Pentagram released for C64/128

Fizza

http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60547&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

I thought I'd post it in Chit Chat, even though it's related to the Spectrum it is aimed at a different platform.

Anyway, I think this is really impressive stuff, thoughts?

Pegaz

I mentioned this a few weeks ago, excellent conversion certainly the best so far, the speed is amazing.
This video I made on the C128 and the speed is the same as the Spectrum, while the C64 is a bit slower, but still very playable.
Excellent speed optimization, since it doesnt use hardware sprites, only the CPU and almost all 64kb of memory.
I didnt believe that this is possible, the previous attempt with Knight Lore is good, but noticeable slower, as a raw port from BBC version, without any optimization.
But, the best part is that there will be more improvements and also the announcement for Gunfright !

I've already started work on C64 Gunfright and I think its going to be a great conversion!

Also on the way is V1.20 of Pentagram which features some much improved sounds by Soulc and frame syncing so you can play it at 50hz with No slowdown on a 3mhz or greater Turbo Chameleon.

For Plus4 fans I also have a version of Pentagram V1.20 almost ready to go for that machine. It's very similar to the C64 version.

I'll keep you all posted on Gunfright and will release a WIP version as soon as I can.

dm_boozefreek

It's a bit late ;)

Zoffy

dm_boozefreek wrote: »

It's a bit late ;)

If they get Mire Mare before us there'll be Hell to pay ;)

ewgf

It's a great conversion!

Pegaz

dm_boozefreek wrote: »

It's a bit late ;)

Well, this is a nice addition to the C64 games library and also proof that 2-3 times slower CPU, can run such 3d isometric games at the same speed, with proper optimization.
For me, the possibility that some great Spectrum games (especially exclusives like this), can be played on various platforms and among wider number of users is just a bonus.
Actually, this is a kind of tribute to the Spectrum and its games. :)

dm_boozefreek

Indeed :)

But I bet there'll be a bunch of Commodians giving it "Ha! knew our giant grey monster could play these games!", either that or "Pfffft! Why would we want Speccy games anyway".

I sense another which is better thread coming soon :))

Pegaz

Well, Look at the Lemon thread in Fizza post and you'll be surprised how good and positive reception this conversion received. :)

Fizza

dm_boozefreek wrote: »

It's a bit late ;)

haha, perfect response! :) It's never too late!!

Zoffy wrote: »

dm_boozefreek wrote: »

It's a bit late ;)

If they get Mire Mare before us there'll be Hell to pay ;)

Rumours of Mire Mare being a C64 game like Solar Jetman was have yet to be confirmed.. :D

Fizza

Pegaz wrote: »

For me, the possibility that some great Spectrum games (especially exclusives like this), can be played on various platforms and among wider number of users is just a bonus.
Actually, this is a kind of tribute to the Spectrum and its games. :)

I couldn't agree more.

mel the bell

dunno if youre all aware, there was a bug fixed version linked to on page 3 of the comments

http://csdb.dk/release/?id=148188

somebody had said they couldnt find the final rune, so he fixed it

ewgf

What's the URL to the best version of Knightlore for the C64, please? From what I've read, there are at least two projects to make the game, with several different beta downloads, but I can't find a final release version.

Pegaz

Go to the link from mel post, this is the latest v1.10 version.
Direct link is here:
http://csdb.dk/release/download.php?id=183652

Also, new v1.20 release, coming soon...

ewgf

Pegaz wrote: »

Go to the link from mel post, this is the latest v1.10 version.
Direct link is here:
http://csdb.dk/release/download.php?id=183652

Also, new v1.20 release, coming soon...

No, I'm looking for Knightlore, not Pentagram.

Pegaz

Sorry, I completely overlooked, this is the latest version I have:
http://csdb.dk/release/download.php?id=128050

weesam

would have been nice to see some colour, even if it was just the sprite being a different (consistent) colour to the backgrounds.

Pegaz

It would be nice if the Pentagram author, did new Knight Lore conversion, with his excellent optimization.
Currently he works on Gunfright, which is also very good news, but full speed Knight Lore (and later Alien 8) should be his next priority, in my opinion.

ewgf

Pegaz wrote: »

Sorry, I completely overlooked, this is the latest version I have:
http://csdb.dk/release/download.php?id=128050

Thanks.

weesam wrote: »

would have been nice to see some colour, even if it was just the sprite being a different (consistent) colour to the backgrounds.

Yes, I thought that. Or does the screen mode the C64 is using for Pentagram also have attributes, similar to the Spectrum? Otherwise you'd have thought that Pentagram C64 would at least have had a different colour for the main sprite. Maybe the authors is planning to colourise the game when he's satisfied with everything else?

The Amstrad CPC has four colours (well, three colours plus the black background) for some isometric games, such as Head over Heels, and when the colours are well chosen, it looks fantastic. Didn't the BBC micro do this for Knightlore too?

weesam

it does have attributes, but it also has hardware sprites (see many high res games on the C64 like Heartland etc.)

Pegaz

C64 version of Knight Lore I posted is interesting, because the main character has his shadow reflected.
This is certainly slowed down animation even more, but it looks very nice.
Also there is additional graphics in status part at the bottom of the screen and nice ingame music.

btw, the BBC version is similar to Spectrum, with no extra colors on screen, like Amstrad.
About Pentagram, as far I know, author use charset mode instead hires bitmap to acheive more speed and result is really good.

Fizza

The C64 version is a port of a port to the Atari and it's that programmer who took care of the main optimizations as far as I read. It was stated that there was some memory left from which more juice can be squeezed for the C64 conversion and I also think it would be great for the main sprite to have a bit of extra color, like in Heartland/Starquake etc.. I'm totally fine with the rooms being monochrome if it's the difference between it working and not.

Unfortunately for this particular situation, Knight Lore has already been ported to the Atari, and formed the basis for the previous C64 ports if I'm not mistaken, however these versions were not as optimized it seems which is why they never got finished. It's worth remembering that the BBC & Atari have their 6502 running at 2mhz rather than the C64's 1mhz, which puts the BBC & Atari on par with a ~4mhz Z80, and which is why Ultimate (thankfully) decided to port their games to the BBC, which is the source platform from which the Atari versions are based upon and thus the C64 ports too.

If the author of the Atari versions decided to complete the set and also decide to do Knight Lore & Alien 8 then I think we will definitely see them appear on the C64, possibly due to optimizations even faster than the Spectrum version - although I would imagine that a contemporary z80 genius could find ways to optimize the Spectrum versions a lot more maybe?

The Amstrad had the benefit of a faster Z80 and also, and I'm not sure about the technicalities, it didn't suffer from the same attribute issues which allowed for the extra colour. Although for me the annoying melodic footsteps negate the bonus of the extra colour to put it below the Spectrum version.

Either way, it's exciting to see these developments. The Ultimate isometrics form part of the crown jewels of the 8bit era, and although Head Over Heels, Nosferatu and a few others proved that they were possible on the C64 it is/was still a big gap in the C64 library to not have them.

If only there was a way to get them officially released with proper artwork/cases and all that...

mel the bell

sod all these 3d games why cant they port Cookie tut

Fizza

Actually, Lunar Jetman & Jetpac would be great too.

fog

martin galway the muso was working on a port of jetman.. there is a bbc micro version I have also
http://www.gamesthatwerent.com/gtw64/lunar-jetman/

jet pac was on the vic 20.

there are a few decent speccy games I'd like ported to replace their shabby speccy ones cobra, turbo esprit and a few more

Luny

Jet pac on the Vic was awesome. It really showed of some excellent coding skills. To emulate the qualities of an arcade machine on such a lowly machine. Brilliantly done.