ZX Poly - wow!

edited February 2011 in Hardware
Hi Folks,

Came across the following:

http://www.igormaznitsa.com/zxpoly/zxpoly.html

Has anyone else seen this before? I am no hardware person but the results look amazing.

Paddy
Post edited by Paddy Coleman on

Comments

  • edited February 2011
    very interesting, but I was hoping for some real hardware. this is all in java emulator?
  • edited February 2011
    There is a long thread about it at zx.pk.ru. It is interesting, but emulator only at the moment.
  • edited February 2011
    What an impractical monster, especially in these times
  • edited February 2011
    Alarm wrote: »
    There is a long thread about it at zx.pk.ru. It is interesting, but emulator only at the moment.

    And will ever be emulator only, unless someone starts making a 64-bit Z80.
  • edited February 2011
    And will ever be emulator only, unless someone starts making a 64-bit Z80.
    The author thinks that four 8-bit Z80s = one 32-bit Z80808080 :D
  • edited February 2011
    And will ever be emulator only, unless someone starts making a 64-bit Z80.

    The author seems to think it's possible with four regular Z80s, and specifically says "the platform does not have any fantastic smart hardware controllers or a transcendent CPU chips (with 64 bit registers as I saw in some developments)". Do you have particular reason to believe his approach won't work, or are you perhaps confusing it with the earlier Spec256 system (which does indeed require a hypothetical 64-bit Z80, and is presumably what ZX-Poly is a response to)?

    I'm not enough of a hardware guy to know, but synchronising four Z80s sounds like the sort of thing that's simple enough in theory but unspeakably hairy to do in practice...

    (Either way, based on past experience with projects of this scale, I'll reserve my excitement until there's an actual hardware prototype.)
  • edited February 2011
    ZX POLY is bad "hardware". Better is any other ZX clone with coloc pixel graphic mode. For example russian ZX clones:

    ZX-EVO (Pent-EVO) use graphic mode with color pixels (no attributes):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuBTQKdnNow
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ9aLgbkodw

    ATM TURBO 2+ use graphic mode with color pixels (no attributes) and color palette (64 colors)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9idep79SdU

    But best is SAM COUPE graphis mode (255x192/16 colors per pixel - palette 128 colors for each of 16 used colors):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DfDEU_Ifrw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ6GaETicQI

    All this computers need faster CPU (about 6-7MHz or more).

    Soon will possible on ZX clones (or ZX Spectrum models) connect russian external graphic card with support SAM COUPE graphic mode...
    http://micklab.narod.ru/ZXMVideoCard.htm
  • edited February 2011
    gasman wrote: »
    Do you have particular reason to believe his approach won't work, or are you perhaps confusing it with the earlier Spec256 system (which does indeed require a hypothetical 64-bit Z80, and is presumably what ZX-Poly is a response to)?

    The latter :-)
  • edited February 2011
    velesoft wrote: »
    ZX POLY is bad "hardware". Better is any other ZX clone with coloc pixel graphic mode. For example russian ZX clones:

    Hi Velesoft,

    I am not doubting you but why is it bad hardware? The concept looks sound enough. Are you objections one of cost, complexity of what?

    Paddy
  • edited February 2011
    velesoft wrote: »
    Soon will possible on ZX clones (or ZX Spectrum models) connect russian external graphic card with support SAM COUPE graphic mode...
    http://micklab.narod.ru/ZXMVideoCard.htm

    now that would be cool.
    but sam coupe has faster cpu, so that card wouldn't allow ZX run its games?
  • edited February 2011
    Hi Velesoft,

    I am not doubting you but why is it bad hardware? The concept looks sound enough. Are you objections one of cost, complexity of what?

    Paddy

    1) Too hard for implement to real hardware
    2) very hard create software for it
    3) bad idea

    We can on real existing ZX clones use better graphic and faster CPU (better is fast cpu than 4x slow cpu...). ZX POLY is only "project", similar as "ZX256 colors"...

    All this "projects" is designed for modify (recolour) existing software.
  • edited February 2011
    orange wrote: »
    now that would be cool.
    but sam coupe has faster cpu, so that card wouldn't allow ZX run its games?

    SAM COUPE use different memory size and memory paging, then is impossible on ZX models use SAM's software/games. Only will possible switch between more graphic modes - zx original mode, sam coupe graphic mode, etc...

