper...

    oh, those would be precious ideas to hear for the folks of MC programming abilities, drawing skills and creative spirit.... I hope.

    I can imagine WoS dudes catching and hooking up to that :D

    but at least, andrew rollings's knock-art for the in game-screen was absolutely impressive for me,
    it has adequate spirit for the game. would love to see it function also in such fantasied version.
    G! - That makes sense in BASIC 0:1
  • zx1zx1
    edited December 2009
    To be honest, if there was a demo/screenshots etc they would have appeared by now, after all it is over 20 years ago! I think we may resign ourselves that there is no code and simply dosen't exist sob!
    We must perform a quirkafleeg
  • edited December 2009
    If I remember correctly, Andrew Rollings was trying to investigate further regarding all about Mire Mare with direct interview with Stamper brothers...any news on that?
  • edited December 2009
    zx1 wrote: »
    To be honest, if there was a demo/screenshots etc they would have appeared by now

    Not necessarily so. A few games have popped up in the last few years which were never released all those years back.
  • edited December 2009
    ZnorXman wrote: »
    Not necessarily so. A few games have popped up in the last few years which were never released all those years back.

    That's right. For example, Death Pit by Durell.
  • edited December 2009
    Uros Zupan wrote: »
    If I remember correctly, Andrew Rollings was trying to investigate further regarding all about Mire Mare with direct interview with Stamper brothers...any news on that?

    Ah, yes ... good point!

    AndyR, news?
  • edited December 2009
    solar jetman got fully completed as well according to the pickford's website so would be nice for that to be "leaked" but not much chance i dont reckon... maybe ultimate / rare couldnt find a publisher!!!!! hahaha
  • edited December 2009
    Am I the only one to hope that the game DOESNT ever crop up at some point in the future? Judging by the majority of many of Ultimate's later games , it probably wouldnt actually be that great , and anyway it would never live up to the expectation most have built up.

    One of those games - like Bandersnatch - that's best left to the imagination.
  • edited December 2009
    One of those games - like Bandersnatch - that's best left to the imagination.

    Definetly would be best left to the imagination, if it wasn't actually released and was utter crap... the new name was Bratacass :(

    http://hol.abime.net/199
  • edited January 2010
    Will Mire Mare EVER see the light of day? And if it doesn't exist, then an alternative could be for one to program a modern-day version showing what could have been :)
  • edited January 2010
    I think that's a good idea. Someone make one in the style of classic Ultimate, play test it with us lot on here, we could say 'THAT graphic doesn't look very Ultimate' and get it changed until it's a complete game, a fake Ultimate game.

    We already know what the loading screen will look like!
  • edited January 2010
    I wonder what rules there would be regarding 'intellectual property' in a case like this?

    I imagine someone who did this might be hearing from someone's lawyers... ;-)
  • edited January 2010
    It's only a title they are borrowing. Plus, once it's done and out there that's it then, as long as it's not sold.
  • edited January 2010
    It's only a title they are borrowing. Plus, once it's done and out there that's it then, as long as it's not sold.

    *cough* Richard *cough* Jordan's *cough* Fairlight *cough* remake *cough* (Ricola? -Ed)
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