I've been lurking around this site for years, but this thread has made me very angry - angry enough that I am posting my first message here.
I wan't at byte Back but watched the linked Youtube videos kindly provided by the OP of this thread.
Although very entertaining, what I witnessed was Simon basically taking over the entire talk and essentially taking credit for much of Ocean's success (at least that's how it sounded to me). As well as damning the way the entire company was run, he also had a very serious pop at one of the Ocean producers (Gordon) which seemed to come from a very dark place. To cap it all, he then mocked one of the best contemporary games (Fable2), implying that it wasn't 'original' and holding it as an example of why all today's games were rubbish. What utter twaddle!
Ok, it was entertaining and funny but his description didn't't exactly sound like the Ocean I had read so much about on this forum, which does make me question the accuracy of Simon's memories.
My favourite Ocean Speccy games were the likes of Robocop, Head Over Heels, and Target Renegade - none of which seemed to show any contribution from Simon which begs the question, how much influence did he really have there?
But the catalyst that made me write this was the disgusting and nasty attack on our regular contributor here, frobush. I have enjoyed Jof's ramblings at WoS for a long time and to read this unwarranted attack on someone who was obviously 'over-medicated' seems extremely below the belt. Simon suggests that jof insulted him in public (although watching the vids, I didn't witness any malice at all from him) and then proceeds to rant about the poor guys appearance, odour and demeanour. Really, really appalling.
I think frobush has showed admirable humility in his responses to this and Bitter Butler might take heed of some of the other responses to his rants on this thread and think carefully about how much hurt his words can cause.
I have many fond memories of my old Speccy and in particular the companies that made the games for them. I think Simon has sullied the reputation of both Ocean and (mostly) himself.
I missed the beginning the talk and saw the state Joffa was sadly in.
I dont blame Simon for being so annoyed, at the end of the day we werent in his position, talking on a stage, people watching, being rudely 'heckled' etc must have been very difficult, he could have snapped there and then but with cameras/people and trying to be professional he didnt.
Its a sad situation, i'm sure Joffa does regret it, but hes obviously in a bad place right now and I hope he gets better. Great talent back in the 80's big time and from his time on here hes a ver funny and top bloke.
simon/Mark/James etc were very good, very interesting talk and thanks a ton for coming down. Do appreciate it.
I don't know why I said I'd do it in the first place! I don't do these things because I can't!
At least it has given loads of things for people to talk and laugh and fight about!
So that must be okay! (?)
And I've destroyed your image of me! But not on purpose!
And I'm not going to curl up in a corner. I didn't want to be there, shouldn't have been there, and now I'm elsewhere. 'Standing' in a corner with my back to everyone. With a "dunce" cap on my head, and waiting for the bell to ring.
You havent destroyed any image mate, you ere nervous as hell, looks like you took something to calm your nerves, seems like obviously too much. We've all been in similar situations, getting too drunk etc and regretting things !
Well done for coming to the show, that must have taken a lot to do that.
You wont be remembered for all the wrong reasons, you're a huge talent, top bloke for doing another game shortly (Saucer) for us to play also, so thanks for that.
I really enjoyed the weekend, had a brief chat with Mark, Jim is a top bloke also, didnt get a chance to talk to Steve (NOMAD is a classic !) but enjoyed his talk.
Nonsense. People remember you for the great games you created, just like Arjun said. I know I do!
One public performance doesn't change anything, be it positively or negatively.
Seconded.
After all, everyone of us is human and we all have positive and negative points to our personality. You screwed up at something you were incredibly nervous about and tried to make what you felt what was a bad situation better: failed; big deal, that just makes you as human as the rest of us. I can understand Simon venting his spleen; I think I would have been pissed off after too, (probably more so) given the circumstances.
I truly hope it doesn't mean *either* of you neglect the retro scene after a bad experience. You are both valuable contributors to a past that many, many folks hold dear to their hearts and it would be a crying shame if either of you turned your backs on it. I believe I can speak for most regular posters on WOS in saying that we *really* want to hear what you've got to say.
