I started on mapping HoH this afternoon. It looks like it's going to be pretty complex. I'm only just inside the house, and I'm onto two sheets already. I am trying to make it so that I include number references to all the rooms, and arrows to bubbles that relate to choices between rooms, if you get my gist. I'll try to do some more on monday, if not before. I also reminded myself of the rules, they're simple enough.
Again, great. It's been a while since i've read any FF books, but I remember the numbering system complicated things, particularly as they went to easily 250+, with at least 120-130 being locations (correct me if i'm wrong though, it HAS been a while.) Generic location drawings for the simple ones might be a plan though, to cut down on memory. Even doing this for 128k might have to be an option (although FoD was 48k, so, hmmm, perhaps not, depending on how we go with this...)
As i've said, i'll get some graphics done in the week, and then it might be a plan to start a "House of Hell" thread in "New Game Ideas".
Most of the ordinary books (non sorcery!) were 400 entries. HoH is 400, a few others vary slightly. Pretty sure FoD is 400 too. I think I recall Crown of Kings being 800! That book was in a completely different league, and would be a nightmare to map.
If someone gives me a specification then I can write the program; it fits in with the work I'm doing on gamebook utilities anyway. Well, as I've pointed out, I already have the Blade! specification, but for now I was thinking of something more on the lines of a poniard than a 2-handed battle axe, as Blade! would only work on a disk-based system.
If someone gives me a specification then I can write the program; it fits in with the work I'm doing on gamebook utilities anyway. Well, as I've pointed out, I already have the Blade! specification, but for now I was thinking of something more on the lines of a poniard than a 2-handed battle axe, as Blade! would only work on a disk-based system.
How do you mean 'specification'? Do you mean what we want the program to do? Sorry if I appear a little, erm, dumb tbh :lol:
Basically all it needs to do is display graphics and text, keep track of a few stats, and deal with combat and multiple choice. If you know roughly how the programming will go perhaps you can give me a clear idea of the level of graphics I can get away with (lots, with lots of detail and colour / or a very minimalist approach with a few different screens and lots of generic ones.)
Hows the mapping going Alien 8 btw? Got the books today, work tomorrow, but when i've finished i'll spend an hour on WmtB then a couple of hours flicking through the book and drawing up some screens/graphics, then upload them to a new thread in 'new game ideas'.
How do you mean 'specification'? Do you mean what we want the program to do?
Well, the screen layout would be a start. The Forest of Doom screen looks OK, or else something like the Adventure Sheet in the book would be another option. House of Hell doesn't seem to have any new features over earlier books, so either would work. What about the text for each location? Someone would have to condense what's in the book to a line or two per location. Colour scheme, character set, input method (text, menus, icons); size, number & type of graphics (player, location, creature, static, animated); minimum target platform (48k/128k), media formats, user feedback (prompts, error messages, status graphics). Just some ideas of things which would need to be decided upon.
As regards the data structures, I'd use the map definition from AGES and those elements from Blade! which were needed for House of Hell, allowing for additional features from that spec to be added for other conversions where needed.
THere are 2 important differences with the House of Hell.
1. You start off with no weapon, so your SKILL score is lower.
2. FEAR Points. You have to roll for maximum FEAR at the start. Then you must avoid being frightened in the game. Events give you FEAR points. If it reaches your maximum, then you're dead.
Otherwise the rules are the same as the Core books, so the same as FoD, for example.
If you want to get the entire book into a Spectrum 48K, remember to prioritise the functional graphics first. I know it's tempting to make lots of pretty piccies but we don't have much memory, and although the code will take ~5-10K, the data will take up most of the rest.
Could always make a cassette version (minimal graphics) as well as a disc version (fancy graphics) though...
Well so far i've done half of the screen; no graphics, just a border and some text at the bottom (too tired last night to do much more i'm afraid!)
Memory permitting maybe 10-12 original screens, with a bunch of generic room screens (corridors, doors denoting exits, furniture, etc.)
Certainly, if this fits onto a tape, a +3 version with more original screens is an option.
Maybe the best thing would be to do the bulk of the game first; text, stats, options, inventory, etc. (well, everything BUT the graphics) and then see what memory is left and tell me the best course of action for the cassette version graphics. After that's done, think about doing a +3 version.
AGES-3, the gamebook solving part of the set, effectively plays the game when it's working out the solution, so gives a good idea of the space needed. AGES handles games with up to 500 locations.
The approximate stats for the as yet unreleased v2.1 with enhanced inventory management are:
display file & other system overheads 7.2k
BASIC + 12.5k
machine code + 1.8k
variables + 17.6k
map / conditions / inventory / stats + 6.9k
======
AGES-3 runtime requirement 46.0k
coding not needed for gameplay - 5.3k
arrays not needed for gameplay - 7.0k
======
estimated gameplay requirement 33.7k
======
free for text & graphics 14.3k
Well so far i've done half of the screen; no graphics, just a border and some text at the bottom (too tired last night to do much more i'm afraid!)
