If software / music / dvd's prices were cheaper then more people would buy it and piracy would be reduced.
But the companies weigh all this up and decide that they can make more money by setting unrealistically high prices, selling less and accepting piracy as a price of doing business.
Personally, i wait for these things to reach a realistic price before getting them.
I agree with sirclives concerns over modding new consoles 3 months into their launch, the PS1 was pre broadband era, getting hold of pirate material was a bit tougher back in the mid nineties (albeit easy if you had a local car boot sale). With BB speeds now hitting 10mb+, it is now easier than ever to obtain pirate software and can only hurt the console, especially for small developers. Im also surprised at the speed in which the system was hacked, thought nintendo would have put some real hard time into getting the security tight...
I agree with SirClive about the double standards on this forum.
If WOS is doing its best to maintain an image of respect for the intellectual property of Spectrum software, it should apply the same morale to other intellectual property. And it's up to the moderators to maintain that.
Perhaps the chit chat forum was a bad idea after all..?
Which 80`s computer last wey past its sell by date ???
Spectrum - Tape to Tape ;)
Why is PS still going ???? Chipping full stop or PSP downgrading.
Im not saying it wont kill bad consoles, as it WILL. But thats not a problem in my world.
More people use something illegally more people will sucker up and buy it legally.
Msborg, have the right idea, let them copy then put the screw on later on.
And example where piracy works.
3ds Max, or even autocad or even microstation, who can afford this package ??? NOBODY, who can get it, nearly everybody.
Now say u can use the above package, the company you might work for will have to buy this package !!! As they require support, always the most important thing in any business. IMHO
I agree with SirClive about the double standards on this forum.
If WOS is doing its best to maintain an image of respect for the intellectual property of Spectrum software, it should apply the same morale to other intellectual property. And it's up to the moderators to maintain that.
Perhaps the chit chat forum was a bad idea after all..?
no double standards, even the ones of us that dont mind abit of piracy dont divulge denied games locations is cos of 2 reasons
1: its against the rules ........leads to either a deletion or worse a banning
2: we dont want the site getting into trouble.
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
sirclive1: Let's say I download a console game for my own personal use, and without money changing hands. Also, bear in mind that I would never shell out the ?40 to buy the game in the first place.
Is this morally less acceptable than when you used to pirate speccy games? I can't see a difference personally.
thats also a difference i see in the piracy funds terrorists / organised criminals arguement .......ie: ok if your buying games off some dodgy geezer down the market. BUT i download mine and it doesnt cost anything, nobody makes anything ......same with films filmed on a cam and uploaded.
also i buy as many games as i can (i aint the worlds richest man, even if i aint quite the poorest either) who'd begrudge me a few extra games that i prolly wouldnt have bought anyway...so they aint losing out on something they wouldnt have got if i dint download????? not to say i do anyway :P
and speccy piracy is EXACTLY the same
when i got my speccy in 1983 i BOUGHT a c15 tape off a school friend the week before i was due to get it so id have some games to play on it.
those games were manic miner / kong / tomb of dracula i never had originals of any of those games ever. so they lost out on my money there, id have definitely bought manic miner too if i had to :P
there was plenty of people back in those days flogging copied games just as there is now.....just its on a bigger scale now cos the industries grown.
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
People who pirate software say "Oh I was never going to buy most of these games anyway", but the keyword there is "most". It means they would have bought at least some of the games, and it's those games that are the real lost sales.
It's a bit like saying it's okay to hit someone as long as you hit a load of lampposts afterwards, on the basis that most of your victims were inanimate objects who didn't suffer any pain.
Are you saying you never pirated speccy games back in the day?
There's a documentary from the 1980s where they asked one of the managers at Ocean software about piracy. In a refreshingly honest move, he said he wasn't really worried about teenagers swapping games in the playground, it didn't really affect his business that much. What really upset him was the mass scale counterfeit stuff where one company or person would sell games to thousands of people. He then produced two cassettes in cases from his pocket, one an original Ocean game and the other a counterfeit, and there were barely any differences between them. It was the commercial pirates he was after, as they were clearly trying to make a living off the work of other people.
