I'm not angry about it at all - I'm just standing up for what I believe to be right and wrong and something that IMO could only damage the good name of the Spectrum community.
Okay, let's put Steve Cain's tribute aside a bit and focus on the Simon Butler issue. From what I see we agree that:
a) It's an honest piece.
b) It does offer insight into Ian's character.
c) It's an interesting read.
d) It's a little insensitive at certain points.
e) Some of it could possibly come across as offensive to his family members.
What we don't seem to agree on is whether this is the kind of write-up specchums want to see more or less of. C'mon then folks, let's hear your opinion on this!
Okay, let's put Steve Cain's tribute aside a bit and focus on the Simon Butler issue. From what I see we agree that:
a) It's an honest piece.
b) It does offer insight into Ian's character.
c) It's an interesting read.
d) It's a little insensitive at certain points.
e) Some of it could possibly come across as offensive to his family members.
What we don't seem to agree on is whether this is the kind of write-up specchums want to see more or less of. C'mon then folks, let's hear your opinion on this!
I find it unbelievable we are actually having this conversation after you have conceded points d) and e)
I really think it's a sad reflection on society today if people actually think it's in good taste to vote "yes" to your question.
We are a democracy however so voting power should win the day but as we are dealing with such a small sample of data it really won't be representative of the true feeling on the subject.
I don't think the obituries should sugar coat things. Had I been writing Ian Weatherburn's obit, from the point of view of the current author, I would have chosen different words, but the message would have been substantially similar. This isn't about macho-ness. There's not much point in a list of obits that say "He was a great guy" regardless of what the person was like.
Whatever you write, it may be offensive to _someone_. A candy-coated obit for Ian Weatherburn might be offensive to someone who was on his wrong side. There's nothing 'macho' about wanting to read about the real person in an obit.
You've written several paragraphs about this now - how about having a go at rewriting the tribute?
I've already said that if I knew the guy personally and thought my insights were of REAL value to the spectrum community then I would be only too happy to write something more worthy of a section named "Tribute"
So your saying you should run a community as a dictatorship? - Absolute rubbish!
No, I'm saying it should be more like an Anarchy - people doing stuff off their own bat because they want to, working with other people who they freely choose when they like, and nobody being in control of anything beyond their own personal projects.
Like it or not, most (all?) projects in the retroscene are friendly dictatorships - the person who runs the project calls the shots, and no one has the right to over-rule him, even when someone else tries to call a vote on something.
Those who do the work call the shots
Those who don't can make suggestions, but not demands - and they don't have the right to get uppity when their suggestion is turned down.
I've already said that if I knew the guy personally and thought my insights were of REAL value to the spectrum community then I would be only too happy to write something more worthy of a section named "Tribute"
As I am neither I will on this occasion decline.
I don't think anyone will object to a bit of re-editing or rewording.
No, I'm saying it should be more like an Anarchy - people doing stuff off their own bat because they want to, working with other people who they freely choose when they like, and nobody being in control of anything beyond their own personal projects.
Like it or not, most (all?) projects in the retroscene are friendly dictatorships - the person who runs the project calls the shots, and no one has the right to over-rule him, even when someone else tries to call a vote on something.
Those who do the work call the shots
Those who don't can make suggestions, but not demands - and they don't have the right to get uppity when their suggestion is turned down.
I agree with this up to a point. I realise that the people that run this site or any given project should have the final say but as you have said, as a member of a community everyone should have, at the very least, a "voice"
I don't think I have "demanded" for the tributes in question to be edited or taken down and nor do I think I have been "uppity" about my views. I've just defended my position on an emotive subject as vigorously as other people have defended theirs.
In my humble opinion, they probably shouldn't be, no. I certainly wouldn't have written the tribute in that style.
[EDIT]I don't think they should be removed though, unless his family specifically asks for them to be removed.
So you should wait till a family member has been offended by the comments and then goes on to take the time to complain before they are edited or removed?
Is that really the kind of community we want to portray ourselves as?
I don't think anyone will object to a bit of re-editing or rewording.
When I first raised this topic, in a previous thread, I was conscious that I might appear to be criticising Arjun's capable editing (drawn from his own professional experience). Arjun has brought a lot more to the site than I am ever likely to. But perhaps now the subject has returned I should say that I do have much experience in writing about dead people and it is always challenging. Death often effects a community and this community is made up of people who search specifically for Spectrum related website, including relatives (ie they are not coming here specifically for the dead celeb gossip/banter) A second edit often helps.
