On 2005-07-14 11:53, karingal wrote:
But the programmers were far more inventive with it than the C64 and it ain't in a horrible beige/brown box and have blocky graphics...
Oh yeah, that's why thousands of programming tricks exist on C64 while the only real trickery on Speccy apart from plain programming is "multicolor" which doesn't even work on all Spectrums...
Spoken like a man who's never coded on a Spectrum...
So, tell me, why do 98% of the games have "blocky graphics" (which they do) if the c64 had high-res mode with colour abilities? Probably b'cos it would look similar to the Speccy graphics and so they went with the more-colours-sod-the-resolution idea?
Pretty much. The rest of the world likes colour, and you can get some pretty good results with multicolour mode.
Later on, people started using sprite overlays for the main character in the game, which means having a multicolour sprite with a hires sprite on top to add definition. So, for the sprites at least, you can have the equivalent of 320x200 multicolour.
Its only a loss in X resolution, and the careful artist can get some pretty good results - eg
Meh, I guess its personal. Personally Id take the colour over 2 colour stuff anyday. I do think saying that the c64 graphics are weaker because you have a choice of modes is a bit far fetched though :)
Thats what i find even more sad, not that hes gay or anything (each to their own) but the fact he looks practically identical to Jeff ! What are the chances of that !!!
But the programmers were far more inventive with it than the C64
What about all of those US Gold titles that were released for the C64(and Atari 800)? - The Speccy did have some inventive 'bedroom' programmers but the C64 also had a lot of support from America.
On 2005-07-14 12:44, devnull wrote:
Meh, I guess its personal. Personally Id take the colour over 2 colour stuff anyday. I do think saying that the c64 graphics are weaker because you have a choice of modes is a bit far fetched though :)
No, I'm saying that claiming c64 graphics is superior because it has choice of two modes is far fetched! :)
I suppose it's a case of looking at a half full/empty glass of water. ;)
All right, I think we've flogged the matter to death enough. :D Been a pretty entertaining thread though (for me anyway)! Cheers!
No, I'm saying that claiming c64 graphics is superior because it has choice of two modes is far fetched! :)
wow, I wished I lived in the land of your logic :) So, the c64 offers a better hires resolution than speccy, the choice of multicolour mode, completely independent MOBs...... and its *not* superior to a 256x192 framebuffer tied to a z80? :)
Are Amiga graphics better than speccy? Im just searching to the line where reality hits home :)
On 2005-07-14 15:14, devnull wrote:
wow, I wished I lived in the land of your logic :) So, the c64 offers a better hires resolution than speccy, the choice of multicolour mode, completely independent MOBs...... and its *not* superior to a 256x192 framebuffer tied to a z80? :)
Simple logic. You said pretty much everyone prefers more colours than anything, which is why 98% of the games have the chunky-mode-but-more-colour mode. Which, IMO, is not much of an improvement over the Speccy (the rest of the world prefers high res to chunky mode) graphics. That leaves us with the *other* high res mode which is similar to the Speccy's, but still not superior to it. So there!
On 2005-07-14 15:14, devnull wrote:
wow, I wished I lived in the land of your logic :) So, the c64 offers a better hires resolution than speccy, the choice of multicolour mode, completely independent MOBs...... and its *not* superior to a 256x192 framebuffer tied to a z80? :)
Simple logic. You said pretty much everyone prefers more colours than anything, which is why 98% of the games have the chunky-mode-but-more-colour mode. Which, IMO, is not much of an improvement over the Speccy (the rest of the world prefers high res to chunky mode) graphics. That leaves us with the *other* high res mode which is similar to the Speccy's, but still not superior to it. So there!
except that 320 > 256 and 200 > 192 - and the offer of choice has to be a positive thing.
On 2005-07-14 16:07, Arjun wrote:
That leaves us with the *other* high res mode which is similar to the Speccy's, but still not superior to it. So there!
Not superior? It offers a larger area and has more freedom on color choice... PLUS you can reduce the color cell size to 8x1 with some register trickery which works on ALL c64 models including the c128. Also you forgot that besides the hires bitmap mode there is also a hires character mode...
While some of the banter in this thread is amusing and informative, it really scares me that some people actually CARE which computer is the 'better' computer.
Don't you realize that by putting everything into a linear scale of value, you're missing the whole point?
