Well, that's all very well as long as you're happy to visit the page regularly on the offchance that there's a new Speccy release rather than a mountain of "Joe Bloggs provided an inlay scan of Advanced Foobar Simulator"... (Not to belittle the fine archiving work that goes on day in day out on this site - just that it makes the What's New page less immediately useful as a source of general Speccy news.)
But that aside, that's actually a really good point. Now that I've given that page a fresh look for the first time in ages, I have to say that it does a pretty damn good job of documenting new releases, more so than I would have given it credit for - especially as Martijn has been dutifully labelling them with the "Brand new software for 200x" header for some time now. And I can see the possibilities for extracting that data into a news site that I would want to use (which in my case basically boils down to: something with an RSS feed containing just the juicy bits), and hopefully others would too - especially the more 'casual' followers of the Speccy scene.
So I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. How about I have a go at building that site this weekend?
Maybe a lot of WoS people are like myself - only playing the "old classics" on my Spectrum emulators. I've never got into playing new games releases. Perhaps some good screenshots would encourage people to try them out? (regardless of what language they're in).
I would like to see an HTML page for each year of Spectrum releases (post-1992). New entries could be added to the 2009 page, and gradually the pages for the previous years could be written. I quite like the way how Digital Prawn listed the games in CSSCGC 2008, so that would be the template I'd use.
To see what has been released in 2008 I had to do an "advanced search" in infoseek, setting year of release to =2008. There's actually quite a few in that list - and most of them I'd never heard of. This is a shame as if the games are good I'd like to praise the author and encourage them to write more.
I did try Albatrossity and I have to say the in-game music is superb. I still prefer Tilt! though...
Well, that's all very well as long as you're happy to visit the page regularly on the offchance that there's a new Speccy release rather than a mountain of "Joe Bloggs provided an inlay scan of Advanced Foobar Simulator"... (Not to belittle the fine archiving work that goes on day in day out on this site - just that it makes the What's New page less immediately useful as a source of general Speccy news.)
You can also sign up to get WoS updates automatically via e-mail. Just go to the "What's New" page and there is a field toward the top you can fill in with your e-mail to get the updates.
Looking forward to seeing your site, have you thought of how you would set it up? WordPress where people can comment on each game, perhaps with snapshots from the game(s) ... or perhaps Google Groups, where subscribers can add their own little tidbits on the games? Or ... ??? :-)
All hail Shadow Maker!
Please tell him you need him and you can't live without his help. Shadow Maker needs all of you to say Thank You and Please because without public recognition and a flood of requests, Shadow Maker is to cool to be bothered.
All hail Shadow Maker!
Please tell him you need him and you can't live without his help. Shadow Maker needs all of you to say Thank You and Please because without public recognition and a flood of requests, Shadow Maker is to cool to be bothered.
No. I just prefer to DO rather than to TALK about what I can probably DO... I'd like to get info DIRECTLY about the question I asked, not to get tons of funny comments, attitude suggests and so on. You can help - then help, you cant - then do not write at all. This is my point.
I very like how gasman behave himself in this case, he is the man who DO rather than talk about what he can do.
No. I just prefer to DO rather than to TALK about what I can probably DO... I'd like to get info DIRECTLY about the question I asked, not to get tons of funny comments, attitude suggests and so on. You can help - then help, you cant - then do not write at all. This is my point.
Well, I do have some free time, So I'll keep arguing.
Karingal's point was that you cannot ask people to help, assume no one will help and give up on your project. It just doesn't make sense.
If indeed you are a person of action as you advertise yourself to be, you Just Do It! the Nike way. Meanwhile if you are not the talk type of person as you also advertise yourself not to be, then I'm pretty sure that you have more lines coded already than words in this debate.
I very like how gasman behave himself in this case, he is the man who DO rather than talk about what he can do.
Praising other people attitude doesn't suddenly change my view of yours. It however can serve as an inspiration to you.
rahtgaz, I really do not care about your opinion about myself. Yes, I have already some code written, as you guessed. Will announce, if this will come to something more than initial stage. It is 02:00AM in my timezone, so I just can't code, brain is tired, this is why I write here.
No. I just prefer to DO rather than to TALK about what I can probably DO... I'd like to get info DIRECTLY about the question I asked, not to get tons of funny comments, attitude suggests and so on. You can help - then help, you cant - then do not write at all. This is my point.
I very like how gasman behave himself in this case, he is the man who DO rather than talk about what he can do.