I sincerely hope that both of you continue to contribute to this wonderful site.
Frobush, you made my day a couple of years ago when you confirmed my suspicions about the world record on the swimming in Hypersports, although you have probably long forgotten about it. If it weren't for you posting on here I'd still be in denial ;-)
Simon, I would love to hear some of the stories you may have about the beginnings of the videogame market back in the very early 80's. We all know who you worked for; there are many here who would love to hear your thoughts and reminisces.
But I still don't know why Simon didn't talk to Joffa via PM about this instead of letting it out here, it would have been better.
I agree, obviously very angry about being embarassed there, can understand that but perhaps the long posts (though interesting to read) might have gone too far. But not in his shoes, could see he was obviously angry while doing his Ocean speeches but still did a great job.
At the end of the day i think it would have been wise to hold Joffa back to just get him some fresh air etc.
Hasnt taken the sparkle off a great weekend though, was interesting as anything to hear their speeches.
I think Mark said he edited-out Jof falling at the start but nothing else. I certainly don't remember Jof having a go at Simon on stage, I remember a dig about having to sit next to him in the car and that was it. He did try and interrupt him a few times, though, although much of the time what he said was mumbled and hard to hear (the mics weren't working so they had to talk loudly and clearly to be heard).
I think that considering Joffa said he was "pooing brick" (or similar) prior to the event and knowing that he hated such places that he was at the point of needing to take some "medication" so as to not let his fans down shows what a great chap he really is. The fact that it all went Pete Tonge to me is irrelevant. Against his better judgement he made his best efforts to not let anyone down and ended up in a bad place because of it.
I think that considering Joffa said he was "pooing brick" (or similar) prior to the event and knowing that he hated such places that he was at the point of needing to take some "medication" so as to not let his fans down shows what a great chap he really is. The fact that it all went Pete Tonge to me is irrelevant. Against his better judgement he made his best efforts to not let anyone down and ended up in a bad place because of it.
I agree, I think JS had good intentions but it did all go a bit pear-shaped.
On the day I thought he'd had one too many and was maybe just a bit of a bevvy-head; having discovered that he was actually trying to deal with a crippling fear of being on stage throws a different light on things.
I think Simon needs a "Saucer" of milk after all the catty comments. ooo <groan> that was awfull. Sorry I will have to think of a better joke next time. :oops:
I think Simon needs a "Saucer" of milk after all the catty comments. ooo <groan> that was awfull. Sorry I will have to think of a better joke next time. :oops:
Perhaps someone could write a little program to sort out the first letter of those words and PM me the results.
I have no grimes with Simes. But if he comes looking for work off of me, he isn't gunna get it! Just like old times!
Did you manage to get some sleep in the end?
To re-iterate what a lot of people here have said, don't worry about all this too much. It's not easy doing something you're afraid of. I had to fly last year, something that gives me the old wobbly-tummy, and I had to knock back three pints at the airport bar over the space of about an hour before getting on a plane felt "do-able". It's not easy.
I cringe when i look back at some of the things i've done but on the other hand i now find them also amusing...
- Being 18 and having to do a presentation/role play in front of 100 people at work, i totally crumbled, it was a waynes world moment with me going 'ummm ahhh ummm' for about 2 minutes before melting into sweat ! Hate thinking back to it but cant help it !
- Changing a wedding speech when i was best man to include a paedophile joke, i've learnt that what i find funny other people might not ! hearing people boo wasnt good !
- Pulling a really nice girl and then drinking far too much and embarassing myself by puking in a taxi (there is an even worse tale than that one !)
Oh well ! You live and learn and you look back sometimes thinking 'hey it was rock n roll' etc ! ;)
I think Simon needs a "Saucer" of milk after all the catty comments. ooo <groan> that was awfull. Sorry I will have to think of a better joke next time. :oops:
To re-iterate what a lot of people here have said, don't worry about all this too much. It's not easy doing something you're afraid of. I had to fly last year, something that gives me the old wobbly-tummy, and I had to knock back three pints at the airport bar over the space of about an hour before getting on a plane felt "do-able". It's not easy.