The internet has changed all that. It means that we're not just swapping games with our mates, we're making games available to anyone on the planet who wants them, instantly, for free, anonymously. The more normal it becomes to use mod chips the more normal it will become to use pirated games. It's still a small number who use a modded console, but doing mods so quickly like this, just a few months after a console has launched, can't be healthy for the format.
If someone really wants homebrew, they can buy a PC. There's no restrictions on writing or running PC software, they can make and use all the homebrew they want, and a lower-end PC wouldn't cost much more than a Wii anyway.
If someone really wants homebrew, they can buy a PC. There's no restrictions on writing or running PC software, they can make and use all the homebrew they want, and a lower-end PC wouldn't cost much more than a Wii anyway.
What about those who have a Wii and want to play with a homebrewed Spectrum emulator on the TV?*
I have a PC but have only hooked it up to the TV once or twice just to see that the card actually worked ok.
*I'm not playing devil's advocate here ... just posing a legitimate question.
In response to the argument that pirating games now is the same as 23 years ago.
Do you really think a 12 year old boy swapping copies of jetpac or whatever is the same as the software piracy of today ? does anyone ? Your using that as some kind of excuse / link and its utter rubbish.
Were all adults now and can make better decisions , we have more money than we had as children , we should have more sense and more morals (hopefully) and can clearly see the damage that piracy does.
If you want to play gamecube games , xbox 360 games , or view the latest dvds , go and buy them , it helps everyone in the long run , people are just out for the short term , greed takes over , no one seems to care about the so called " faceless " software developers , manufacturers , retailers , distributors etc , the people who actually make this industry work .
And as to the above argument that games should be cheaper , thats just insane , how many months of work do you think it takes to produce games such as gears of war or rainbow 6 vegas , how many channels does that game go through before actually hitting the shelves , if you cant afford it , save up and get it when you can , or like a thieving pirate - get a copy.
Its all me me me and f*** everyone as long as im alright with piracy.
I also dont remember getting my spectrum chipped at some dodgy computer fair and giving some pirate ?60 for the privilege.
Piracy is wrong / illegal / immoral , if you dont see that then i give up , as to the argument about saying it costs no one anything if a movie is filmed via a camcorder in the cinema then slapped on dvd and flogged around , who are you kidding ? why not go and see the film in the first place and give a little back to the industry.
im ranting like a madman here , im just sick of piracy and its band of followers who insist they dont harm the industry / prices are too high etc , have a real look at yourself and the harm you do.
In response to the argument that pirating games now is the same as 23 years ago.
Do you really think a 12 year old boy swapping copies of jetpac or whatever is the same as the software piracy of today ? does anyone ? Your using that as some kind of excuse / link and its utter rubbish.
As you didn't reply to my question previously, I'll ask it again...
Please tell me what is morally different from someone downloading a console game which they wouldn't have bought in the shops, for their own personal use, with no money changing hands, and you pirating speccy games back in the 80s?
There is no difference. Yep, if money changes hands or it stops you buying the game in the first place then you have a point. Otherwise there is absolutely no difference.
Why download it for free and use it , when you could go out and buy it ?
If you dont want it that much , leave it , if you do want it , buy it ?
ive described in detail above what the difference is , were not children , were all adults now and know better , if you dont understand or cant agree the difference then we must agree to disagree because this will go on and on.
ive only every used pirate, or copied software on two machines, my amiga 500, and my current nintendo DS.
my excuse for the amiga is that i was a kid who was too lazy to get a paper round.
my excuse for illegal roms on my DS are that ive pumped enough money into nintendo through the 64, cube, and gameboy, and im only downloading not buying them.
in fact i dont even watch pirate dvds.
although i do buy drugs, which is far worse for fueling crime than me downloading marios bros from some shanky site.
ive described in detail above what the difference is , were not children , were all adults now and know better ,
I'm sorry, but as a 12 year old, I knew that copying speccy games was wrong, and so did all my school mates. Are you seriously saying that as a 12 year old you didn't think it was wrong?