Below I have added a bit more tribute emphasis to the intro and edited out one or two superfluous barbed comments - without pouring water on Simon's honesty. I still doesn't do IW justice as I have done no research at all nor found a second opinion. But just this touch edit does put a bit of balance back in and make it slightly more in keeping with the title of the page 'Speccy Heroes'
Ian Weatherburn
(? ? early 90's, softography)
Ian Weatherburn was a Spectrum games pioneer and a significant influence on the realisation of the Spectrum as a computer with real potential to entertain. Weatherburn?s early creation, The Alchemist (1983) was one of the fist ever attempts at a collect and use arcade adventure, a game type that was refined and endured through the Spectrum?s most successful years by other coders - in the shape of the Dizzy series as well as many other Spectrum games. Weatherburn?s creative ability to tap straight into the imagination of a child was continued in games like NOMAD and The Neverending Story. His versatility beyond these can be seen in the coding of the Leaderboard golf games for the Spectrum, which emphatically raised the bar for that genre.
Ian Weatherburn remains largely an enigmatic figure in the Spectrum community because of his reclusive nature and eccentric habits. A persona that was magnified when news of Ian's tragic death (apparently he commited suicide) hit the community. Simon Butler, who worked together with Ian on many titles, tells us more about Ian:
I met Ian way back in the mists of time at the Imagine offices and he treated me then with pretty much the same disdain he did until the end of our working relationship together.
But that was just Ian.
He was a self-absorbed with few people skills, which worked to his detriment in the social arena but was one of his strengths in the games field.
This distance that was always present between Ian and the rest of the human race only brought him closer to the thing he was best at, writing games. His games were more than usually well-crafted with a lot of man-hours put into each.
He was sarcastic to a point where it was almost painful to hear some of the things he said. His idea of humour was almost always at somebody else's expense...but again this was just part of Ian Weatherburn and you either got over it, ignored it or if you couldn't, then stay away.
We worked quite extensively, just the two of us in our freelance days and because of his intractable manner he always said exactly what he wanted and left no room for error. Would that other coders in years to come had been as blunt or as focused.
There was no room for niceties, he was a man of few words so whenever work started, work was all there was and you did it until you finished; then it was time to clock off until tomorrow. No shooting the breeze or winding down, just down tools, goodbye, see you tomorrow.
While other, younger people came into the industry and matured and grew, Ian stayed a kind of Peter Pan figure in the background. His hands later came to hold the reins of his own company but he was always a figure on the edge of things and even though the whole ball of wax was his, he never entered centre stage.
His only true failing that led to his downfall was his trust in people he considered friends.
Ian was led astray and his financial dealings only got worse. It was sad to see but, Ian being the person he was, would not take kindly to being offered advice and told he had made a mistake. His judgement was absolute and no-one could tell him otherwise.
We parted on far from good terms.
Ian could have, I can only conjecture, been a pretty damn good coder, but I believe his communications skills or lack of would have held him back.
Most likely he would have gone Stateside and followed his first love, the almighty dollar.
I can see him now, alone but unconcerned in a house with a beach view, a fast car in the garage and the world's dodgiest collection of 80s female rockers in his cd collection.
He could have been happy. But sadly he never was.
Below I have added a bit more tribute emphasis to the intro and edited out one or two superfluous barbed comments - without pouring water on Simon's honesty. I still doesn't do IW justice as I have done no research at all nor found a second opinion.
I think that re-edit is quite good - I certainly didn't feel stung by the end of it.
When I first raised this topic, in a previous thread, I was conscious that I might appear to be criticising Arjun's capable editing (drawn from his own professional experience). Arjun has brought a lot more to the site than I am ever likely to. But perhaps now the subject has returned I should say that I do have much experience in writing about dead people and it is always challenging. Death often effects a community and this community is made up of people who search specifically for Spectrum related website, including relatives (ie they are not coming here specifically for the dead celeb gossip/banter) A second edit often helps.