I'm sorry for everything. But at least I know now that I need to move on! This is not for me!
- Pulling a really nice girl and then drinking far too much and embarassing myself by puking in a taxi (there is an even worse tale than that one !)
was the worse one, the one you told me about the french bird?
i once went on a date with a really hot girl, i mean she was out of my league, but i got really stonned before i went. i could barely speak, and she told me i stunk of ganja and went home. i had a good time though.
i was spending a night with a girl once, and i had shagged her four times over a couple of hours, but when i was getting ready for the fifth go, i couldn't get it up. i know! totally embaressing, i just grabbed my clothes and legged it, she shouted after me that it didn't matter, and i could stay, but i knew she must secretly be laughing at me.
If it helps you any, I'm also pretty awkward in social situations with complete strangers (when I go to a party full of strangers, to me it feels a bit like a non-swimmer would feel alone on a very very small dinghy in the north Irish Sea - not actually about to drown but enormously uncomfortable and afraid). However, over the years what I've found to help for public speaking is just imagining that the audience isn't there. It takes a little practise.
What was a revelation to me was doing a radio interview, and finding it totally, and utterly a non-event. I may have been talking to 50,000 people - but I couldn't see them - all I could see is the interviewer (and my two friends also taking part), so it just felt like a chat around a table with friends. In fact, after that experience, despite being a bit of a social misfit at a party, I'm certain I could be interviewed on Radio 4 in front of millions - but because I can't see them, well, they aren't there!
So I try to treat the few occasions where I have an audience more or less the same way; make sure I've done a bit of preparation (how much depends on the subject and the format) and then do everything in my power to imagine the audience away. I know my reaction to "mind altering substances" and while they may make the fear go away, they would do something far worse (I'd even avoid beer).
was the worse one, the one you told me about the french bird?
i once went on a date with a really hot thai pre-op tranny, i mean the he-she was out of my league, but i got really stonned before i went. i could barely speak, and she told me i stunk of ganja and went home. i had a good time though.
i was spending a night with another tranny once, and i had shagged him/her four times over a couple of minutes, but when i was getting ready for the fifth go, i couldn't get it up despite looking at gay porn. i know! totally embaressing, i just grabbed my thong and legged it, the pre-op transexual shouted after me that it didn't matter, and i could stay, but i knew the tranny must secretly be laughing at me.
Ha ha yeah the french girl (good memory !), that was the worst one, funny though.
And yes my wife was laughing at you for not being able to perform a 5th time ! She still jokes about it now. Its good i can see the funny side, 4 times, hmmm okay, but a 5th, hell no, i would have gone livid then
Ha ha yeah the french girl (good memory !), that was the worst one, funny though.
And yes my wife was laughing at you for not being able to perform a 5th time ! She still jokes about it now. Its good i can see the funny side, 4 times, hmmm okay, but a 5th, hell no, i would have gone livid then
good memory, its very hard to shift that image. :)
yeah 5 times is almost a marriage proposal where i come from.
I could've done 5 times, when I was younger but now I'd have blood coming off my tow rope and swollen lymph nodes all over the place.
I did end up in a student house once, it was really bizarre. I'd got sick of going to Bulletproof which was full of wiggers and wannabe gangsta types, so me and my mates started trolling one of the uni nightclubs in town. I smoked a shitload of weed before I went did 2 E's while I was in there and drank a fuckload of spirits.
Outside I met this chick who approached me as I was wobbling around and puking into one of the bins outside, she was really nice to me, and she was getting a taxi so I told her where I lived, turned out she lived on the top block of my street across the main road, and she offered me a free ride home. I was like yeah alright then, so we rode home and the taxi stopped outside her house, so she said "wanna come in?" I was like "uh huh", so I did.