On 2005-07-14 17:07, beanz wrote:
Well we failed to decided on Technical, we failed to decide on graphics, we failed to decide on games, we failed to decided on processor...
all that is left is a 'celebrity' boxing match.
C64 with its huge beige and heavy set body would kick the ass of speccy (4 eyes) any day of the week.
I don't think that would happen. Your C64 will bounce off my rubber keys & smack you in the face.
Anyway the argument was "the C64 has blocky graphics" and not "the C64 games have blocky graphics".
And I suppose c64 game programmers are fools to use blocy graphics when c64 doesn't have blocky graphics (as you claim)? Hmm.. I can understand that!
Blocky like this?
Enjoying in this flame is one thing, but distend him on this childish way is really sad.
This is examples couple of C64 games which i mention before (Robocop, The Untouchables, Renegade 3, Microprose Soccer and Daley Thompsons Olympic Challenge).
On 2005-07-14 17:46, Arcane Design wrote:
While some of the banter in this thread is amusing and informative, it really scares me that some people actually CARE which computer is the 'better' computer.
Don't you realize that by putting everything into a linear scale of value, you're missing the whole point?
You probably right, but dont forget how this thread begins, with title "Sinclair Zx Spectrum: Absolutely Better Than Commodore 64"
This sentence tells pretty much about members of Spectrum church here, and many people just reacting on this, even they like Spectrum same as C64.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegaz on 2005-07-14 20:15 ]
On 2005-07-14 17:46, Arcane Design wrote:
While some of the banter in this thread is amusing and informative, it really scares me that some people actually CARE which computer is the 'better' computer.
Don't you realize that by putting everything into a linear scale of value, you're missing the whole point?
You probably right, but dont forget how this thread begins, with title "Sinclair Zx Spectrum: Absolutely Better Than Commodore 64"
This sentence tells pretty much about members of Spectrum church here, and many people just reacting on this, even they like Spectrum same as C64.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegaz on 2005-07-14 20:15 ]
Now don't be silly and don't offend the people in here and their intelligence - the title of the thread, which, you should notice, is placed between two quotation marks, is simply the title of the article linked in the first post - which has been written by a guy which never posted here and, hence, don't belong to this community.
A line quoted between two quotation marks is not a statement itself, but it's the reporting of somebody's statement.
And I think I know: I am the one that opened this thread.
Try to think better before writing, next time.
[ This Message was edited by: WhenIWasCruel on 2005-07-14 20:56 ]
Bah, nothing wrong with competition, its what made the human race what it is today. Lets not have any of that 'why cant we all get along' or 'its not the winning its the taking part' namby pamby attitude.
There has to be a winner, we dont watch the FA cup final or the olympics and switch it off 10 mins from the end.
C64 - Gold,
Speccy - Silver
Small furry creature from Alpha Centuri - Bronze
[ This Message was edited by: beanz on 2005-07-14 22:10 ]
On 2005-07-14 20:13, Pegaz wrote:
You probably right, but dont forget how this thread begins, with title "Sinclair Zx Spectrum: Absolutely Better Than Commodore 64"
This sentence tells pretty much about members of Spectrum church here, and many people just reacting on this, even they like Spectrum same as C64.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegaz on 2005-07-14 20:15 ]
Now don't be silly and don't offend the people in here and their intelligence - the title of the thread, which, you should notice, is placed between two quotation marks, is simply the title of the article linked in the first post - which has been written by a guy which never posted here and, hence, don't belong to this community.
A line quoted between two quotation marks is not a statement itself, but it's the reporting of somebody's statement.
And I think I know: I am the one that opened this thread.
Try to think better before writing, next time.
Oh really, two quotes explain everything. And this text is placed in title, just by accident and he "not a statement itself".
Dont make me laugh, thats cheap excuse is much more offensive than anything i read here.
And becouse you like to share advices, there is one for you.
Next time, speak only in your own name, not for all people here.
On 2005-07-14 20:13, Pegaz wrote:
You probably right, but dont forget how this thread begins, with title "Sinclair Zx Spectrum: Absolutely Better Than Commodore 64"
This sentence tells pretty much about members of Spectrum church here, and many people just reacting on this, even they like Spectrum same as C64.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegaz on 2005-07-14 20:15 ]
Now don't be silly and don't offend the people in here and their intelligence - the title of the thread, which, you should notice, is placed between two quotation marks, is simply the title of the article linked in the first post - which has been written by a guy which never posted here and, hence, don't belong to this community.
