To me the Speccy games lacked colour but had better defined graphics, the C64 had more colour but blockier graphics.
BUT at the end of the day its what computer you had as a kid. If some people here had C64's throughout the 80's they would be sticking up for that and vica versa.
Yeah the C64 sold tons more (Obviously they had the US) but i'm proud at what a great job Sinclair did in the lil old UK. Tons of great games and the most popular machine in the UK. Thats what i care about, i dont care if the C64 sold more in Paraguay or wherever.
At the end of the day you love the computer you had as a kid, you have great memories of that machine, tons of games from mates, many great days playing games after school etc.
You just cant change peoples opinions after all these years.
lemon64 is an excellent site but to be fair i dont go there that much, i love WOS and think its a great community. But saying that as the C64 was so huge in the US i would expect many more bigger sites than WOS out there but i dont think there is really
At the end of the day you love the computer you had as a kid, you have great memories of that machine, tons of games from mates, many great days playing games after school etc.
You just cant change peoples opinions after all these years.
I had both and other machines at the same time. Speccy was a better machine for a kid, no doubt about it....C64 had more potential (unrealized?) and I would said an older audience.
I had both and other machines at the same time. Speccy was a better machine for a kid, no doubt about it....C64 had more potential (unrealized?) and I would said an older audience.
I had both and other machines at the same time. Speccy was a better machine for a kid, no doubt about it....C64 had more potential (unrealized?) and I would said an older audience.
Yeah alright for some ! ;)
But seriously its all about gameplay at the end of the day. Yeah i love the Speccy and thats one reason i play a lot of games i had as a kid.
But to me the games are so playable. Easy to have a quick blast on. Yeah graphics might not always be great or sound, but thats why people play old Atari 2600 games or other old games , all about playability and memories.
Many games today might have amazing 3d graphics, huge animated scenes and great sound and visuals but its all about gameplay, without that it doesnt matter how they dress it up
Found it. Straight from the wikipedia's mouth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribute_clash
"The ZX Spectrum used 6144 bytes for pixel information, with one byte representing a row of eight pixels, and 768 bytes used for the colour attributes, thus giving a total of 6912 bytes for the entire graphics display"
Are you suggesting the colour data is stored in a Tesco bag under the bed or in RAM like most other computers? Since you seem to be new to this whole computer/internet thing, here's another bit of remedial reading for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palette_%28computing%29
Not the same thing as colour RAM. OK? Got it?
Aaah, Display File, not quite the same thing as colour RAM.
so colour = graphics does it?
If the C64 graphics capabilities were so much better that the Spectrums then why did it take a dedicated chip giving 16 colours, eight hardware sprites per scanline (enabling up to 112 sprites per PAL screen), scrolling capabilities, and two bitmap graphics modes to produce graphics that were no better than the Spectrums?
Ha ha just noticed ! True though, considering lemon64 is meant to be the best C64 site out there (I do think its very good) its shocking theres been no updates for nearly 9 months or so.
Plus having a picture of Bombjack on the front is a joke as thats one of the worst games for the C64.
I'm not anti-C64 at all (There are some better games on it than the Speccy and the other way round) and i do like trying some of their versions on emulators. Just as our Ghostbusters is crap and the C64's is excellent, their Bombjack is so unplayable and ours is superb
Ha ha just noticed ! True though, considering lemon64 is meant to be the best C64 site out there (I do think its very good) its shocking theres been no updates for nearly 9 months or so.
Plus having a picture of Bombjack on the front is a joke as thats one of the worst games for the C64.
I'm not anti-C64 at all (There are some better games on it than the Speccy and the other way round) and i do like trying some of their versions on emulators. Just as our Ghostbusters is crap and the C64's is excellent, their Bombjack is so unplayable and ours is superb
"Reading that Wos link reminds me of just how small minded and moronic most specky enthusiasts are."
