Awful Q.I. news
Terrible news for fans of the TV programme Q.I., it's going to be hosted in future by Sandi Toksvig. Stephen Fry is leaving after thirteen years, and rather than get someone (anyone) who would do a good job of it, they've either decided to kill the program by putting on someone so unlike-able, or they've decided she ticks all of the right minority boxes (female, foreign, lesbian, little) to make the BBC look even more PC, regardless of the damage it will do to the show.
I can't even be bothered to make a pun on the Q.I. title for this, the news is so ****ing awful.
I can't even be bothered to make a pun on the Q.I. title for this, the news is so ****ing awful.
Comments
What they really needed to do was put someone on who would put their own spin on the format. Just as Les Dawson did when he took Blankety Blank from Terry Wogan. I like what they did in Have I got New For You by having Guest hosts, that too would keep it a little fresh.
Well atleast it ain't effing Jimmy 'Waste of space and utter Kunt' Carr!
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Or, worse yet, Alan Carr...
Ooh, my first post on WOS! I'm a newbie here :)
On paper she's a comedienne, presenter, writer, and some sort of speaker/activist for some things (I can't remember what causes, they might be good, it's her I can't stand, not necessarily her views). I only know her as a comic and a presenter, and I don't think she's any good at those at all. Granted my opinion is utterly subjective (as all are opinions, and we can all name people in the media who we can't stand), but to me this is terrible, terrible news. I'm talking Terry Christian or Graham Norton level of awfulness.
Can't even remember the last time I watched it, and when I do it always seems to be the one with the custard pump.
Other than that it's the Horror Channel or Talking Pictures TV (channel 81 freeview people)
Yeah, I know I'm missing out on the lovely Rachel Riley experience on 8 out of 10 cats do countdown.......
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Let's put to one side that Sandy Toksvig is a highly respected and well loved comedian with experience of hosting a very popular panel show (admittedly on the radio). As you say different strokes for different folks.
However, I do have to take issue with the idea that the BBC's choice of presenters follows some kind of pro-gay, pro-minority agenda.
1) For a start I don't think women (or foreigners, or short people for that matter) qualify as a minority group.
2) She does identify as gay, but the idea that people from the LGBT community are even adequately represented in the media is frankly laughable. If the BBC does have mandate to encourage and nurture talent from this long persecuted and significant section of society, it's failing to fulfil it.
I seem to recall that we had heated words once before in relation to your views on lesbians at the BBC. I don't want to re-open old wounds. This is a genuine appeal for you to revisit the text I've quoted. Don't transpose your disappointment with Stephen Fry leaving the programme into a dismissal of another human beings life, achievements and talent on the grounds of her sexual orientation (or height, or gender).
I could be wrong of course. Perhaps Stephen Fry only got the job in the first place because he's a giant, overweight, bipolar gay man? :)
I reckon they should bring in Brian Blessed though. Nothing will get done, but it'll be bloody funny. :D
Now Brian would be bloody hilarious, :D
Maybe it should be time for Alan to bow out too.
You seriously think that she's a " highly respected and well loved comedian"? Please post some links to the huge fan clubs, or to the forums where she's so venerated (and I don't mean her official site (anyone can have one) or a fan club website with a couple of dozen irregular visitors, or one off websites). Show me proof of her vast popularity, or even that most people don't just think of her as "That short, unfunny one from Whose Line Is It Anyway".
Offhand, I can't remember even one person I've ever met saying that she was funny or "much loved", and at work I get to talk to lots of people about comedies, TV, comedians, etc (I work as IT support in an office block, it's boring but you meet lots of people, and often pass the time by talking, and TV and comedy is a safe subject, plus it helps you size up if someone will be compatible as someone to talk to often). I also go on various TV/comedy forums, and I can't remember anyone talking about her fondly. She has come up in on-the-spot lists of people you don't want to see on programs like Have I Got News For You/Mock the Week8 Out of 10 Cats/etc, (my list includes Holly something (can't remember her name now) , Ken Livingston, Zoe Ball, Julian Clary, etc).
To be fair, she might be a good writer, a good actress, a good piano player for all I know, but going on what I've seen her in, I know she's not a good comedian. Granted that's my opinion, but it seems to be shared with the (fairly) varied people I met or read online who mention her. I have never once heard a conversation (or web post) started with something like "Sandy Toksvig is great isn't she? Did you see her last night on...".
The BBC is hardly a bastion of equality and impartiality (look at their news web site), and whilst I'm not saying that the BBC specifically choose a specific person for their minority status, it does seem the only way to explain some people who get on TV.
Seriously? Foreigners in this country are in a minority, so the are a minority group. So are short people (by definition, think about it). Women aren't a minority group (men are), but it's women who get most of the benefits from 'reverse discrimination'). If I touch a girls behind at work, I could get the sack, but if she does it to me, and I complain, then nothing would be done, as I'm just a man.