Well she vanished somewhere in the house, and one of her flatmates who was obviously up to her eyeballs on something told me to get upstairs and get my kit off, so I thought "yeah alright then", so I went upstairs and was taking my T-Shirt off and had my pants round my ankles when another female flatmate made me go back downstairs or she'd call the police.
Then I sat in their living room generally being obnoxious and taking the piss out of them all, because they said something about my jacket. So the girl I came in with was really pissed off with me because obviously she wanted to shag me, then the girl who told me to get my kit off came downstairs in a kimono and was really pissed off with me because I didn't shag her, then the girl who threatened me with the law for trying to shag her flatmates went to bed (I'm betting she was jealous cos' she was a munter and the other 2 weren't). Then one of the guys who lived there took me into the kitchen and gave me a line of PCP, 20 minutes and a lot of vodka later I filled their kitchen sink with puke. Punched one of the guys who lived there, and put somebodies shoes in the microwave for 50 minutes.
I saw the girl who had taken me there a few weeks later in Spar, that was an uncomfortable moment where she said hello, and I kinda went "yeah ummm er".
Turned out the guy that gave me the PCP was a barman at that uni nightclub so I had to say hello to him every time I went there after that.
Word of advice PCP is very rare in the UK, if you do have the opportunity to take it don't it's very strange. Makes you feel detatched whilst at the same time incredibly aggressive and invincible. I can understand why it takes 10 cops to take down an 80 year old PCP addict, it makes you go completely loopy.
i once went on a date with a really hot girl, i mean she was out of my league, but i got really stonned before i went. i could barely speak, and she told me i stunk of ganja and went home. i had a good time though.
Comments
I think they went wrong calling food stuff "in a bucket".
I may be wrong here.
EDIT - marketing men/women - this is not good!
Well it's still one step up from "warm dead bird".
I wan't at byte Back but watched the linked Youtube videos kindly provided by the OP of this thread.
Although very entertaining, what I witnessed was Simon basically taking over the entire talk and essentially taking credit for much of Ocean's success (at least that's how it sounded to me). As well as damning the way the entire company was run, he also had a very serious pop at one of the Ocean producers (Gordon) which seemed to come from a very dark place. To cap it all, he then mocked one of the best contemporary games (Fable2), implying that it wasn't 'original' and holding it as an example of why all today's games were rubbish. What utter twaddle!
Ok, it was entertaining and funny but his description didn't't exactly sound like the Ocean I had read so much about on this forum, which does make me question the accuracy of Simon's memories.
My favourite Ocean Speccy games were the likes of Robocop, Head Over Heels, and Target Renegade - none of which seemed to show any contribution from Simon which begs the question, how much influence did he really have there?
But the catalyst that made me write this was the disgusting and nasty attack on our regular contributor here, frobush. I have enjoyed Jof's ramblings at WoS for a long time and to read this unwarranted attack on someone who was obviously 'over-medicated' seems extremely below the belt. Simon suggests that jof insulted him in public (although watching the vids, I didn't witness any malice at all from him) and then proceeds to rant about the poor guys appearance, odour and demeanour. Really, really appalling.
I think frobush has showed admirable humility in his responses to this and Bitter Butler might take heed of some of the other responses to his rants on this thread and think carefully about how much hurt his words can cause.
I have many fond memories of my old Speccy and in particular the companies that made the games for them. I think Simon has sullied the reputation of both Ocean and (mostly) himself.
I dont blame Simon for being so annoyed, at the end of the day we werent in his position, talking on a stage, people watching, being rudely 'heckled' etc must have been very difficult, he could have snapped there and then but with cameras/people and trying to be professional he didnt.
Its a sad situation, i'm sure Joffa does regret it, but hes obviously in a bad place right now and I hope he gets better. Great talent back in the 80's big time and from his time on here hes a ver funny and top bloke.
simon/Mark/James etc were very good, very interesting talk and thanks a ton for coming down. Do appreciate it.
I'm f*cking rushing off all of this!
You havent destroyed any image mate, you ere nervous as hell, looks like you took something to calm your nerves, seems like obviously too much. We've all been in similar situations, getting too drunk etc and regretting things !
