Original ST disks

Interceptor · August 2003

hi guys,

forgive the side-track, but does anyone have any original atari ST games/disks they'd lend me? it's for a disk preservation project, copy protection and all!

cheers

thx1138 · August 2003

I have a few - you can Private Message me on here, to save taking this forum off-topic

bcass · August 2003

Can you make images from copy protected discs for use on STEEM and such like? I'd love a non-bastardised (non-cracked) image of Oids.

Amigo · August 2003

i have st disks and know how to dump them. it's very easy and convenient pc floppy drives can read them. a couple are screwed up ( stupid ebay sellers didn't tell me THAT ) but i have maybe a dozen or so becasue i planned to get an ST but havent been able to get one yet. The codemasters ones will definitely give a crap message like " this is a copy - it's okay to make backups of your disks but you must own the original. contact codemasters and give them the code on the screen, they will then give you the pass to allow you to play your backup" or some crap like that. same thing on amiga disks.

if/when i have time ill go dig them out and dump them. i had done half once but are now gone, i think i may still have Prince of Persia somewhere though.

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[ This Message was edited by: Amigo on 2003-08-23 07:30 ]

Interceptor · August 2003

you cant dump raw analogue disk data (later converted to an usable image) using ST or PC hardware. there are various technical reasons for this. which i'll go into if you dont trust me :)

the images created after the dumping, processing & imaging will be usable in STEEM, we are working with the authors on this. the whole idea behind it is fully original games, with copy protection intect, dumped into an IPF file which contains not only the sector data, but also the descriptor information. the resulting images are slightly larger than you .ST or .MSA disk. so yes, you will be able to play non-bastardised games :)

bcass · August 2003

Thats great news. If you need an original Oids, I have it, but you must promise to look after it if I end up lending it to you!

Out of interest, what exactly are you using to make these perfect disc images? There are other formats whose emulators would benefit greatly from this, such as Amiga, and Acorn Archimedes. I have loads of Archimedes discs (most of them copy protected) that I would love to be able to transfer to PC for use on emus.

[ This Message was edited by: bcass on 2003-08-24 00:15 ]

The Mighty Dopethrone · August 2003

Staying off topic for a minute, I'd just like to recommend PLOP, a rather marvellous puzzle game for the ST.

www.digitallis.co.uk - should be in the downloads somewhere.

Interceptor · August 2003

the amiga has already benfitted from this technology, and there are now around 800 "original" disk images that are in IPF format. this format can support ST disk, Acorn Disks, C64 disks whatever. provided we get the originals dumped.

they are dumped using AMIGA hardware (which has a programmable software disk controller, ST and PC have a hardware controller which prvents *real* dumping), a bit more beefy than your standard system (68020 or better, 8mb ram or better, hard disk etc etc). if you have this type of hardware at home, you dont even need to send your originals anywhere. for those that havent, i can do this for you.

this is not some 'bright idea' that just came up, this has been over 2 years in the making and has proven itself. with Amiga titles now streaming out and new ones being added, the time has come to use this technology on other formats.

in short, an IPF is to disks what TZX is to tapes. possibly even more flexible. it stands for interchangable preservation format.

in a way, i'm sorry to bring this up in a speccy forum, but as a speccy fan myself i've come to see that most folk here are pretty smart.

thx1138 · August 2003

Um, not me........

I dont understand any of this technical malarky :(

anyway, I am digging my way through games room number 2, on an eBay trawl, and when I come to the ST disks, i'll send you a list

[ This Message was edited by: thx1138 on 2003-08-24 13:35 ]

bcass · August 2003

On 2003-08-24 13:32, Interceptor wrote:
they are dumped using AMIGA hardware (which has a programmable software disk controller, ST and PC have a hardware controller which prvents *real* dumping), a bit more beefy than your standard system (68020 or better, 8mb ram or better, hard disk etc etc). if you have this type of hardware at home, you dont even need to send your originals anywhere. for those that havent, i can do this for you.

this is not some 'bright idea' that just came up, this has been over 2 years in the making and has proven itself. with Amiga titles now streaming out and new ones being added, the time has come to use this technology on other formats.

in short, an IPF is to disks what TZX is to tapes. possibly even more flexible. it stands for interchangable preservation format.

in a way, i'm sorry to bring this up in a speccy forum, but as a speccy fan myself i've come to see that most folk here are pretty smart.