Memory permitting maybe 10-12 original screens, with a bunch of generic room screens (corridors, doors denoting exits, furniture, etc.)
Certainly, if this fits onto a tape, a +3 version with more original screens is an option.
Maybe the best thing would be to do the bulk of the game first; text, stats, options, inventory, etc. (well, everything BUT the graphics) and then see what memory is left and tell me the best course of action for the cassette version graphics. After that's done, think about doing a +3 version.
Great to read it's coming along well Si. A cassette tape 48K version is exciting enough, but a disk based +3 version would be fantastic. So good in fact that it would even jar me into action to get the floppy drive on my +3 sorted out, and maybe get the sound bug fixed at the same time.
I haven't been able to use AGES yet as I no longer have a DivIDE, so have no easy way to get it loaded onto a spectrum, plus most of the time I've had available has been away from a spectrum or a computer I can use as an emulator. I continue mapping it by hand, which is good fun, but a real challenge. Sometimes I wonder if Steve Jackson was working to a map or plan, or if he just made it up as he wrote it. I've managed to get a fair chunk of the upstairs mapped now. I hope to get some more done later today, but if not, definitely tomorrow, and maybe, just maybe, get it finished.... No promises though.
I've sorted out AGES-3 v2.1 to work with Forest of Doom (81 moves), although there's still some small changes I want to make with regards to buying stuff and managing the inventory. Then I may as well try it with House of Hell and see what happens.
Considering the Fear factor in HoH I was wondering about incorporating Skill, Stamina & Luck as well. As AGES was primarily intended for working out a route through the game it currently ignores physical attributes and thus assumes that the player always wins combat, is in the best of health and always lucky. If I did that then I'd just assign them as additional inventory items rather than doing any special programming for them, so it would just be mainly a matter of entering the extra info in the conditions/actions array, just as for all the spells in Citadel of Chaos.
Hello Battle Bunny, would be great to try it on HoH. I think it would be good to include FEAR, SKILL, STAMINA, and LUCK, as well as all the other inventory items. The reason is, that without those the books rather turn into a complicated version of "Choose Your Own Adventure", which had a slightly different target audience, IMO. I'm the first to admit I sometimes used to cheat, but that's by the by. ;)
When it comes to actually writing a program for this, I wonder if it is possible to make it level selectable, ie EASY Mode, makes it like Choose Your Own Adventure, ie you always win a battle etc, or HARD, is playing by the proper Fighting Fantasy Rules.
Anyway today I am on a day off, and I am waiting in for a TIVO to be fitted and have our kitchen tap fixed, so in the meantime, I am going to try to finish mapping HoH by hand. I have got quite far now and need to finish it off, and then go back through to check I've been through every step.
My aim is to capture every single part of the book, draw the map and annotate it with the numbered refernces from the book, which is a fairly time consuming process, but quite good fun. I'd forgotten a fair bit of the book over the years. I think I last read it about 12 years ago.
When I've finished I'll either make a nice Computer drawn version on a PDF, or if I don't have time for that, I'll draw a neat version and scan it in so that whoever may write the programming can see it.
I think this could be a really nice thing when finished.
Well today didn't really go as planned. Errands and housework most of the day, and the new TiVo doesn't work either to top it off.
Anyway, I finally got started with more mapping at about 8.30 tonight! I've done loads. I reckon I'm nearly done, ie more than 3/4 of the way through, but I'm beat. Can't do any more at the moment, I'm too tired. I wore myself out trying to make sense of my scrawl., when trying to update the map.
Comments
That's great, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Again, great. It's been a while since i've read any FF books, but I remember the numbering system complicated things, particularly as they went to easily 250+, with at least 120-130 being locations (correct me if i'm wrong though, it HAS been a while.) Generic location drawings for the simple ones might be a plan though, to cut down on memory. Even doing this for 128k might have to be an option (although FoD was 48k, so, hmmm, perhaps not, depending on how we go with this...)
As i've said, i'll get some graphics done in the week, and then it might be a plan to start a "House of Hell" thread in "New Game Ideas".
If someone gives me a specification then I can write the program; it fits in with the work I'm doing on gamebook utilities anyway. Well, as I've pointed out, I already have the Blade! specification, but for now I was thinking of something more on the lines of a poniard than a 2-handed battle axe, as Blade! would only work on a disk-based system.
How do you mean 'specification'? Do you mean what we want the program to do? Sorry if I appear a little, erm, dumb tbh :lol:
Basically all it needs to do is display graphics and text, keep track of a few stats, and deal with combat and multiple choice. If you know roughly how the programming will go perhaps you can give me a clear idea of the level of graphics I can get away with (lots, with lots of detail and colour / or a very minimalist approach with a few different screens and lots of generic ones.)