Well done for coming to the show, that must have taken a lot to do that.
You wont be remembered for all the wrong reasons, you're a huge talent, top bloke for doing another game shortly (Saucer) for us to play also, so thanks for that.
I really enjoyed the weekend, had a brief chat with Mark, Jim is a top bloke also, didnt get a chance to talk to Steve (NOMAD is a classic !) but enjoyed his talk.
Dont disappear whatever you do
Seconded.
After all, everyone of us is human and we all have positive and negative points to our personality. You screwed up at something you were incredibly nervous about and tried to make what you felt what was a bad situation better: failed; big deal, that just makes you as human as the rest of us. I can understand Simon venting his spleen; I think I would have been pissed off after too, (probably more so) given the circumstances.
I truly hope it doesn't mean *either* of you neglect the retro scene after a bad experience. You are both valuable contributors to a past that many, many folks hold dear to their hearts and it would be a crying shame if either of you turned your backs on it. I believe I can speak for most regular posters on WOS in saying that we *really* want to hear what you've got to say.
I sincerely hope that both of you continue to contribute to this wonderful site.
Frobush, you made my day a couple of years ago when you confirmed my suspicions about the world record on the swimming in Hypersports, although you have probably long forgotten about it. If it weren't for you posting on here I'd still be in denial ;-)
Simon, I would love to hear some of the stories you may have about the beginnings of the videogame market back in the very early 80's. We all know who you worked for; there are many here who would love to hear your thoughts and reminisces.
I agree, obviously very angry about being embarassed there, can understand that but perhaps the long posts (though interesting to read) might have gone too far. But not in his shoes, could see he was obviously angry while doing his Ocean speeches but still did a great job.
At the end of the day i think it would have been wise to hold Joffa back to just get him some fresh air etc.
Hasnt taken the sparkle off a great weekend though, was interesting as anything to hear their speeches.
I think Mark said he edited-out Jof falling at the start but nothing else. I certainly don't remember Jof having a go at Simon on stage, I remember a dig about having to sit next to him in the car and that was it. He did try and interrupt him a few times, though, although much of the time what he said was mumbled and hard to hear (the mics weren't working so they had to talk loudly and clearly to be heard).
I have nothing but continued admiration for him.
I agree, I think JS had good intentions but it did all go a bit pear-shaped.
On the day I thought he'd had one too many and was maybe just a bit of a bevvy-head; having discovered that he was actually trying to deal with a crippling fear of being on stage throws a different light on things.
He did. Boy did he.
Perhaps someone could write a little program to sort out the first letter of those words and PM me the results.
I have no grimes with Simes. But if he comes looking for work off of me, he isn't gunna get it! Just like old times!
Why does that joke make me laugh? Why?
Did you manage to get some sleep in the end?
To re-iterate what a lot of people here have said, don't worry about all this too much. It's not easy doing something you're afraid of. I had to fly last year, something that gives me the old wobbly-tummy, and I had to knock back three pints at the airport bar over the space of about an hour before getting on a plane felt "do-able". It's not easy.
- Being 18 and having to do a presentation/role play in front of 100 people at work, i totally crumbled, it was a waynes world moment with me going 'ummm ahhh ummm' for about 2 minutes before melting into sweat ! Hate thinking back to it but cant help it !
- Changing a wedding speech when i was best man to include a paedophile joke, i've learnt that what i find funny other people might not ! hearing people boo wasnt good !
- Pulling a really nice girl and then drinking far too much and embarassing myself by puking in a taxi (there is an even worse tale than that one !)
Oh well ! You live and learn and you look back sometimes thinking 'hey it was rock n roll' etc ! ;)
Brilliant!
