Yes, "behind his back" in the sense that he is not (to my knowledge) a person who frequents the WoS forums. It may be obvious and blatant he frequents the rest of WoS.
I understand what you say, and the thread has not been posted lightly.
Paulo is ripping off not just WoS, but everyone in the Spectrum scene. The stated examples in the thread starter are just that, examples. He also still has TZX files on his site that were created by the TZX Vault team, for example, even though he was requested to remove their work years ago.
As you can see from the setup of his site, further plagiarisms are planned for the future, such as cassette inlays, maps and other files that he never contributed to.
As such, and after a considerable number of mail exchanges with Paulo over the past week, I decided to expose him to help "let him find the time" to remove plagiarised material. I promised him I'd do this if the material was still there by the end of Saturday (yesterday) and I always keep my promise if at all possible.
Indeed you have the privilege to lock the thread as a moderator, and I will not stand between it, but I felt it absolutely necessary to warn everyone out there that this is going on.
I hope you understand the reasoning behind it.
No worries, I shall not lock the thread :razz:
The manhours put into WoS and dedication put into it not only by Martijn and the WoS community is amazing. The selflessness displayed in the sharing of the Speccy knowledge is nearly profound and it most certainly is inspiring. The best evidence of that is Gamestage itself, no matter where the information comes from. I am saddened to hear the origins of Gamestage's information, or rather the complete lack of asking for permission to use it.
And I do understand your reasons. I am just concerned about the politeness of the forum. The thread was taking on too much of a "one-sided attack" ...
And I do understand your reasons. I am just concerned about the politeness of the forum. The thread was taking on too much of a "one-sided attack" ...
One sided attack?
Humm....
Have you seen his site? Nearly every page has 'We'ver going to be the NUMBER 1 Spectrum site!'
WTF???? up until gamestage reared its head I was under the impression the community was a whole, not a 'I'm better than you, I'm number 1' playfield...
Oh I think I'll shut up now before I say something I'll regret ;)
Martijn has every right to bring it to all WoS members attention if he wishes to, as stated earlier it's Martijn hard work being plagurised.
/me puts on asbestos suit...
how do you plagiarise hard work (the verb)? I understand how you plagiarise a work (the noun) but all the works on WoS are by other people (excluding the WoS graphics, page source etc, I'm not saying martijn hasn't created a lot of good stuff, but this isn't the stuff in question)
I agree some sort of attribution of the work (verb) done by other people collecting information about, and archiving spectrum works (the noun again) would be nice, but facts aren't copyrightable. Neither is a tzx image of someone else's content. If Gamestage wants to take all those facts and tape images (and screenshot maps, and inlay scans, and instructions and type-ins etc etc) and not say where they came from he's not technically doing anything wrong. I agree it's not *nice* when someone takes you for granted
Have you seen his site? Nearly every page has 'We'ver going to be the NUMBER 1 Spectrum site!'
WTF???? up until gamestage reared its head I was under the impression the community was a whole, not a 'I'm better than you, I'm number 1' playfield...
The WoS Forum Guidelines are in place for a reason. It's so that we do not fall down to the level so many other sites/forums operate on.
I agree some sort of attribution of the work (verb) done by other people collecting information about, and archiving spectrum works (the noun again) would be nice, but facts aren't copyrightable.
They actually are, as part of Title II of the DMCA ("Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitations Act"), where there is specific database copyright.
Successful court cases have been filed already, so there is sufficient precedence to demonstrate this.
Neither is a tzx image of someone else's content.
There is copyright in this as well, as derivative works, also part of the DMCA.
If Gamestage wants to take all those facts and tape images (and screenshot maps, and inlay scans, and instructions and type-ins etc etc) and not say where they came from he's not technically doing anything wrong.
But it's a damned good way of harming the scene.
If Gamestage's behaviour is considered acceptable, then that sort of behaviour becomes increasingly widespread.
Think about it. Why would someone continue contributing to the scene if their work is ripped off wholesale by other people? Why would they continue pouring time and money into this hobby if too many people treat them this way?
Damn the diplomacy, if people are being ripped off then others deserve to know.
Those people knowingly ripping off other people's efforts deserve everything they get.
Think about it. Why would someone continue contributing to the scene if their work is ripped off wholesale by other people?
maybe because they want to share the tapes, scans, maps they have made with other people who like the spectrum. Not because they are on an ego trip and count their success by the number of things they have scanned in and want everyone else to know...
maybe because they want to share the tapes, scans, maps they have made with other people who like the spectrum. Not because they are on an ego trip and count their success by the number of things they have scanned in and want everyone else to know...
