When there are no more analogue TVs...
It won't be long, I suspect, before it's impossible to buy a new analogue TV. This will of course doom real Sinclair Spectrums to not being able to display (well, without modification).
Are there any reasonably trivial (as in, can be built by a hobbyist who's quite happy to solder) methods of taking the composite video side of the TV modulator, and say, outputting it as DVI? IIRC, the input to the modulator is composite video.
Are there any reasonably trivial (as in, can be built by a hobbyist who's quite happy to solder) methods of taking the composite video side of the TV modulator, and say, outputting it as DVI? IIRC, the input to the modulator is composite video.
Post edited by Winston on
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do you mean make the speccy output digital TV?
if so I doubt it, because it's transmitted as an MPEG isn't it?
surely most TVs will still have RGB in though, so that people can connect their DVDs or Videos (am I the only person who still uses VHS? ;-) )
A spectrum RGB output would be much more do-able than the other if I understand you correctly
We have loads of digital channels converted to analogue now. Cutting down the resolution of HD broadcast in real time should be a piece of p*ss!
Which is like watching stuff with sieves nailed over your eyes.
Anyway.
I'm sure there's a technical reason why you should continually pay good money for new hardware. When you don't need or want it. Sony told me so.
I'll develop this on my own then.
if the program is any good, you get too engrossed to notice the picture (I do anyway, I can watch a tiny screen with snow, and not care if it's a good fillum)
and surely it all comes down to bandwidth, if you have higher definition you get less choice (or mor compression)
However we are being FORCED onto HD. This ain't no VHS/BETAMAX compo!
Just seems like there's a huge market for a cheepo version.
if no-one watches HD channels, advertisers won't fund them, and TV companies will drop them :-)
it's only because people have to have the latest technology and the biggest screen. I say bring back 405 line B&W TV ;-)
There's a big switch off. And soon. No more analog TV. If you don't but a 'HD ready' set then you sit in the dark. Playing your old VHS tapes till you die.
This IS being forced upon us.
Big market there!
HD is extra, you can only get it on satellite (and cable IIRC) at the moment.
As far as I know, there is no date for switching all transmissions to HD?
But then - it's all about selling hardware.
Unless it's 'printers'. Then it's all about selling tiny pots of ink for HUGH amounts of money.
But that's another rant.
Not in Europe, our digital TV is in standard definition. The switchoff here is for the analogue transmitter network only, there's no change in picture resolution.
The only thing Europeans are being forced to do is buy a £30 ($50) digital set top box which plugs into their existing analogue standard definition TV.
Are you American by the way? I ask because a lot of American news sites seem to confuse HDTV with Digital TV because both upgrades are happening at once there, but they're really two totally separate things: digital is the method of transmission and HD is the number of lines in the picture. You can have analogue HDTV and digital standard TV, there's absolutely no need to tie the two things together.
Nope, no one in Britain has even mentioned switching to HD, and no one except a few channels on Sky are even transmitting HD.
Exactly, which is why British digital TV doesn't use HD, people seem to prefer increased choice of channels over picture quality. Let's face it, does anyone actually care whether Coronation Street is in high definition or not?
And unless you have an ENORMOUS telly you can't really see much difference from the sofa anyway. It's a bit different in America, they had a much worse TV system than ours so the jump up to HDTV makes a much bigger difference to them.
I mean It'll take 10 more years to HDTV *fully* replace standard resolution. Full HD (1900x??? - other resolutions are meaningless) is very expensive now, and even more expensive for developing countries. Even in germany, a fullHD lcd tv was priced 15000 Euro 2 months ago, still expensive for this wealthy country.
As frobush says, I'm sure many D/A converters will storm the market soon.
But please don't attack HD too much. it completely modernizes that old analogue technology. 720x576 pixels isn't enough for anything. in TV, shooting a panorama is stricty NO. Tiny figures cannot be understand by viewer. Many other problems causing so many technical problems such as dot crawl (using bad transfer method-compositing signals) etc.
Yes, We are being forced to switch to HD. all I can say is: "Finally!"
But this tecnology will change screen grammar too, we will see.
Would you want to watch "Coronation Street" in 256x192 screen? When all switched to HD, todays SD resolution will look like a mess. Maybe we should go back to BW era? And NTSC is not MUCH worse than PAL. PAL is 720x576 (25fps), NTSC 720x480 (30fps). it's just "worse".
Possible. It's the "consumption culture". But my guess is it will take more than 10 years, and since everything will be digital, possibly it will be cheaper this time. What we are doing today is deserting and old analog technology, with cables and cathode tubes and everything. it is hard, but we postponed this long enough. it's like switching from typewriter to zx spectrum.
(I'm not sure I could explained myself enough with my aybabtu english)
It's not even being broadcast yet in Europe (except for a few subscription channels)! A bit early to talk about it replacing standard definition, surely?
You are right, it will take *more than* 10 years. I live in Turkey, and there is no CRT tv in the shelves anymore. "HD ready" lcd tv's are everywhere. What's going on? As you say, there are only 2 channels in HDTV yet. But I started to see some HD-DVD's. Have you ever watched a real FullHD movie? Here is the difference (You'll need a big monitor for this. Save them on your HDD, try to zoom in and examine detail)
SDTV: http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sw3sdgn3.jpg
HDTV: http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sw15se.jpg
I never watch tv (news maybe). But for home cinema, it's worth to do the switch believe me. Don't worry, it's not hard to convert an RGB signal to a HDMI, so we can still use our speccy.
1. Analogue switchoff just means analogue switchoff, the switching off of the analogue TV transmission system and its replacement with a digital TV transmission system. This can broadcast any resolution picture, both standard and HD, or even radio stations. In most of the world digital television is mostly or only in SD.
2. The growth of HDTV sales outside America is nothing to do with analogue TV switchoff, in fact in many countries it's nothing to do with television transmissions at all! Most countries don't have proper HDTV transmissions yet and there simply isn't the space in the broadcasting spectrum for such transmissions unless you watch through satellite or cable. People in most countries are presumably buying HDTVs in expectation of watching HD videos on HD-DVD and Blu-ray players, or playing HD games on the Xbox 360 or PS3.
Analogue switchoff is going to happen very soon, within the next ten years, and in most countries the only thing people are required to do in order to carry on watching is buy a very cheap set top box that plugs into their old analogue TV. They don't need to buy a HDTV, in fact there are no Digital HD programmes at all in most countries.
Standard definition switchoff hasn't even been talked about in most countries because there aren't even HD transmissions in most countries. This will probably take decades to happen, as most people don't tend to buy new TVs very often.
The problem is that salespeople in shops want to scare people into buying expensive new equipment, so they lie and say things like "They're switching off normal TV soon, you'll have to get a HDTV very soon or you won't be able to watch telly". It's a complete con, but that's what salespeople on commission often do.
you forgot one bit, "would you to buy our three year extended warranty it's only eleventy million squids?" :-D
I'm not talking about old antennas (analog transmission signal) being switched off. Digital satellites are around for almost ten years already. Analog tv is almost dead already. (I don't know, maybe in Turkey we are going too fast?)
I'M talking about going high resolution. it can took 10 or 30 years, but this resolution is going down. I'm sure there will be some SD broadcast left, but it will be like AM radio.
720x576 pixels of resolution (digital or analogue) becoming history. And old tv sets only capable of doing that resolution (830ish with overscan). If you want to watch a HD broadcast in an old set, it will have to be downsampled to analogue resolution and colorspace. You will have to buy a HD tv, which will be very affordable in 10 years.
Many consumer handheld cameras is supporting Hi-Def already. Those HD cameras aren't very expensive (look here: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-HC3-High-Definition-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B000DZFSFY ). Market is about to switch to HD. Old tv sets is getting older, nobody wants to buy one anymore (SD or HD, thin screens are getting cheaper every day). And as I said before, almost all of the LCD sets has HDready (720p). Go to your favourite tech shop today and watch the change.
As tv channels, in broadcast sector, all new cameras has HDV resolution. You will not find any betacam cameras in near future in a studio. Look at editing programs: Adobe Premiere HD, Avid Xpress HD etc, Newtek VT HD etc. New professional broadcast equipment is HD only today. All of the digital satellite launches today has HD broadcast support (as you say they are all digital). It's a matter of pusing a button to switch to HD broadcast.
http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/ - look at the first news for today:
"BSkyB says it has had 113,000 customer orders for its new broadband service of which 74,000 are now connected. It has also revealed that Sky HD is now in 96,000 homes."
Everybody in broadcast sector talking about this because it's a new market. There are plenty of money there. I'm not saying it's happening today. But it started and it's good.
The only problem is, HD takes up too much bandwith and a HD broadcast occupies almost 4 SD transmission channels out of a satellite. But this will not be a real problem.
But we are going off topic now. ZX spectrum and HDTV is nothing to do with eachother. It's just a interface problem.
You have a choice, you can have Higher Detail, but lose choice of channels, and need expensive equipment, or you can have cheap equipment with reasonable definition, and choice of hundreds of channels*
* The fact that most of them are shopping channels is a different argument ;-)
Analog TV = Acceptable picture quality, nicam/progic sound
Digital TV = Far superior picture quality, digital audio, DD51 EX, DTS ES etc
HD TV = Incredible picture quality, its like watching a high res movie on my computer monitor, oh wait, I am watching a high res movie on a monitor.
Holographic TV = I wish ..... holo-porn ... oh yeah!
HD is just the next logical step in home entertainment. TV companies have to upgrade their systems too, they wont just stop because some people are content watching films on a hazey/snowey screen.
Personally I cant currently afford to go spending the amount of cash it costs for a decent HD TV; I have other things I want to buy first. One of my mates on the other hand is a total movie freak and has just bought a 42" Philips Plasma unit and h*ly feck! An HD feed running into that puppy is unbelievable. I couldnt believe how much is normally missed due to the crap quality of SD. Even on old films on DVD are far superior, keep in mind that watching a DVD on a standard SDTV doesnt give you the full definition.
Electronics companies had their time upgrading the audio, it now time to get that picture quality upgraded .... and about time too.
For those that are worried about not being able to use their trustly old speccies, dont worry about it. Just because analog broadcasting will stop soon doesnt mean they are going to remove the analog input, we are still going to see composite/SVideo/RGB SCART for a long long time to come on our TV's. Remember VCR's are still being built and sold and they are strictly analog. TV companies will keep backward compatibility for ages. Analog tuners will go soon enough (when the broadcasting ceases). That just means all the peeps that have a speccy with no vid output other than RF are going to have to learn to work a soldering iron and get modding, or just buy an appropriate adapter.
To issue the concern about analog TV not being broadcasted anymore .... well it had to happen someday, nip down to Aldi/Lidl and grab a freeview box for a tenner, it will give you about 30 free channels too! :)
Hi guesser,
I didnt notice your post there. I'm not following what you have said. All HD channels are doubled, none have been replaced, you get both an SD and HD version. Well with my provider anyway.
I'm not following the bit about losing channels? How do you lose channels? lol
Cable/Sky/Sat all give you both HD and SD, the choice of channels is the same. Its not like an HD TV wont recieve an SD signal.
My apologies if I've just picked up what has been said completely wrong ... one too many beers me thinks. ;)
Cheers
And then when that's obsolete, I won't care cos I'll most likely be dead or in a home or something. Either way, I ain't a gonna fret none
So as I said before, to increase the definition of all the channels they would have to decrease the total number of channels.
"The fact that most of them are shopping channels is a different argument :wink:"
LoL Nice one, I like it! :)
Ah right I see what you mean. Its not even close to impossible to broadcast every current available channel at the moment, that arent really that many channels available. Thats the joy of digital broadcasting.
Personally I terrestrial will die off eventually anyway (the sooner the better lol). There is too much crap in the air as it is lol. Fibrecoax hybrid networks are perfectly suited for TV, then eventually plain old fibre. Ofcourse this isnt good for everyone at the moment as not every area has a connection. Sat is good too and has had many new possibilities open up with digital broadcasting. It still has the drawback of no return path though, whcih may seem something that isnt really important for TV, but is actually very important for the whole 'interactive experience'.