A line quoted between two quotation marks is not a statement itself, but it's the reporting of somebody's statement.
And I think I know: I am the one that opened this thread.
Try to think better before writing, next time.
Oh really, two quotes explain everything. And this text is placed in title, just by accident and he "not a statement itself".
Dont make me laugh, thats cheap excuse is much more offensive than anything i read here.
And becouse you like to share advices, there is one for you.
Next time, speak only in your own name, not for all people here.
Your attitude is more offensive than anything I've read here, if you bothered to read the article to which the 1st post refers you would discover that it is the title of the article and not the opinion of the poster. The excuse is not cheap but valid, in fact it's not even an excuse or even pretending to be such.
Seeing as this is a Spectrum forum do you not think the bias would be towards the Spectrum? He is speaking for over 90% of regular posters on these forums but you're too busy trying to work out ways the C64 screen isn't blocky to realise.
As for your advice I don't think anyone would want to be taking advice from you.
I find all this talk about the relative technical abilities of each computer totally irrelevent. It's a matter of opinion only. Yes you can try to back yourself up by quoting specifications, but to what end? For example, the latest blockbuster films use cgi to the extreme these days. However, that does not make them good films by any means.
The title of the post says Speccy absolutely better than the c64. Opinion stated. case closed.
On 2005-07-14 22:09, beanz wrote:
Lets not have any of that 'why cant we all get along' or 'its not the winning its the taking part' namby pamby attitude.
Spoken like a true american !! Perhaps if we did all get along the world would be a much calmer place. Ohhh bit political !
On 2005-07-15 10:32, Pegaz wrote:
Unfortunatly i still like to speak only for my self.
If you only like to speak for yourself, then it's quite contradictory that you refer to others in general terms like "the church of the Speccy". (Please note the quotation marks - these are not my words.)
On 2005-07-14 22:09, beanz wrote:
Lets not have any of that 'why cant we all get along' or 'its not the winning its the taking part' namby pamby attitude.
Spoken like a true american !! Perhaps if we did all get along the world would be a much calmer place. Ohhh bit political !
Except I'm not American, I'm English born and bred and lived there for 30 yrs before moving here...try again.
On 2005-07-15 10:32, Pegaz wrote:
Unfortunatly i still like to speak only for my self.
If you only like to speak for yourself, then it's quite contradictory that you refer to others in general terms like "the church of the Speccy". (Please note the quotation marks - these are not my words.)
Maybe looks like that, but i say "members" which mean some of Speccy fans acting like that, not all.
And yes, thats still my oppinion after i read this thread couple times.
Personally, I love both machine and not have problem to aceppt theirs limitation.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegaz on 2005-07-15 15:33 ]
Comments
Pretty much. The rest of the world likes colour, and you can get some pretty good results with multicolour mode.
Later on, people started using sprite overlays for the main character in the game, which means having a multicolour sprite with a hires sprite on top to add definition. So, for the sprites at least, you can have the equivalent of 320x200 multicolour.
Its only a loss in X resolution, and the careful artist can get some pretty good results - eg
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=411&d=18&h=0
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=17610&d=18&h=0
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=8753&d=18&h=0
Meh, I guess its personal. Personally Id take the colour over 2 colour stuff anyday. I do think saying that the c64 graphics are weaker because you have a choice of modes is a bit far fetched though :)
No, he means Jeff 'my boyfriend is actually my clone' Minter.
Reckon hes a crazed obsessed Minter fan
What about all of those US Gold titles that were released for the C64(and Atari 800)? - The Speccy did have some inventive 'bedroom' programmers but the C64 also had a lot of support from America.
No, I'm saying that claiming c64 graphics is superior because it has choice of two modes is far fetched! :)
I suppose it's a case of looking at a half full/empty glass of water. ;)
All right, I think we've flogged the matter to death enough. :D Been a pretty entertaining thread though (for me anyway)! Cheers!
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
wow, I wished I lived in the land of your logic :) So, the c64 offers a better hires resolution than speccy, the choice of multicolour mode, completely independent MOBs...... and its *not* superior to a 256x192 framebuffer tied to a z80? :)
Are Amiga graphics better than speccy? Im just searching to the line where reality hits home :)
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/gfx/releases/17000/17512.gif
Ha!