"It's typical WoS bla-bla, just ignore it. It's just a bunch of people who got bitter about the fact that they couldn't afford a C64 back then."
It seems like many of them are just as bad as SOME people here, eg the old your computer is crap, mine isnt, bla bla. Ha ha bitter about they couldnt afford a C64 back then.
Yep back in the 80's people measured how rich/poor people were SOLELY by the computer they had. So by that one of my friends who lived in a huge house must have been a tramp as he had an Oric.
If the C64 graphics capabilities were so much better that the Spectrums then why did it take a dedicated chip giving 16 colours, eight hardware sprites per scanline (enabling up to 112 sprites per PAL screen), scrolling capabilities, and two bitmap graphics modes to produce graphics that were no better than the Spectrums?
Here we go again. You show me the isometrics and wireframes, I show you the smooth scrollers with better animation and no colour mess.
No, but logging onto two forums isn't particularly difficult for me. And as I've shown earlier, there's lots of other C= activity out there besides Lemon.
If the C64 graphics capabilities were so much better that the Spectrums then why did it take a dedicated chip giving 16 colours, eight hardware sprites per scanline (enabling up to 112 sprites per PAL screen), scrolling capabilities, and two bitmap graphics modes to produce graphics that were no better than the Spectrums?
Uhh, right:
versus
I'm sorry, but when you consider that the C64 has a hi-res, low-color mode in addition to its low-res, high-color mode, and that astute graphicians frequently combined the two, there's absolutely no way that the Spectrum's graphics are better.
"Reading that Wos link reminds me of just how small minded and moronic most specky enthusiasts are."
"It's typical WoS bla-bla, just ignore it. It's just a bunch of people who got bitter about the fact that they couldn't afford a C64 back then."
It seems like many of them are just as bad as SOME people here, eg the old your computer is crap, mine isnt, bla bla. Ha ha bitter about they couldnt afford a C64 back then.
You defeat your own argument by saying that there are people like that here.
And, really, it is pretty moronic when people try to argue that the Spectrum had better graphics.
I'm sorry, but when you consider that the C64 has a hi-res, low-color mode in addition to its low-res, high-color mode, and that astute graphicians frequently combined the two, there's absolutely no way that the Spectrum's graphics are better.
I'm sorry, but when you consider that the C64 has a hi-res, low-color mode in addition to its low-res, high-color mode, and that astute graphicians frequently combined the two, there's absolutely no way that the Spectrum's graphics are better.
At the end of the day it depends on what team worked on a game. If Jon Ritman and co worked on a game they would produce a masterpiece, eg Batman. If the idiots who did Jack and the Beanstalk worked on a new game they would create a bunch of tosh.
The screenshots you showed earlier dont have one game which is miles and miles better than the others, most of those games have great graphics. Mayhem in Monsterland is a C64 classic. I note how you carefully selected your games !
But again at the end of the day it depended on what team software companies got for a game, if they got idiots then the game would be crap and 25 years later C64 fans laughing at a crappy Speccy version. If they got a good team in who could do great things with the Speccy then it'll be a superb game and one C64 users couldnt use 25 years later in an argument.
Bored now. If the response to the question "Spectrum more loved than C64?" is "the C64 is better than the Spectrum", then that tells me all I need to know.
No. Did I say that? Certainly colour is a rather important part I would've thought.
Do I need to quote your wikipedia cut and paste again?
Here we go again. You show me the isometrics and wireframes, I show you the smooth scrollers with better animation and no colour mess.
You can show all the smooth scrollers you like but it still won't make up for the fact that even with the dedicated graphics chip in the C64 graphics still looked blocky with washed out colours.
Bored now. If the response to the question "Spectrum more loved than C64?" is "the C64 is better than the Spectrum", then that tells me all I need to know.
Exactly ! Martijns original comment was that lemon64 doesnt seem to have anymore updates. I think most people agree its the main C64 site (And a good one) but yeah i was surprised it hadnt been updated more. Active forum, very good website, just not enough updates. Sadly its turned into the usual us vs them argument which will never solve itself.