Gasman DOES without posting post after post of bad attitude. I think you'll find thats the correct way.
I didn't mention Spud until I had a version ready for release but after that feedback and response is essential.
Gasman DOES without posting post after post of bad attitude. I think you'll find thats the correct way.
He posts really helpful info, not blablabla, as most of people here. This is what I find as correct way, I do not mind if anyone said for example "Here is info, you feeble-minded man, take this, if you can't do it using your own brain" and give me this info... I will even say "Thank you, this will help, that's so simple, really :)". Form of talking is not essential, if the information is helpful.
Then go away and talk about the thread line. Do not provoke me. Better spend this time for polishing your "Spud".
Shadow Maker,
Karingal and I have had our arguments (I've put a few backs up on here and other forums, as I speak my mind, often without thinking first), but I have to say that I don't recall Karingal ever provoking an argument (though he provokes discussion, which is the point of these forums), and he certainly isn't in this thread.
Yet in every thread I've seen you post in, your posts seem to be worded either carelessly or provoketively. Actually, just look at your responses in the latest thread I've read which you posted in, the Fuse PSP has been updated! thread, at:
If that's not enough, then look at your responses in the threads USRO, Best Game of 2008, Do you really want to play a new cool, interesting, but rather hard game? They are
Looking forward to seeing your site, have you thought of how you would set it up? WordPress where people can comment on each game, perhaps with snapshots from the game(s) ... or perhaps Google Groups, where subscribers can add their own little tidbits on the games? Or ... ??? :-)
To be honest, if it's going to have comments / reviews at all then I'd just pull them in from spectrum20.org. No point in duplicating what already exists...
Incidentally, while I don't necessarily agree with everything Shadow Maker says or the way that he phrases it (I don't see anything wrong with calling Fuse PSP fantastic even if it is missing a few obscure features - the fact that it exists at all is fantastic...) I can see where he's coming from on topics like this one. The fact is, there's a huge mismatch on this scene between people saying "yes, if you do <game / website / project X> then I'll definitely <play / review / buy / use> it!" and them actually carrying out those promises. I've seen it myself with Comet Chaos - I was very happy to see the resurgence of interest in it a couple of months back, but for a long time the feedback I'd got from it was way out of line from the number of people who must have said "hey, wouldn't it be great if we could play Chaos online?" over the years. I imagine aowen would say much the same thing about the "let's build a super-Spectrum!" topics that have popped up since the dawn of time. I know it's only human nature to make positive noises when it doesn't involve actually doing any work, but when that results in exciting new projects going unappreciated (or worse, falling flat through lack of support) then that's a crying shame.
So when Shadow Maker says something to the effect of "I *could* build a website, but no-one's going to contribute to it", it's not a sign of an attitude problem - it is, sadly, all too true (it's just that he's the first person to put it quite so bluntly). Don't agree with me? Go on then, prove me wrong. I dare you...
Don't agree with me? Go on then, prove me wrong. I dare you...
On the contrary. I recently commented on something similar somewhere on these forums.
However this is true of any project in any field. The ZX Spectrum emulation scene is in no way more penalized. Some projects simply don't ever get to see the followup that deserve or make the author feel their time was justified. Most projects don't... Almost all projects don't.
In all honesty however, my experience tells me that often is the project just born of the author wishes (and not from auscultation) that is usually the most successful one. And this is not really because the project gets a crowd, but because the author usually has no expectations whatsoever regarding that crowd but instead concentrates on doing what they feel they themselves need or want.
After all, Success is a measure for Objectives. If the objectives don't include the notion of readers/players/pagehits -- or set these to low -- worries lie somewhere else.
Other than the difference between what people ask and what they are willing to give that you already mentioned, and what I just talked about I think there's a third issue to take into consideration...
Selective memory is an unfortunate powerful bug of our minds. It's rather easy to look at a small number of requests for a certain feature and sometime later equate that as "people asked for this feature" or "lots of people asked for this feature". There's usually a big difference between 20 people asking something on these forums (and doing it repeateadly) and 20 people using that feature once its implemented. The difference is that 20 people is a crowd in these forums, but hardly a representative number to justify a new project or make it worthwile (if indeed usage numbers is an objective).
EDIT: However, I didn't read Shadow Maker comments in this light. All I read is someone blaming everyone for not helping even before he started with the project. His rather ridiculous approach was "I want to do something but I probably won't because no one is going to help". Help comes in many forms and shapes. But unless someone is truly inspired by some idea, usually it only shows after some form of work has been already done and the author shows they are committed. You see... there's also the other side of the coin. And that is, I'm particularly tired of investing my time helping out projects which are later abandoned by their author.
