ooooh arrrr there Beanz, same here son. My Dad bought his for ?30,000 and the one next door went for a ?250,000. Now I'm waiting for him to die :) Any one got any rat poison? and can it be detected during a post mortem?
Ah well; at least if something good comes of this it'll be an end to those fatuous TV programs where someone spins a ridiculous fairy tale about how you can make a fortune out of property speculation. At least those that didn't cut and run last year when the US market started to go tits up seem liable to be in for a hammering shortly.
There is no way that the maintenance of my house will cost at least my mortgage payments once it's paid off. Far from it. Sure there will be some costs, but no where near as much as the mortgage payments.
Over ?8,000 a year to maintain things like windows, central heating, etc? Pull the other one.
Did this guy gamble on the housing market and lose? From his twisted "logic" I wouldn't be surprised.
hmmm.. interesting - I must be bored! :)
I've just reading around on the internet (I supposed to be applying for jobs here - obviously not in the financial services industry!)
I've never really thought about the definitions that deeply - I've always just considered an asset to be something you can sell for money (or that brings money in). That seems to be broadly in line with what good old wikipedia is telling me anyway... (so based on that a house is an asset for sure)
But it seems that there is a disagreement by various groups on what an asset and liability actually are! Apparently some people define it as simply as an asset puts money in your pocket and a liability takes it away! Based on that - as far as I can tell :The house you live in continues to be a liability (drain on your finances) as long as you live there (Whether you ,buy it, rent it or squat in it - I can't see any difference).
It is an asset when you come to sell it - Which you probably won't. (If I had a house there is no way I would sell it and go back to renting either!). But for the most part your house doesn't bring in any real money every year - it tends to cost instead. It's unlikely Beanz parents will ever see much of that ?150,000 odd as they would not want to sell their home (It's just a kind of paper wealth to them).
So from an hours reading as far as I can tell : You ARE better off buying a house (which we all knew anyway) but as for whether it really is a great asset - umm ... predictably it seems to depend on how you define asset...
Anyway - If house prices do go down at least I might actually be able to afford a liability... sorry house.. of my own! So I'm sorry for all those people who are hit hard by the current housing market - but I've gotta get onto the property ladder somehow!
It's unlikely Beanz parents will ever see much of that ?150,000 odd as they would not want to sell their home (It's just a kind of paper wealth to them).
Well they have talked about selling it and buying a cheap apartment..the balance of the money helping them through their retirement a little better. I naturally talked them out of it as I don't want them spending my money.
Ha ha. A lot of my friends parents have downsized and used the money for a long cruise, holiday, moving abroad or a chunk to give to their kids.
Its sad it took a mortgage but a mortgage actually believe it or not made me more sensible. Trying to save money before a mortgage i could never do and would blow it, being forced to have a chunk left for a mortgage has actually made me become better with my money !
I just hope my dad doesnt turn into one of these 60 year olds who suddenly buys a nice open top sports car like some late life crisis and drives it around at 30mph annoying all the other drivers ! What a waste !
I'll start worrying when the country's in recession (i.e. negative growth).
I bought a house in December - first time buyer, too - because I was paying ~?7,000/year rent. Unless the value of my house drops by that amount per year (~7% drop), then I'm not worrying about that either.
But then of course I live northwards - home-owners in the south must be shitting themselves.
The doomsayers are talking a minimum 30% drop in the market.
Don't let that worry you though as all good mortgage offers are being pulled and replaced with crap mortage offers with high interest, massive arrangement fees and a minimum 75% LTV. So you will probably still be better off.
With regard to Labour/Tory the labour have indeed floowed the tory policy of 10 years ago, in 10 years the business model has change, Gordon has continued to ride the wave with huge borrowing, ever higher taxes, stealing pensions now they are simply running out of money.
What do we get now too? Just like the end of the tories last time. In-fighting and corruption.
2 terms as a politian should be the absolute limit.
They've brought the expense claim down to ?25 for polititians - without the need to produce proof that any money was spent. That's to be given the money back! Without a receipt I can't even offset the price of a second class stamp against tax.