Some call it an ego trip, others call it pride in contributing so much in a vain hope of repaying all those whose contributions I've enjoyed over the years. Baffling why some have a problem with that, but can't please everyone.
Am I really the only one who feels the Guidelines have been somewhat violated in this thread?
The WoS Forum Guidelines are in place for a reason. It's so that we do not fall down to the level so many other sites/forums operate on.
Well, things usually are not completely black or white, but i think Martijn is right about this.
Is not a huge problem using data from wos, but doing almost virtually copy/paste of the archive, even without pointing to the source is very insulting.
On the other hand i'm not sure that these people would help such a plagiarist:
PAVERO and TROELS NOERGAARD on the scene
We would also like to deliver a big THANK YOU to Pavero, creator of lots of excellent quality maps. You can also visit his site at: http://maps.speccy.cz.
Another person we would like to thank is Troels Noergaard, creator of ZZ spectrum emulator, which allowed Gamestage to have an on-line play feature. THANK you very much! His site is: http://www.zzspectrum.org/
COPYRIGHTS REMODELATION
We would also like to thank Paul Dunn for his time helping us at the Copyrights section. He helped us rectifying some English statements that are now much better! Thank you a lot!"
I feel sure that you can copyright documentation made by you. You made an effort of collecting the data, writing them down, catalogueing. It's your work and it shouldn't be used by other in their publications (both traditional paper books and digital websites) if you dont't agree.
I have even heard that encyclopaedia authors intentionally put some slight errors into their work. If somebody does copy/paste of their work, he will have the same errors in the same places and won't be able to lie that he gathered the info independently.
Of course, retrogaming from a legal point of view is a big grey area so instead of citing American, Portugese or whatever paragraphs we should use our own morality and common sense.
I have even heard that encyclopaedia authors intentionally put some slight errors into their work. If somebody does copy/paste of their work, he will have the same errors in the same places and won't be able to lie that he gathered the info independently.
All the game maps I've made through the years have very specific, minute errors, both obvious, and "hidden" ones. I keep account of these errors and should be able to pick out which maps are mine, if they happen to be missing the URLs I implement into the maps.
In real life, I do know that some on-line maps of towns and cities have certain errors implemented into them to help with copy/paste issues. The map of my city, in one of the local phonebooks is a living testament to this, and the "surveyors" of the maps do acknowledge this.
"On May 22, 2001, the European Union passed the Copyright Directive or EUCD, which addresses some of the same issues as the DMCA. But the DMCA's principal innovation in the field of copyright, the exemption from direct and indirect liability of internet service providers and other intermediaries (Title II of the DMCA), was separately addressed, and largely followed, in Europe by means of the separate Electronic Commerce Directive. "
Though it does not indicate 100% of the same, they are pretty similar.
There is more there, but I leave it up to you to read the rest.
"On May 22, 2001, the European Union passed the Copyright Directive or EUCD, which addresses some of the same issues as the DMCA. But the DMCA's principal innovation in the field of copyright, the exemption from direct and indirect liability of internet service providers and other intermediaries (Title II of the DMCA), was separately addressed, and largely followed, in Europe by means of the separate Electronic Commerce Directive. "
Though it does not indicate 100% of the same, they are pretty similar.
There is more there, but I leave it up to you to read the rest.
martijn says he doesn't mean the EUCD though, do try to keep up :)
Comments
I am fully aware of this. And I fully agree that the point being brought to light is a valid one.
But in its presented form it is neither diplomatic nor upbuilding.
Yes, "behind his back" in the sense that he is not (to my knowledge) a person who frequents the WoS forums. It may be obvious and blatant he frequents the rest of WoS.
I completely agree with you there but I disagree with the tone Martijn chose for his message.
I am unsure how to understand the latter half of your sentence (bold by me), please help me understand what you mean.
No worries, I shall not lock the thread :razz:
The manhours put into WoS and dedication put into it not only by Martijn and the WoS community is amazing. The selflessness displayed in the sharing of the Speccy knowledge is nearly profound and it most certainly is inspiring. The best evidence of that is Gamestage itself, no matter where the information comes from. I am saddened to hear the origins of Gamestage's information, or rather the complete lack of asking for permission to use it.
And I do understand your reasons. I am just concerned about the politeness of the forum. The thread was taking on too much of a "one-sided attack" ...
One sided attack?
Humm....
Have you seen his site? Nearly every page has 'We'ver going to be the NUMBER 1 Spectrum site!'
WTF???? up until gamestage reared its head I was under the impression the community was a whole, not a 'I'm better than you, I'm number 1' playfield...
