Well I did offer him an original copy for free (apart from 50p for postage) so he can plug a cassette tape\Walkman into the back of his PC and use one of the many tools for converting the analogue signal to digital. Then he can play it on his emulator.
I do agree with Philip Kendall's post regarding making a copy of a game you legally own as opposed to downloading a game you don't own the copy to. At least make SOME effort to get hold of a legal copy of what you're after rather than come on here asking for PMs as to where to get hold of a dodgy copy.
I've still got quite a few original games. I could get a walkman (dont have one anymore) to try and make an emulated image. Or i could simply download an emulator image (not feeling guilty as i already have the original tape in my hand). Seems very very pedantic to do all the above.
But is that 'legal' ? If we're talking about illegal/legal use of 25 year old computer games then is there any law saying youre allowed to make a copy of a game you legally own ? I thought that was a very very grey area. Eg can i make copies of my own dvds/music collection and its legal ? I remember talking to a german colleague about this as in Germany its illegal to do that (Thought it was similar in the UK ?)
But yeah at the end of the day theres something called Google so its funny when someone every 3 months asks where the denied games are etc.
Yes the games are Elites and they can do what they want with them. If they want to deny it then okay deny it, but its a shame when we cant even buy a copy to play the Speccy original.
Elite haven't denied anything - the denied Elite titles are capcom (mainly) licensed.
But is that 'legal' ? If we're talking about illegal/legal use of 25 year old computer games then is there any law saying youre allowed to make a copy of a game you legally own ? I thought that was a very very grey area. Eg can i make copies of my own dvds/music collection and its legal ? I thought in Germany for example thats illegal and its similar to the UK.
Making copies of games you already own - grey area
Obtaining copies of games you don't already own - black area
As you say...."I think the initial post was just frustration. Yes the games are Elites and they can do what they want with them. If they want to deny it then okay deny it, but its a shame when we cant even buy a copy to play the Speccy original."
I agree, it's a shame, and I see that if you're not agreeing 100% with what I say then you are at least open to the reasoning I use, and I thank you for that.
I agree, it's a shame, and I see that if you're not agreeing 100% with what I say then you are at least open to the reasoning I use, and I thank you for that.
No worries fella. Always nice to have a 'strong' discussion like this one without anyone going OTT or that. Makes a change from the usual 'whats the best dizzy game' etc
Had similar chats many times over the years here, specially when a newbie arrives and is upset that they cant play Knight Lore !
If Codemasters suddenly charged 99p for each of their games i would be quite happy to buy a lot of them and be 'legal'. Also if they had some decent sales which would surprise them (Obviously not saying they would make millions) you never know, they might think 'wouldnt it be good to create a new 'old' Speccy game considering there seems to be quite a few people interested' etc ? Be a feature in RG about this, would be good PR for Codemasters etc
Just a shame if the game 'disappears' completely and you cant play it no matter what, illegal/legal, you just cant play it. Shame
If you going illegal way, there are million other places where you can get the game. Only very few games in the history actually disappeared completely (because lack or very limited release).
No worries fella. Always nice to have a 'strong' discussion like this one without anyone going OTT or that. Makes a change from the usual 'whats the best dizzy game' etc
Had similar chats many times over the years here, specially when a newbie arrives and is upset that they cant play Knight Lore !
If Codemasters suddenly charged 99p for each of their games i would be quite happy to buy a lot of them and be 'legal'. Also if they had some decent sales which would surprise them (Obviously not saying they would make millions) you never know, they might think 'wouldnt it be good to create a new 'old' Speccy game considering there seems to be quite a few people interested' etc ? Be a feature in RG about this, would be good PR for Codemasters etc
Philip (or Andrew) Oliver has already said that the costs involved in new games means that a new Dizzy game will never happen as it will have limited audience and most games companies are only as good as their last game.
However, *should* someone create a new dizzy game, then the license kicks in...