Well they have talked about selling it and buying a cheap apartment..the balance of the money helping them through their retirement a little better. I naturally talked them out of it as I don't want them spending my money.
Hehe, when my mum says she's going on a cruise or a long foreign holiday, I "jokingly" tell her to stop skiing [1]
My mom and dad bought their house in 1977 for 11,500. Its worth about 150,000 now.....I'd say they will get there money back...(or rather I will when they kick the bucket).
Oh, don't let them do that! ... I don't think dented buckets go for much on eBay these days ... have them wrap it in bubble-wrap first maybe ... then they can kick it all they want ... then you get 150k PLUS a wonderful bucket in near-pristine condition! Can't go wrong with a bucket, I say. Especially these days with the economy going down the drain ... I saw a thread somewhere on WoS about this kind of a thing ... hmm-mm ... down the drain, too bad the politicians down get strained through with the economy ... I say communal anarchy makes more sense than the crap going on nowadays (and the past 10000 years or so) ... now where did I leave my wee-bucket? Ah, yes ... right next to the one I drink my water from ... wait ... which one is which again? Ah, bugger!
Oh, don't let them do that! ... I don't think dented buckets go for much on eBay these days ... have them wrap it in bubble-wrap first maybe ... then they can kick it all they want ... then you get 150k PLUS a wonderful bucket in near-pristine condition! Can't go wrong with a bucket, I say. Especially these days with the economy going down the drain ... I saw a thread somewhere on WoS about this kind of a thing ... hmm-mm ... down the drain, too bad the politicians down get strained through with the economy ... I say communal anarchy makes more sense than the crap going on nowadays (and the past 10000 years or so) ... now where did I leave my wee-bucket? Ah, yes ... right next to the one I drink my water from ... wait ... which one is which again? Ah, bugger!
There's a hole in my bottom, dear ZnorXman, dear ZnorXman,
There's a hole in my bottom dear ZnorXman a hole....
I think this whole economy down the drain thing is a ruse by the bank of England to try an minimise inflation.
Sure, if you tell everyone the countres broke, soon things are going to be tough, the ecconomy is slowing, house prices are falling.. yada yada. People will beleive it and it will happen!
So People cut back on their spending.
As a result shops and associated manufacturing buisineses suffer.
2nd Home owners all try to sell and no one wants to buy as they beleive it to be a bad investment.
As a result of too many unsold houses the market crashes.
Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
I beleive that this has been manufactured by the bank of englands romour mill, but for our own good, so that the economy slows down and allows the banks to keep ontop of inflation. If we kept buying homes and consumer goods at the rate we were, inflation would go though the roof and the financial bang would be much worse.
You cant go telling people stop spending and buying houses as much because they wont, even when they know its for their long term benifit as the vast majority of british plebs (meaning the apathetic and genrally stupid of our population (75%) ) live for only for the moment with scant considderation for tomorow or the bigger picture.
Therefore, this self fulfilling prophecy has to be manufactured to help smooth out the bump.
I wish the Mad max world would hurry up and happen....I'm armed and ready. Just need to raid Walmart when it does for a couple of generators and 50yrs supply of baked beans.
I wish the Mad max world would hurry up and happen....I'm armed and ready. Just need to raid Walmart when it does for a couple of generators and 50yrs supply of baked beans.
And don't forget to grab a shed-load of their fart-inducing Sam's pop/soda/beverages ... btw ... even during a Mad Max world-event I think WalMart would probably still offer layaway! ;-)
I wish the Mad max world would hurry up and happen....I'm armed and ready. Just need to raid Walmart when it does for a couple of generators and 50yrs supply of baked beans.
you wouldn't last 5 minutes against the local militia. :)
you wouldn't see that sort of world in this country. fule being hoarded, gangs running around terrorizine people, do me a favour
I get the feeling from here that this Gordon Brown ain't to popular..is that true ..I mean, all I have is bias media to go on.
That abolition of the 10p tax thing was a bit rotten. Same old UK. I thought that the 10p tax rate was about the only good thing that ever happened in my 10 years in UK.
hmmm we used to have a great empire where the entire world looked to us for guidence, then the women got the vote and things started going downhill from there.