Hows the mapping going Alien 8 btw? Got the books today, work tomorrow, but when i've finished i'll spend an hour on WmtB then a couple of hours flicking through the book and drawing up some screens/graphics, then upload them to a new thread in 'new game ideas'.
Well, the screen layout would be a start. The Forest of Doom screen looks OK, or else something like the Adventure Sheet in the book would be another option. House of Hell doesn't seem to have any new features over earlier books, so either would work. What about the text for each location? Someone would have to condense what's in the book to a line or two per location. Colour scheme, character set, input method (text, menus, icons); size, number & type of graphics (player, location, creature, static, animated); minimum target platform (48k/128k), media formats, user feedback (prompts, error messages, status graphics). Just some ideas of things which would need to be decided upon.
As regards the data structures, I'd use the map definition from AGES and those elements from Blade! which were needed for House of Hell, allowing for additional features from that spec to be added for other conversions where needed.
1. You start off with no weapon, so your SKILL score is lower.
2. FEAR Points. You have to roll for maximum FEAR at the start. Then you must avoid being frightened in the game. Events give you FEAR points. If it reaches your maximum, then you're dead.
Otherwise the rules are the same as the Core books, so the same as FoD, for example.
I'll try to get more mapping done today.
Could always make a cassette version (minimal graphics) as well as a disc version (fancy graphics) though...
Memory permitting maybe 10-12 original screens, with a bunch of generic room screens (corridors, doors denoting exits, furniture, etc.)
Certainly, if this fits onto a tape, a +3 version with more original screens is an option.
Maybe the best thing would be to do the bulk of the game first; text, stats, options, inventory, etc. (well, everything BUT the graphics) and then see what memory is left and tell me the best course of action for the cassette version graphics. After that's done, think about doing a +3 version.
The approximate stats for the as yet unreleased v2.1 with enhanced inventory management are:
display file & other system overheads 7.2k BASIC + 12.5k machine code + 1.8k variables + 17.6k map / conditions / inventory / stats + 6.9k ====== AGES-3 runtime requirement 46.0k coding not needed for gameplay - 5.3k arrays not needed for gameplay - 7.0k ====== estimated gameplay requirement 33.7k ====== free for text & graphics 14.3kGreat to read it's coming along well Si. A cassette tape 48K version is exciting enough, but a disk based +3 version would be fantastic. So good in fact that it would even jar me into action to get the floppy drive on my +3 sorted out, and maybe get the sound bug fixed at the same time.
I haven't been able to use AGES yet as I no longer have a DivIDE, so have no easy way to get it loaded onto a spectrum, plus most of the time I've had available has been away from a spectrum or a computer I can use as an emulator. I continue mapping it by hand, which is good fun, but a real challenge. Sometimes I wonder if Steve Jackson was working to a map or plan, or if he just made it up as he wrote it. I've managed to get a fair chunk of the upstairs mapped now. I hope to get some more done later today, but if not, definitely tomorrow, and maybe, just maybe, get it finished.... No promises though.
Considering the Fear factor in HoH I was wondering about incorporating Skill, Stamina & Luck as well. As AGES was primarily intended for working out a route through the game it currently ignores physical attributes and thus assumes that the player always wins combat, is in the best of health and always lucky. If I did that then I'd just assign them as additional inventory items rather than doing any special programming for them, so it would just be mainly a matter of entering the extra info in the conditions/actions array, just as for all the spells in Citadel of Chaos.
When it comes to actually writing a program for this, I wonder if it is possible to make it level selectable, ie EASY Mode, makes it like Choose Your Own Adventure, ie you always win a battle etc, or HARD, is playing by the proper Fighting Fantasy Rules.
Anyway today I am on a day off, and I am waiting in for a TIVO to be fitted and have our kitchen tap fixed, so in the meantime, I am going to try to finish mapping HoH by hand. I have got quite far now and need to finish it off, and then go back through to check I've been through every step.
My aim is to capture every single part of the book, draw the map and annotate it with the numbered refernces from the book, which is a fairly time consuming process, but quite good fun. I'd forgotten a fair bit of the book over the years. I think I last read it about 12 years ago.
When I've finished I'll either make a nice Computer drawn version on a PDF, or if I don't have time for that, I'll draw a neat version and scan it in so that whoever may write the programming can see it.
I think this could be a really nice thing when finished.
Anyway, I finally got started with more mapping at about 8.30 tonight! I've done loads. I reckon I'm nearly done, ie more than 3/4 of the way through, but I'm beat. Can't do any more at the moment, I'm too tired. I wore myself out trying to make sense of my scrawl., when trying to update the map.
I'll get back to it tomorrow hopefully.