Your asking me questions then saying its time to stop ?
Do you have the same thoughts of action now as you did as as a young boy ?
i certainly hope not , ive changed as i reckon most have , we get more responsible for our actions , otherwise it would be chaos.
It was wrong to copy even one game of course but to continue doing that is a greater wrong by far , you could afford those games now , but continue to pirate other peoples hard work that they spend years developing.
If this is your only argument for YOU justifying to be a pirate then im afraid its wafer thin.
Even as a kid i spent all the money i could on original games , hundreds of them , even when the option was there for a copy , i like the look of the original on my shelf , reading the inlays , making a nice collection etc
In response to the argument that pirating games now is the same as 23 years ago.
Do you really think a 12 year old boy swapping copies of jetpac or whatever is the same as the software piracy of today ? does anyone ? Your using that as some kind of excuse / link and its utter rubbish.
no, what im saying is, people WERE selling pirated games then as they are now, no difference
the only difference obviously the scale of it, but thats down to the size of the games industry and the technology advances that make it easier to pirate and distribute stuff
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
People who pirate software say "Oh I was never going to buy most of these games anyway", but the keyword there is "most". It means they would have bought at least some of the games, and it's those games that are the real lost sales.
i DO buy as many original games for all my computers / consoles that i really really want / can afford / have the room to store.
i also have 1000s upon 1000s of original records/cds and tapes which i have bought, ive spent since about 1981 buying music in all forms and since 1983 buying games.
as ive said before i CANT buy everything, its physically impossible and if im not buying it anyway, its impossible theyre losing out.
also i buy most things these days from charity shops .....obviously 1 persons bought the item once, but theyre losing a second sale, should charity shops be banned too to protect their income?
then theres the likes of game, chips and gamestation selling the latest console games secondhand, obviously the makers dont get owt back on those the second or third time round?
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
The scale of piracey in the mid 80's was quite astonishing.
All the computer clubs were filled with kids tape to taping like rabbits fucking in spring.
Long gone are the days of LERM - Oh wait it's called ripping now.
People wandering round with fist fulls of C90's filled with games. Twin cassette beat boxes going constantly. It was possible to get every game within a week of release. (Of course you'd get less C64 games on a C90 than speccy games.)
A C90 with 20 games on was a loss to the industry of say ?100 which in todays terms 20 years later would be ???
I would argue that there is less piracy now.
Or less games pirated, but with individual games costing ?30-?40 on release the industry probably bleats about it more than ever.
Well, I bought my little 'un an Xbox 360, which is money to microsoft. I bought him games for it, cos piracy isn't too easy on there (and it will cost me plenty to get it done).
However, I can honestly, hand on heart, state that I have *never* paid for any single piece of PC software, *ever*. Nor will I.
I am happy being a pirate, I know I'm killing the industry - and do you know what? I couldn't give a flying fuck about it. The industry could collapse tomorrow and I couldn't give a damn - I'd find something else to do.
Well, I bought my little 'un an Xbox 360, which is money to microsoft. I bought him games for it, cos piracy isn't too easy on there (and it will cost me plenty to get it done).
However, I can honestly, hand on heart, state that I have *never* paid for any single piece of PC software, *ever*. Nor will I.
I am happy being a pirate, I know I'm killing the industry - and do you know what? I couldn't give a flying fuck about it. The industry could collapse tomorrow and I couldn't give a damn - I'd find something else to do.
thanks for sharing that nugget of information with us dunny, you sure have converted me, anything else you'd like to add that may further strengthen the right to pirate software?
thanks for sharing that nugget of information with us dunny, you sure have converted me, anything else you'd like to add that may further strengthen the right to pirate software?
Glad to be of service - if I think of anything else, I'll let you know.
Well, I bought my little 'un an Xbox 360, which is money to microsoft. I bought him games for it, cos piracy isn't too easy on there (and it will cost me plenty to get it done).