The thing about a house in terms of 'asset' or 'liability' - well, since I live in my house, I don't really care even if it drops to ?5 in value because I can still live in it - it still provides a basic human need of shelter. So whatever it's worth in terms of ?, it's always worth a hell of a lot in terms of fulfilling my basic human needs. Contrast to a paper asset such as shares in a company - ?135K of share certificates will hardly provide you with shelter if the company you have them it goes tits up.
The thing about a house in terms of 'asset' or 'liability' - well, since I live in my house, I don't really care even if it drops to £5 in value because I can still live in it - it still provides a basic human need of shelter. So whatever it's worth in terms of £, it's always worth a hell of a lot in terms of fulfilling my basic human needs. Contrast to a paper asset such as shares in a company - £135K of share certificates will hardly provide you with shelter if the company you have them it goes tits up.
True - I'd agree with all of that. But it all flies in the face of that English middle class ideal that your home is your biggest asset. My own parents have told me their home is their biggest and most worthwhile asset financially. They constantly tell me it's a great thing that the value has gone up thousands since they bought it ten years ago...
But to me that seems bonkers!:
A house is a necessity - You can't really trade it in for the money it's worth any more than you can trade your own liver for money on the black transplant market. Whether the value of my liver went up by 500% last year is irrelevant, I still need it and if I sell it it will cost me 500% more to buy someone else's liver with which to replace it.
If Mum and Dad's house went up 30% since they bought it - when they sell it and move up the street the house they buy has probably gone up 30% too!
So if you have just bought a house and can afford to pay the mortgage - your fine surely (unless you need to move right now) ... It's only people who have overstretched themselves that are in trouble as the economy goes through a rocky patch....err... isn't it ? (Maybe I'm missing something...)
True - I'd agree with all of that. But it all flies in the face of that English middle class ideal that your home is your biggest asset. My own parents have told me their home is their biggest and most worthwhile asset financially. They constantly tell me it's a great thing that the value has gone up thousands since they bought it ten years ago...
But to me that seems bonkers!:
A house is a necessity - You can't really trade it in for the money it's worth any more than you can trade your own liver for money on the black transplant market. Whether the value of my liver went up by 500% last year is irrelevant, I still need it and if I sell it it will cost me 500% more to buy someone else's liver with which to replace it.
If Mum and Dad's house went up 30% since they bought it - when they sell it and move up the street the house they buy has probably gone up 30% too!
So if you have just bought a house and can afford to pay the mortgage - your fine surely (unless you need to move right now) ... It's only people who have overstretched themselves that are in trouble as the economy goes through a rocky patch....err... isn't it ? (Maybe I'm missing something...)
Well here is another way to look at it that shows its a great asset.
You buy a house and pay a mortgage for 25 years....at the end of the 25yrs its yours...and worth quite a bit if you sold it (and in the meantime have a roof over your head)....
You rent for 25 years...you have absolutely nothing to sell...no asset you could liquidate for a big lump of cash (and have also had a roof over your head)...you still run the risk of being homeless if you default on your continuing rent.
For most blue collar people their house IS their biggest asset ..they own nothing else that comes close.
So after 25 years...you have either 1. a house which you could turn into hard cash very quickly or 2. continuing rent with no end in sight and no hard cash should you need it.
Renting IS cheaper in the long run but 99% of people do not invest the savings over a house but merely spend them as part of their regular income.....the house is bascially a 'savings account' that you live in at the same time.
Owning a house is absolutely better than not owning a house - no arguments there!
I just disagree with the way that many people seem to believe that their house is an investment of sorts and they also seem to DEMAND that their house MUST make them money over time...
Some people seem to be ready to kick out a government based on the fact that their homes may lose value that is not real to them anyway (since as I've already said they are unlikely to sell them as they have to live somewhere).
That to me is why we have such a twitchy housing market that is either galloping ever further out of reach of the first time buyers (as it was for too many years over here), or sat there doing nothing almost waiting for something to happen (which is what appears to be happening now).
