Tory Leadership Contest
Could not help it had to mention it, I know it won't interest everyone. Don't want to open a can of worms. But its chit chat, so be nice to each other.
Ok my own faith in politics has been at a low ebb for a while - I just feel pretty much now - better to get on with life, not read the papers too closely, or expect a lot, I live in this place called N. Ireland, so nuff said. A few things really have been **** me off recently and I want to just level out, and not become too cynical.
What is striking me though is how much whether the candidates are boring comes up in the current debate on this matter, I mean yes charisma is important, but this is not the X Factor, politicians mostly are boring, with only a few notable exceptions - Hitler of course wasn't boring. I never lived in the era of JFK, so only saw TV clips and a few famous quotes to know him by and he certainly didn't seem to be boring. But does it matter - what the PM's Job? I mean if Angela Merkel said "yes we have a deal - but you are very boring?" Would it matter?
Boris (or Johnston as he has suddenly become) is entertaining (up to a point) but I don't want him bumbling (entertaining as it maybe) as PM.
In some ways I would like a PM who is not adept at avoiding important questions, and who doesn't have a lovable slightly eccentric manner which makes him fireproof if situations arise when real criticism might be needed. That is my main concern regarding Boris Johnston. In the end we got to live with whoever gets it.
Feel free to disagree (its always nice to know why though :-)
Ok my own faith in politics has been at a low ebb for a while - I just feel pretty much now - better to get on with life, not read the papers too closely, or expect a lot, I live in this place called N. Ireland, so nuff said. A few things really have been **** me off recently and I want to just level out, and not become too cynical.
What is striking me though is how much whether the candidates are boring comes up in the current debate on this matter, I mean yes charisma is important, but this is not the X Factor, politicians mostly are boring, with only a few notable exceptions - Hitler of course wasn't boring. I never lived in the era of JFK, so only saw TV clips and a few famous quotes to know him by and he certainly didn't seem to be boring. But does it matter - what the PM's Job? I mean if Angela Merkel said "yes we have a deal - but you are very boring?" Would it matter?
Boris (or Johnston as he has suddenly become) is entertaining (up to a point) but I don't want him bumbling (entertaining as it maybe) as PM.
In some ways I would like a PM who is not adept at avoiding important questions, and who doesn't have a lovable slightly eccentric manner which makes him fireproof if situations arise when real criticism might be needed. That is my main concern regarding Boris Johnston. In the end we got to live with whoever gets it.
Feel free to disagree (its always nice to know why though :-)
Comments
Labour:
Lib Dem:
Something along those lines. Trouble really was caused imo by parliament itself:
1. We don't want May's deal
2. We don't want no deal
3. We don't want remain (not at least to admit it)
4. We took it upon ourselves to 'borrow' the order papers for the day and have our own way to decide what we did want and voted on our own ideas, trouble is we did *not really know* what we wanted
5. Toys out of pram etc because we don't really know what we want
:D
Can you say why, if you don't mind?
I watched a BBC thing briefly earlier - it was the guy with the glasses Nick Robinson I think asking the public their impressions. So he was talking to a group round a table and this women says about Jeremy Hunt that she didn't like him and he seemed "sly" to her. BBC chap didn't push too much to find out what she meant. Now everyone can have an opinion, but has he done something "sly"? How about grounding it in facts (things done). Perhaps there is grounds for criticism of his reforms while Health Minister? It really **** me off, this comment the lady made just passed without any real explanation.
Now Hunt has in our local Press got himself in hot water for something else but I can hardly think he meant what people are saying he meant. This was his comment about both sides here - without more context all I can think of is that he meant both communities need treated in the same way.
Here is the quote that's being talked about:
"The main thing and I want to be honest about this, you know, the peace in Northern Ireland was hard won and under the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, there is a need to treat both sides in the same way, however angry we may have felt about what happened."
What many people here are angry about is members of the IRA getting off easy under the Good Friday agreement, while the Security forces are still pursued as to legacy matters. And really one could quite plausibly interpret his words in the sense that those who committed terrorist acts during the troubles should be pursued to the same extent, that some people are pursuing legal actions against members of the security forces, which taken that way would be no different from what some Unionists here have said.
Without more context and clarification its really hard say that he was suggesting any moral equivalence between the IRA and the security forces - I think it is highly unlikely however. But he seems like a lot of politicians in that they tend to roll out platitudes, while being largely clueless about N. Ireland.
Treatment of junior doctors.
Lack of NHS investment.
A & E waiting times.
Even on Brexit he refuses to commit to anything. At least Boris has said October 31st is the deadline which will be met. (Whether this actually happen though is another story!!!)