Below I have added a bit more tribute emphasis to the intro and edited out one or two superfluous barbed comments - without pouring water on Simon's honesty. I still doesn't do IW justice as I have done no research at all nor found a second opinion. But just this touch edit does put a bit of balance back in and make it slightly more in keeping with the title of the page 'Speccy Heroes'
Ian Weatherburn
(? – early 90's, softography)
Ian Weatherburn was a Spectrum games pioneer and a significant influence on the realisation of the Spectrum as a computer with real potential to entertain. Weatherburn’s early creation, The Alchemist (1983) was one of the fist ever attempts at a collect and use arcade adventure, a game type that was refined and endured through the Spectrum’s most successful years by other coders - in the shape of the Dizzy series as well as many other Spectrum games. Weatherburn’s creative ability to tap straight into the imagination of a child was continued in games like NOMAD and The Neverending Story. His versatility beyond these can be seen in the coding of the Leaderboard golf games for the Spectrum, which emphatically raised the bar for that genre.
Ian Weatherburn remains largely an enigmatic figure in the Spectrum community because of his reclusive nature and eccentric habits. A persona that was magnified when news of Ian's tragic death (apparently he commited suicide) hit the community. Simon Butler, who worked together with Ian on many titles, tells us more about Ian:
I met Ian way back in the mists of time at the Imagine offices and he treated me then with pretty much the same disdain he did until the end of our working relationship together.
But that was just Ian.
He was a self-absorbed with few people skills, which worked to his detriment in the social arena but was one of his strengths in the games field.
This distance that was always present between Ian and the rest of the human race only brought him closer to the thing he was best at, writing games. His games were more than usually well-crafted with a lot of man-hours put into each.
He was sarcastic to a point where it was almost painful to hear some of the things he said. His idea of humour was almost always at somebody else's expense...but again this was just part of Ian Weatherburn and you either got over it, ignored it or if you couldn't, then stay away.
We worked quite extensively, just the two of us in our freelance days and because of his intractable manner he always said exactly what he wanted and left no room for error. Would that other coders in years to come had been as blunt or as focused.
There was no room for niceties, he was a man of few words so whenever work started, work was all there was and you did it until you finished; then it was time to clock off until tomorrow. No shooting the breeze or winding down, just down tools, goodbye, see you tomorrow.
While other, younger people came into the industry and matured and grew, Ian stayed a kind of Peter Pan figure in the background. His hands later came to hold the reins of his own company but he was always a figure on the edge of things and even though the whole ball of wax was his, he never entered centre stage.
His only true failing that led to his downfall was his trust in people he considered friends.
Ian was led astray and his financial dealings only got worse. It was sad to see but, Ian being the person he was, would not take kindly to being offered advice and told he had made a mistake. His judgement was absolute and no-one could tell him otherwise.
We parted on far from good terms.
Ian could have, I can only conjecture, been a pretty damn good coder, but I believe his communications skills or lack of would have held him back.
Most likely he would have gone Stateside and followed his first love, the almighty dollar.
I can see him now, alone but unconcerned in a house with a beach view, a fast car in the garage and the world's dodgiest collection of 80s female rockers in his cd collection.
He could have been happy. But sadly he never was.
Yikes ... ok, my ADD must be working overtime or something ... could you highlight in red what you changed and perhaps some other colour what you excised?
When I first raised this topic, in a previous thread, I was conscious that I might appear to be criticising Arjun's capable editing (drawn from his own professional experience). Arjun has brought a lot more to the site than I am ever likely to. But perhaps now the subject has returned I should say that I do have much experience in writing about dead people and it is always challenging. Death often effects a community and this community is made up of people who search specifically for Spectrum related website, including relatives (ie they are not coming here specifically for the dead celeb gossip/banter) A second edit often helps.
Below I have added a bit more tribute emphasis to the intro and edited out one or two superfluous barbed comments - without pouring water on Simon's honesty. I still doesn't do IW justice as I have done no research at all nor found a second opinion. But just this touch edit does put a bit of balance back in and make it slightly more in keeping with the title of the page 'Speccy Heroes'
Ian Weatherburn
(? ? early 90's, softography)
Ian Weatherburn was a Spectrum games pioneer and a significant influence on the realisation of the Spectrum as a computer with real potential to entertain. Weatherburn?s early creation, The Alchemist (1983) was one of the fist ever attempts at a collect and use arcade adventure, a game type that was refined and endured through the Spectrum?s most successful years by other coders - in the shape of the Dizzy series as well as many other Spectrum games. Weatherburn?s creative ability to tap straight into the imagination of a child was continued in games like NOMAD and The Neverending Story. His versatility beyond these can be seen in the coding of the Leaderboard golf games for the Spectrum, which emphatically raised the bar for that genre.