Never seen on the internet a Speccy owner saying "Yeah youre right, the C64 was better" and vica versa
The screenshots you showed earlier dont have one game which is miles and miles better than the others, most of those games have great graphics. Mayhem in Monsterland is a C64 classic. I note how you carefully selected your games !
Yes, I posted the games that I thought had the best graphics. I love the way that Dragonia got around the color clash problem by basing the scenery around the character grid. Prayer of the Warrior has some of the most detailed sprites that I've ever seen on the Spectrum.
But, really, when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest.
Besides, what's wrong with posting a "C64 classic"?
You can show all the smooth scrollers you like but it still won't make up for the fact that even with the dedicated graphics chip in the C64 graphics still looked blocky with washed out colours.
Blocky? It has a hi-res mode like the Spectrum. Washed-out? Well, since it's an analog signal going to an analog monitor, there isn't really a definite C64 palette that's dull, or a definite Spectrum palette that's bright. Fiddling with the monitor could reverse the situation.
?commodore 64? video results 1 - 20 of about 3,990
hmmm.
Actually, there's only about five C64 videos on youtube, it's just that they are all repeated several hundred times, as the C64 users who uploaded them don't understand computers (hence them buying C64s) and so accidentally uploaded each video a lot more times than they meant to.
Beanz you read my mind I was doing somthing similar as you wrote that.
I was looking at all these search terms in Google and seeing how many pages each one returned.....
[The gist is that the C64 has a lot more mentions on the 'net than the Speccy]
Yes but you have to take into account the context of each post. Most Spectrum posts are along the "The Speccy was great, I love mine" or "The Spectrum was brilliant, wish I'd had one, instead I had an Amiga which was still quite good" type, whereas most C64 posts are along the lines of "Me had C64 it am grate" or "Wasn't the C64 crap? [followed by a couple of hundred factual reasons, all correct]"
I don't see what the problem is accepting that the C64 was and is the more popular machine globally.
It's not popular, it's common. The Spectrum has class :)
It's not as if Thatcher, Russell Brand and Lost aren't evidence enough that things that are quite popular can also be very sh1te.
True (apart from maybe Lost, I've never seen that). And many of us here do like the C64, it's just that we enjoy a good C64 vs. Speccy argument, as long as it's non-offensive, like this thread.
That said the ZX colour RAM is dire.:grin:
Right, baseball bats out!
Actually, less than seven kilobytes that contains an efficiently laid out screen display with eight (or fifteen) clear colours in (comparitively) high resolution seems very good to me for an 8-bit system, considering the limitations of RAM and CPU speed. But if you seriously want to argue that the C64 has better display layout and function (and this argument has gone on since the early 1980s with no signs of abating) then I'll leave it to more knowledgable people.
Yes, I posted the games that I thought had the best graphics. I love the way that Dragonia got around the color clash problem by basing the scenery around the character grid. Prayer of the Warrior has some of the most detailed sprites that I've ever seen on the Spectrum.
But, really, when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest.
Besides, what's wrong with posting a "C64 classic"?
With an attitude like that "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest." its just ridiculous
I cant believe youve dragged me into some sad argument about computers from over 20 years ago. Whats the world coming to ?
I believe you, you are 100% right. Bombjack is BRILLIANT on the C64 as 'the C64 can do all that and more , theres no contest", the Speccy version is crap as the C64 one is the best by far.
Cobra on the C64 is easily the best and totally outshines the Speccy version as "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest."
In fact you are right, every C64 game is far better than the Speccy equivalent, every single one, nope not because i've tried each one or i've judged the game not just on graphics but "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest."
No contest at all. I'm converted. Such a good fact based argument from our C64 friend i'm with him 100%. Hes the best and so is the C64 - no contest
With an attitude like that "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest." its just ridiculous
I cant believe youve dragged me into some sad argument about computers from over 20 years ago. Whats the world coming to ?
