Why are there no Speccy tune remixe(r)s?
In the past, I made a couple of posts on this boards which hinted at the whole SLAY Radio/remix.kwed/C64 audio thingy which is mostly breadbox related.
First, let me tell you that I've never owned a C64 in my life, neither do I try to deliberately advertise that radio station and the people surrounding it (even though I think you definitely should give it a try ;)). So, I shall now briefly illustrate my background.
I had a 48k Speccy since the mid-80s and a +2 since 1987. My brother had an Amstrad CPC, and of course (this being Germany) pretty much everyone else had a C64.
Thus, I grew up with the best of 3 worlds, as I played tons of games on my Speccy back in the day, saw plenty of the CPC versions which often had the same background music as the Speccy 128 versions, and also got loads of exposure to the dreaded breadbox when visiting a classmate at home, where I sometimes came across the same music again, but there were of course many C64 games which had a tune where the Speccy had nothing, especially with pre-128k games.
Nowadays, I really enjoy getting my regular blast from the past by listening to the latest remixes and tuning in to the SLAY Radio live shows. Amongst the hundreds of remixes, there are some real gems.
But then, remixes of the various Last Ninja sub-tunes or most of Chris Huelsbeck's compositions won't ring the nostalgic bell for fanatical Speccy users who avoided the C64 like the plague, while remixes of tunes from games like Saboteur 2, Bionic Commando, Thundercats, Glider Rider, Auf Wiedersehen Monty or Nemesis the Warlock might do. Those examples are just a few random ones where I know the melody itself is the same for the Speccy and the breadbin.
Now to the point of my post - we all know the Speccy's beeper did not exactly make people want to compose tunes on it, despite some excellent efforts by Whittaker, Follin and Co.; with the 128k Speccy, things became better (even though all the commercially published music programs in the 80s were utter bollocks, nothing decent until the polish Soundtracker by BZYK came along in 1990 or so), but in my opinion the AY is not on par with the SID. But please, we had this discussion SID vs. AY already, let's not turn this topic into another one.
What I'm trying to get at is why the Speccy (or the Amstrad) scene never spawned a game tune remix scene like the one we have now with the breadbox.
Is it due to the SID chip which was there for the C64 right from the start and very powerful too, so some kids started messing around with it pretty early and got into the remixing thing later on, while on the Speccy not much happened in that department? Of course, we DO have a couple of guys who do excellent remakes of the games, but on the music front it's all quiet. And I'm not talking about remixing "real" music on the Speccy here.
I'm not sure how many Spectrum-only tunes there are, and which of those may be worth remixing. One must bear in mind not all tunes are suitable for remixing. I'm just thinking how it could sound if someone who knows what he/she is doing did, for example Agent-X or Cronos.
Now please share your thoughts on why this didn't happen on the Speccy scene despite having often identical tunes in the games? Why don't we have a Makke, a Glyn R Brown, a Romeo Knight or Machinae Supremacy?
First, let me tell you that I've never owned a C64 in my life, neither do I try to deliberately advertise that radio station and the people surrounding it (even though I think you definitely should give it a try ;)). So, I shall now briefly illustrate my background.
I had a 48k Speccy since the mid-80s and a +2 since 1987. My brother had an Amstrad CPC, and of course (this being Germany) pretty much everyone else had a C64.
Thus, I grew up with the best of 3 worlds, as I played tons of games on my Speccy back in the day, saw plenty of the CPC versions which often had the same background music as the Speccy 128 versions, and also got loads of exposure to the dreaded breadbox when visiting a classmate at home, where I sometimes came across the same music again, but there were of course many C64 games which had a tune where the Speccy had nothing, especially with pre-128k games.
Nowadays, I really enjoy getting my regular blast from the past by listening to the latest remixes and tuning in to the SLAY Radio live shows. Amongst the hundreds of remixes, there are some real gems.
But then, remixes of the various Last Ninja sub-tunes or most of Chris Huelsbeck's compositions won't ring the nostalgic bell for fanatical Speccy users who avoided the C64 like the plague, while remixes of tunes from games like Saboteur 2, Bionic Commando, Thundercats, Glider Rider, Auf Wiedersehen Monty or Nemesis the Warlock might do. Those examples are just a few random ones where I know the melody itself is the same for the Speccy and the breadbin.
Now to the point of my post - we all know the Speccy's beeper did not exactly make people want to compose tunes on it, despite some excellent efforts by Whittaker, Follin and Co.; with the 128k Speccy, things became better (even though all the commercially published music programs in the 80s were utter bollocks, nothing decent until the polish Soundtracker by BZYK came along in 1990 or so), but in my opinion the AY is not on par with the SID. But please, we had this discussion SID vs. AY already, let's not turn this topic into another one.
What I'm trying to get at is why the Speccy (or the Amstrad) scene never spawned a game tune remix scene like the one we have now with the breadbox.
Is it due to the SID chip which was there for the C64 right from the start and very powerful too, so some kids started messing around with it pretty early and got into the remixing thing later on, while on the Speccy not much happened in that department? Of course, we DO have a couple of guys who do excellent remakes of the games, but on the music front it's all quiet. And I'm not talking about remixing "real" music on the Speccy here.
I'm not sure how many Spectrum-only tunes there are, and which of those may be worth remixing. One must bear in mind not all tunes are suitable for remixing. I'm just thinking how it could sound if someone who knows what he/she is doing did, for example Agent-X or Cronos.
Now please share your thoughts on why this didn't happen on the Speccy scene despite having often identical tunes in the games? Why don't we have a Makke, a Glyn R Brown, a Romeo Knight or Machinae Supremacy?
Post edited by XTM of TMG on
Comments
Write games in C using Z88DK and SP1
As i mentioned in another thread, i've done a few speccy remixes, and a do plan to do more one day when i have the time.... preferably an album of beeper remixes and an album of AY3 remixes. I've also used a couple of small speccy samples in the album i've just produced for the band Arthur & Martha.
i have always throught it a pity i've no dedicated site on which to post my speccy remixes though.
As for why there are less remixes of ZX tunes than for other platforms... I couldn't say. Perhaps people on the ZX scene prefer to use the real thing rather than loading up some big sequencer on an overpowered PC and doing something that's already been done. There are plenty of great tunes still coming out on the ZX (both AY chip and recently Beeper-tunes), so it's not like the music scene is dead. It's priorities just lie elsewhere.
*ahem* over-generalisation and unneccessary belittling imho. i think most people do remixes because they want to hear a fresh interpretation of a good tune, not because they are looking to replace the previous version. A lot of casual listeners are unlikely to want to hear beeps alone, no matter how well programmed. I like the original stuff myself, but of course i see the merits of remixes too.
it seems hardly surprising however that the speccy scene should be more "original sound" orientated. We all got used to the harsher tones of *even* the beeper, so i suspect such speccy users are just "that bit more hardcore" :)
also DeliPlayer is a good choice for playing your trackered AY / beeper tunes in.... you get lots of other filetypes supported too. (although i question the accuracy of it's OctaMED playback!)
I didn't intend to generalise too much, or belittle (tho' that's rarely unnecessary). Indeed, I have a few Remix CD's I think (C64 ones). I kinda meant that most game music was pretty much the same from platform-to-platform, albeit different interpretations due to the hardware differences. However, it would be interesting to hear remixes of non-game music as I would think this would provide a greater base of original music to pick from. Take for example Gasman's version of Freedom, a track by LaesQ (tho' I couldn't tell you if it was copied by LaesQ from somewhere) - it's bloody lovely.
Hmm.
To be honest I only wrote anything on this thread to point out a way to get AY tunes into WAVs. Hehe.
i'd welcome remixes of non-game tunes, but my only problem is i probably wouldnt know the original tunes! (part of the enjoyment for me is to hear a re-interpretation of a tune i've known for years)
maybe i would be happy with that when we have decent remixes of Saboteur, Athena, Mask 3, Game Over 2 Part 2, Heartland, I-Ball 2, Where Time Stood Still, Fairlight 2, and the much-better /dirtier speccy version of Bruce Lee!
damn i've a lot of remixing to do!
http://www.aonz38.dsl.pipex.com/signalpart3.mp3
About 5 years ago.. Maybe I'll do some more some time...
It's more like I just used a huge sample for it as the basis actually, but there ya go.
But hasn't it come across your mind that those old game tunes are usually only accessible to a minority? There are some really good compositions out there which are pretty much forgotten, lost in the mists of time. Nowadays they will be enjoyed only by the few who still remember them from the heyday. Remixers revive those tunes and can make them available to people who did not hear them first time round.
And let's not forget that we grew up with this stuff in it's original form, so WE can "stomach" the beepy tunes, but other people may not get into them. Just as Hungry Horace wrote: A lot of casual listeners are unlikely to want to hear beeps alone, no matter how well programmed.
Hence, some people might listen to and like a remixed version of a great melody which they possibly may not have gotten into in it's original format (Philistines? We can't blame some people for not having been born in, say, 1970).
I also believe a tune can be improved greatly if the remixer has good musical talent.
Let me take Mastertronic's "Spellbound" as an example. It's a very good Rob Hubbard tune which I already loved back then - you can download the AY file in the WOS archive if you haven't heard it before (the 128k labeled tap/tzx files on here don't seem to play the AY music, I tried out both with Spectaculator acting as a +2 and only got the multichannel beeper variant).
There have been a couple of excellent remixes of the Spellbound tune, like those by Thomas Detert, devilhood or Visa R?ster (a-capella band), and they improve a lot on the already good melody.
Or take Glyn R Brown, who has done some fantastic orchestral renditions of game tunes.
I can perfectly understand what you're saying here, but over the years I have noticed that it's simply *good* music itself which will grow on you, even if you haven't heard it back then. Take "Light Force". That was a good game on the Speccy, notable for it's excellent scrolling and full colour graphics and it received good reviews for that. The Speccy version did however not have a tune. I came across various remixes of the C64 version's tune in the last few years, and it's a melody I like very much, despite not having any nostalgic feelings for it. I feel the same for a lot of other tunes I never heard back in the day.
Incidentally, I have a mate who is 20 years old. He was looking for something to listen to, so I gave him the link to that site which hosts all the remixes. He went to go and download a few, I gave him some personal recommendations, he downloaded a few more ... what can I say, he's now hooked on the stuff, despite having never played any of the games on any of the 8-bitters.
My opinion is that remixing is a good cause as it keeps the legacy of the 8-bitters alive and I see it as one way for younger people to get access to what we're doing here with the prospect of them developing an interest in what it is all about (I'm not talking about the retro bandwagon jumpers who try to cash in on old stuff). Unless it's some annoying pricks, or trolls, like usspeccyfan and the like, of course ...
Good remixes of speccy tunes are hard to come by as there aren't many sites out there that host them, www.speccy.cz, for example. It's a shame really, as there are some great peices of music that deserve a good remix (Thundercats, a rock version :p). Still, i'm sure more will come over time.
Quality tune that Chutney one :)