New WoS and ZXDB

edited June 18 in Updates
It turns out new WoS is using ZXDB! More precisely ZXDB version 1.08 released on September 2, 2018.

Don't you believe me? Then visit new WoS software page and click on "EXPORT CSV (ALL)", to download some of the data from all titles stored in new WoS. Afterwards see if you can find any differences between new WoS content and the ZXDB version I mentioned... Or visit a few game pages at random to compare old WoS (search for a game in Google then click "cached"), new WoS, and any other site running ZXDB like SpectrumComputing or ZXInfo.

Don't take the wrong, I'm glad that new WoS is using ZXDB. Rebuilding WoS was exactly the reason ZXDB was created. I have been trying for years to convince Lee Fogarty that it would be a terrible idea otherwise (as recently as last week). The community doesn't deserve to have everyone's contributions thrown away, restarting everything from scratch for absolutely no reason. Besides, ZXDB is an open database, everyone is welcome to use it, there's no need to even ask my permission.

So what's the problem?

The problem is using ZXDB while pretending otherwise. Last month (May 2020), Lee Fogarty explicitly claimed new WoS would initially use "old WoS data" (although WoS hasn't been updated since 2013) and they were "going through the data applying fixes", fixing "thousands and thousands of errors", etc. However this claim is false: new Wos is not using either. It's using ZXDB from 2018. So now you know where thousands and thousands of fixes came from.

Even worse, there was clearly an attempt to disguise using ZXDB. For instance, ZXDB version 1.08 contained 24369 non-Timex programs from old WoS (from ID=1 to ID=28187), 6011 programs added in ZXDB (from ID=28201 to ID=34414), and 137 Timex programs from old WoS (from ID=4000001 to ID=4000143). New WoS is using all data from ZXDB 2018, but all IDs above 28187 were removed, so it only shows the same 24369 titles that already existed in old WoS. Well, actually new WoS indicates 24368 titles because somehow they lost Trans-Disc Express along the way. Therefore you currently won't find any titles in new WoS that were added after 2013... although it still contain several references to them! A few examples:

* Comercio Cosmico was released in 1987. Later I re-released it myself in English as Cosmic Commerce in 2015. Old WoS from 2013 didn't know it, but this re-release appears at new WoS (click on "RELEASES" to see it).

* En Busca de Mortadelo was re-released by Team Siglo XXI in 2017. Again old WoS didn't know it, but new WoS does.

* Catacombs of Balachor was a single game in old WoS. After a sequel was released in 2014, this game was added to series "Balachor" in ZXDB. You won't find the sequel at new WoS, but Catacombs of Balachor at new WoS lists series "Balachor", that only contains "Catacombs of Balachor". Isn't it weird to see a series of only one game?

* Alter Ego was a single game in old WoS. After a sequel was released in 2014, this game was added to series "Alter Ego" in ZXDB. You won't find the sequel at new WoS, but Alter Ego at new WoS lists a series called "Alter Ego", that only contains game "Alter Ego".

There are other ways to identify this data came from ZXDB. For instance, old WoS didn't distinguish text adventures, therefore Colossal Adventure and The Hobbit were both classified as "Adventure: Text". In ZXDB 2018, we added the distinction between "Adventure Game: Text-Only" (like Colossal Adventure) and "Adventure Game: Text/Illustrated" (like The Hobbit). Coincidentally that's what you see at new WoS pages for Colossal Adventure and The Hobbit.

But wait, last week I insisted once again that new WoS should use ZXDB. So perhaps my argument finally convinced Lee Fogarty to change his mind, but then he "forgot" to mention it? Not really. I wrote it last week (June 2020), when I was accused of "stealing" WoS data (proved wrong), copying another database and not crediting other people properly for their participation on creating it (also proved wrong). But if you visit any game page at new WoS at random, you will notice almost all of them are dated May 2020. Which means they falsely accused me of doing it, while they were already doing themselves exactly this! Incredible.

But wait, perhaps ZXDB 2018 was not copied directly, these are just coincidences? I mean, it's theoretically possible that every single change made in ZXDB for the first 2 years was added independently to the old WoS database. After all, most of these changes came from posts publicly available in discussion forums. Or perhaps someone simply saw information in other sites using ZXDB, then typed them again into old WoS... Right?

Wrong. New WOS is a straight copy directly from ZXDB 2018, period. How do we know? Well, let's dive a little deeper.

Martijn's WoS internal file maindb.dat contained the following comment for BIFROST* ENGINE:
Inspired by {ZXodus Engine|Andrew Owen [2]}.

Based on it, old WoS produced the following HTML:
Inspired by <a href="http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseek.cgi?regexp=^ZXodus+Engine$&pub=^Andrew+Owen+[2]$&loadpics=1">ZXodus Engine</a>.

By comparison, ZXDB database file contains the following comment for the same title:
Multicolor 8x1 Graphics Engine (18 char columns x 18 char rows). Inspired by {ZXodus Engine|Andrew Owen [2]|0026639}.

Although this is not what you see at websites, because each site uses this information from ZXDB to generate their own HTML. This is actually what you see at SpectrumComputing:
Multicolor 8x1 Graphics Engine (18 char columns x 18 char rows). Inspired by  <a href="index.php?cat=96&id=0026639">ZXodus Engine</a>.

This is what you see at ZXInfo:
Multicolor 8x1 Graphics Engine (18 char columns x 18 char rows). Inspired by <a href="https://zxinfo.dk/details/0026639">ZXodus Engine</a> (Andrew Owen [2]).

And this is what you see at new WoS site:
Multicolor 8x1 Graphics Engine (18 char columns x 18 char rows). Inspired by {ZXodus Engine|Andrew Owen [2]|0026639}.

It means this line wasn't even copied from another site. It was imported straight from ZXDB source file. Just like everything else.

Also according to new WoS, BIFROST* belongs to a group called "BIFROST/NIRVANA" (exactly like in ZXDB), although NIRVANA itself was removed from new WoS after importing ZXDB.

Another interesting point is, there are 2 Spectrum authors called "Andrew Owen", so this Andrew was originally added to old WoS as "Andrew Owen [2]". Years ago Andrew told me by email that his middle initial was "S", so I changed ZXDB from "Andrew Owen [2]" to "Andrew S. Owen". However I forgot to update this comment... Coincidentally new WoS made the same mistake! Thus leading to our next example:

I co-authored "FZX" with Andrew in 2013. He was originally credited as "Andrew Owen [2]" in old WoS. He's now credited as "Andrew S. Owen" in ZXDB. But if you look at new WoS, you will notice he's credited both ways: author "Andrew S. Owen" and publisher "Andrew Owen [2]" (open "RELEASES" below to see it). So what's the reason for this inconsistency? Because the list of publishers in new WoS came mostly from Martijn's WoS internal file publishers.dat, that Lee Fogarty imported back in May 2017 and never fixed, but all actual game data came from ZXDB. How do we know? Because game data at new WoS contains all information that was updated in ZXDB 2018, but the list of publishers at new WoS still contains all the bugs I reported when I started ZXDB in 2016. For instance Waner Brothers was reported in July 2016.

OK, so I made it clear that new WoS is using an old version of ZXDB. But wait, these people also helped me to import old WoS content into ZXDB at the beginning. Therefore we should excuse them for using the result of their own work without crediting ZXDB, right? The problem is, I imported old WoS content with their help from July 2016 to August 2016. If they had used one of the early versions of ZXDB that they participated, without crediting ZXDB, I would leave it alone. However they chose to use a version of ZXDB from September 2018, in order to take advantage of over 2 years of other people's work, without crediting anybody. That's a ZXDB version released 2 years after WoS stopped supporting ZXDB and started attacking my work. About 1 year after ZXDB and SpectrumComputing were censored at WoS thus forcing ZXDB to move to another forum. Months after I was personally censored at WoS without ever receiving any explanation.

This leads to our next question. Here's a list of ZXDB releases since we started numbering them in early 2018. Why did they chose to use ZXDB version 1.08 from September 2018? It cannot be that they got the most recent version available at the time, because if they took it before ZXDB 1.09 (October 2018), it would mean they have been lying for the last 2 years about importing data from old WoS and working on thousands of fixes themselves. It cannot be that they only started using ZXDB recently but deliberately downloaded an older version of ZXDB to make it harder for people to notice, because that would be really dishonest...

The bottom line is, it's now clear WoS made little progress for years, despite claiming they were busy working on a much better database containing thousands and thousands of fixes. In the meantime, they initially made excuses for not using ZXDB, then attacked our work with false accusations. Half a decade later, when a new WoS is finally launched, it's simply using ZXDB in disguise. And it happened only 4 days after they falsely accused ZXDB of copying another database without crediting people's work! How ironic.

What now? Should new WoS stop using ZXDB? Of course not! To stop doing it now, after getting caught, would only make it look even worse. A new site using even older data, full of errors already fixed for the last few years, won't help anybody in the community. Instead, I would simply expect an apology for this stunt, and to properly credit somewhere in new WoS that it's using content originally from ZXDB (according to the ZXDB license). Easy, right?

Also for heaven's sake, use an updated version of ZXDB! Why take 2 years of other people's work while trying to avoid crediting them, when you could have taken all 4 years!!!


EDIT: Just fixed a missing link.
Post edited by Einar Saukas on
Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
«1

Comments

  • This post came from the SINCLAIR FOR SALE private group on Facebook:

    chandlers4s.jpg

    This is truly bizarre. I provided very detailed proof that new WoS has copied ZXDB while trying to disguise it, posted here in their own public forum. The people that did it is vehemently denying it... but only on private groups where I don't have access (so I cannot dispute their claims), while staying silent in their own forum!

    It's kinda like someone saying "These public accusations against me are absurd! I will immediately write a letter refuting everything, but then lock my letter in my own desk to ensure nobody will ever see my answer!"

    I hope you don't mind if I post a reply here to your claims:

    Where did Einar get his data from? It was scraped from WoS.

    No, nothing was scraped. This data was imported directly from Martijn's internal WoS files that Lee Fogarty gave me. It's hard to believe you still don't know this, since I told you again last month.


    Secondly WoS could not use ZXDB even if it wanted to as WoS is updated instantly whilst Einar has to make changes manually.

    ZXDB is not changed manually anymore. For the last couple years, we have been using a software called ZX-Ed.

    And now WoS is using a different software to update its own copy of ZXDB 2018.

    Each software can use its own copy of the same database. This argument doesn't prove anything.


    I'm no expert on how these things work but I'm pretty sure if ZXDB had been scraped the SC site owner would have noticed.

    I'm pretty sure too. But since ZXDB is an open database, nobody had to scrap anything. Instead, Lee Fogarty simply had to download ZXDB from a publicly available link, that's very easy to find. Just go to the official ZXDB repository, click on "commits" and choose the version you want to download. In particular, if you are looking for the same old ZXDB version 1.08 that WoS is currently using, you will get this link (the same I mentioned in my original post):

    https://github.com/zxdb/ZXDB/blob/c4bd3e40d81a8d478baa69866adcc4e6a053cdaa/ZXDB_mysql.sql
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • edited July 2
    Also about this:
    I'm no expert on how these things work

    OK, let's forget the technical arguments. I will give you a much simpler proof that won't require any technical knowledge.

    Visit the Joust page at new WoS:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/software/games/joust-softek

    Inside "Comments", there's a link on the word "message". Click on it, and you will get an error when it tries to open this page:
    https: //worldofspectrum.org/zxdb/sinclair/pics/Joust.gif
    

    Now visit the Captain Slog page at new WoS:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/software/games/captain-slog-alpha-omega-software

    Again, click on word "message" inside "Comments". You will get a new error when it tries to open this page:
    https: //worldofspectrum.org/zxdb/sinclair/pics/CaptainSlog.gif
    

    When Lee Fogarty copied the ZXDB 2018 database, he forgot to modify these links to disguise the fact they are referencing the new ZXDB repository.


    EDIT: Modified the way I wrote these links in this post, to make URLs visible
    Post edited by Einar Saukas on
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • And I just noticed that Asteroid at new WoS has the same problem:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/software/games/asteroid-alpha-omega-software

    Clicking on "message" will also give you an error, when it tries to open this link:
    https: //worldofspectrum.org/zxdb/sinclair/pics/CaptainSlog.gif
    

    How much more evidence do you need?
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • This site just went offline a few minutes ago, now it's back again with these links changed.

    It's good to know Lee Fogarty is reading my posts :)
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • BTW these links are still broken. They are now referencing files that don't exist at "/pics/comments/" instead of files that don't exist at "/zxdb/sinclair/".

    @Lee Fogarty you will need to download these images from the ZXDB repository and upload them to your site in order to make them work!
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • edited July 2
    In case anyone missed what happened, I have this strange habit of taking screenshots of evidence in case it disappears somehow...

    This is the Joust page until a few minutes ago:

    wos-joust.png

    This is what happened to WoS while the database was getting modified directly:

    wos-down1.png

    And this is the same page now:

    wos-after.png

    Interestingly the "Updated On" date at the bottom hasn't changed. It's because the database was updated directly (then the entire website restarted in a hurry) instead of using the online update tool at WoS to do it. Perhaps because it wouldn't look too good in "What's new?" page to explicitly say "replaced ZXDB links"? We will never know...
    Post edited by Einar Saukas on
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Oh no! Another ZXDB link in the new WoS archive!!!

    This time it's Ant Attack by Quicksilva:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/software/games/ant-attack-quicksilva-ltd

    If you open this page and look at "Known Errors", it will look like this:

    wos-ant1.png

    Can you see that broken link icon? Right click on it and choose "open image in new tab". You will find out the reason it's broken is because this file is missing:
    https:// worldofspectrum.org/zxdb/sinclair/pics/AntAttackBoy.png
    

    Or you can choose "Inspect" so you can see the page source like this:

    wos-ant2.png

    Is this going to require another website restart to hide this evidence? Let's see...
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • BTW if you go to this link:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/software/games

    Then click on "Export CSV (ALL)", you will download a list of all games currently visible at new WoS.

    You can open this file in any text editor and search for "zxdb". I just checked, and this link to "/zxdb/sinclair/" is still there.

    Obviously if anyone downloaded and kept this file before the database was changed today, it will also contain the other ZXDB links I mentioned before.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Since my last post yesterday, all software comments at new WoS have changed. I wonder if this change is somehow related to anything I wrote? :)

    However it was a weird change. Basically all comments were changed from ZXDB 2018 back to Martijn's old WoS content, but discarding title and publisher from old WoS, and keeping IDs in comments taken from ZXDB 2018. It's easier to explain what happened if we look at an example.

    Let's talk again about BIFROST* ENGINE. This was the comment from Martijn's old WoS internal file:

    Inspired by {ZXodus Engine|Andrew Owen [2]}.
    

    This is old WoS site using this information:

    BIFROST-old-Wo-S.png

    This was the comment from ZXDB 2018:

    Multicolor 8x1 Graphics Engine (18 char columns x 18 char rows). Inspired by {ZXodus Engine|Andrew Owen [2]|0026639}.
    

    "Coincidentally" it looked exactly like new WoS a few days ago:

    BIFROST-prev.png

    Now this is the comment from today's new WoS CSV file:

    Inspired by {software|0026639}.
    

    This is how it appears at new WoS now:

    BIFROST-now.png

    As you can see, Lee Fogarty removed the multicolor explanation added in ZXDB 2018. He also removed title "ZXodus Engine" and publisher "Andrew Owen" from old WoS. He just kept the ID number 0026639 that was added in ZXDB 2018. This kind of change has been done to all comments in WoS now, thus reading comments at WoS don't make much sense anymore.

    Frankly these attempts to disguise using ZXDB 2018 at new WoS are just making everything worse!
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Stop this shite ffs! Either prosecute, or shut the f*ck up fs,

    We are bored of watching this **** high thing,. well, I am at least lol
    So far, so meh :)
  • edited July 3
    polomint wrote: »
    Stop this shite ffs! Either prosecute, or shut the f*ck up fs,

    We are bored of watching this **** high thing,. well, I am at least lol

    I don't get it.

    For over 2 years, I have only returned to this forum to defend myself when wrongly accused:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/939858/#Comment_939858
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/944206/#Comment_944206
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/944350/#Comment_944350
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/967102/#Comment_967102
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/967208/#Comment_967208

    You never posted anything about this, thus apparently this subject never bored you before.

    But now that I'm posting evidence of wrongdoing, which is basically counterproof against this accusation (and against similar claims behind my back in the private WoS group at Facebook that I cannot access) then it's boring you now?
    Post edited by Einar Saukas on
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • As per SC post..

    That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums. Sort it out somewhere else. I absolutely agree that personal accusations should be refuted if they need to be.

    But arguing about an open db is essentially a waste of time (bar the excitement for bored retro err people).

    We all like both WoSF and SC, let's not poison and feckup both!
    So far, so meh :)
  • edited July 3
    I disagree, it’s fun watching the events unfold as someone and their actions are constantly rumbled :))

    And whatever the members here think, other people are talking about what’s happening with WoS elsewhere on the web.

    The cat is well and truly out of the bag and no one can grab it and to try to put it back in...

    Here’s a thought, maybe the community should stop continuing to drift apart and try to get back to trying to work together. Whoops, sorry that last part was too radical, I’ll get me coat...

    Mark
    Post edited by 1024MAK on
  • polomint wrote: »
    Stop this shite ffs! Either prosecute, or shut the f*ck up fs,

    We are bored of watching this **** high thing,. well, I am at least lol
    Don't read the thread then.

    I am kinda interested in it. And judging by the amount of views the thread has others are too.
    polomint wrote: »
    That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums
    Um, it's posted in the Updates section which seems to be about updates to the site as a whole and not just the forums so it is relevant.
    Oh, no. Every time you turn up something monumental and terrible happens.
    I don’t think I have the stomach for it.
    --Raziel (Legend of Kain: Soul Reaver 2)

    https://www.youtube.com/user/VincentTSFP
    Thanked by 11024MAK
  • As per SC post too:
    polomint wrote: »
    That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums.

    Most accusations against me regarding this subject were posted in this forum:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/939858/#Comment_939858
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/944206/#Comment_944206
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/944350/#Comment_944350
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/967102/#Comment_967102
    https://worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/comment/967208/#Comment_967208

    Why do you think my answer against these accusations has nothing to do with this forum?
    polomint wrote: »
    Sort it out somewhere else.

    Where?
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Is it a civil accusation that involves making you look bad? If so, then please prosecute as I would expect you to.
    If not, shut up.


    DISCLAIMER
    ===================
    I DONT GIVE A SHITE ABOUT WOSF OR SC.
    THEY ARE BOTH AS **** STUPID AS EACH OTHER WHEN TRYING TO **** UP THE SPECTRUM COMMUNITY !!!!!!!!!!
    So far, so meh :)
  • polomint wrote: »
    Is it a civil accusation that involves making you look bad? If so, then please prosecute as I would expect you to.
    If not, shut up.

    So when people are falsely accused, it's wrong to defend themselves? The only acceptable reactions are either prosecute or shut up?

    Really?
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • WoSF and SC , just talk, and agree, it's not bloody hard to work ou
    So far, so meh :)
  • polomint wrote: »
    WoSF and SC , just talk, and agree, it's not bloody hard to work out

    So far, so meh :)
  • polomint wrote: »
    Is it a civil accusation that involves making you look bad? If so, then please prosecute as I would expect you to.
    If not, shut up.

    So when people are falsely accused, it's wrong to defend themselves? The only acceptable reactions are either prosecute or shut up?

    Really?

    Unfortunately yes, either put up or shut up.;.... I don't agree but that is the way nowadays :(
    So far, so meh :)
  • polomint wrote: »
    WoSF and SC , just talk, and agree, it's not bloody hard to work out

    It shouldn't.

    But if you look at my previous posts (just click on my name then chose "Discussions" or "Comments" to see them), you will notice I wrote literally hundreds of posts since 2016 trying to convince Lee Fogarty and Richard Chandler to do so.

    This situation was not caused by lack of "talking" or trying.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Back on topic...

    Although new WoS contains an online update tool, very few changes have been made using it. Most recent changes were applied directly to the database in a hurry, as reaction to the evidences I have been posting here :)

    New WoS was launched 18 days ago (June 15th). During this time, there were 12 relevant changes to individual entries in new WoS, except for "RZX files" added manually one by one (which is nonsense since they can be imported all at once from latest ZXDB version). They are listed here:

    https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/whats_new

    One of them was additional comments for an adventure called "Werner's Quest". ZXDB didn't change this comment since it was imported from Martijn's old WoS. So this is how it appears at SpectrumComputing for instance:

    werner-quest-SC.png

    On June 17th, new comments were added using new WoS online update tool, so it looked like this:

    werner-quest.png

    Yesterday, when Fogarty Lee was in a hurry to revert all comments taken from ZXDB 2018, he ended up reverting his own changes too. This is how it appears in new WoS now:

    werner-quest-NEW.png

    Notice how these additional comments vanished, although it still shows it was updated on June 17th. Ouch!
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • This is interesting!

    3D Monster Maze is one of my favorite ZX81 games. Russell Marks ported it to the Spectrum, here's a comment taken directly from Martijn's internal WoS file:
    J.K. Greye Software Ltd's {3D Monster Maze|J.K. Greye Software Ltd} for the ZX81 emulated on a 128K Spectrum.
    

    This is how it appeared at the old WOS site:

    monstermaze-old-WOS.png

    As I mentioned before, ZXDB added IDs to these references. This is the same comment from ZXDB 2018:
    J.K. Greye Software Ltd's {3D Monster Maze|J.K. Greye Software Ltd|0028617} for the ZX81 emulated on a 128K Spectrum.
    

    As I also mentioned before, Fogarty Lee has just modified all comments to remove title and publisher, but keep IDs from ZXDB. This is the same comment right now, in today's new WoS CSV file:
    J.K. Greye Software Ltd's {software|0028617} for the ZX81 emulated on a 128K Spectrum.
    

    And this is exactly how it looks right now at new WoS:

    monstermaze-new-WOS.png

    It makes sense, right?

    But...

    Hold on...

    Wait a minute...

    Do you remember when I mentioned, in my original post, that IDs in Martijn's old WoS stopped at 28187? Martijn's old WoS never gave IDs to any ZX81 title! Also new WoS doesn't even contain any ZX81 titles! Where did this ID number come from???

    It turns out this is a new ZXDB ID for the original ZX81 version. You can find this ID in all sites using ZXDB content. Give it a try at SpectrumComputing:

    https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry.php?id=0028617

    Or ZXInfo:

    https://zxinfo.dk/details/0028617

    Or ZX-Art:

    http://zxart.ee/route/lang:eng/type:prod/importOrigin:zxdb/importId:0028617

    Or Spectrum 2.0:

    http://spectrum20.org/games/28617

    Interestingly, Lee Fogarty explicitly stated he would never use new ZXDB IDs. So how can we explain ZXDB IDs misteriously appearing inside new WoS?

    I guess we will never know...
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • OK, I'm tired of playing wack-a-mole** where I point out a new evidence and Lee Fogarty rushes to hide it.

    I'm busy now, but tomorrow I will post one final, more compelling evidence and be done with it.

    Unless I'm given new reason to get back here, that is.


    ** Thanks to the people at SpectrumComputing forum for suggesting this term
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Since we're doing petty nitpicking, it's Whac-A-Mole
  • Since we're doing petty nitpicking, it's Whac-A-Mole
    That’s my mistake, I’m not too good at spelling in general, let alone remembering the spelling of things like this :))

    Mark
  • Since we're doing petty nitpicking, it's Whac-A-Mole

    Thanks for the correction :)
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • polomint wrote: »
    polomint wrote: »
    Is it a civil accusation that involves making you look bad? If so, then please prosecute as I would expect you to.
    If not, shut up.

    So when people are falsely accused, it's wrong to defend themselves? The only acceptable reactions are either prosecute or shut up?

    Really?

    Unfortunately yes, either put up or shut up.;.... I don't agree but that is the way nowadays :(

    Hey @polomint .
    Shut up.
  • Turrican wrote: »
    polomint wrote: »
    polomint wrote: »
    Is it a civil accusation that involves making you look bad? If so, then please prosecute as I would expect you to.
    If not, shut up.

    So when people are falsely accused, it's wrong to defend themselves? The only acceptable reactions are either prosecute or shut up?

    Really?

    Unfortunately yes, either put up or shut up.;.... I don't agree but that is the way nowadays :(

    Hey @polomint .
    Shut up.

    Oh shite, I forgot to :)
    So far, so meh :)
  • Please everybody, let's keep this discussion purely technical.

    Besides, if you guys get this thread locked, I won't have the chance for my final post tomorrow!
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
Sign In or Register to comment.