I have an Amiga, but not to that spec. I actualy have some more stuff I'd like preserving, from the ST and the Archimedes. I'll PM you my email and we can discuss this further.

thx1138 · August 2003

Seeing as how everyone in this thread has all the machines under the sun.

I will swap anything... for some BBC MASTER COMPACT software.

please, please, ++starts crying++

I have been looking everywhere, posting requests everywhere, for TWO YEARS now, and found nothing.

Amigo · August 2003

in a way, i'm sorry to bring this up in a speccy forum, but as a speccy fan myself i've come to see that most folk here are pretty smart.

thats okay. if it can be applied to any format it could be a new way to preserve +3 and other spectrum disks, if possible.

i think Interceptor is referring to the CAPS project for Amiga. I have many of these CAPS disks.

i dont know if the latest WinUAE now supports them, because i dont like the newer WinUAEs and have been sticking faithfully to an older version. But if not Emulator authors should be contacted and asked, given any technical info, etc. they need in order fro Emulators to support these perfect dumps.

i also have an Amiga, well 4, 3 if you dont count Amiga OSXL ( :roll: ) 2 if you don't count the CD32 whcih wouldnt be much help. So basically I've only got an Amiga 500 with extended to 1MB Ram and a A1200 with a hard drive. No power tower upgraded Amigas here, just can't afford them. besides Amiga1 is coming out and i want that baby :D

re-read Interceptor' post. well okay since ive got a A1200, as i said i have a decent hard drive and the 68k20, but believe it or not I'm not sure how much Ram I have ( turning red with embarassment ) but I can give it a shot if you can give me the Software i need.

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[ This Message was edited by: Amigo on 2003-08-25 06:44 ]

Andrew Barker · August 2003

Yer he's talking about CAPS, I didn't know they'd made a tool yet to dump RAW images of ST Disks yet ;)..

Hehe, the TZX Team have already submitted about 100 of those disks for the Amiga...

Being an Amiga owner myself of course and waiting eargerly for OS4 !

The only ST disk I have is Armour-Geddon which I have no clue if it works.
BTW is there a CAPS tool for ST disks that works on the Amiga, or presumably the PC..
I don't think the ST used a FDC like the Amiga....

Hmm off to the CAPS project page to see what's going on ;)

Regards

Andy (Spectrum Preservation Projects Manager)

Interceptor · August 2003

Andy, it's the otherway round, the Amiga didnt use an FDC like the ST. thus the amiga can be programmed to to the following....

the CAPS dumping tool is actually very very dumb. it reads, the RAW magnetic contents of the disk, including variances from different reads, and dumps this file into a .raw image. at this point is doesnt contain any file format whatsoever. thus the same tool is used to dump ST, PC Achimidies, whatever data into a .raw file.

there is an analyser which has been coded which can decode the data (much like a FDC) into a format that is decribed. new formats are undescibed and need to be analysed by hand. the guy who wrote this analyser is one VERY clever guy.

the problem with ST disks right now, is that there just hasnt been enough dumped, around 70-80 by now i suspect, and it's difficult to write descriptors for them until you see them!

so, if you've already dumped amiga disks for CAPS, use exactly the method to dump you ST ones!

all i'm offering to do, is dump games in peoples behalf since many ST people dont have a sufficient amiga.

is this making sense yet? i'm seeing a lot of people arent grasping it :(

Andrew Barker · August 2003

Interceptor, indeed I do know what you're talking about.. hehe some images are 11MB before they're ZIPed/LHAed ;)....

The IPF files are the resultant purified files... I suppose it's the same that we do for TZXs... we make a more pure digital stream from an Analogue source WAV/VOC -> TZX..