I believe you, you are 100% right. Bombjack is BRILLIANT on the C64 as 'the C64 can do all that and more , theres no contest", the Speccy version is crap as the C64 one is the best by far.
Cobra on the C64 is easily the best and totally outshines the Speccy version as "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest."
In fact you are right, every C64 game is far better than the Speccy equivalent, every single one, nope not because i've tried each one or i've judged the game not just on graphics but "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest."
No contest at all. I'm converted. Such a good fact based argument from our C64 friend i'm with him 100%. Hes the best and so is the C64 - no contest
I meant that it could do everything that the Spectrum does and more graphically. Duh. Why else would I post screenshots in response to a statement that the Spectrum has better graphics?
And I'd like to see you play the Spectrum version of Turrican and tell me that it's just as good as the C64 version. Alternatively, try playing the Spectrum version of Enforcer, or the Spectrum version of Creatures, or the Spectrum version of Ultima. Oh, wait, you CAN'T, because they didn't MAKE them.
I'm not saying that the C64 beats the Spectrum in the games department, but I am saying that the opposite situation is false, too.
I meant that it could do everything that the Spectrum does and more graphically. Duh. Why else would I post screenshots in response to a statement that the Spectrum has better graphics?
And I'd like to see you play the Spectrum version of Turrican and tell me that it's just as good as the C64 version. Alternatively, try playing the Spectrum version of Enforcer, or the Spectrum version of Creatures, or the Spectrum version of Ultima. Oh, wait, you CAN'T, because they didn't MAKE them.
I'm not saying that the C64 beats the Spectrum in the games department, but I am saying that the opposite situation is false, too.
Why am I even discussing your irrelevant point?
Yeah the C64 version of Knight Lore is superb, the C64 version of Bombjack is great. Who cares if you cant jump against the edge of something in Ghost n Goblins, theres still a great tune and colourful graphics.
As i've said the C64 has better versions of some games (Turrican, Rambo, GHostbusters and others) just as the Speccy has better versions of games as well.
I dont think eitehr machine beats the other one. But again at the end of the day its about what computer you had as a kid.
As for you i cant tell at times now or in the past if you are sticking up for one machine or the other. All i see is the general longrunning C64 vs Speccy war.
Comments
To me the Speccy games lacked colour but had better defined graphics, the C64 had more colour but blockier graphics.
BUT at the end of the day its what computer you had as a kid. If some people here had C64's throughout the 80's they would be sticking up for that and vica versa.
Yeah the C64 sold tons more (Obviously they had the US) but i'm proud at what a great job Sinclair did in the lil old UK. Tons of great games and the most popular machine in the UK. Thats what i care about, i dont care if the C64 sold more in Paraguay or wherever.
At the end of the day you love the computer you had as a kid, you have great memories of that machine, tons of games from mates, many great days playing games after school etc.
You just cant change peoples opinions after all these years.
lemon64 is an excellent site but to be fair i dont go there that much, i love WOS and think its a great community. But saying that as the C64 was so huge in the US i would expect many more bigger sites than WOS out there but i dont think there is really
I had both and other machines at the same time. Speccy was a better machine for a kid, no doubt about it....C64 had more potential (unrealized?) and I would said an older audience.
rich bastard.
Yeah alright for some ! ;)
But seriously its all about gameplay at the end of the day. Yeah i love the Speccy and thats one reason i play a lot of games i had as a kid.
But to me the games are so playable. Easy to have a quick blast on. Yeah graphics might not always be great or sound, but thats why people play old Atari 2600 games or other old games , all about playability and memories.
Many games today might have amazing 3d graphics, huge animated scenes and great sound and visuals but its all about gameplay, without that it doesnt matter how they dress it up
so colour = graphics does it?