    SAM COUPE mode 4 (color pixels) use linear structure of screen data. Each pixel use 4bits = 2 color pixels per one byte. This will fast for programming and easy for import graphic from SAM COUPE to ZX. Color palette can be used in ZX mode = is possible recolour any existing ZX games similar as in my SNAPER utility for SAM COUPE:
    http://velesoft.speccy.cz/sam_zx128.htm
    extreme-sam.png
  • edited February 2011
    velesoft wrote: »
    Soon will possible on ZX clones (or ZX Spectrum models) connect russian external graphic card with support SAM COUPE graphic mode...
    http://micklab.narod.ru/ZXMVideoCard.htm

    I can see there the NemoBus.
    Do you intend to make any ZX-bus interface for it?
    ZX Spectrum 48K BEEPER Music:
    http://mister_beep.republika.pl/
  • edited February 2011
    Rather than all that, redesign the good old ULA... add new video mode, video ram, colors, sprites, scrolling... here we go
  • edited February 2011
    And once again, you have a piece of kit with absolutely no software for it.
  • edited February 2011
    okay, here's a thought right.

    what you do is, take an amiga and a craft knife. carve off all the logos, and write sinclair on it in red felt tip!
    voila! a super spectrum with hi res colour graphics, sprites, and best of all loads of software that works on it! seemples!






    ;)
  • edited February 2011
    @guesser
    that's not funny..
    A1200 had AGA, are you saying they should've sticked with ECS?
  • edited February 2011
    orange wrote: »
    A1200 had AGA, are you saying they should've sticked with ECS?

    Er, no. He's saying that upgrading a dead computer with a new graphics standard that nobody will use is a waste of time, not "all graphics upgrades that anyone has ever come up with are a waste of time".
  • edited February 2011
    If I connect PC as graphic card to ZX spectrum via ZX bus - is it still Spectrum ? :???:
    I like min-max approach - either we do minimal changes to keep SW compatibility like ULAPlus, or no limits at all !
    Why not to have ZX in Full HD with EAX sound and auto re-mastering system ? That could be nice compo for 30th celebration...

    ZX-Poly is bad example of being somewhere between. This is step back from Spec256.
  • edited February 2011
    I can see there the NemoBus.
    Do you intend to make any ZX-bus interface for it?

    Some russian interfaces with NEMO-BUS can be connect direct to ZX Spectrum. Need connect this connector:
    n_bus.jpg

    But some interfaces need also small hardware patch (on connector).

    ZX-BUS to NEMO-BUS convertor is realisable, later.....I need time for it...
  • edited February 2011
    kpuchatek wrote: »
    ZX-Poly is bad example of being somewhere between. This is step back from Spec256.
    ZX Poly is considerably older than Spec256 - 1994 vs 1999. However, ZX Poly is always was and still is just an idea - the only real thing that was created is software proof-of-concept in form of Java emulator released in 2007.
  • edited February 2011
    gasman wrote: »
    Er, no. He's saying that upgrading a dead computer with a new graphics standard that nobody will use is a waste of time, not "all graphics upgrades that anyone has ever come up with are a waste of time".

    Wasting time with playing 'grand theft auto' is not really that different than with 'arkanoid'.
    besides its a hobby, if only the author of card would use it - that's plenty.
  • edited February 2011
    Hello All
    I'd like to explain objectives of the ZX-Poly platform
    1. to make a platform fully compatible with ZX-Spectrum and its software
    2. the platform must be possible to assemble on chips produced in 80th
    3. the platform must not make a programmer to learn new technologies and architectures
    4. Software from ZX-Spectrum must be easy transferred to the platform with minimal changes

    I think the ZX-Poly platform has make all points, of course I know about very good platforms Spec256 and SAM Coupe but I think these platforms a bit more distant from ZX-Spectrum than ZX-Poly which can be called as a ZX-Spectrum with original links between its elements :)
    <a href="https://poly" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">ZX-Poly project page</a><br><br>
  • edited February 2011
    for getting around the colour restrictions wouldn't a simplified copper-like chip be better than a ton of z80s?

    I'm thinking along the lines of a chip that has it's program reset at the start of every frame and would work its way through a set of line lists:

    Each line list would contain:
    1 byte: amount of lines to skip before following list is used (255 - stop)

    and as many as needed/possible given timing constraints:
    2 bytes: address to write to (15 bits, top bit is end of list)
    1 byte: data to write

    once the last byte is written to the address with the top bit set then it will wait as many lines as dictated by the following line skip and then get to work again.

    This could then potentially just reload attribute blocks on a line-by-line basis giving one colour per line of the attribute, but 8 down (subject to timing constraints).

    I have no idea how it would fit around the contention of the Z80/ULA or how many attributes you could modify per line this way, mind...
  • I have opened sources of ZX-Poly emulator and now it is published on https://github.com/raydac/zxpoly

    <a href="https://poly" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">ZX-Poly project page</a><br><br>
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