On 2005-03-24 21:53, chop983 wrote:
but whats rare/codemasters/capcom's excuse?
1) Why do they need an "excuse"? It's their IP.
2) Capcom and Codemasters clearly list their reasons for denying distribution in their permission messages. I assume you bothered to read those before posting your message, so I'm confused as to which bits of their messages you don't understand.
[ This Message was edited by: Philip Kendall on 2005-03-25 00:53 ]
Capcom and Codemasters clearly list their reasons for denying distribution in their permission messages. I assume you bothered to read those before posting your message, so I'm confused as to which bits of their messages you don't understand.
No of course I didn't read their reasons I didn't know they we're available, I'm a lazy newcomer you see, who expect's everything laid out before him on a plate. I just ask in the forum rather that use the site properly.
(I've read then now thanks)
_________________
Winners don't use pokes
<
[ This Message was edited by: chop983 on 2005-03-25 15:24 ]
Oh, no. Every time you turn up something monumental and terrible happens.
I don’t think I have the stomach for it.
--Raziel (Legend of Kain: Soul Reaver 2)
I'm sorry but their reasons are rubbish. Have been, are, and always will be. The links you placed show their POLICY not their REASONS. Capcom says they can't be distributed because they own their rights. Huh... Since when does that qualify as being a reason? It's a legal proposition, not a reason. As for codemasters... well, it just makes me laugh.
I vote for complete and utter banishment of those who deny distribution of their games. If they are still talked about here or anywhere else is because we are an elite who DO know they existed in the first place. As such, I choose to remember those who made their share or profit in the past and now glady place in free distribution their work and even talk about it, discuss it and even upgrade it just for kicks.
The others should never again be named, for if they do not help the community, mind as well get the hell out of here once and for all, namely from even being mentioned at the site. I had their games in my PC, but since I discovered they have this atitude, I not only erased them from it, I publicly tell others to do the same, so that these people are forever forgotten and placed in the limbo of non-existance from where they should have never have surfaced! :evil:
On 2005-03-27 16:57, alban lusitanae wrote:
I vote for complete and utter banishment of those who deny distribution of their games.
And I give you Exhibit A: Zenobi Software. They requested that their games not be distributed, but we (the WoS team) didn't go off in a strop and deny their existence. We maintained civil relations with them, and a bit later, they allowed distribution of their games. Do you really think that would have happened with your policy?
Alban, I can see this really gets to you, but why are you so pi**ed with them, sure it`s unfortunate, more so for things like competitions and Rzx`s which can`t be distributed, so in that respect it does as you say damage the scene, if that isn`t too strong a word... but nobody`s gonna stop playing the games and banish the company`s name from the hallowed halls of WoS...
In fact it`s rather nice the fact that most of us do mention said company`s here, and have at one time or another all had a bit of a moan about the company`s and their policy... If we don`t talk about them, then how on earth can I mention my new Codemasters Dart board :) With pictures of ... ahem...
On 2005-03-27 16:57, alban lusitanae wrote:
I'm sorry but their reasons are rubbish.
Come on Alban. I love emulators and roms but i dont go crying if a particular company doesnt let me illegally play their games.
I can see both sides, eg 20 years old, not worth anything really but on the other hand if i was that creator of that game i might be a bit annoyed if suddenly everyone was playing it for free on the net. Yes its double standards but a lot of things are like that in life.
Either way when you can get them from all other places on the net why are you getting so upset about it ? Its their games they can do what they want whether the reasons are good or bad in your view.
As for that banishment crap you've said are you really serious ?!?!?
Are you going to offer to police the forums and if anyone mentions one of these games they are banned ? Ha ha sounds terrible ! Surely surely you were joking but i didnt spot any smilies at the end !
[ This Message was edited by: psj3809 on 2005-03-29 10:20 ]
Never said it was. Sometimes, some people don't see the forest for the trees. Sometimes, they have to understand some guys just don't take their decisions gladly, even if they are ABSOLUTELY LEGAL, as I said in my post. Being legal was not the point. Being correct with the community is.
These companies don't have to give a reason - they own the copyright & it's up to them to do what they like with it whether we agree or not
Naturally and I know that. Read the above.
Comments such as your do more damage to the scene than a handful of companies denying distribution
Those handful will become all as soon as one or more companies with denied distribution starts having profits from these games again. Just a matter of time. Don't be naive.