A house has other value than purely financial - it is your home and shelter after all.
A lot of people seem to be unable to accept that a house is a purchase like any other - some purchases increase in value - most decrease. You don't have a right to a profit and it's really not any governments fault if you don't get one over any given time.
Renting IS cheaper in the long run but 99% of people do not invest the savings over a house but merely spend them as part of their regular income.....the house is bascially a 'savings account' that you live in at the same time.
Is it really?
Rent goes up every year, or maybe more frequently. My mortgage does not go up year on year, and in 20 years time I won't even have a mortgage (and in the last year of my mortgage, the repayments will probably be less than the rent of a grotty bedsit, thanks to inflation). There are maintenance costs, but if you are renting somewhere - maintenance costs are factored into the rent the landlord charges you so you still don't really get away from them. My maintenance costs on a whole house are much less than the rent on a bedsit.
There are good reasons to rent (for example, if you expect to move often - selling and buying houses is awful, slow and annoying but changing rented flats is not even a fiftieth of the hassle) - but saving money in the long term isn't one of them, I don't think.
Rent goes up every year, or maybe more frequently.
Depends on where you live really. My rent (2 br flat) has fluctuated but not by horribly much in the last 8 years or so. The highest it was was $565 per month and the lowest $545 ... I do know that this coming rent year it will go up $20 per month. The rent here is the same through the year, the company is only allowed to change it once a year (start of year) which can be good for those who have the start of their lease towards the end of the year, because that gives them a few months to then plan ahead their budget, and/or decide to move elsewhere.
One thing I've found to be an odd behaviour over here (USA) is that younger people rarely stay in the same apartment for longer than 1-2 years ... then they move somewhere else, even within a 5-10 mile radius. I prefer to stick to a place I like, and I love it at the edge of town with a big forest next to me where I can go for walks, stick my tongue out at the deer and woodticks.
That abolition of the 10p tax thing was a bit rotten. Same old UK. I thought that the 10p tax rate was about the only good thing that ever happened in my 10 years in UK.
Wossname on 'Have I got News for You' made the great point that Gordon Brown is a bit like a reverse Robin Hood - he takes from the poor and gives to the rich (10p tax rate, and the huge subsidies given to wealthy bankers recently).
Comments
i presume thats some sort of way to bake a cake, or something to do with sewing up the holes in my socks, either way get on with it treacle. ;)
I thought it was something rude and a come on line
hmmm.. interesting - I must be bored! :)
I've just reading around on the internet (I supposed to be applying for jobs here - obviously not in the financial services industry!)
I've never really thought about the definitions that deeply - I've always just considered an asset to be something you can sell for money (or that brings money in). That seems to be broadly in line with what good old wikipedia is telling me anyway... (so based on that a house is an asset for sure)
But it seems that there is a disagreement by various groups on what an asset and liability actually are! Apparently some people define it as simply as an asset puts money in your pocket and a liability takes it away! Based on that - as far as I can tell :The house you live in continues to be a liability (drain on your finances) as long as you live there (Whether you ,buy it, rent it or squat in it - I can't see any difference).
It is an asset when you come to sell it - Which you probably won't. (If I had a house there is no way I would sell it and go back to renting either!). But for the most part your house doesn't bring in any real money every year - it tends to cost instead. It's unlikely Beanz parents will ever see much of that ?150,000 odd as they would not want to sell their home (It's just a kind of paper wealth to them).
So from an hours reading as far as I can tell : You ARE better off buying a house (which we all knew anyway) but as for whether it really is a great asset - umm ... predictably it seems to depend on how you define asset...
Anyway - If house prices do go down at least I might actually be able to afford a liability... sorry house.. of my own! So I'm sorry for all those people who are hit hard by the current housing market - but I've gotta get onto the property ladder somehow!
Well they have talked about selling it and buying a cheap apartment..the balance of the money helping them through their retirement a little better. I naturally talked them out of it as I don't want them spending my money.