I know where you're comming from. I too have hassled people on CSS and here to loan me their 3" disks for preservation. It's been a long haul and people are reluctant to lend me their disks. Fortunately, I've sent hardware to some people so the seeds have been sown... We're almost 50% through the SDP project (of known disks) so I think we will make the new target I've set.

I'll dump than ST disk and submit it...
My humble miggy is sitting waiting for something to do.. hehe besides running ASP and rebooting faster than my PCs ;))).

A noble project though, hope someone sends you those disks. All preservation is needed so I wish you luck !

Regards

Andy

Amigo · August 2003

@ Interceptor, once again I can give it a try. If it's done using the exact same method as for Amiga disks, fine, but last I checked the CAPS team didn't have the software to do this available on their site. I just get too paranoid about my disks so if i can happen to do them myself id rather give that a shot first. If not then I may send you disks you dont have, though i dont have that many and you may have done them already.

Actually i love the Pompey Pirates disks and all those ( which is pretty much all you can get fro 99% of ST games, few aren't cracked ) but regular good dumps is a great idea.

let me know where i can get what i need to do this, and any instructions i should follow so that i do it correctly. if you want me to mail you i will. just let me know.

I think you should get a webpage up, even a simple one with some info.

Arjun · August 2003

Erm... are any of these games on a website that can be downloaded from? Ever since LGD went down, I've been having a tough time finding ST games on the Net.

Amigo · August 2003

Little Green Desktop went DOWN???????

Amigo · August 2003

it did not go down, its exactly how i last remembered it.

the only thing that changed, and this was a good while back, was they now have you login to one of two of their ftps, which I COULD NEVER GET INTO, and i know i wasn't doing anything wrong. my only guess isthat it's max users must always be reached and to get in is a pain in the butt. since then ive never ben able to get in there.

but i know other places with all the Pompey, etc. disks just like LGD. ill find them again and give you the urls if you want. a couple of them are actually better than the way LGD has them listed; contents of disks and what not. pretty good.

theres a bunch here for you to start:

http://www.planetemu.net/html/sets/sets.php3?cat=atarist

Arjun · August 2003

Amigo, some years ago, LGD was a lot different. It had every disk from the Automation, D-Bug and Pompeye Pirate boys! All were downloadble from the home page (which had a different URL btw).

After being down for some months, LGD did return with a new look, and new home page. All the downloads were, however, confined to FTP. This is the LGD we know now, but I think I preferred the older one. :)

Amigo · August 2003

i know it was different, but it wasn't ALOT different and i know what they had. and i dont think it was so many years ago.

anyway theres other places with all the same disks.

Interceptor · August 2003

Amigo, (and anyone else in the same position)

give me an email address and i'll get the CAPS transfer disk sent to you. you'll need to DMS it back to a floppy. you can use PM if you dont want your email address made public.

additionally, you'll need a method to transfer the image either back to you pc so you can zip it, or lha it and send it direct from the amiga. serial link is easiest, but VERY slow! i myself use ethernet.

being paranoid about your disks is normal, i'd prefer people to dump their own anyway, but for those that cant, i'd much rather do it for them as opposed to letting the disks bitrot.

Amigo · August 2003

okay, ive PMd you with my email.

i transfer back and forth using disks, its a pain but i dont want to build or buy a cable.

ill use dms2adf and Tequilla.

Andrew Barker · August 2003

Ah, been and checked the CAPS web site, and it would appear I just have to use my existing boot disk and dump them as usual but on my Amiga :).

Not a problem.... no messing with floppies once dumped either as I have a ZIP drive in mine.

Need to get a LAN card (possiblt PCMCIA) so I can network and get on the net when I get OS4 soon !!

Regards

Andy

The Mighty Dopethrone · August 2003

On 2003-08-26 08:14, Amigo wrote:
the only thing that changed, and this was a good while back, was they now have you login to one of two of their ftps, which I COULD NEVER GET INTO, and i know i wasn't doing anything wrong. my only guess isthat it's max users must always be reached and to get in is a pain in the butt. since then ive never ben able to get in there.

I am now looking for the login info for the FTP sites - while trying to find out the state of the LGD for rickdangerous.co.uk I mailed Richard Davey about it, & he said the anonymous FTP wasn't working at the time - and I couldn't find any way to get hold of a "proper" login.

but i know other places with all the Pompey, etc. disks just like LGD.

As do I. I now have all the Automation, Cynix, Medway Boys and FOF/Superior disks. But, irritatingly, the site I know doesn't have the PP disks.

I'm not sticking the link up here. Interested people should email me for the URL.

Arjun · August 2003

MD, I would be interested in the URL. Where do I email you?

Amigo · August 2003

On 2003-08-28 14:12, The Mighty Dopethrone wrote:
I am now looking for the login info for the FTP sites - while trying to find out the state of the LGD for rickdangerous.co.uk I mailed Richard Davey about it, & he said the anonymous FTP wasn't working at the time - and I couldn't find any way to get hold of a "proper" login.

maybe thats in then. since it started that way i wear i could NEVER get into either of their FTPs. and i didnt bother emailing cause it has that whole shtick about if one cant login to try this or tha ftp client or whatveer so i never botheerd asking.

On 2003-08-28 14:12, The Mighty Dopethrone I'm not sticking the link up here. Interested people should email me for the URL.

i dont blame you, but i bookmarked some ftp sites with all the disks including PP, just that my favourites are so many now to go through is a pain.

id liek to know which sites you know. i may have some of them bookmarked alreday but its a mess. ill pm you. thanks Mighty.

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[ This Message was edited by: Amigo on 2003-08-29 08:57 ]

Amigo · August 2003

On 2003-08-26 14:43, Interceptor wrote:
Amigo, (and anyone else in the same position)

give me an email address and i'll get the CAPS transfer disk sent to you. you'll need to DMS it back to a floppy. you can use PM if you dont want your email address made public.

additionally, you'll need a method to transfer the image either back to you pc so you can zip it, or lha it and send it direct from the amiga. serial link is easiest, but VERY slow! i myself use ethernet.

being paranoid about your disks is normal, i'd prefer people to dump their own anyway, but for those that cant, i'd much rather do it for them as opposed to letting the disks bitrot.

got the Software, wehn i get a chance ill dig out the 1200 and follw the directions, might as wel do some amiga disks while im at it. thanks Interceptor.

barkie · August 2003

There are loads of sites with every cracked ST game you could imagine.

It took me a while to find them but i reckon i could just about get any game ever cracked for the ST except for a few that the people on the the Atari forum site are still hunting.

If anyone is looking for a certain game PM me and i will send it or point you in the dirction of it.

Interceptor · August 2003

thanks for the generous offer, i'll forgive you for not reading the thread properly. ;)

I'm (we're) looking for ORIGINAL disks, for a disk preservation project.

unless of course you're responding to the "LGD ftp has gone down" posts which have weeded in here, in which case please dont encourage them, bloomin hijackers! :)

cheers!

[ This Message was edited by: Interceptor on 2003-08-31 22:11 ]

The Mighty Dopethrone · August 2003

On 2003-08-29 07:57, Arjun wrote:
MD, I would be interested in the URL. Where do I email you?

On 2003-08-29 08:51, Amigo wrote:
id liek to know which sites you know. i may have some of them bookmarked alreday but its a mess. ill pm you. thanks Mighty.

Just emailed both of you...

On 2003-08-29 08:51, Amigo wrote:
maybe thats in then. since it started that way i wear i could NEVER get into either of their FTPs. and i didnt bother emailing cause it has that whole shtick about if one cant login to try this or tha ftp client or whatveer so i never botheerd asking.

I saw that, but emailed anyway, stating very clearly that I knew what I was doing with FTP clients and the like, and that I'd have no problems using the anonymous FTP if only I could understand what he was wibbling about in the instructions on how to do the anonymous login.

Then I found out the anonymous login wasn't up and running!

Original ST disks

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