I vote we deny them oxygen in retaliation
:lol: I wouldn't go that far. :)
And I give you Exhibit A: Zenobi Software. They requested that their games not be distributed, but we (the WoS team) didn't go off in a strop and deny their existence. We maintained civil relations with them, and a bit later, they allowed distribution of their games. Do you really think that would have happened with your policy?
Do Zenobi still distribute games?
Yes.
they sell cds, go buy 1.
I rest my case, prosecution rests Your Honor :)
but why are you so pi**ed with them
You still ask?! Give me a break...
but nobody`s gonna stop playing the games
...which means I'm a pissed off honest person who rants instead of pirating and the others are pirates having all the fun illegaly without having to worry. Your point being?
Come on Alban. I love emulators and roms but i dont go crying if a particular company doesnt let me illegally play their games
If they let me play them, it's not illegal. That's the point. Someone trying to make money out of something 20 years old is completely patethic in the software context.
We are a community which preserves history and Spectrum Glory. If that is supposed to be locked in a museum to look at and think of all the good times, without using it, there is no point at all of having a bother.
but on the other hand if i was that creator of that game i might be a bit annoyed if suddenly everyone was playing it for free on the net
I don't. I made many images in bitmaps and small wood projects schematics when I was young, and took those to my ancient school so that young like kids could have fun making those objects from wood. My life isn't made around profit and money, there are higher values. I would never make a profit of something like wooden object schematics. But I guess some people who made spectrum games would, I'm sure.
Either way when you can get them from all other places on the net why are you getting so upset about it?
I'm honest. I even deleted MAME from my system, since it's illegal to take roms and as such I have no use for the emulator. Why are we having this discution? Everytime I rant about denied distribution, someone comes up with somewhere they exist for free... What if I don't want to become a full fledged pirate? Is it too much to ask to have some advantage in being honest and people seeing what the right track is?
Its their games they can do what they want whether the reasons are good or bad in your view
Yes, well, that doesn't mean I have to shut up about it. Never will. Latin attitude, sometimes works.
As for that banishment crap you've said are you really serious ?!?!?
Are you going to offer to police the forums and if anyone mentions one of these games they are banned?
As serious can be. I know it won't glue, but that's ok. No problem. :) And I don't police anyone. It was a sugestion. Those who wish to continue to speak about them, sure. Who am I to stop them? :) For my part, I'm not mentioning this company again, as well as codemasters, etc, and for what it seems, activision is following suit. Sooner or later, Ocean is going that way and others will as well (hope I'm wrong, believe me!), placing WoS in dire problems of becoming nothing more than a researchable database.
I love the Speccy and all it meant to me too much to let it be destroyed just because someone thinks they can't still make money out of this. I'm sorry if my opinion hurts anyone's feelings, but it's my opinion.
[ This Message was edited by: alban lusitanae on 2005-03-30 02:53 ]
Ha ha funny reading your replies. Like a child throwing his toys out of the pram. If you had a point then a lot of other people will follow but i'll stick my neck on the line and say that no one else will do what you've done !
Yeah we've gone through a 1000 times why its bad companies deny distribution but i can see both sides. Theres records out there 40 years old you still buy , theyre not free to download even if they might get 1 sale on Napster every 6 months. Thats they way it is.
But whats your true point if they are available out there ? Do the majority of us really care ? Course not. Even newbies i've helped out in the past so no ones losing out here.
You say its completely pathetic in your own view people holding back their games but i can see their point. They've got a right to, yeah we might not all be happy but so ? Worse things happen out there in the big wide world !
Its so easy for you to say what you would do if you were in their position, eg harping on about profit and money but until you are in that position you cant say exactly what you would do.
Ha ha even deleted MAME ? Come on Alban ! Dont start giving me the honest crap. So you've deleted Activision games and MAME and youre suddenly an angel ? Dont make me laugh.
We have the same arguments every few weeks about denied distribution etc and i think by heart we know all the pro's and con's. Yeah other companies may follow suit others wont. At the moment theres a 'boom' in mobile gaming and it seems that everyone thinks they can have a piece of the pie (Eg Paul McKenna). I think once this dies down then it'll go back to normal.
Just the other year they thought we all wanted WAP phones and now video phones which seem to be bombing.
Being legal was not the point. Being correct with the community is.