However, I can honestly, hand on heart, state that I have *never* paid for any single piece of PC software, *ever*. Nor will I.
I am happy being a pirate, I know I'm killing the industry - and do you know what? I couldn't give a flying fuck about it. The industry could collapse tomorrow and I couldn't give a damn - I'd find something else to do.
Aren't I a shithead, eh?
D.
Dunny, you disappoint me. You really do. I expected more from you.
Paying for Xbox 360 games? Tut tut.
Anywaaaay, I can't stand around here all day chatting, I've got games to download.
International terrorism won't fund itself you know!
itd have been funnier if youd used a cartoon character or someat dude :P
maybe a ninja turtle to be in with the in crowd
Nah ... I didn't put that much thought into it really ...
1. Dunny indirectly/directly supports piracy.
2. Dunny makes SPIN
3. Dunny has a pic of Mr. Speccy in SPIN, whether it's a PD pic or not I don't know.
4. Skarpo "reverse engimaneers" the pic out of SPIN.
5. Skarpo inserts aforementioned pic as an avatar in WoS.
6. Skarpo laughs for no reason.
7. Mel the Bell has a different idea.
8. Skarpo doesn't quite get Mel the Bell's idea.
9. Skarpo leaves to have tea.
You can implement 10 and upwards if you want (MtB and/or others if interested).
Nah ... I didn't put that much thought into it really ...
1. Dunny indirectly/directly supports piracy.
2. Dunny makes SPIN
3. Dunny has a pic of Mr. Speccy in SPIN, whether it's a PD pic or not I don't know.
4. Skarpo "reverse engimaneers" the pic out of SPIN.
5. Skarpo inserts aforementioned pic as an avatar in WoS.
6. Skarpo laughs for no reason.
7. Mel the Bell has a different idea.
8. Skarpo doesn't quite get Mel the Bell's idea.
9. Skarpo leaves to have tea.
You can implement 10 and upwards if you want (MtB and/or others if interested).
Skarpo
:-!
10. *melthebell wanks cock furiously*
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
Comments
If software / music / dvd's prices were cheaper then more people would buy it and piracy would be reduced.
But the companies weigh all this up and decide that they can make more money by setting unrealistically high prices, selling less and accepting piracy as a price of doing business.
Personally, i wait for these things to reach a realistic price before getting them.
Just my two penneth. :)
my $0.02
If WOS is doing its best to maintain an image of respect for the intellectual property of Spectrum software, it should apply the same morale to other intellectual property. And it's up to the moderators to maintain that.
Perhaps the chit chat forum was a bad idea after all..?
Whos the Richest man in the world ?????
The one who has his software copied the most !!!
Thats who !!
Which 80`s computer last wey past its sell by date ???
Spectrum - Tape to Tape ;)
Why is PS still going ???? Chipping full stop or PSP downgrading.
Im not saying it wont kill bad consoles, as it WILL. But thats not a problem in my world.
More people use something illegally more people will sucker up and buy it legally.
Msborg, have the right idea, let them copy then put the screw on later on.
And example where piracy works.
3ds Max, or even autocad or even microstation, who can afford this package ??? NOBODY, who can get it, nearly everybody.
Now say u can use the above package, the company you might work for will have to buy this package !!! As they require support, always the most important thing in any business. IMHO
PS. i own no consoles,
no double standards, even the ones of us that dont mind abit of piracy dont divulge denied games locations is cos of 2 reasons
1: its against the rules ........leads to either a deletion or worse a banning
2: we dont want the site getting into trouble.
also i buy as many games as i can (i aint the worlds richest man, even if i aint quite the poorest either) who'd begrudge me a few extra games that i prolly wouldnt have bought anyway...so they aint losing out on something they wouldnt have got if i dint download????? not to say i do anyway :P
and speccy piracy is EXACTLY the same
when i got my speccy in 1983 i BOUGHT a c15 tape off a school friend the week before i was due to get it so id have some games to play on it.
those games were manic miner / kong / tomb of dracula i never had originals of any of those games ever. so they lost out on my money there, id have definitely bought manic miner too if i had to :P
there was plenty of people back in those days flogging copied games just as there is now.....just its on a bigger scale now cos the industries grown.