If the C64 graphics capabilities were so much better that the Spectrums then why did it take a dedicated chip giving 16 colours, eight hardware sprites per scanline (enabling up to 112 sprites per PAL screen), scrolling capabilities, and two bitmap graphics modes to produce graphics that were no better than the Spectrums?
Lemon forums a bit quiet these days are they?
Ha ha just noticed ! True though, considering lemon64 is meant to be the best C64 site out there (I do think its very good) its shocking theres been no updates for nearly 9 months or so.
Plus having a picture of Bombjack on the front is a joke as thats one of the worst games for the C64.
I'm not anti-C64 at all (There are some better games on it than the Speccy and the other way round) and i do like trying some of their versions on emulators. Just as our Ghostbusters is crap and the C64's is excellent, their Bombjack is so unplayable and ours is superb
Ha ha just noticed ! True though, considering lemon64 is meant to be the best C64 site out there (I do think its very good) its shocking theres been no updates for nearly 9 months or so.
Plus having a picture of Bombjack on the front is a joke as thats one of the worst games for the C64.
I'm not anti-C64 at all (There are some better games on it than the Speccy and the other way round) and i do like trying some of their versions on emulators. Just as our Ghostbusters is crap and the C64's is excellent, their Bombjack is so unplayable and ours is superb
Ha ha just reading their forum (which is active)
http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27045
Talk about hypocritical..
"Reading that Wos link reminds me of just how small minded and moronic most specky enthusiasts are."
"It's typical WoS bla-bla, just ignore it. It's just a bunch of people who got bitter about the fact that they couldn't afford a C64 back then."
It seems like many of them are just as bad as SOME people here, eg the old your computer is crap, mine isnt, bla bla. Ha ha bitter about they couldnt afford a C64 back then.
Yep back in the 80's people measured how rich/poor people were SOLELY by the computer they had. So by that one of my friends who lived in a huge house must have been a tramp as he had an Oric.
versus
I'm sorry, but when you consider that the C64 has a hi-res, low-color mode in addition to its low-res, high-color mode, and that astute graphicians frequently combined the two, there's absolutely no way that the Spectrum's graphics are better.
You defeat your own argument by saying that there are people like that here.
And, really, it is pretty moronic when people try to argue that the Spectrum had better graphics.
It was a question, I guess your laughing at me...Im a user not a technical nerd.
At the end of the day it depends on what team worked on a game. If Jon Ritman and co worked on a game they would produce a masterpiece, eg Batman. If the idiots who did Jack and the Beanstalk worked on a new game they would create a bunch of tosh.
The screenshots you showed earlier dont have one game which is miles and miles better than the others, most of those games have great graphics. Mayhem in Monsterland is a C64 classic. I note how you carefully selected your games !
But again at the end of the day it depended on what team software companies got for a game, if they got idiots then the game would be crap and 25 years later C64 fans laughing at a crappy Speccy version. If they got a good team in who could do great things with the Speccy then it'll be a superb game and one C64 users couldnt use 25 years later in an argument.
It would look like a mass convention of anorak jackets though ;)
You can show all the smooth scrollers you like but it still won't make up for the fact that even with the dedicated graphics chip in the C64 graphics still looked blocky with washed out colours.
Exactly ! Martijns original comment was that lemon64 doesnt seem to have anymore updates. I think most people agree its the main C64 site (And a good one) but yeah i was surprised it hadnt been updated more. Active forum, very good website, just not enough updates. Sadly its turned into the usual us vs them argument which will never solve itself.
Never seen on the internet a Speccy owner saying "Yeah youre right, the C64 was better" and vica versa
Right...
Yes, I posted the games that I thought had the best graphics. I love the way that Dragonia got around the color clash problem by basing the scenery around the character grid. Prayer of the Warrior has some of the most detailed sprites that I've ever seen on the Spectrum.
But, really, when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest.
Besides, what's wrong with posting a "C64 classic"?