Its sad it took a mortgage but a mortgage actually believe it or not made me more sensible. Trying to save money before a mortgage i could never do and would blow it, being forced to have a chunk left for a mortgage has actually made me become better with my money !
I just hope my dad doesnt turn into one of these 60 year olds who suddenly buys a nice open top sports car like some late life crisis and drives it around at 30mph annoying all the other drivers ! What a waste !
Report everycrime, get a crime number everytime. Encourage all your neighbours to do the same. Eventually they will start patroling.
The doomsayers are talking a minimum 30% drop in the market.
Don't let that worry you though as all good mortgage offers are being pulled and replaced with crap mortage offers with high interest, massive arrangement fees and a minimum 75% LTV. So you will probably still be better off.
With regard to Labour/Tory the labour have indeed floowed the tory policy of 10 years ago, in 10 years the business model has change, Gordon has continued to ride the wave with huge borrowing, ever higher taxes, stealing pensions now they are simply running out of money.
What do we get now too? Just like the end of the tories last time. In-fighting and corruption.
2 terms as a politian should be the absolute limit.
They've brought the expense claim down to ?25 for polititians - without the need to produce proof that any money was spent. That's to be given the money back! Without a receipt I can't even offset the price of a second class stamp against tax.
Hehe, when my mum says she's going on a cruise or a long foreign holiday, I "jokingly" tell her to stop skiing [1]
[1] Skiing - Spending the Kids' Inheritance.
I can see that happening down south, especially London, but not north of Watford Gap.
Oh, don't let them do that! ... I don't think dented buckets go for much on eBay these days ... have them wrap it in bubble-wrap first maybe ... then they can kick it all they want ... then you get 150k PLUS a wonderful bucket in near-pristine condition! Can't go wrong with a bucket, I say. Especially these days with the economy going down the drain ... I saw a thread somewhere on WoS about this kind of a thing ... hmm-mm ... down the drain, too bad the politicians down get strained through with the economy ... I say communal anarchy makes more sense than the crap going on nowadays (and the past 10000 years or so) ... now where did I leave my wee-bucket? Ah, yes ... right next to the one I drink my water from ... wait ... which one is which again? Ah, bugger!
There's a hole in my bottom, dear ZnorXman, dear ZnorXman,
There's a hole in my bottom dear ZnorXman a hole....
Err ... *cue all sorts of crude jokes*... ;-)
Sure, if you tell everyone the countres broke, soon things are going to be tough, the ecconomy is slowing, house prices are falling.. yada yada. People will beleive it and it will happen!
So People cut back on their spending.
As a result shops and associated manufacturing buisineses suffer.
2nd Home owners all try to sell and no one wants to buy as they beleive it to be a bad investment.
As a result of too many unsold houses the market crashes.
Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
I beleive that this has been manufactured by the bank of englands romour mill, but for our own good, so that the economy slows down and allows the banks to keep ontop of inflation. If we kept buying homes and consumer goods at the rate we were, inflation would go though the roof and the financial bang would be much worse.
You cant go telling people stop spending and buying houses as much because they wont, even when they know its for their long term benifit as the vast majority of british plebs (meaning the apathetic and genrally stupid of our population (75%) ) live for only for the moment with scant considderation for tomorow or the bigger picture.
Therefore, this self fulfilling prophecy has to be manufactured to help smooth out the bump.
And don't forget to grab a shed-load of their fart-inducing Sam's pop/soda/beverages ... btw ... even during a Mad Max world-event I think WalMart would probably still offer layaway! ;-)
you wouldn't last 5 minutes against the local militia. :)
you wouldn't see that sort of world in this country. fule being hoarded, gangs running around terrorizine people, do me a favour
Don't forget we are talking about Beanz and he's armed with 50 years worth of baked beans ... who would want to get near him???
That abolition of the 10p tax thing was a bit rotten. Same old UK. I thought that the 10p tax rate was about the only good thing that ever happened in my 10 years in UK.
True - I'd agree with all of that. But it all flies in the face of that English middle class ideal that your home is your biggest asset. My own parents have told me their home is their biggest and most worthwhile asset financially. They constantly tell me it's a great thing that the value has gone up thousands since they bought it ten years ago...
But to me that seems bonkers!:
A house is a necessity - You can't really trade it in for the money it's worth any more than you can trade your own liver for money on the black transplant market. Whether the value of my liver went up by 500% last year is irrelevant, I still need it and if I sell it it will cost me 500% more to buy someone else's liver with which to replace it.
If Mum and Dad's house went up 30% since they bought it - when they sell it and move up the street the house they buy has probably gone up 30% too!
So if you have just bought a house and can afford to pay the mortgage - your fine surely (unless you need to move right now) ... It's only people who have overstretched themselves that are in trouble as the economy goes through a rocky patch....err... isn't it ? (Maybe I'm missing something...)
You could make a tent out of them if they were big enough. And waterproof.
Well here is another way to look at it that shows its a great asset.
You buy a house and pay a mortgage for 25 years....at the end of the 25yrs its yours...and worth quite a bit if you sold it (and in the meantime have a roof over your head)....
You rent for 25 years...you have absolutely nothing to sell...no asset you could liquidate for a big lump of cash (and have also had a roof over your head)...you still run the risk of being homeless if you default on your continuing rent.
For most blue collar people their house IS their biggest asset ..they own nothing else that comes close.
So after 25 years...you have either 1. a house which you could turn into hard cash very quickly or 2. continuing rent with no end in sight and no hard cash should you need it.
Renting IS cheaper in the long run but 99% of people do not invest the savings over a house but merely spend them as part of their regular income.....the house is bascially a 'savings account' that you live in at the same time.
If you have a farm that produces crops over 10 years.
You don't sell your farm because 1 of the 10 years was a bad season.
Porperty is the best and most solid investment there is.
Owning a house is absolutely better than not owning a house - no arguments there!
I just disagree with the way that many people seem to believe that their house is an investment of sorts and they also seem to DEMAND that their house MUST make them money over time...
Some people seem to be ready to kick out a government based on the fact that their homes may lose value that is not real to them anyway (since as I've already said they are unlikely to sell them as they have to live somewhere).
That to me is why we have such a twitchy housing market that is either galloping ever further out of reach of the first time buyers (as it was for too many years over here), or sat there doing nothing almost waiting for something to happen (which is what appears to be happening now).
A house has other value than purely financial - it is your home and shelter after all.
A lot of people seem to be unable to accept that a house is a purchase like any other - some purchases increase in value - most decrease. You don't have a right to a profit and it's really not any governments fault if you don't get one over any given time.
As for whether a house in an asset - ultimately I have to agree it is an asset (technically). But it is an asset that comes with a whole load of liabilities attached. (I think this post discusses it quite nicely - http://www.diyfinances.com/2006/03/29/the-asset-with-liability-written-all-over-it/)
Is it really?
Rent goes up every year, or maybe more frequently. My mortgage does not go up year on year, and in 20 years time I won't even have a mortgage (and in the last year of my mortgage, the repayments will probably be less than the rent of a grotty bedsit, thanks to inflation). There are maintenance costs, but if you are renting somewhere - maintenance costs are factored into the rent the landlord charges you so you still don't really get away from them. My maintenance costs on a whole house are much less than the rent on a bedsit.
There are good reasons to rent (for example, if you expect to move often - selling and buying houses is awful, slow and annoying but changing rented flats is not even a fiftieth of the hassle) - but saving money in the long term isn't one of them, I don't think.
Depends on where you live really. My rent (2 br flat) has fluctuated but not by horribly much in the last 8 years or so. The highest it was was $565 per month and the lowest $545 ... I do know that this coming rent year it will go up $20 per month. The rent here is the same through the year, the company is only allowed to change it once a year (start of year) which can be good for those who have the start of their lease towards the end of the year, because that gives them a few months to then plan ahead their budget, and/or decide to move elsewhere.
Wossname on 'Have I got News for You' made the great point that Gordon Brown is a bit like a reverse Robin Hood - he takes from the poor and gives to the rich (10p tax rate, and the huge subsidies given to wealthy bankers recently).