I'm sorry for everything. But at least I know now that I need to move on! This is not for me!
was the worse one, the one you told me about the french bird?
i once went on a date with a really hot girl, i mean she was out of my league, but i got really stonned before i went. i could barely speak, and she told me i stunk of ganja and went home. i had a good time though.
i was spending a night with a girl once, and i had shagged her four times over a couple of hours, but when i was getting ready for the fifth go, i couldn't get it up. i know! totally embaressing, i just grabbed my clothes and legged it, she shouted after me that it didn't matter, and i could stay, but i knew she must secretly be laughing at me.
What was a revelation to me was doing a radio interview, and finding it totally, and utterly a non-event. I may have been talking to 50,000 people - but I couldn't see them - all I could see is the interviewer (and my two friends also taking part), so it just felt like a chat around a table with friends. In fact, after that experience, despite being a bit of a social misfit at a party, I'm certain I could be interviewed on Radio 4 in front of millions - but because I can't see them, well, they aren't there!
So I try to treat the few occasions where I have an audience more or less the same way; make sure I've done a bit of preparation (how much depends on the subject and the format) and then do everything in my power to imagine the audience away. I know my reaction to "mind altering substances" and while they may make the fear go away, they would do something far worse (I'd even avoid beer).
Anywho, I hope everyone concerned can move on...
Ha ha yeah the french girl (good memory !), that was the worst one, funny though.
And yes my wife was laughing at you for not being able to perform a 5th time ! She still jokes about it now. Its good i can see the funny side, 4 times, hmmm okay, but a 5th, hell no, i would have gone livid then
I wish I could say the same. When I did mine I was a nervous wreck...
On the plus side, it convinced me to never ever appear in any of my videos, even as just a voice-over...
good memory, its very hard to shift that image. :)
yeah 5 times is almost a marriage proposal where i come from.
Just piss off and leave me alone.
You win.
You are cool.
Kiss.
EDIT - that's stuff going on behind the scenes!
You didnt notice the joke in my post above where i 'might' have changed some details I was replying to, ! Doh
I did end up in a student house once, it was really bizarre. I'd got sick of going to Bulletproof which was full of wiggers and wannabe gangsta types, so me and my mates started trolling one of the uni nightclubs in town. I smoked a shitload of weed before I went did 2 E's while I was in there and drank a fuckload of spirits.
Outside I met this chick who approached me as I was wobbling around and puking into one of the bins outside, she was really nice to me, and she was getting a taxi so I told her where I lived, turned out she lived on the top block of my street across the main road, and she offered me a free ride home. I was like yeah alright then, so we rode home and the taxi stopped outside her house, so she said "wanna come in?" I was like "uh huh", so I did.
Well she vanished somewhere in the house, and one of her flatmates who was obviously up to her eyeballs on something told me to get upstairs and get my kit off, so I thought "yeah alright then", so I went upstairs and was taking my T-Shirt off and had my pants round my ankles when another female flatmate made me go back downstairs or she'd call the police.
Then I sat in their living room generally being obnoxious and taking the piss out of them all, because they said something about my jacket. So the girl I came in with was really pissed off with me because obviously she wanted to shag me, then the girl who told me to get my kit off came downstairs in a kimono and was really pissed off with me because I didn't shag her, then the girl who threatened me with the law for trying to shag her flatmates went to bed (I'm betting she was jealous cos' she was a munter and the other 2 weren't). Then one of the guys who lived there took me into the kitchen and gave me a line of PCP, 20 minutes and a lot of vodka later I filled their kitchen sink with puke. Punched one of the guys who lived there, and put somebodies shoes in the microwave for 50 minutes.
I saw the girl who had taken me there a few weeks later in Spar, that was an uncomfortable moment where she said hello, and I kinda went "yeah ummm er".
Turned out the guy that gave me the PCP was a barman at that uni nightclub so I had to say hello to him every time I went there after that.
Word of advice PCP is very rare in the UK, if you do have the opportunity to take it don't it's very strange. Makes you feel detatched whilst at the same time incredibly aggressive and invincible. I can understand why it takes 10 cops to take down an 80 year old PCP addict, it makes you go completely loopy.
looks pretty acurate to me. :grin:
HAR HAR HAR! Now, that is funny :grin: