Anything good on the Sam Coupe?

Jumping Stack · March 2007

I've just tried a Sam Coupe and seen two of its headline games/conversions in action - Lemmings and Prince of Persia. Both are excellent. This computer seems famous for specced up speccy games but does anyone know anything that runs on it that is all of the following

Good
Unique/Original to the SAM
Available (free or paid) as a download for emulation
Complete (no demos)

I've seen the World of SAM and SAM Scrapbook sites but thought this bigger forum may have some good collective knowledge.

Quazar · March 2007

I sell a lot of software that i've produced over the 12 years i've been developing for the Sam Coupe. ?4.99 games (Stratosphere, Money Bags 2), as well as 76 issues of Soundbyte disk (which is specifically for use with the Sam Coupe and a Quazar Surround soundcard) . I do have a limited stock of 2nd hand titles too - games, utilities and old magazine disks.

I also have got permission to feature past classic games on the coverdisk with Sam Revival magazine, and there's new software on there too.

Anyway, to see everything I do for the Sam Coupe - software, hardware, Sam Revival - see www.samcoupe.com

Colin.

(off to eat my tea, but i'll be back with a fuller reply in a bit!)

Quazar · March 2007

Jumping Stack wrote:

This computer seems famous for specced up speccy games

Hmmm, I would have to disagree :)

The press always jumped on the bandwagon of portraying it as a 'super-spectrum' because it could run 48K software via emulation (and 128K when hacked!). There was only really a handful of games that appeared on both the Sam and the Spectrum - Manic Miner, Lemmings, Sophistry, Splat, Def. of the Earth, EFTPOTRM to name a few.

But the true capabilities of the machine did shine through, and the vast majority of Sam games were unique to the system.

Jumping Stack wrote:

does anyone know anything that runs on it that is all of the following

Good
Unique/Original to the SAM
Available (free or paid) as a download for emulation
Complete (no demos)

Back now, so going through your criteria...

Most of Sam's software is unique / original to the Sam, as in the early life of the Sam there was always a vicious circle of games companies waiting to see how the Sam sold before commiting to writing for it, and a lot of potential buyers were put off for the lack of software available!

There is an ftp site that's been running since 1993 with some software, mostly PD / Freeware and some other software with authors permission etc. It's at: ftp://ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/pub/sam-coupe

But most of Sam's full games are still copyright and not available to download etc. That's why i've been busy contacting authors and securing permission to use old classic games on the Sam Revival coverdisk

So far: ( more info at http://www.samcoupe.com/revival.htm )
Issue 9 - Manic Miner (re-release of the Sam version of the classic, with 40 new caverns) and Money Bags Special edition.
Issue 10 - Invasion II (never before released)
Issue 12 - Mage Fire (never before released)
Issue 13 - Marbles Deluxe (re-release)
Issue 14 - Days of Sorcery (re-release)
Issue 15 - Legend of Eshan (re-release)
Issue 16 - Colony (enhanced re-release)
Issue 17 - T'n'T (re-release) and Money Bags 1 1/2 (enhanced re-release)

Even if you are using an emulator, and you use a PC and it has a disk drive then you can directly read Sam disks in the latest version of the SimCoupe emulator (or make images to save time and use them).

Colin.

Bethan · March 2007

Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters was ace.
Prince of Persia was pretty damned good too.

dm_boozefreek · March 2007

Did they ever release a full version of MM, all I seem to be able to get off the net is either a dodgy copy or an undefined 2 level demo? It loops back to the start after you complete the second screen.

Arjun · March 2007

dm_boozefreek wrote: »

Did they ever release a full version of MM, all I seem to be able to get off the net is either a dodgy copy or an undefined 2 level demo? It loops back to the start after you complete the second screen.

Yes they did and very nice it is too!

Quazar · March 2007

dm_boozefreek wrote: »

Did they ever release a full version of MM, all I seem to be able to get off the net is either a dodgy copy or an undefined 2 level demo? It loops back to the start after you complete the second screen.

Yes, it was published by SamCo in 1991/2. Features the original 20 caverns as well as 40 new ones.

Re-released by Phoenix Software in 1994/5 (with copyright of the game being passed from Matthew Holt the programmer to David Ledbury)

And re-released in full on the coverdisk with Sam Revival issue 9 (with permission from David Ledbury) and is still available. David (who was one of the other designers involved the Sam version) also wrote a six part series of articles for Sam Revival going through all the levels, with anecdotes and memories from the games development.

Colin

neoncherry · March 2007

Quazar wrote: »

The press always jumped on the bandwagon of portraying it as a 'super-spectrum' because it could run 48K software via emulation (and 128K when hacked!).

I've heard people say it was just the press who obsessed about this, but this isn't true. The people who made Sam Coupe advertised it with great emphasis on its backwards compatibility. This advert does make it sound like a Super Spectrum:

http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=YourSinclair/Issue51/Pages/YourSinclair5100026.jpg

http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=YourSinclair/Issue51/Pages/YourSinclair5100028.jpg

Obviously MGT did this because they were advertising in Spectrum magazines, but it's difficult to entirely blame the press for pretty much just repeating what MGT were already pushing as a selling point.

Quazar · March 2007

Well yes, MGT did over-sell the fact too, nobody can deny that. And with the lack of native Sam software in the early days there wasn't much else to report on in the press (except the likes of the first bugged ROM too, which didn't help!). Thankfully, by the time SamCo was set up after MGT going bust the emphasis was on the Sam software and the Spectrum Emulation was no longer always in the spotlight.

I did originally think when I bought my first Sam in 1993 i'd still sit and load in all my speccy tapes - never did though :D

I still stand by the press having a large part to play to some respect. Meeting people at retro shows over the last few years I hear from a lot of people that they only thought the Sam was a Spectrum clone or something from what they've read, and not a more advanced machine in it's own right. It's fun showing off what it really can do :)

Colin.

neoncherry · March 2007

Quazar wrote: »

I still stand by the press having a large part to play to some respect. Meeting people at retro shows over the last few years I hear from a lot of people that they only thought the Sam was a Spectrum clone or something from what they've read, and not a more advanced machine in it's own right. It's fun showing off what it really can do :)

Yeah, it's an amazing machine really, the graphics on something like Lemmings look almost like a 16-bit computer.

I suppose the problem with the press was that the Sam Coupe never had that much money behind it, so it never had that much advertising to establish itself as a brand in its own right. The Spectrum press took an interest because it seemed to offer a natural upgrade from the Speccy (and to be fair, the compatibility did make this true) but that was their only reason for being interested, they were Spectrum magazines after all.

There was also no unique "hook" to distinguish it from all the other 8-bits out there (and there were a heck of a lot of them), so the most memorable feature was the Spectrum connection.

It's like that bar in Iceland that Damon Albarn bought a share of, people immediately started saying it was "Damon's bar" because he was the only thing that linked the bar to the wider world. It wasn't his bar really, he was just one of many owners, and I doubt he had much to do with the way it was run.

Quazar · March 2007

neoncherry wrote:

Yeah, it's an amazing machine really, the graphics on something like Lemmings look almost like a 16-bit computer.

The Sam version used the Amiga graphics. Chris White really did the Sam proud with Lemmings!

neoncherry wrote:

The Spectrum press took an interest because it seemed to offer a natural upgrade from the Speccy (and to be fair, the compatibility did make this true) but that was their only reason for being interested, they were Spectrum magazines after all.

Yeah, although the initial emulation did get quite a battering because the 'skeleton ROM' that was created from scratch for the first MGT ZX Spectrum emulator only offered around 60% compatibility, as the proper Spectrum ROM couldn't be included in the emulators for copyright reasons. (Although, it didn't take very long for the real ROM to appear in PD emulators! :D)

Colin.

Jumping Stack · March 2007

Looks like not much is known here about Sam Coupe games then. Thanks to Bethan and Quazar for your suggestions. I have sent a PM to Quazar who looks like one of a very small band actively keeping the SAM alive.
I'd say that the handful of games that pushed the SAM's capacity would really appeal to Spectrum fans as they have the playability factor and fine gfx and sound for an 8 bit of the era.

NickH · March 2007

Jumping Stack wrote: »

Looks like not much is known here about Sam Coupe games then.

Beyond Lemmings and Prince Of Persia, I wouldn't say anything else on the SAM really came up to the quality of full price Speccy games of the time.

NickH · March 2007

neoncherry wrote: »

I suppose the problem with the press was that the Sam Coupe never had that much money behind it

I think it's something as basic as the machine being so late - later even by Sinclair standards. It was teased by Crash at the end of '87, with further rumours throughout '88. The fact that you couldn't receive one until Xmas '89 (if you were very lucky - most likely early '90) meant that the press had been teased for far too long and become jaded by it all.

The poor compatibility of the bundled Spectrum (48k) emulator combined with the ROM problems and lack of software didn't help matters either.

The SAM would have been a success and the natural upgrade for Spectrum users had it been released at the end of '88 (especially considering the let-down of Amstrad's Sinclair PC200 during that year - people were expecting a +4 supermachine) - by late '89/'90 the ST and Amiga were so cheap that the SAM didn't really have a sizable market to aim for - most commentary at the time it was being sold called it a niche machine, not for the mainstream.

neoncherry · March 2007

NickH wrote: »

I think it's something as basic as the machine being so late - later even by Sinclair standards. It was teased by Crash at the end of '87, with further rumours throughout '88. The fact that you couldn't receive one until Xmas '89 (if you were very lucky - most likely early '90) meant that the press had been teased for far too long and become jaded by it all.

...but maybe the lateness was due to the lack of money?

Also, wasn't it actually quite difficult to find any shops that stocked them? I certainly don't recall ever seeing one, mind you I wasn't looking as I'd never heard of the machine until a few years ago.

You're right though, even if they'd had stacks of cash it was just too late for a machine like this to make a big impact on the computing world. It should have been launched in 87/88, when 16-bit was still pretty expensive but the Speccy was starting to seem a bit old-fashioned.

NickH · March 2007

'88 was the 16-bit boom year when the ST and Amiga price was well down into the top of the home computing price range and the games market was starting to get into full swing. Even though I say that if the SAM was released in late '88, I'm still not sure it would have established itself before it got priced out of the market.

A pet theory of mine is that the guys at MGT foresaw that the +3 would just be a 128k machine with a diskdrive bolted onto the end of it and realised that there would be a gap in the market for Spectrum upgraders. They just weren't quick enough about it.

neoncherry · March 2007

NickH wrote: »

'88 was the 16-bit boom year when the ST and Amiga price was well down into the top of the home computing price range and the games market was starting to get into full swing. Even though I say that if the SAM was released in late '88, I'm still not sure it would have established itself before it got priced out of the market.

Hmm... so it would have to have been released in 86 to stand a chance? Could it have been manufactured at a reasonable price back then? I assume component prices drop quite a lot in 4 years.

NickH · March 2007

neoncherry wrote: »

Hmm... so it would have to have been released in 86 to stand a chance?

I'd say late '87 - the +3 should have been similar to the SAM.

Could it have been manufactured at a reasonable price back then?

By a company such as Amstrad, yes, I think so.

Jumping Stack · March 2007

NickH wrote: »

Beyond Lemmings and Prince Of Persia, I wouldn't say anything else on the SAM really came up to the quality of full price Speccy games of the time.

The game rereleased on Quazar's revival magazine, Colony, has the look of being decent. Did you ever see it?

Quazar · March 2007

NickH wrote: »

Beyond Lemmings and Prince Of Persia, I wouldn't say anything else on the SAM really came up to the quality of full price Speccy games of the time.

Hmmm, depends just how much software you've seen over the years!

There was a wealth of software, but often had to hunt to find it - a lot of software didn't get mentioned in the magazines of the time. In the 90s there were a lot of small factions in the Sam world, ignoring work of others or even bad mouthing it. I encountered that problem when I started out in 1995 after designing and starting up Quazar with the launch of the Quazar Surround soundcard. News was welcomed in most publications, but not others. Stratosphere which I spent 11 months working on (released in Autumn 1997) scored top marks in one magazine review, and quoted as beating lemmings as the top Sam game in another was shunned completely by a major diskmag of the time. I guess it was seen as competition for their own full price software.

I spent a lot of time in my early years trying to get the support of most of the companies, as I was interested to get Quazar Surround soundcard support into a lot of games and more often than not it was the small developers who were far more co-operative and realised the potential there was, compared to the responses from the big names of the time. There was some cracking games from the likes of the smaller developers like Jupiter Software and Mungus Software.

But going back to games in general, even a lot of games that featured on the various diskmags years ago were certainly more worthy that just being stuck on a diskmag, and should have been released on their own to give them the merit they deserved. Myself, with Soundbyte, which was the monthly disk I produced with software specifically for the Quazar Surround (from 1995 to 2004, with 76 issues so far!) had some games that people thought were crackers and that I should have sold for more but I still put them out cheaply on Soundbyte for the princely sum of 2 quid at the time!

Being in touch now with a lot of programmers from the past, and getting permission for a lot of old software for forthcoming coverdisks, it also gives them the opportunity to tell their side of the story as I usually have an accompanying interview with them in the magazine which can be quite eye opening, even for me as I know of all the dirty tricks that have gone on behind the scenes!

And getting my hands on previously unreleased software has been great, stuff that's thats been sitting around in their disk boxes for years really puts to shame some 'full price' games from the past - such as Invasion II that featured on Sam Revival 10. I've also received a lot of bits and pieces game wise that for one reason or another were never finished and hopefully *one day* i'll do what I can with it and get it finished off. Some of the stuff is rather amazing!

Colin.

Quazar · March 2007

Jumping Stack wrote: »

The game rereleased on Quazar's revival magazine, Colony, has the look of being decent. Did you ever see it?

Colony was one of the 'later' releases for the Sam - it was first released in 1997 by Fred Publishing, but then later released by Persona in 1998. It also got updated for the Persona release - I added a lot of extra audio for it to take advantage of the Quazar Surround soundcard if you've got one plugged in.

It's quite a hard game, took me a while to get into back in 1998 when I was adding the extra sound, it was certainly very challenging! Derek (the author) goes into it's development a bit and explains the reasons behind some of it's shortcomings in the accompanying interview in the mag. Unfortunately, Derek never got the royalties from either company when it was published and I guess that's one of the reasons he never completed the next game he was working on. The more authors I hear from, the more this seems to be the case - companies (even the popular 'big name' companies) not paying the programmers the money they are rightfully due - it certainly put a lot of people off writing anything else. As I said, a lot of crap went on behind the scenes.

Colin.

neoncherry · March 2007

NickH wrote: »

By a company such as Amstrad, yes, I think so.

I suppose they DID do this in a way with the CPC+ series, but just like the SAM it was way way too late.

NickH · April 2007

Quazar wrote: »

Hmmm, depends just how much software you've seen over the years!

There was a wealth of software, but often had to hunt to find it - a lot of software didn't get mentioned in the magazines of the time. In the 90s there were a lot of small factions in the Sam world, ignoring work of others or even bad mouthing it. I encountered that problem when I started out in 1995 after designing and starting up Quazar with the launch of the Quazar Surround soundcard. News was welcomed in most publications, but not others. Stratosphere which I spent 11 months working on (released in Autumn 1997) scored top marks in one magazine review, and quoted as beating lemmings as the top Sam game in another was shunned completely by a major diskmag of the time. I guess it was seen as competition for their own full price software.

Intriguing... let me guess: four-letter word, beginning with F? I've had various suspicions about some of their practices in the past.

So, what ranks alongside (and above) PoP and Lemmings?

Nick

NickH · April 2007

neoncherry wrote: »

I suppose they DID do this in a way with the CPC+ series, but just like the SAM it was way way too late.

Last gasp of a dying technology. And the reason for the premature death of the +3 :(

Quazar · April 2007

NickH wrote: »

So, what ranks alongside (and above) PoP and Lemmings?

PoP and Lemmings are always the two brought up - big popular liscenses, released early on in the Sam's life ... it's often only them and Enigma Variations games from 1990/1 that people tend to know about!

I'll have a bit of a think this afternoon and work my real favourites, mainly on playability as that's what I rate games for - not whizzy graphics! (That's why I really hate 99% of 'modern' games on consoles/pc... dev's only concentrate on graphics etc and not gameplay!), but i'll also give kudos to titles of particular technical merit too!

Colin.

NickH · April 2007

Ta - the SAM will feature in the 1990 documentary chapter (I know - PoP et al were released well after that, but I want to deal with the highlights in one chunk) and currently I only intend to display PoP and Lemmings.

(Edit: although thinking about it, that might change, with 1990 containing DotE, Enigma Variations stuff, and then the 199x chapter containing PoP and Lemmings - makes more sense)

1990 chapter will probably be out at Christmas. Yikes.

Quazar · April 2007

NickH wrote: »

Ta - the SAM will feature in the 1990 documentary chapter (I know - PoP et al were released well after that, but I want to deal with the highlights in one chunk) and currently I only intend to display PoP and Lemmings.

Hmmm... highlights, I can see me making another list of highlights in general this afternoon ...!

If you've any Sam questions whatsoever or need info verified fire a PM in my direction! :)

Colin.

Quazar · April 2007

Right, i've had a think, and no doubt will think of other titles later! My years may be out as i'm not too sure on a couple that were released either right at the end of one year or at the very start of another!

Top Games (In my opinion anyway... :D)

1990: Escape From The Planet of the Robot Monsters
(Slow, bugged, but beautiful. Enigma Variations were certainly pioneers as one of the only mainstream companies to support the Sam)

Sphera
(Again Enigma Variations, although criticised for using MODE2 for the main scrolling levels)

1991: Manic Miner
(Ok, graphics weren't too hot, but it oozed playability and having 40 new caverns really made it worth while)

1992: Prince of Persia
(Chris White shows what the Sam can do. Although, for my liking it's too linear a game but it is a true Sam classic I won't deny that!)

Waterworks
(Novel twist - despite the usual YS rantings about puzzle games!)

1993: Lemmings
(Oh how I looked forward to this! Having been a lemmings fan since it came out on the Amiga when I had spent many evenings at a mate's house playing it on his A500 till I had completed it!)

Exodus
(Cracking shoot-em-up in the Smash TV style. People may remember how the company that "was" going to publish it lost out with the author deciding to sell it himself and started saying in their diskzine that was "unplayable" etc. YS stood to it's defence!)

1994: Soul Magician, Captain Comic
(I've listed these together as they were both PC conversions by 'noname'. Because they were conversions they ended up being just games on a diskzine and not full releases, but stunning)

Booty
(Nice, clean, expanded remake of the Speccy classic)

1995: Amalthea
(3 disk megagame, sort of alien breed style, and the first release to support the Quazar Surround soundcard)

Oh No More Lemmings
(Again, as i'm a lemmings fan! New music would have made this even better instead of the original tunes)

1996: Conquest
(First game by Hydrasoft, strategy sort of thing on the same lines of civilisation. Really addictive, I played it to death when adding enhanced sound to it before it's (somewhat limited) release)

1997: Stratosphere
(Okay, it's a game I wrote, so i'll let the reviews speak - click here! (scroll down a bit past the blurb!))

Impostors
(Wierd, arcadey puzzle solving thing with lots of levels and endgames)

1999: Music Quiz 2
(One of the games I wrote for Soundbyte which I've put here going by all the feedback I got for it - two disk music quiz with tons of music, questions, cheesey presenter!)

2001: Mouse Hunt 2
(Another of my own creations for Soundbyte to use the Quazar Surround soundcard, an audio game making use of the surround sound, trying to walk around and catch a mouse that's moving around you)

2004: Invasion II
(Written back in 1997, but never released, then plopped into my mailbox by the author introducing himself! (Thanks!). Nice platformer although written with GamesMaster the graphics and size of the final baddie push the system to make a great game)

Hardware Highlights

1989: The Sam Coupé
(Although I never bought one until March 1993!)

1991: Mouse
(Finally, although again, I still wasn't in the Sam scene at this time!)

1995: Quazar Surround soundcard
(Multichannel digital sound up to 16 bit quality, surround sound... shows just what this 8-bit machine can do!)

1996: Atom IDE Interface
(Nice one Edwin, especially with the excellent DOS to use it)

Now: Mayhem Accelerator
(It's cost me an arm and a leg to develop, but gives the Sam a good kick up the rear with regards to speed - 10, 16, 20MHz speeds)

Colin.

Spector · April 2007

Quazar wrote: »

1997: Stratosphere
(Okay, it's a game I wrote, so i'll let the reviews speak - click here! (scroll down a bit past the blurb!))

The first review from that link is the best:
"It's sexy. Get it now!"

So that makes you a sexy programmer then :lol:

Quazar · April 2007

Spector wrote: »

So that makes you a sexy programmer then :lol:

No... I've never been called a sexy programmer....

Colin.

Anything good on the Sam Coupe?

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