It's a bit like saying it's okay to hit someone as long as you hit a load of lampposts afterwards, on the basis that most of your victims were inanimate objects who didn't suffer any pain.
There's a documentary from the 1980s where they asked one of the managers at Ocean software about piracy. In a refreshingly honest move, he said he wasn't really worried about teenagers swapping games in the playground, it didn't really affect his business that much. What really upset him was the mass scale counterfeit stuff where one company or person would sell games to thousands of people. He then produced two cassettes in cases from his pocket, one an original Ocean game and the other a counterfeit, and there were barely any differences between them. It was the commercial pirates he was after, as they were clearly trying to make a living off the work of other people.
The internet has changed all that. It means that we're not just swapping games with our mates, we're making games available to anyone on the planet who wants them, instantly, for free, anonymously. The more normal it becomes to use mod chips the more normal it will become to use pirated games. It's still a small number who use a modded console, but doing mods so quickly like this, just a few months after a console has launched, can't be healthy for the format.
If someone really wants homebrew, they can buy a PC. There's no restrictions on writing or running PC software, they can make and use all the homebrew they want, and a lower-end PC wouldn't cost much more than a Wii anyway.
What about those who have a Wii and want to play with a homebrewed Spectrum emulator on the TV?*
I have a PC but have only hooked it up to the TV once or twice just to see that the card actually worked ok.
*I'm not playing devil's advocate here ... just posing a legitimate question.
Skarpo
:-?
Do you really think a 12 year old boy swapping copies of jetpac or whatever is the same as the software piracy of today ? does anyone ? Your using that as some kind of excuse / link and its utter rubbish.
Were all adults now and can make better decisions , we have more money than we had as children , we should have more sense and more morals (hopefully) and can clearly see the damage that piracy does.
If you want to play gamecube games , xbox 360 games , or view the latest dvds , go and buy them , it helps everyone in the long run , people are just out for the short term , greed takes over , no one seems to care about the so called " faceless " software developers , manufacturers , retailers , distributors etc , the people who actually make this industry work .
And as to the above argument that games should be cheaper , thats just insane , how many months of work do you think it takes to produce games such as gears of war or rainbow 6 vegas , how many channels does that game go through before actually hitting the shelves , if you cant afford it , save up and get it when you can , or like a thieving pirate - get a copy.
Its all me me me and f*** everyone as long as im alright with piracy.
I also dont remember getting my spectrum chipped at some dodgy computer fair and giving some pirate ?60 for the privilege.
Piracy is wrong / illegal / immoral , if you dont see that then i give up , as to the argument about saying it costs no one anything if a movie is filmed via a camcorder in the cinema then slapped on dvd and flogged around , who are you kidding ? why not go and see the film in the first place and give a little back to the industry.
im ranting like a madman here , im just sick of piracy and its band of followers who insist they dont harm the industry / prices are too high etc , have a real look at yourself and the harm you do.
As you didn't reply to my question previously, I'll ask it again...
Please tell me what is morally different from someone downloading a console game which they wouldn't have bought in the shops, for their own personal use, with no money changing hands, and you pirating speccy games back in the 80s?
There is no difference. Yep, if money changes hands or it stops you buying the game in the first place then you have a point. Otherwise there is absolutely no difference.
If you dont want it that much , leave it , if you do want it , buy it ?
ive described in detail above what the difference is , were not children , were all adults now and know better , if you dont understand or cant agree the difference then we must agree to disagree because this will go on and on.
ive only every used pirate, or copied software on two machines, my amiga 500, and my current nintendo DS.
my excuse for the amiga is that i was a kid who was too lazy to get a paper round.
my excuse for illegal roms on my DS are that ive pumped enough money into nintendo through the 64, cube, and gameboy, and im only downloading not buying them.
in fact i dont even watch pirate dvds.
although i do buy drugs, which is far worse for fueling crime than me downloading marios bros from some shanky site.