Being legal and abiding by the owners wishes is the reason that WoS is still here after all this time. That is what the community is about.
Those handful will become all as soon as one or more companies with denied distribution starts having profits from these games again. Just a matter of time. Don't be naive.
And its not naive to expect everyone here to ignore companies & individuals that (at the moment) don't want their property to be freely available?
And I give you Exhibit A: Zenobi Software. They requested that their games not be distributed, but we (the WoS team) didn't go off in a strop and deny their existence. We maintained civil relations with them, and a bit later, they allowed distribution of their games. Do you really think that would have happened with your policy?
Do Zenobi still distribute games?
Yes.
they sell cds, go buy 1.
I rest my case, prosecution rests Your Honor :)
What case? All this shows is that the current attitude is the correct one! This goes against what you have been saying!
Someone trying to make money out of something 20 years old is completely patethic in the software context.
We are a community which preserves history and Spectrum Glory. If that is supposed to be locked in a museum to look at and think of all the good times, without using it, there is no point at all of having a bother.
If there is no point in bothering, why are you here? If I had written something 20 years ago that was good enough to still be marketable today, I would be doing the same!
Besides, WoS is so much more than tzx files. Have a look around.
and for what it seems, activision is following suit. Sooner or later, Ocean is going that way and others will as well (hope I'm wrong, believe me!), placing WoS in dire problems of becoming nothing more than a researchable database.
Wrong. Activision has denied ONE site distribution. WoS works closely with as many copyright owners as possible and, should activision request their titles be removed, then they will be.
What evidence do you have that Ocean are going the same way?? Mark Jones is an active member of these forums and has shown nothing but respect for this community. He has even given loads of carts to AB so that we can ALL see whats on them. If he wanted to, I am sure Retro Gamer would have paid a small fortune for them.
So, should we be ignoring activision & ocean beacause you say they are wrong? Thats a witch hunt.
On 2005-03-30 02:08, alban lusitanae wrote:
Those handful will become all as soon as one or more companies with denied distribution starts having profits from these games again. Just a matter of time. Don't be naive.
And I give you Exhibit A: Zenobi Software. They requested that their games not be distributed, but we (the WoS team) didn't go off in a strop and deny their existence. We maintained civil relations with them, and a bit later, they allowed distribution of their games. Do you really think that would have happened with your policy?
Do Zenobi still distribute games?
Yes.
they sell cds, go buy 1.
I rest my case, prosecution rests Your Honor :)
You're of course referring to your first point where one company starts to make a bit of money selling CDs, and soon after all companies start doing that.
Nice theory, but for the simple fact that all Zenobi games are available for free download from this very site! Yes, it's true. Did you bother to look?
Well, as for denied software - yes, it would ne nice if they did allow us to download them, but they don't. You can't stop them from making that decision, and it is their *right* to do so.
If you complain then not only are you abusing those rights, but you're one step away from advocating piracy of those games and ensuring that when they see that kind of behaviour then *everyone* will start denying games.
How are we ever going to convince them otherwise if all you do is bang on and whinge about it? If we're not seen to be law-abiding (Mr McKenna aside - we all had a moan about that one) then others will follow their lead.
If you complain then not only are you abusing those rights, but you're one step away from advocating piracy of those games and ensuring that when they see that kind of behaviour then *everyone* will start denying games
You got to be kidding me! So by complaining about something I disagree, I'm breaking the LAW?! What planet do you come from?!
I never advocated piracy! Never! I'm ranting because since I'm honest I think it doesn't make sense to ask for money of something that only some people make the effort to talk about and preserve.
And it's incredible that when someone disagrees with an option (in this case, games being denied), someone says that we're inducing piracy and breaking the law! Read my post again and make sure to read the part where I say this:
These companies don't have to give a reason - they own the copyright & it's up to them to do what they like with it whether we agree or not
Naturally and I know that.
So, I say they have all the right in the world to do this legally, and that is their option to do this. Never said it was illegal. Only said I disagree with their option.
Since I see that people connect what is legal with shuting up and never saying anything about it or disagreeing, then that's fine. Trust me, I won't bother making any more points about this ever again. Why? Disagreeing and thinking for one self and having our own opinions is subject to censorship. No point whatsoever.
Comments
1) Why do they need an "excuse"? It's their IP.