FELLOW SPEC-CHUMS! WE TOTALLY NEED A DEFINITIVE PLACE TO ANNOUNCE THIS STUFF WHEN IT GETS RELEASED!
Ah yes. I had something of that sort in mind when I thought of my rather neglected website half a year ago - an extension to it dedicated to new game releases. Alas, I lost interest in the project soon after when I realised that I myself don't play these new game releases enough to be motivated to keep the project afloat over an extended period of time.
Looking forward to somebody(else) doing it though! :)
Right now it's just doing the simplest thing possible, so it's a bit barebones (not even any screenshots yet...) but there may well be more features added in future, once the gears have started spinning a bit and we can see what's realistically going to be useful.
I know many people will have played some of these new games for the first time, as one of the main purposes of this thread was letting know the new speccy games more widely, and I wonder If any of you who have already voted would change his vote now.
It seems that the poll is closed, so We can say that officially, acording to WOS forums, the best game of last year 2008, is splATTR, second position for ilogicALL, and third for School of Thieves.
Congrats, and we expect more games for this 2009!
1-splATTR
2-ilogicALL
3-School of Thieves
Comments
Give people a chance...
Sounds like a good idea, a place where announce to the community the new releases.
:)
Yes, we need to spread the good word of this page more and farther.
Well, that's all very well as long as you're happy to visit the page regularly on the offchance that there's a new Speccy release rather than a mountain of "Joe Bloggs provided an inlay scan of Advanced Foobar Simulator"... (Not to belittle the fine archiving work that goes on day in day out on this site - just that it makes the What's New page less immediately useful as a source of general Speccy news.)
But that aside, that's actually a really good point. Now that I've given that page a fresh look for the first time in ages, I have to say that it does a pretty damn good job of documenting new releases, more so than I would have given it credit for - especially as Martijn has been dutifully labelling them with the "Brand new software for 200x" header for some time now. And I can see the possibilities for extracting that data into a news site that I would want to use (which in my case basically boils down to: something with an RSS feed containing just the juicy bits), and hopefully others would too - especially the more 'casual' followers of the Speccy scene.
So I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. How about I have a go at building that site this weekend?
Martijn??
I would like to see an HTML page for each year of Spectrum releases (post-1992). New entries could be added to the 2009 page, and gradually the pages for the previous years could be written. I quite like the way how Digital Prawn listed the games in CSSCGC 2008, so that would be the template I'd use.
To see what has been released in 2008 I had to do an "advanced search" in infoseek, setting year of release to =2008. There's actually quite a few in that list - and most of them I'd never heard of. This is a shame as if the games are good I'd like to praise the author and encourage them to write more.
I did try Albatrossity and I have to say the in-game music is superb. I still prefer Tilt! though...
You can also sign up to get WoS updates automatically via e-mail. Just go to the "What's New" page and there is a field toward the top you can fill in with your e-mail to get the updates.
Looking forward to seeing your site, have you thought of how you would set it up? WordPress where people can comment on each game, perhaps with snapshots from the game(s) ... or perhaps Google Groups, where subscribers can add their own little tidbits on the games? Or ... ??? :-)
So please stop flooding. Really, go play with toys or anything, leave me alone with my attitude.
People tend to get along here with some light hearted banter. Virtually all threads weave on and off topic, get used to it.
Trolls tend to get crucified, be careful.
Please tell him you need him and you can't live without his help. Shadow Maker needs all of you to say Thank You and Please because without public recognition and a flood of requests, Shadow Maker is to cool to be bothered.
Careful now. You're not :p
I very like how gasman behave himself in this case, he is the man who DO rather than talk about what he can do.
Well, I do have some free time, So I'll keep arguing.
Karingal's point was that you cannot ask people to help, assume no one will help and give up on your project. It just doesn't make sense.
If indeed you are a person of action as you advertise yourself to be, you Just Do It! the Nike way. Meanwhile if you are not the talk type of person as you also advertise yourself not to be, then I'm pretty sure that you have more lines coded already than words in this debate.
Praising other people attitude doesn't suddenly change my view of yours. It however can serve as an inspiration to you.
I didn't mention Spud until I had a version ready for release but after that feedback and response is essential.