It would be harder to negotiate a cost for the license if the old material is freely available.
As for Elite remaking arcade versions - thats what the original speccy games were... so they are protecting the license... *if* they had decided that since they owned the code, they could allow distribution, it would have affected their new business....
Distribution does not harm I.P...you can distribute and still retain copyright..if anything long term it would HELP rather than harm....as per the example of Carrier Command earlier.
It would be harder to negotiate a cost for the license if the old material is freely available.
not really if distribution was allowed under the statement of you are not allowed to use commercially .....as per the example of Carrier Command earlier...
NO ONE is ever going to pay for the original code again on anything of scale...the I.P can be sold for NEW development of the idea though....distribution of the original code in that case is far more likely to promote interest than harm it.
I own all the dizzy's (and about 30-50 other codemaster games)....personally I think the authors should be paying me for the vast majority of those! :lol:
aren't the old GTA games available? that doesn't seem the hurt rockstar.
from rockstars site
'The Rockstar Classics collection is our series of complimentary full PC game downloads, provided exclusively to members of the Rockstar Games mailing list. These games, each available free of charge and optimized for play on modern PCs, offer a nostalgic trip back in time to the early days of the Rockstar legacy.'
'Check out the link below to download all the entries in the Rockstar Classics series and be sure to stay tuned for future volumes as we continue to pillage the archives. Now don't say we never gave you anything.
I still think back in the day if you made a quality game kids will buy it no matter what.
I didnt have OCD or anything but back in the 80's i used to love collecting games from certain software houses. Eg all the Ultimate black cases, i loved the packaging back then (and they looked good on the shelf !) same for the Elite cases and Imagine (Hyper Sports etc).
My friends all had the originals of these games as well so despite one of us buying the game and the rest copying it we all wanted the original. Several times at Xmas friends would all get the same games.
But yeah i admit, back in the day after saving up 9 quid for ages and then getting a game and it turns out to be 'Knight Rider' was very upsetting to a young lad back in the 80's !
I still think back in the day if you made a quality game kids will buy it no matter what.
I didnt have OCD or anything but back in the 80's i used to love collecting games from certain software houses. Eg all the Ultimate black cases, i loved the packaging back then (and they looked good on the shelf !) same for the Elite cases and Imagine (Hyper Sports etc).
My friends all had the originals of these games as well so despite one of us buying the game and the rest copying it we all wanted the original. Several times at Xmas friends would all get the same games.
But yeah i admit, back in the day after saving up 9 quid for ages and then getting a game and it turns out to be 'Knight Rider' was very upsetting to a young lad back in the 80's !
I guess if you wrote a crappy 2.99 budget game back in 1983 and it's all you've ever done since...then your need to exercise your 'it's mine dammit!' rights is stronger than if you still produce top selling products now and distribute your older games as a loyalty reward to your customer/fan base...so strengthening that customer/company loyalty.
However...don't expect me to give a crap about your ego if you fall into the first category :lol:
We do a 'similar' thing where I work, we get calls from someone who has a 12yr old obsolete product of ours and needs parts and 9 times out of 10 we just stick em in a jiffy bag/box and mail them too him for free.
...they are ALWAYS so impressed by this service that they buy more products...one of our current top UPS customers is a guy I gave a $2 switch too for free....he acted like I was giving him the crown jewels...be nice to your customers and they will reward you with their loyalty and $$$...
I still think back in the day if you made a quality game kids will buy it no matter what.
I didnt have OCD or anything but back in the 80's i used to love collecting games from certain software houses. Eg all the Ultimate black cases, i loved the packaging back then (and they looked good on the shelf !) same for the Elite cases and Imagine (Hyper Sports etc).
My friends all had the originals of these games as well so despite one of us buying the game and the rest copying it we all wanted the original. Several times at Xmas friends would all get the same games.
But yeah i admit, back in the day after saving up 9 quid for ages and then getting a game and it turns out to be 'Knight Rider' was very upsetting to a young lad back in the day !