Blocky? It has a hi-res mode like the Spectrum. Washed-out? Well, since it's an analog signal going to an analog monitor, there isn't really a definite C64 palette that's dull, or a definite Spectrum palette that's bright. Fiddling with the monitor could reverse the situation.
Martijn, please stop starting contentious threads. You should know better...
Erm, yes. I mentioned that in my post (don't worry, you're talking to the king of mistakes!).
Actually, there's only about five C64 videos on youtube, it's just that they are all repeated several hundred times, as the C64 users who uploaded them don't understand computers (hence them buying C64s) and so accidentally uploaded each video a lot more times than they meant to.
Yes but you have to take into account the context of each post. Most Spectrum posts are along the "The Speccy was great, I love mine" or "The Spectrum was brilliant, wish I'd had one, instead I had an Amiga which was still quite good" type, whereas most C64 posts are along the lines of "Me had C64 it am grate" or "Wasn't the C64 crap? [followed by a couple of hundred factual reasons, all correct]"
It's not popular, it's common. The Spectrum has class :)
True (apart from maybe Lost, I've never seen that). And many of us here do like the C64, it's just that we enjoy a good C64 vs. Speccy argument, as long as it's non-offensive, like this thread.
Right, baseball bats out!
Actually, less than seven kilobytes that contains an efficiently laid out screen display with eight (or fifteen) clear colours in (comparitively) high resolution seems very good to me for an 8-bit system, considering the limitations of RAM and CPU speed. But if you seriously want to argue that the C64 has better display layout and function (and this argument has gone on since the early 1980s with no signs of abating) then I'll leave it to more knowledgable people.
With an attitude like that "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest." its just ridiculous
I cant believe youve dragged me into some sad argument about computers from over 20 years ago. Whats the world coming to ?
I believe you, you are 100% right. Bombjack is BRILLIANT on the C64 as 'the C64 can do all that and more , theres no contest", the Speccy version is crap as the C64 one is the best by far.
Cobra on the C64 is easily the best and totally outshines the Speccy version as "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest."
In fact you are right, every C64 game is far better than the Speccy equivalent, every single one, nope not because i've tried each one or i've judged the game not just on graphics but "when the C64 can do all that and more, there's no contest."
No contest at all. I'm converted. Such a good fact based argument from our C64 friend i'm with him 100%. Hes the best and so is the C64 - no contest
and for the Dragon 32. I mean, what were they thinking?
I meant that it could do everything that the Spectrum does and more graphically. Duh. Why else would I post screenshots in response to a statement that the Spectrum has better graphics?
And I'd like to see you play the Spectrum version of Turrican and tell me that it's just as good as the C64 version. Alternatively, try playing the Spectrum version of Enforcer, or the Spectrum version of Creatures, or the Spectrum version of Ultima. Oh, wait, you CAN'T, because they didn't MAKE them.
I'm not saying that the C64 beats the Spectrum in the games department, but I am saying that the opposite situation is false, too.
Why am I even discussing your irrelevant point?
Is there something wrong with me if I want one of those?
I don't know anything about the Dragon 32, aside from the fact that it's Welsh. What was wrong with it?
You've already singlehandedly exceeded the post count on here that usually appears all day on Lemon.
Congratulations, Your Commodore C16 is in the post!
Yeah the C64 version of Knight Lore is superb, the C64 version of Bombjack is great. Who cares if you cant jump against the edge of something in Ghost n Goblins, theres still a great tune and colourful graphics.
As i've said the C64 has better versions of some games (Turrican, Rambo, GHostbusters and others) just as the Speccy has better versions of games as well.
I dont think eitehr machine beats the other one. But again at the end of the day its about what computer you had as a kid.
As for you i cant tell at times now or in the past if you are sticking up for one machine or the other. All i see is the general longrunning C64 vs Speccy war.
"It's just a bunch of people who got bitter about the fact that they couldn't afford a C64 back then"
What a muppet