Shadow Maker,
Karingal and I have had our arguments (I've put a few backs up on here and other forums, as I speak my mind, often without thinking first), but I have to say that I don't recall Karingal ever provoking an argument (though he provokes discussion, which is the point of these forums), and he certainly isn't in this thread.
Yet in every thread I've seen you post in, your posts seem to be worded either carelessly or provoketively. Actually, just look at your responses in the latest thread I've read which you posted in, the Fuse PSP has been updated! thread, at:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23358
If that's not enough, then look at your responses in the threads USRO, Best Game of 2008, Do you really want to play a new cool, interesting, but rather hard game? They are
To be honest, if it's going to have comments / reviews at all then I'd just pull them in from spectrum20.org. No point in duplicating what already exists...
Incidentally, while I don't necessarily agree with everything Shadow Maker says or the way that he phrases it (I don't see anything wrong with calling Fuse PSP fantastic even if it is missing a few obscure features - the fact that it exists at all is fantastic...) I can see where he's coming from on topics like this one. The fact is, there's a huge mismatch on this scene between people saying "yes, if you do <game / website / project X> then I'll definitely <play / review / buy / use> it!" and them actually carrying out those promises. I've seen it myself with Comet Chaos - I was very happy to see the resurgence of interest in it a couple of months back, but for a long time the feedback I'd got from it was way out of line from the number of people who must have said "hey, wouldn't it be great if we could play Chaos online?" over the years. I imagine aowen would say much the same thing about the "let's build a super-Spectrum!" topics that have popped up since the dawn of time. I know it's only human nature to make positive noises when it doesn't involve actually doing any work, but when that results in exciting new projects going unappreciated (or worse, falling flat through lack of support) then that's a crying shame.
So when Shadow Maker says something to the effect of "I *could* build a website, but no-one's going to contribute to it", it's not a sign of an attitude problem - it is, sadly, all too true (it's just that he's the first person to put it quite so bluntly). Don't agree with me? Go on then, prove me wrong. I dare you...
On the contrary. I recently commented on something similar somewhere on these forums.
However this is true of any project in any field. The ZX Spectrum emulation scene is in no way more penalized. Some projects simply don't ever get to see the followup that deserve or make the author feel their time was justified. Most projects don't... Almost all projects don't.
In all honesty however, my experience tells me that often is the project just born of the author wishes (and not from auscultation) that is usually the most successful one. And this is not really because the project gets a crowd, but because the author usually has no expectations whatsoever regarding that crowd but instead concentrates on doing what they feel they themselves need or want.
After all, Success is a measure for Objectives. If the objectives don't include the notion of readers/players/pagehits -- or set these to low -- worries lie somewhere else.
Other than the difference between what people ask and what they are willing to give that you already mentioned, and what I just talked about I think there's a third issue to take into consideration...
Selective memory is an unfortunate powerful bug of our minds. It's rather easy to look at a small number of requests for a certain feature and sometime later equate that as "people asked for this feature" or "lots of people asked for this feature". There's usually a big difference between 20 people asking something on these forums (and doing it repeateadly) and 20 people using that feature once its implemented. The difference is that 20 people is a crowd in these forums, but hardly a representative number to justify a new project or make it worthwile (if indeed usage numbers is an objective).
EDIT: However, I didn't read Shadow Maker comments in this light. All I read is someone blaming everyone for not helping even before he started with the project. His rather ridiculous approach was "I want to do something but I probably won't because no one is going to help". Help comes in many forms and shapes. But unless someone is truly inspired by some idea, usually it only shows after some form of work has been already done and the author shows they are committed. You see... there's also the other side of the coin. And that is, I'm particularly tired of investing my time helping out projects which are later abandoned by their author.
Ah yes. I had something of that sort in mind when I thought of my rather neglected website half a year ago - an extension to it dedicated to new game releases. Alas, I lost interest in the project soon after when I realised that I myself don't play these new game releases enough to be motivated to keep the project afloat over an extended period of time.
Looking forward to somebody(else) doing it though! :)
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
http://freshbeep.zxdemo.org/
Right now it's just doing the simplest thing possible, so it's a bit barebones (not even any screenshots yet...) but there may well be more features added in future, once the gears have started spinning a bit and we can see what's realistically going to be useful.
Now it would be good to announce it or give it more publicity :)
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
I know many people will have played some of these new games for the first time, as one of the main purposes of this thread was letting know the new speccy games more widely, and I wonder If any of you who have already voted would change his vote now.
Any change?? :)
Congrats, and we expect more games for this 2009!
1-splATTR
2-ilogicALL
3-School of Thieves