2) Capcom and Codemasters clearly list their reasons for denying distribution in their permission messages. I assume you bothered to read those before posting your message, so I'm confused as to which bits of their messages you don't understand.
[ This Message was edited by: Philip Kendall on 2005-03-25 00:53 ]
No of course I didn't read their reasons I didn't know they we're available, I'm a lazy newcomer you see, who expect's everything laid out before him on a plate. I just ask in the forum rather that use the site properly.
(I've read then now thanks)
_________________
Winners don't use pokes
<
[ This Message was edited by: chop983 on 2005-03-25 15:24 ]
If you did mess up the subject title then edit the original.
Surely you can find banned games if you wanted them ?? (Obviously cant post urls)
I'm NOT asking here I already have them I was just curious about why their denied
the subject title of the thread was meant as a joke.
Now includes the Odin/Thor too.
D.
http://www.zx-spectrum.cz
I don’t think I have the stomach for it.
--Raziel (Legend of Kain: Soul Reaver 2)
https://www.youtube.com/user/VincentTSFP
Shiver yer own timbers. Pervert.
misteaksmistrakesmisyaleserrurs— oh, sod it.I vote for complete and utter banishment of those who deny distribution of their games. If they are still talked about here or anywhere else is because we are an elite who DO know they existed in the first place. As such, I choose to remember those who made their share or profit in the past and now glady place in free distribution their work and even talk about it, discuss it and even upgrade it just for kicks.
The others should never again be named, for if they do not help the community, mind as well get the hell out of here once and for all, namely from even being mentioned at the site. I had their games in my PC, but since I discovered they have this atitude, I not only erased them from it, I publicly tell others to do the same, so that these people are forever forgotten and placed in the limbo of non-existance from where they should have never have surfaced! :evil:
These companies don't have to give a reason - they own the copyright & it's up to them to do what they like with it whether we agree or not.
Comments such as your do more damage to the scene than a handful of companies denying distribution.
And I give you Exhibit A: Zenobi Software. They requested that their games not be distributed, but we (the WoS team) didn't go off in a strop and deny their existence. We maintained civil relations with them, and a bit later, they allowed distribution of their games. Do you really think that would have happened with your policy?
go buy 1
In fact it`s rather nice the fact that most of us do mention said company`s here, and have at one time or another all had a bit of a moan about the company`s and their policy... If we don`t talk about them, then how on earth can I mention my new Codemasters Dart board :) With pictures of ... ahem...
Since nobody ever has any idea what (if anything) you are on about, that's hardly surprising. :p
misteaksmistrakesmisyaleserrurs— oh, sod it.Come on Alban. I love emulators and roms but i dont go crying if a particular company doesnt let me illegally play their games.
I can see both sides, eg 20 years old, not worth anything really but on the other hand if i was that creator of that game i might be a bit annoyed if suddenly everyone was playing it for free on the net. Yes its double standards but a lot of things are like that in life.
Either way when you can get them from all other places on the net why are you getting so upset about it ? Its their games they can do what they want whether the reasons are good or bad in your view.
As for that banishment crap you've said are you really serious ?!?!?
Are you going to offer to police the forums and if anyone mentions one of these games they are banned ? Ha ha sounds terrible ! Surely surely you were joking but i didnt spot any smilies at the end !
[ This Message was edited by: psj3809 on 2005-03-29 10:20 ]
Never said it was. Sometimes, some people don't see the forest for the trees. Sometimes, they have to understand some guys just don't take their decisions gladly, even if they are ABSOLUTELY LEGAL, as I said in my post. Being legal was not the point. Being correct with the community is.
Naturally and I know that. Read the above.
Those handful will become all as soon as one or more companies with denied distribution starts having profits from these games again. Just a matter of time. Don't be naive.
:lol: I wouldn't go that far. :)
I rest my case, prosecution rests Your Honor :)
You still ask?! Give me a break...
...which means I'm a pissed off honest person who rants instead of pirating and the others are pirates having all the fun illegaly without having to worry. Your point being?
If they let me play them, it's not illegal. That's the point. Someone trying to make money out of something 20 years old is completely patethic in the software context.
We are a community which preserves history and Spectrum Glory. If that is supposed to be locked in a museum to look at and think of all the good times, without using it, there is no point at all of having a bother.
I don't. I made many images in bitmaps and small wood projects schematics when I was young, and took those to my ancient school so that young like kids could have fun making those objects from wood. My life isn't made around profit and money, there are higher values. I would never make a profit of something like wooden object schematics. But I guess some people who made spectrum games would, I'm sure.
I'm honest. I even deleted MAME from my system, since it's illegal to take roms and as such I have no use for the emulator. Why are we having this discution? Everytime I rant about denied distribution, someone comes up with somewhere they exist for free... What if I don't want to become a full fledged pirate? Is it too much to ask to have some advantage in being honest and people seeing what the right track is?
Yes, well, that doesn't mean I have to shut up about it. Never will. Latin attitude, sometimes works.
As serious can be. I know it won't glue, but that's ok. No problem. :) And I don't police anyone. It was a sugestion. Those who wish to continue to speak about them, sure. Who am I to stop them? :) For my part, I'm not mentioning this company again, as well as codemasters, etc, and for what it seems, activision is following suit. Sooner or later, Ocean is going that way and others will as well (hope I'm wrong, believe me!), placing WoS in dire problems of becoming nothing more than a researchable database.
I love the Speccy and all it meant to me too much to let it be destroyed just because someone thinks they can't still make money out of this. I'm sorry if my opinion hurts anyone's feelings, but it's my opinion.
[ This Message was edited by: alban lusitanae on 2005-03-30 02:53 ]
Yeah we've gone through a 1000 times why its bad companies deny distribution but i can see both sides. Theres records out there 40 years old you still buy , theyre not free to download even if they might get 1 sale on Napster every 6 months. Thats they way it is.
But whats your true point if they are available out there ? Do the majority of us really care ? Course not. Even newbies i've helped out in the past so no ones losing out here.
You say its completely pathetic in your own view people holding back their games but i can see their point. They've got a right to, yeah we might not all be happy but so ? Worse things happen out there in the big wide world !
Its so easy for you to say what you would do if you were in their position, eg harping on about profit and money but until you are in that position you cant say exactly what you would do.
Ha ha even deleted MAME ? Come on Alban ! Dont start giving me the honest crap. So you've deleted Activision games and MAME and youre suddenly an angel ? Dont make me laugh.
We have the same arguments every few weeks about denied distribution etc and i think by heart we know all the pro's and con's. Yeah other companies may follow suit others wont. At the moment theres a 'boom' in mobile gaming and it seems that everyone thinks they can have a piece of the pie (Eg Paul McKenna). I think once this dies down then it'll go back to normal.
Just the other year they thought we all wanted WAP phones and now video phones which seem to be bombing.
I wouldnt worry too much about it at all.
You're of course referring to your first point where one company starts to make a bit of money selling CDs, and soon after all companies start doing that.
Nice theory, but for the simple fact that all Zenobi games are available for free download from this very site! Yes, it's true. Did you bother to look?
Well, as for denied software - yes, it would ne nice if they did allow us to download them, but they don't. You can't stop them from making that decision, and it is their *right* to do so.
If you complain then not only are you abusing those rights, but you're one step away from advocating piracy of those games and ensuring that when they see that kind of behaviour then *everyone* will start denying games.
How are we ever going to convince them otherwise if all you do is bang on and whinge about it? If we're not seen to be law-abiding (Mr McKenna aside - we all had a moan about that one) then others will follow their lead.
D.
You got to be kidding me! So by complaining about something I disagree, I'm breaking the LAW?! What planet do you come from?!
I never advocated piracy! Never! I'm ranting because since I'm honest I think it doesn't make sense to ask for money of something that only some people make the effort to talk about and preserve.
And it's incredible that when someone disagrees with an option (in this case, games being denied), someone says that we're inducing piracy and breaking the law! Read my post again and make sure to read the part where I say this:
So, I say they have all the right in the world to do this legally, and that is their option to do this. Never said it was illegal. Only said I disagree with their option.
Since I see that people connect what is legal with shuting up and never saying anything about it or disagreeing, then that's fine. Trust me, I won't bother making any more points about this ever again. Why? Disagreeing and thinking for one self and having our own opinions is subject to censorship. No point whatsoever.
Please do not feed the troll.
Thanks,
The Management.
[Edit: correct 'fee[B]l[/B]' to 'fee[B]d[/B]'. Although the original was somewhat funnier :) ]
[ This Message was edited by: Philip Kendall on 2005-03-30 21:44 ]