Your BASIC analogy of the main parties is very well done, have you been working on that. its very funny too. Might have to run the INPUT Mag. TRACE program to see whats up with Labour's Code.
I'd have written the original BREXIT program like this
10 GOPROCedure CALC WeightedMajority
20 GOPROC Referendum
30 If REFRESULT >= WeightedMajority CALL BREXIT
40 ELSE GOPROC BUSINESS AS USUAL
The EU have kind of abandoned us to the phantom zone, till we agree to their terms, which is not a good place to be. But as Super-Girl said: " There's always a way out. If there is a way in, there is a way out!"
Zoltar: "There is a way, but its Impossible."
Supergirl: "Why?"
Zoltar: "Because it involves making Boris PM! If it didn't work we could be swept into a singularity called Little Britain"
For the last 30 years at least, nearly anything that can be blamed as being the EU’s fault, has been. Even if all the facts have been ignored and the real problem is due to our own government. Same as the tactic used by Trump (it’s the fault of the other countries etc...).
Reality is, it’s our own politicians that cause us the most problems. They love to offer us increased spending and without tax rises (or even offer us tax cuts). They say they will give more power to local or regional government, but don’t.
When something goes right, they want the limelight. But hide and push out a junior minister or civil service member when it’s bad news.
Basically, a lot of them take us for a ride.
Exactly the same happened with the Brexit so called ‘debate’ (both sides had the worst campaigns ever). Now the same is happening in the conservative leadership race.
What is best for the majority of the population is ignored. For example, in the eyes of the politicians if you are a labour supporter, you’re vote labour anyway. If you are a conservative supporter, you’re vote conservative. So they go for the floating voters....
Yes, Brexit has messed up the politicians numbers game. But Brexit itself is just a different numbers game. Do you believe story A or story B?
As for me, I dread to think how much more either of the candidates can mess this country up. So it’s a case of which one is the least worse. And I’m struggling now...
In terms of Brexit, I don’t see any advantages to leaving the EU. At least Hunt is being slightly more realistic with what he has said, compared to the comments from Boris...
On general matters, again it’s difficult. I don’t like Hunt for the reasons already listed by Richard above.
But Boris is just as bad. I mean, did you ever see Boris on Have I Got News for You? Also search for details of the water cannon trucks that London got when he was mayor of London. And I don’t remember any good things about public transport when he was in power.
But, as I don’t get a vote, I’m just a spectator, so don’t get too exited or upset.
Mark
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! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Mark, I am pleased to say I almost entirely agree. I am struggling to figure out who is least worse also. The only thing I would disagree is while our own politicians are often no better than those in the EU, at least we can see what we are voting for. I think you are right though its not worth getting either too excited or upset over.
I'll say this for the EU though, they did ban Magic Poop - "the versatile poop putty"!!
I just wish they wouldn't stop at that... Poop Freeze, and Neuticles, are still out there!!!
Does anyone seriously think a conservative government would have made holidays a right? Or to lay down a limit to how many hours your employer can make you work?
But that’s all water under the bridge as far as the two Tory leadership contenders are concerned...
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Yeah I don't know what was actually wrong with NHS, but at some point they started messing with it. I don't know how it was managed exactly back in the 1970s but there didn't seem to be a lot wrong. If they go back to having Ward Sisters that might sort most of it out (call me old-fashioned)
Pay can be relatively low too, interestingly when you hear about how those 'at the top of the tree' justify their huge salaries its a case of "its what we had to pay to get the appropriate level of people in" , problem here is they don't want to do that at the other end of the scale aka pay the 'bottom rung' staff a decent level. This is slightly self defeating as you then end up getting in temp agency staff at a hugely more expensive rate than if you had paid your own staff something a little bit more. This is not dissimilar to universities and the like too, paying their top people huge chunks of cash compared to lower level staff. I don't think there is a fix for this other than setting the top salaries at a sensible level but not an insane one in some cases, ultimately if its not enough they won't bother applying for the job although how anyone can say 70K or more per year is "not enough" is beyond me lol.
Perhaps I'm looking at the NHS in the wrong way here, I suppose the main issue is the simple fact there are far too many people using it. The reasons for this are far too complex however. I'm purposely leaving out "health tourism" from this.
Unsure if cleaning is still contracted out too, that probably costs more.
The Ward Sisters idea, I have heard that mentioned before and it does seem a half practical one.
On Brexit itself, well I do wonder if the vote had gone the other way by the same small percentage if the leavers would of been allowed to pipe up and make noises the way some of the remainers are, or if they would of been just told "you lost, that's it no more be quiet for at least ten years" , maybe. :D
And with rather long waiting times, there are probably not many people who come here only for treatment on the NHS. This is another one of those subjects that certain politicians like to blow up out of all proportion so that they look good on TV...
I strongly suspect, if it had gone the other way, but been close, the leavers would have been shouting at whoever would listen, about how the establishment had fixed it so that they had lost, and that it was not a true democratic vote, so it should be run again....
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
I don't believe it really matter. One is a pretend-bumbling fool..but he's got all the backing.The other to me is a slimy individual of the highest calibre. Unless they deliver on brexit, the Tory party is doomed to the back of the shed for a generation. People voted brexit for mainly one reason..an end to mass movement and mass immigration. Failure to fully deliver on that aspect is sure to doom them. It doesn't look like they intend to deliver..therefore...
Leaving Europe may be a good thing for democracy...if not industry or finance. It's got too big(and corrupt), and by breaking it down into smaller components, its much more revelant. It hands power back to the people. As it stands they hide behind Europe as some has commented. However, politics all over europe is fragmenting into non-mainstream parties. It looks the case for UK too.
So who is the better or worse...can't fit a cigarette paper between them to be honest...and it looks very bleak for Tory. Very bleak indeed. Tory press and media can't hold the fort for much longer.
One question though, how many people (voters) actually take a detailed look at the proposed policies from the various political parties?
How many even bother to download copies of their manifestos? I bet the answer is, not many.
So certainly some just go on their own preconceptions and/or the sound bites from TV/radio and stories from the newspapers.
And is the internet and social media helping or just creating a bias depending on who is spending the money to put their propaganda out?
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
I should point out, only the legal ones obviously! But I had to include some of the what I would term 'distasteful' ones , I wanted to see what *all* (the top six or seven I think it was at the time now, can't be sure twas not that many) had to say, no matter how bad it was. That number includes the usual regular ones btw.
Needless to say nothing really inspired me that much.
In the past there was these staff called Ward Sisters, actually I was doing some searching and they seem to still exist (my mistake) or else they are called Charge Nurses. They run an entire hospital ward. Possibly the role my have changed a bit from what it was in the past. Some in old days were battleaxes to be sure, but they took any insults like water off a ducks back - they made sure patients were not wandering around who should be in bed and kept the nurses on their toes. To get an idea watch some 50s British hospital flick. They had probably had the most thankless job.
"Then mine's a pint".
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
The NHS is always a thorny issue - especially funding.
To put it in some kind of context the NHS & Socal Care consume roughly one third of government receipts and Benefits consume another 3rd and all the other departments ( defence, agriculture, education, law enforcement etc ) get to fight for the rest.
There is simply no way of increasing spending on any one department without either :
a. Taking money from another department
b. putting up taxes
c. borrowing and letting someone else sort it out later.
So it doesn't matter who's in charge of the conservatives or if labour are in charge, these are the cold hard facts and thinking otherwise is folly of the worst kind.
And just to be clear nobody likes option a or b cos it won't win an election and option c is what 'new' labour did and we still haven't got over that yet and government spending has been reduced so much to cover it that nobody likes that outcome either.
Gets coat and exits stage right :)
"We must retain our sovereignty" - by overruling the sovereignty of parliament.
"We all have to stand together" - from people who want to separate us from our trading partners.
"Scotland must remain in the union" - from people who want out of a larger union.
"We must control immigration" - from people who attack asian immigrants as a problem, so cutting ourselves off from European worker movement would mean more immigration from Africa, Asia, R.o.W, not less.
"Too many foreigners" - from people who've never even met one or set foot outside their home county their entire miserable lives.
"It's for the future of Britain" - from miserable old gits on their deathbed.
"Wartime spirit" - from people born in 1950-something.
"We'll get a better deal" - from 27 separate countries who took three years to agree on the current one and have categorically stated that's it.
"You don't negotiate without the threat to walk away" - because playing brinkmanship against an uncooperative committee of 27 heads of state who mostly can't stand each other is going to be a winning tactic.
"Drugs are bad, m'kay" - from a bunch of over-priveleged coke-headed f*cks.
And never mind the tirade of outrage from Bojo The Clown when Blair was replaced by Brown as Prime Minister mid-term with no general election.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
And if people want to vote for Brexit Party members as their local MP then by all means let them and just see how fast their local services collapse with one of those racist cretins in charge.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
You obviously don’t understand politics [-X
Politicians nearly always promise or hint at higher spending and/or lower taxes. ‘Cus they always think they can do better than any of the preceding politicians...
“It’s okay, we can make efficiency savings...”. Yeah, right, that’s often less than 0.1% of the budget...
Big programs/projects are nearly always costed far too conservatively, so nearly always go over budget.