Oh I think I'll shut up now before I say something I'll regret ;)
/me puts on asbestos suit...
how do you plagiarise hard work (the verb)? I understand how you plagiarise a work (the noun) but all the works on WoS are by other people (excluding the WoS graphics, page source etc, I'm not saying martijn hasn't created a lot of good stuff, but this isn't the stuff in question)
I agree some sort of attribution of the work (verb) done by other people collecting information about, and archiving spectrum works (the noun again) would be nice, but facts aren't copyrightable. Neither is a tzx image of someone else's content. If Gamestage wants to take all those facts and tape images (and screenshot maps, and inlay scans, and instructions and type-ins etc etc) and not say where they came from he's not technically doing anything wrong. I agree it's not *nice* when someone takes you for granted
The WoS Forum Guidelines are in place for a reason. It's so that we do not fall down to the level so many other sites/forums operate on.
There, there ... hug? :grin:
They actually are, as part of Title II of the DMCA ("Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitations Act"), where there is specific database copyright.
Successful court cases have been filed already, so there is sufficient precedence to demonstrate this.
There is copyright in this as well, as derivative works, also part of the DMCA.
But it's a damned good way of harming the scene.
If Gamestage's behaviour is considered acceptable, then that sort of behaviour becomes increasingly widespread.
Think about it. Why would someone continue contributing to the scene if their work is ripped off wholesale by other people? Why would they continue pouring time and money into this hobby if too many people treat them this way?
Damn the diplomacy, if people are being ripped off then others deserve to know.
Those people knowingly ripping off other people's efforts deserve everything they get.
As do those people who take others for granted.
Agree with you here though.
which is a US law, I thought gamestage was from portugal
maybe because they want to share the tapes, scans, maps they have made with other people who like the spectrum. Not because they are on an ego trip and count their success by the number of things they have scanned in and want everyone else to know...
An oft-thought mistake. The DMCA was signed by all European member states as well. That includes Portugal (and the UK).
Some call it an ego trip, others call it pride in contributing so much in a vain hope of repaying all those whose contributions I've enjoyed over the years. Baffling why some have a problem with that, but can't please everyone.
I meant the DMCA, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998.
Interestingly, your reply let me find a more direct reference: the Database right.
Sorry... Us meer mortals do let our passions run away at times.... However the moral high ground is yours. :D
Well, things usually are not completely black or white, but i think Martijn is right about this.
Is not a huge problem using data from wos, but doing almost virtually copy/paste of the archive, even without pointing to the source is very insulting.
On the other hand i'm not sure that these people would help such a plagiarist:
http://zx-pk.ru/
I have even heard that encyclopaedia authors intentionally put some slight errors into their work. If somebody does copy/paste of their work, he will have the same errors in the same places and won't be able to lie that he gathered the info independently.
Of course, retrogaming from a legal point of view is a big grey area so instead of citing American, Portugese or whatever paragraphs we should use our own morality and common sense.
Nothing wrong with that ... just make sure the outburst of passions falls within the WoS Forum Guidelines :grin:
Thank you, I can see my house from here :razz:
I'll just assume you've read something somewhere that I haven't, but I can't find any reference to the EU signing in the DMCA
All the game maps I've made through the years have very specific, minute errors, both obvious, and "hidden" ones. I keep account of these errors and should be able to pick out which maps are mine, if they happen to be missing the URLs I implement into the maps.
In real life, I do know that some on-line maps of towns and cities have certain errors implemented into them to help with copy/paste issues. The map of my city, in one of the local phonebooks is a living testament to this, and the "surveyors" of the maps do acknowledge this.
Let's just assume it's my job to know such things. ;-)
I bow before your infinite wisdom ;)
care to point me in the right direction so I can, er, expand my knowlege?
DMCA on Wikipedia:
"On May 22, 2001, the European Union passed the Copyright Directive or EUCD, which addresses some of the same issues as the DMCA. But the DMCA's principal innovation in the field of copyright, the exemption from direct and indirect liability of internet service providers and other intermediaries (Title II of the DMCA), was separately addressed, and largely followed, in Europe by means of the separate Electronic Commerce Directive. "
Though it does not indicate 100% of the same, they are pretty similar.
There is more there, but I leave it up to you to read the rest.
martijn says he doesn't mean the EUCD though, do try to keep up :)
*sigh*
Sorry, the hamster upstairs is running on fumes ... tuffy head today.
Someone didn't follow the URL I posted.
Hug?
:razz:
( Where is karingal, I needs my daily dosage of hugs, I does! )
I think I'll go to bed
That looks to be more of a lack of programming knowledge than a concious effort at the moment...