[ This Message was edited by: Hema! on 2005-07-14 15:27 ]
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
except that 320 > 256 and 200 > 192 - and the offer of choice has to be a positive thing.
still, nice logic! :)
all that is left is a 'celebrity' boxing match.
C64 with its huge beige and heavy set body would kick the ass of speccy (4 eyes) any day of the week.
Don't you realize that by putting everything into a linear scale of value, you're missing the whole point?
I don't think that would happen. Your C64 will bounce off my rubber keys & smack you in the face.
Blocky like this?
Enjoying in this flame is one thing, but distend him on this childish way is really sad.
This is examples couple of C64 games which i mention before (Robocop, The Untouchables, Renegade 3, Microprose Soccer and Daley Thompsons Olympic Challenge).
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=6415&d=18&h=0
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=8322&d=18&h=0
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=6302&d=18&h=0
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=4802&d=18&h=0
http://s64.emuunlim.com/gameinfos/daleythompsonsolympicchallenge/daleythompsonsolympicchallenge.htm
And same games in Spectrum version:
http://cpczone.emuunlim.com/gamebase/index.php?game=738 (scroll down the page to see Spectrum and C64 version)
http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/theuntouchables.htm
http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/renegadeiii.htm
http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/microprosesoccer.htm
http://www.mobygames.com/game/zx-spectrum/daley-thompsons-olympic-challenge/screenshots/gameShotId,116282/
Everybody can see the difference in C64 benefit, because picture much worth than thousand words.
http://zx-pk.ru/
You probably right, but dont forget how this thread begins, with title "Sinclair Zx Spectrum: Absolutely Better Than Commodore 64"
This sentence tells pretty much about members of Spectrum church here, and many people just reacting on this, even they like Spectrum same as C64.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegaz on 2005-07-14 20:15 ]
http://zx-pk.ru/
Now don't be silly and don't offend the people in here and their intelligence - the title of the thread, which, you should notice, is placed between two quotation marks, is simply the title of the article linked in the first post - which has been written by a guy which never posted here and, hence, don't belong to this community.
A line quoted between two quotation marks is not a statement itself, but it's the reporting of somebody's statement.
And I think I know: I am the one that opened this thread.
Try to think better before writing, next time.
[ This Message was edited by: WhenIWasCruel on 2005-07-14 20:56 ]
There has to be a winner, we dont watch the FA cup final or the olympics and switch it off 10 mins from the end.
C64 - Gold,
Speccy - Silver
Small furry creature from Alpha Centuri - Bronze
[ This Message was edited by: beanz on 2005-07-14 22:10 ]
Oh really, two quotes explain everything. And this text is placed in title, just by accident and he "not a statement itself".
Dont make me laugh, thats cheap excuse is much more offensive than anything i read here.
And becouse you like to share advices, there is one for you.
Next time, speak only in your own name, not for all people here.
http://zx-pk.ru/
No way! Small furry creature from Alpha Centauri doesnt have colour clash!
and the processor is faster!
Seeing as this is a Spectrum forum do you not think the bias would be towards the Spectrum? He is speaking for over 90% of regular posters on these forums but you're too busy trying to work out ways the C64 screen isn't blocky to realise.
As for your advice I don't think anyone would want to be taking advice from you.
The title of the post says Speccy absolutely better than the c64. Opinion stated. case closed.
More beige than bronze...? (Sorry for not stirring for a couple of days, been a bit poorly. =-)
Spoken like a true american !! Perhaps if we did all get along the world would be a much calmer place. Ohhh bit political !
Of course, but different oppinion is not forbiden, i hope.
Over 90 percent? I am impressed and finaly overwhelm with that irrefutable facts. :)
Unfortunatly i still like to speak only for my self.
Interesting, becouse i want to say exactly the same thing to you. :)
http://zx-pk.ru/
Except I'm not American, I'm English born and bred and lived there for 30 yrs before moving here...try again.
Maybe looks like that, but i say "members" which mean some of Speccy fans acting like that, not all.
And yes, thats still my oppinion after i read this thread couple times.
Personally, I love both machine and not have problem to aceppt theirs limitation.
[ This Message was edited by: Pegaz on 2005-07-15 15:33 ]
http://zx-pk.ru/