Governments (read politicians) often don’t make up their mind quickly enough, or change their mind and this also comes at a time and monetary cost.
And once we as a country have a debt (not that we have been debt free for many, many, many years mind), we NEVER pay it all back. Instead we just get a new “loan” and use this to pay off the old one...
So we then spend money servicing (paying the interest or equivalent) on the debt...
Then, when the government does try to claw back to no longer increasing borrowing, cuts to the services and department budgets result in reduced services to the people of the country.
Oh, and just for the record, the Conservative Party DOES put up taxes (VAT for example), and both main parties are both guilty of borrowing.
Look at history to see that this country has always found the rulers (be it Kings, Queens or politicians) hunting around looking for a new tax to pay for something.
On the economy, the reality is that any government has a lot less control over the economy than they would like you to think. But again politicians hint at growing the economy...
Of course part of the problem with the NHS, social care and many other areas, is unnecessary artificial dividing lines, and mismanagement due to restrictions. Some hospitals actually have operating theatres unused due to not having enough doctors or support staff.
Our local hospital closes its A&E department every night due to lack of doctors and support staff. If you need A&E, it is a 20 mile road trip to the next nearest hospital. And if you are taken by ambulance, when you find yourself discharged in the middle of the night, you have to fork out for a taxi to take you home again. Or wait until public transport starts up.
And once an ambulance is near another hospital, if there is a call in that area, they have to respond. So it could be hours before the ambulance and crew can return to their normal area.
Of course, the NHS management won’t tell us how much extra it is costing for ambulances to take patients to other hospitals...
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Often the solution to increasing government spending, is more economic activity in the country. Higher wages, higher sales, higher profits etc increases tax revenues. Hence lowers government borrowing.
Conversely, a lack of wage rises, a lack of sales, a lack of profits etc reduces tax revenues. Hence increases government borrowing. And no government wants to heap extra pain on the voters or companies if the economy is in decline.
And partly, what happens abroad affects our economy.
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
A friend applied as a full time cleaning team member a while back to our local via their curious 'agency' they use now, the forms demanded a shedload of stuff almost like they were applying to be a high-up member as such (but that's pretty standard these days, they want a degree for anything!***) , the interesting thing is there was an 'expected salary' , she put she wanted 24K which I think worked out to about £12 to £14/ph , depending on how many worked and the reasoning given when asked about why was because the "upper people justify their money to get the 'best people for the job' so that should apply all the way down the scale' , guess what, no job ;) , to be honest given the likely things you might have to clean up in a hospital (bugs aside) that's not too much money.
I can see her logic in that actually maybe.
The other problem is there are likely too many people trying to use the NHS itself. I'm going to skip out on things like immigration and the like as that is a kettle of fish in its own right, although it seems some people who for whatever reason are not registered with a GP will go to A+E rather than a walk-in centre.
I'm not convinced on the argument that there are more elderly people needing care causing the 'problem' , yes there are more however its down to stupid lack of co-operation so that they end up staying in hosp longer than they needed to. I can speak from personal experience here with a relative who was 'held back' for about 3-4 days while the social messed about, the ironic thing here being all the stuff they 'insisted he needed (the social and health people) he never did! I managed to get it all taken back in the end after a coupe of months. This is just the tip of the iceberg I'm quite sure.
Talking of which I think if some of the walk-in centre's had if possible longer hours open ( again, lack of staff :( ) the pressure on A+E might drop a little bit perhaps ?
There's also the concern of those at the weekend who have had far too much to drink causing mayhem. I'd probably leave them to their own devices if it was not life threatening. If they assaulted any staff I'd leave them regardless.
*** I'd rather employ someone who could do the job rather than someone who could not who had endless bits of paper qualifications falling out their pockets, seen this myself in a different industry.
Matrons were even more formidable than ward sisters, they kept the doctors in line too!
Well its don't do as they do, as usual...
You seem to be saying its been badly executed, and the rationales are bit disingenuous at times. If so I agree. But there has been a bit of hypocrisy and silly reasons given on both sides.
Of course, people did vote for Brexit, though wasn't clearly defined what leaving meant.
We could have remained were we are but I think a half way house position is in our worst interests - it becomes the worst of both worlds, rather than the best, for we would have to follow EU regulations but have lacked clout in the debates that determine those regulations. And either full membership meaning becoming part of the Eurozone or if not that then Brexit becomes the only rational options it seems to me. I may be wrong, but its possible that even greater union would be required in the future and more loss of national sovereignty.
It was a bit top heavy in the past too, see photo of Hattie Jacques. :))
But in all seriousness, i totally agree with your point - its become a bit depersonalised.
It seems to be taking forever to elect a new Tory leader.