Ian Weatherburn remains largely an enigmatic figure in the Spectrum community because of his reclusive nature and eccentric habits. A persona that was magnified when news of Ian's tragic death (apparently he commited suicide) hit the community. Simon Butler, who worked together with Ian on many titles, tells us more about Ian:
I met Ian way back in the mists of time at the Imagine offices and he treated me then with pretty much the same disdain he did until the end of our working relationship together.
But that was just Ian.
He was a self-absorbed with few people skills, which worked to his detriment in the social arena but was one of his strengths in the games field.
This distance that was always present between Ian and the rest of the human race only brought him closer to the thing he was best at, writing games. His games were more than usually well-crafted with a lot of man-hours put into each.
He was sarcastic to a point where it was almost painful to hear some of the things he said. His idea of humour was almost always at somebody else's expense...but again this was just part of Ian Weatherburn and you either got over it, ignored it or if you couldn't, then stay away.
We worked quite extensively, just the two of us in our freelance days and because of his intractable manner he always said exactly what he wanted and left no room for error. Would that other coders in years to come had been as blunt or as focused.
There was no room for niceties, he was a man of few words so whenever work started, work was all there was and you did it until you finished; then it was time to clock off until tomorrow. No shooting the breeze or winding down, just down tools, goodbye, see you tomorrow.
While other, younger people came into the industry and matured and grew, Ian stayed a kind of Peter Pan figure in the background. His hands later came to hold the reins of his own company but he was always a figure on the edge of things and even though the whole ball of wax was his, he never entered centre stage.
His only true failing that led to his downfall was his trust in people he considered friends.
Ian was led astray and his financial dealings only got worse. It was sad to see but, Ian being the person he was, would not take kindly to being offered advice and told he had made a mistake. His judgement was absolute and no-one could tell him otherwise.
We parted on far from good terms.
Ian could have, I can only conjecture, been a pretty damn good coder, but I believe his communications skills or lack of would have held him back.
Most likely he would have gone Stateside and followed his first love, the almighty dollar.
I can see him now, alone but unconcerned in a house with a beach view, a fast car in the garage and the world's dodgiest collection of 80s female rockers in his cd collection.
He could have been happy. But sadly he never was.
I personally find this much more acceptable - Thanks Jumping Stack.
So you should wait till a family member has been offended by the comments and then goes on to take the time to complain before they are edited or removed?
Is that really the kind of community we want to portray ourselves as?
I hardly think that one single tribute from the whole WoS site/community is going to portray the entire community in a bad light. I think people are big enough to understand that the tribute is the opinion of the writer, not the whole WoS community.
My opinion for what it's worth is that the first time I read Simon Butlers piece I was rather shocked at the abruptness of IW's personality failings. On first read it does seem almost like SB is wreaking out a personal vendetta, but on subsequent reads I don't think this is the case.
It's certainly not the way I would have approached an obituary, but I do like the fact that it paints a picture of IW we would never have known about, BUT there should have been some good points to balance it out.
I like Jumping Stacks new intro - it at least prepares you for what is coming!
I hardly think that one single tribute from the whole WoS site/community is going to portray the entire community in a bad light. I think people are big enough to understand that the tribute is the opinion of the writer, not the whole WoS community.
No, but it sets a standard that others may follow in the future so one insensitive article leads to two and then three.
I believe I posted my opinions on the Ian Weatherburn tribute in one of the other threads but I'll repeat it again.
Tribute 1. a gift, testimonial, compliment, or the like, given as due or in acknowledgment of gratitude or esteem.
Regardless of whether he was the biggest asshole on the planet a tribute is supposed to be just that...a tribute...focus on his positive aspects, not his negative ones.
The 'tribute' seems to deal mainly with his personality defects and little on his contribution to the speccy scene.
If there was/is nothing good to say about him then don't say it at all. Rather than just a photo and a lived/died date.
I'm pretty easy going but I still think any 'shit dealing' after someone is dead is about as low as you can get.
I personally think it should stay as it is, but I don't want to write a long diatribe about it.
I would rather read the truth than a bunch of sugary partially-made up stuff.
This applies when I die too.
I would rather read the truth than a bunch of sugary partially-made up stuff.
This applies when I die too.
Andrew
Well there is another alternative......not say anything at all. No need for sugary made up stuff and no need to disrespect the dead or living family.
let the dead rest in peace and all that.
..Set the scene.
There you are in church at your sons funeral, he had mental problems/personality defects but he was your son and you loved him.
Some random tosser gets up and starts giving a speech about what a shitbag your son was and you shouldn't be upset by what he says because its the 'truth'
A. Do you nod in approval because it was the truth
B. Do you respect the the opinion and think 'well he has the right to say it'
C. Do you jump over the pews and kick his ass into next week.
Well there is another alternative......not say anything at all. No need for sugary made up stuff and no need to disrespect the dead or living family.
let the dead rest in peace and all that.
..Set the scene.
There you are in church at your sons funeral, he had mental problems/personality defects but he was your son and you loved him.
Some random tosser gets up and starts giving a speech about what a shitbag your son was and you shouldn't be upset by what he says because its the 'truth'
A. Do you nod in approval because it was the truth
B. Do you respect the the opinion and think 'well he has the right to say it'
C. Do you jump over the pews and kick his ass into next week.
Well there is another alternative......not say anything at all. No need for sugary made up stuff and no need to disrespect the dead or living family.
let the dead rest in peace and all that.
..Set the scene.
There you are in church at your sons funeral, he had mental problems/personality defects but he was your son and you loved him.
Some random tosser gets up and starts giving a speech about what a shitbag your son was and you shouldn't be upset by what he says because its the 'truth'
A. Do you nod in approval because it was the truth
B. Do you respect the the opinion and think 'well he has the right to say it'
C. Do you jump over the pews and kick his ass into next week.
I'd be choosing C.
The only flaw in that is Simon Butler wasn't a 'random tosser' but a work colleague, he's not doing in front of the deceased's friends and family and it was the truth.
I can't believe one entry in the tribute section is causing so friction within the community. Having said that I did quite like JS's rewrite and would be quite happy if it went into the tribute section.
The only flaw in that is Simon Butler wasn't a 'random tosser' but a work colleague, he's not doing in front of the deceased's friends and family and it was the truth.
Work colleagues are random tossers...least the ones I work with! and I am sure would be seen as such by the immediate family.
And as it is posted on a freely accessible website it could well be in front of his friends and family.
Edit: oh and again...just because something is the truth doesn't mean you should spout it out...there is still such a thing as knowing when to keep your mouth shut and social etiquette.
I understand a lot of speccy nerds lack 'social skills' so this might not quite apply here :D
The only flaw in that is Simon Butler wasn't a 'random tosser' but a work colleague, he's not doing in front of the deceased's friends and family and it was the truth.
I can't believe one entry in the tribute section is causing so friction within the community. Having said that I did quite like JS's rewrite and would be quite happy if it went into the tribute section.
Im sure he would be classed as a "random tosser" to Ian Weatherburn's family
Would you stand up in church and give a 'tribute' like that in front of the family at his funeral?....very very doubtful...so don't write it either..
With all due respect, this is not a funeral, and that is a classic example of a "straw man" argument.
While I would have worded the article much differently if I had been the author, I would have still substantially had the same thrust for the obituary; Jumping Stack's rewrite is closer to how I would have worded it.
Comments
I'm not angry about it at all - I'm just standing up for what I believe to be right and wrong and something that IMO could only damage the good name of the Spectrum community.
a) It's an honest piece.
b) It does offer insight into Ian's character.
c) It's an interesting read.
d) It's a little insensitive at certain points.
e) Some of it could possibly come across as offensive to his family members.
What we don't seem to agree on is whether this is the kind of write-up specchums want to see more or less of. C'mon then folks, let's hear your opinion on this!
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
I find it unbelievable we are actually having this conversation after you have conceded points d) and e)
I really think it's a sad reflection on society today if people actually think it's in good taste to vote "yes" to your question.
We are a democracy however so voting power should win the day but as we are dealing with such a small sample of data it really won't be representative of the true feeling on the subject.
No, we are not a democracy. This is a community - it's action that counts, not votes or words.
You've written several paragraphs about this now - how about having a go at rewriting the tribute?
In my humble opinion, they probably shouldn't be, no. I certainly wouldn't have written the tribute in that style.
[EDIT]I don't think they should be removed though, unless his family specifically asks for them to be removed.
Whatever you write, it may be offensive to _someone_. A candy-coated obit for Ian Weatherburn might be offensive to someone who was on his wrong side. There's nothing 'macho' about wanting to read about the real person in an obit.
So your saying you should run a community as a dictatorship? - Absolute rubbish!
I've already said that if I knew the guy personally and thought my insights were of REAL value to the spectrum community then I would be only too happy to write something more worthy of a section named "Tribute"
As I am neither I will on this occasion decline.
No, I'm saying it should be more like an Anarchy - people doing stuff off their own bat because they want to, working with other people who they freely choose when they like, and nobody being in control of anything beyond their own personal projects.
Like it or not, most (all?) projects in the retroscene are friendly dictatorships - the person who runs the project calls the shots, and no one has the right to over-rule him, even when someone else tries to call a vote on something.
Those who do the work call the shots
Those who don't can make suggestions, but not demands - and they don't have the right to get uppity when their suggestion is turned down.
I don't think anyone will object to a bit of re-editing or rewording.
I agree with this up to a point. I realise that the people that run this site or any given project should have the final say but as you have said, as a member of a community everyone should have, at the very least, a "voice"
I don't think I have "demanded" for the tributes in question to be edited or taken down and nor do I think I have been "uppity" about my views. I've just defended my position on an emotive subject as vigorously as other people have defended theirs.
So you should wait till a family member has been offended by the comments and then goes on to take the time to complain before they are edited or removed?
Is that really the kind of community we want to portray ourselves as?
The Ian Weatherburn one however is in poor taste, it's also linked to from Wikipedia, were people aware of this
When I first raised this topic, in a previous thread, I was conscious that I might appear to be criticising Arjun's capable editing (drawn from his own professional experience). Arjun has brought a lot more to the site than I am ever likely to. But perhaps now the subject has returned I should say that I do have much experience in writing about dead people and it is always challenging. Death often effects a community and this community is made up of people who search specifically for Spectrum related website, including relatives (ie they are not coming here specifically for the dead celeb gossip/banter) A second edit often helps.
Below I have added a bit more tribute emphasis to the intro and edited out one or two superfluous barbed comments - without pouring water on Simon's honesty. I still doesn't do IW justice as I have done no research at all nor found a second opinion. But just this touch edit does put a bit of balance back in and make it slightly more in keeping with the title of the page 'Speccy Heroes'
Ian Weatherburn
(? ? early 90's, softography)
Ian Weatherburn was a Spectrum games pioneer and a significant influence on the realisation of the Spectrum as a computer with real potential to entertain. Weatherburn?s early creation, The Alchemist (1983) was one of the fist ever attempts at a collect and use arcade adventure, a game type that was refined and endured through the Spectrum?s most successful years by other coders - in the shape of the Dizzy series as well as many other Spectrum games. Weatherburn?s creative ability to tap straight into the imagination of a child was continued in games like NOMAD and The Neverending Story. His versatility beyond these can be seen in the coding of the Leaderboard golf games for the Spectrum, which emphatically raised the bar for that genre.
Ian Weatherburn remains largely an enigmatic figure in the Spectrum community because of his reclusive nature and eccentric habits. A persona that was magnified when news of Ian's tragic death (apparently he commited suicide) hit the community. Simon Butler, who worked together with Ian on many titles, tells us more about Ian:
I met Ian way back in the mists of time at the Imagine offices and he treated me then with pretty much the same disdain he did until the end of our working relationship together.
But that was just Ian.
He was a self-absorbed with few people skills, which worked to his detriment in the social arena but was one of his strengths in the games field.
This distance that was always present between Ian and the rest of the human race only brought him closer to the thing he was best at, writing games. His games were more than usually well-crafted with a lot of man-hours put into each.
He was sarcastic to a point where it was almost painful to hear some of the things he said. His idea of humour was almost always at somebody else's expense...but again this was just part of Ian Weatherburn and you either got over it, ignored it or if you couldn't, then stay away.
We worked quite extensively, just the two of us in our freelance days and because of his intractable manner he always said exactly what he wanted and left no room for error. Would that other coders in years to come had been as blunt or as focused.
There was no room for niceties, he was a man of few words so whenever work started, work was all there was and you did it until you finished; then it was time to clock off until tomorrow. No shooting the breeze or winding down, just down tools, goodbye, see you tomorrow.
While other, younger people came into the industry and matured and grew, Ian stayed a kind of Peter Pan figure in the background. His hands later came to hold the reins of his own company but he was always a figure on the edge of things and even though the whole ball of wax was his, he never entered centre stage.
His only true failing that led to his downfall was his trust in people he considered friends.
Ian was led astray and his financial dealings only got worse. It was sad to see but, Ian being the person he was, would not take kindly to being offered advice and told he had made a mistake. His judgement was absolute and no-one could tell him otherwise.
We parted on far from good terms.
Ian could have, I can only conjecture, been a pretty damn good coder, but I believe his communications skills or lack of would have held him back.
Most likely he would have gone Stateside and followed his first love, the almighty dollar.
I can see him now, alone but unconcerned in a house with a beach view, a fast car in the garage and the world's dodgiest collection of 80s female rockers in his cd collection.
He could have been happy. But sadly he never was.
I think that re-edit is quite good - I certainly didn't feel stung by the end of it.
Yikes ... ok, my ADD must be working overtime or something ... could you highlight in red what you changed and perhaps some other colour what you excised?
I personally find this much more acceptable - Thanks Jumping Stack.
What do you think Arjun?
I hardly think that one single tribute from the whole WoS site/community is going to portray the entire community in a bad light. I think people are big enough to understand that the tribute is the opinion of the writer, not the whole WoS community.
It's certainly not the way I would have approached an obituary, but I do like the fact that it paints a picture of IW we would never have known about, BUT there should have been some good points to balance it out.
I like Jumping Stacks new intro - it at least prepares you for what is coming!
No, but it sets a standard that others may follow in the future so one insensitive article leads to two and then three.
Tribute
1. a gift, testimonial, compliment, or the like, given as due or in acknowledgment of gratitude or esteem.
Regardless of whether he was the biggest asshole on the planet a tribute is supposed to be just that...a tribute...focus on his positive aspects, not his negative ones.
The 'tribute' seems to deal mainly with his personality defects and little on his contribution to the speccy scene.
If there was/is nothing good to say about him then don't say it at all. Rather than just a photo and a lived/died date.
I'm pretty easy going but I still think any 'shit dealing' after someone is dead is about as low as you can get.
In which case, all history books and most obituary columns in the broadsheets have to be as low as you can get, too.
Well no surprise there that the media is as low as you can get generally...History books are usually not written as 'tributes'.
Would you stand up in church and give a 'tribute' like that in front of the family at his funeral?....very very doubtful...so don't write it either.
There is also a big difference in a famous person/historical figure being at the mercy of the press and a regular guy.
I really can't catch my breath.
If you are going to base your arguments on such irrelevance then likewise
I would rather read the truth than a bunch of sugary partially-made up stuff.
This applies when I die too.
Andrew
Well there is another alternative......not say anything at all. No need for sugary made up stuff and no need to disrespect the dead or living family.
let the dead rest in peace and all that.
..Set the scene.
There you are in church at your sons funeral, he had mental problems/personality defects but he was your son and you loved him.
Some random tosser gets up and starts giving a speech about what a shitbag your son was and you shouldn't be upset by what he says because its the 'truth'
A. Do you nod in approval because it was the truth
B. Do you respect the the opinion and think 'well he has the right to say it'
C. Do you jump over the pews and kick his ass into next week.
I'd be choosing C.
Sums it all up perfectly.
I can't believe one entry in the tribute section is causing so friction within the community. Having said that I did quite like JS's rewrite and would be quite happy if it went into the tribute section.
Work colleagues are random tossers...least the ones I work with! and I am sure would be seen as such by the immediate family.
And as it is posted on a freely accessible website it could well be in front of his friends and family.
Edit: oh and again...just because something is the truth doesn't mean you should spout it out...there is still such a thing as knowing when to keep your mouth shut and social etiquette.
I understand a lot of speccy nerds lack 'social skills' so this might not quite apply here :D
Im sure he would be classed as a "random tosser" to Ian Weatherburn's family
With all due respect, this is not a funeral, and that is a classic example of a "straw man" argument.
While I would have worded the article much differently if I had been the author, I would have still substantially had the same thrust for the obituary; Jumping Stack's rewrite is closer to how I would have worded it.