I was once told never to hold a door open for a woman, as I could be reported for it, which is stupid, but that's modern Britain for you. Look at those women a couple of days back who sued (and won, of course) their ex-husbands for millions of pound more divorce money. That wouldn't have happened if the ex-wife was rich and the ex-husband was poor, the courts wouldn't have said "Yes, have ten millions pounds more than the original couple of million that you got from your wife, who earned all the money whilst you sat at home all day".
I'm not saying that being a part of a minority is wrong - we are all minorities depending on how you slice the population, I'm a minority in lots of ways, such as:
- I'm a straight male who doesn't like football (or any sport), I honestly don't even know the offside rule,
- I'm a straight male who doesn't like alcohol,
- I'm an adult (45) who never learned to drive,
- I'm a first person shooter fan who doesn't like the CoD games (a fair few people claim the same, but judging by the sales figures, everyone but me buys eighteen copies every time a new one is released),
etc.
About 4-6% of people are gay, yet there are disproportionately more gays in TV (in front of, and behind the camera) than straight people. I think it was Bob Monkhouse who said that most men on TV are either homosexual or alcoholic (I've heard that this partly because gay men tend to be more flamboyant that straight men, and so tend to like the attention and excitement of TV and meeting celebreties). I don't mind if anyone on TV is gay or straight (I think that sex shouldn't be on the screen anyway, and you don't need to know if someone is gay or straight) provided they can do the job that they are there for. It's when someone gets a job that they are unsuitable for, just because of something that's not related to the job (i.e. because they are a minority, or because of nepotism, or even if they are just chosen at random even though much more qualified people are available) that it's wrong.
That said, I do think that if there is a definite push to get gay people on TV, then they are going the wrong way about it. There should be more TV programs ABOUT gay people, and in a positive light. Gays are almost always shown in fictional TV programs and films as either very minor characters (four lines and that's it), or as comedy overly-effeminate background characters, which does nothing to show (as it should) that gay people are everywhere and are just like straight people. Vicious (Ian Mckellan and Derek Jacobi) is, I think, a great thing because it presents gays as just like everyone else. Yes, the two main characters are shown as vain, inconsiderate, hurtful characters, but this is never shown as being because they are gay. The could be a straight couple, a man and women, and it would have been the same. Having gay people to be laughed at for being gay (as in about one in every three 1970s sit-com) is wrong, but having gay people to be laughed at for something that straight people also suffer from (stupidity, vanity, lack of a given skill, etc) is good (for a TV program) and should be encouraged.
I say the same thing about other minorites. Look how few black people are in TV programs or films, and how they almost never have a main role. They should do so, and especially in comedy, since I think comedy can break down predjudices. The program Gimme Gimme Gimme was great for this, as it was mainly Indian or Pakistani comedians making fun not only of white and/or British ignorance, but also of foriegn ignorance. It was impartial, mocking all stupidy, and for me it really got the message across that we're all the same underneath, since we all laugh at the same things. And I think that more comedy programs especially should have non-white, non-British people in them, BUT these comedians should get the job because they are talented, not because they are foreign or not white. Fill the rolls with people who aren't funny and the show will tank, and fail. But put good comedians in, and the fact that they are black/brown/whatever, or from another country will show that 'these people' laugh like us, and are like us.
Oh was that you? You said that Rik Mayall was being insulting when he called the BBC bosses 'lesbians' when thev refused to make another series of Bottom (despite public wishes, as per BBC policy of "Sod the licence payers wishes, this series is massively popular, so we won't make any more"), whereas I thought his anger was justified because the BBC was refusing to make another (potentially) series of Bottom, because it didn't forfill the BBC's attitude of political correctness before quality.
I also think you said you didn't like Rik Mayall? Despite him being an icon of comedy for many, many people, and staring in some of the funniest programs ever) but you think that Sandy Toksvig is a (to quote your own words) "highly respected and well loved comedian"?
If we had a poll on WOS as to who was the better comedian, Rik Mayall or Sandy Toksvig, do you really think that the latter would win? Or even get more than a few votes?
Seriously, the fact that she's gay, or Dutch (I think), or short, or has a surname that begins with "T", or never owned a Spectrum (as far as I know), or anything is irrelevant to me. As you say, Stephen Fry is famously gay, as are many of my favourite musicians, so was Arthur C. Clarke (the best science fiction writer ever, I think), Kenny Everette, Frankie Howard (I think?), Kenneth Williams, and Graham Chapman. And I think that they are (or were) fantastic. I thought that Matt Smith was gay (someone told me they'd heard it somewhere) and it didn't stop me thinking that his Doctor Who was brilliant. Leonardo Divinci was gay, so was (tragically, due to the way he was treated by the ungrateful British government) Alan Turing, and many other great people.