But it was ok for you to obtain speccy games for free 20 years ago?
I'm sorry, but as a 12 year old, I knew that copying speccy games was wrong, and so did all my school mates. Are you seriously saying that as a 12 year old you didn't think it was wrong?
Agreed. I don't see the point in carrying on this discussion.
Do you have the same thoughts of action now as you did as as a young boy ?
i certainly hope not , ive changed as i reckon most have , we get more responsible for our actions , otherwise it would be chaos.
It was wrong to copy even one game of course but to continue doing that is a greater wrong by far , you could afford those games now , but continue to pirate other peoples hard work that they spend years developing.
If this is your only argument for YOU justifying to be a pirate then im afraid its wafer thin.
Even as a kid i spent all the money i could on original games , hundreds of them , even when the option was there for a copy , i like the look of the original on my shelf , reading the inlays , making a nice collection etc
the only difference obviously the scale of it, but thats down to the size of the games industry and the technology advances that make it easier to pirate and distribute stuff
i also have 1000s upon 1000s of original records/cds and tapes which i have bought, ive spent since about 1981 buying music in all forms and since 1983 buying games.
as ive said before i CANT buy everything, its physically impossible and if im not buying it anyway, its impossible theyre losing out.
also i buy most things these days from charity shops .....obviously 1 persons bought the item once, but theyre losing a second sale, should charity shops be banned too to protect their income?
then theres the likes of game, chips and gamestation selling the latest console games secondhand, obviously the makers dont get owt back on those the second or third time round?
All the computer clubs were filled with kids tape to taping like rabbits fucking in spring.
Long gone are the days of LERM - Oh wait it's called ripping now.
People wandering round with fist fulls of C90's filled with games. Twin cassette beat boxes going constantly. It was possible to get every game within a week of release. (Of course you'd get less C64 games on a C90 than speccy games.)
A C90 with 20 games on was a loss to the industry of say ?100 which in todays terms 20 years later would be ???
I would argue that there is less piracy now.
Or less games pirated, but with individual games costing ?30-?40 on release the industry probably bleats about it more than ever.
However, I can honestly, hand on heart, state that I have *never* paid for any single piece of PC software, *ever*. Nor will I.
I am happy being a pirate, I know I'm killing the industry - and do you know what? I couldn't give a flying fuck about it. The industry could collapse tomorrow and I couldn't give a damn - I'd find something else to do.
Aren't I a shithead, eh?
D.
AND I'LL NEVER, EVER PAY FOR SPIN!!!
Skarpo
;-)
*sends skarpo one on a c90*
Glad to be of service - if I think of anything else, I'll let you know.
D.
;-)
itd have been funnier if youd used a cartoon character or someat dude :P
maybe a ninja turtle to be in with the in crowd
Dunny, you disappoint me. You really do. I expected more from you.
Paying for Xbox 360 games? Tut tut.
Anywaaaay, I can't stand around here all day chatting, I've got games to download.
International terrorism won't fund itself you know!
Nah ... I didn't put that much thought into it really ...
1. Dunny indirectly/directly supports piracy.
2. Dunny makes SPIN
3. Dunny has a pic of Mr. Speccy in SPIN, whether it's a PD pic or not I don't know.
4. Skarpo "reverse engimaneers" the pic out of SPIN.
5. Skarpo inserts aforementioned pic as an avatar in WoS.
6. Skarpo laughs for no reason.
7. Mel the Bell has a different idea.
8. Skarpo doesn't quite get Mel the Bell's idea.
9. Skarpo leaves to have tea.
You can implement 10 and upwards if you want (MtB and/or others if interested).
Skarpo
:-!
10. *melthebell wanks cock furiously*
....
....
It's nice outside, isn't it..
What's hotswapping exactly?
Aye, it's turning out quite nice now in Manchester.