Graham Norton, Peter Tatchell, and Matthew Waterhouse are gay, and I don't like them at all, but not because of their sexuality.
I just don't like Sandy Toksvig, and I'd feel exactly the same if she were exactly the same but straight, British, and six feet tall. I just don't find her funny, I find her irritating, and I really think she'll be very bad for Q.I.
Maybe. Or maybe he had photos of the head of the BBC in a compromising situation. Or they could have chosen his name out of a hat, but he was good at the job, which is all I can judge him for. And Sandy Toksvig might be good for Q.I., but based on what I've seen of her in the past (which is all I can judge her on, so far) I really doubt it.
Of course, whoever they had chosen to replace him, some people would have been unhappy.
Agreed - I like Alan, but part of what made QI funny was his relationship with Stephen. Not sure how that'd work with Sandi Toksvig.
Danish, although she speaks such good English that for years I assumed she was from some remote Scottish island, based on her accent.
It's probably unhelpful to follow this line too far. Humour, above almost all things, is highly subjective and I'm certainly not going to contradict your observations and experiences at work and on comedy forums etc. Although I would like to cite some other anecdotal evidence to be considered in parallel with yours.
My parents (and their friends) like Sandy and wouldn't dream of missing the News Quiz. I've tried to explain to them that they can use iPlayer to catch-up, but there's about as much chance of them doing that as there is of them expressing their admiration for its host on an internet comedy forum.
Perhaps there's a demographic aspect at play, perhaps we all sub-consciously seek the company of people whose opinions mirror our own? I think the only think thing we can say with any certainty is that she has enjoyed a long and varied career in the media. Not an easy thing to do if the only basis of your success is positive discrimination.
Interestingly they get consistently get accused of bias by people on both sides of any debate where their impartiality is called in to question. As you may have guessed, I'm quite left\liberal leaning and probably would agree that there is a slight bias in that direction in their news reporting. In terms of their selection of presenters, actors etc., Frankly I'm baffled how the vast majority of them are selected - including those who don't represent a minority interest. Look at Tess Daly!
Apologies if I wasn't clear, I said that they don't really qualify as a minority group. With the possible exception of Sandy herself, I'm not aware of anybody lobbying for better representation of short Danish people in the media.
A thorny issue. The gender pay-gap is shrinking but still stands at around 10% and women are still under represented (proportionally speaking) at senior management, board level and in politics.
The law provides men and women with equal protection in this respect. If you're being sexually harassed at work and your employer is wilfully ignoring it, go to the police. I guarantee they'll take it seriously.
Agreed. I'm an equal opportunities door-holder-opener and refused to be bullied out of civility!
I believe in both cases, the men in question had fraudulently hidden the value of their assets from the courts and one had amassed most of his wealth through criminal activity? Perhaps not the best examples. I'm glad to say that I'm entirely unacquainted with the legal proceedings surrounding divorce and don't have enough information to formulate an opinion on whether the process favours one gender over another. Once again, I'm sure their is a wealth of anecdotal evidence to support both positions.
I don't drive either! Comedy double act?
I've only quoted a small part of this section of your response, because I believe the above paragraph quite succinctly sums up the point you were making. I also wanted to gently rib you on your mistype of "rolls" for "roles"; it's quite a funny image.
I'm not a fan of positive discrimination, and like you, I would like to see a broader range of inclusive high quality entertainment on television.
If there is a nub to my point, it's that most television/films/radio music are not for me. I think television executives make bad decisions all the time and we all have our bete noirs (mine is Tess Daly!). Within this context, I felt it was a little reductive to suggest that the long term presenter of one of the most popular and long-running radio panel shows of all time had been selected to present another popular long-running panel show on the basis of her being a short Danish lesbian.
Sometimes you have to stand up for the little people (sorry Sandy!).
Yes - that was me!
Not quite, I took issue with his use of lesbian as a pejorative term. Anger, however justified it may or may not be, makes asses of us all from time to time.
I quite like Rik Mayall, but wasn't a fan of Bottom at all.
Rik Mayall is also a highly respected and well loved comedian who, along with Sandy Toksvig, performed at the first night of the Comedy Store. Respect!
I'm not sure anybody other than you and I would vote. I would probably reluctantly vote for Rik Mayall and hope people would not infer a tacit criticism of Sandy Toksvig from my actions.
Good-oh! I do like her. I'm genuinely sorry that her choice as Stephen Fry's replacement will spoil your enjoyment of QI
Amen
Oh god Claudia Winkleman now there's somebody who should not be on TV, haven't seen her on TV in over 10 years probably, I bet by now her really awful tan has made her look like a Pepperami :D