I bought Commando back in ther day and paid Elite (or whoever) my ?7.99
As far as I can see that gives me the right to play a rom of it on my PC? So what if I don't still have my original cassette , what difference should that make other than to prove that I bought it 25 years ago?
If Elite want to deny distribution , then that's their right - let's just be grateful that there are so many companies and kind people who ARE willing to - mainly thanks to the hard work of the guys at WOS
What surpises me more than anything though is that Elite still have the rights to the licence , wouldnt it normally have expired long before now and gone back to Capcom?
I bought Commando back in ther day and paid Elite (or whoever) my ?7.99
As far as I can see that gives me the right to play a rom of it on my PC? So what if I don't still have my original cassette , what difference should that make other than to prove that I bought it 25 years ago?
If Elite want to deny distribution , then that's their right - let's just be grateful that there are so many companies and kind people who ARE willing to - mainly thanks to the hard work of the guys at WOS
What surpises me more than anything though is that Elite still have the rights to the licence , wouldnt it normally have expired long before now and gone back to Capcom?
I bought Commando back in ther day and paid Elite (or whoever) my ?7.99
As far as I can see that gives me the right to play a rom of it on my PC? So what if I don't still have my original cassette , what difference should that make other than to prove that I bought it 25 years ago?
If Elite want to deny distribution , then that's their right - let's just be grateful that there are so many companies and kind people who ARE willing to - mainly thanks to the hard work of the guys at WOS
What surpises me more than anything though is that Elite still have the rights to the licence , wouldnt it normally have expired long before now and gone back to Capcom?
Morally, you are correct. You have paid your dues to the author. But legally, copyright is copyright. WOS only exists via playing by the book, for better or for worse, and overwhelmingly it is for the better. It is highly likely that the master for Commando has been lost over the years (including the source) and that the title does not even appear on a balance sheet anywhere.
The Speccy version would never ever become an income stream again but copyright holders must protect the copyright even if they do not wish to (otherwise they lose it). Commando is worth a lot of money in the mobile space but if they turn a blind eye to infringement of some piracy, then they lose their right to fight blatant theft (such as an iPhone game called Commandex which is pretty much a copy of the arcade game).
If you want to go 'off-piste' and take the law into your own hands, there are not many that would argue that you are doing anything immoral given your prior purchase and the fact that there exists no method of giving the author any service fee even if you wished to.However, WOS cannot be an accomplice in what is technically a crime (although of the victimless variety).
We all choose the crimes we commit and most of us commit victimless minor copyright offenses from time to time without consequence (even just recording something off the TV then loaning to a friend who might not have the same channel).
Don't get hung up on what is right and what is wrong. The finer points of copyright law is not for the people, it is for big-business. I totally agree with copyright law in principle but as mentioned earlier in this thread, for software in particular there should be a 'use-it-or-lose-it' clause at around 20-25 years (for specific versions) AND companies should be required to archive digital media in a central repository so that those that take on the task of custodians of our digital heritage are not persecuted for dedicating their lives to preservation.
There is a difference there though..If I was the admin/owner of WOS I too would abide by the copyright rules as in that position I would expect myself to set an example and only offer those I had permission to distribute etc.
...however....the OP, you and I are NOT admins/owners of this site..merely worms that use it and download slightly dodgy images.
In that position I'd say the chances of any action being taken against me for downloading 'Cor Blimey It's Brilliant' are slim to none...extradition for illegally downloading a speccy game WOULD be worth it to get on the TV news and yell 'I was framed!!!!...I have the original copy of Miami Chase under my bed..somewhere!!"
Now, if I was Mr WOS I would say those chances would increase HUGELY should I have them on my website so I would refrain from doing it for the good of the site/community/authors and my freedom and fear of the gas chamber.
So.....go ahead and google it!...live dangerously!
Or... if your moral compass waves at you and says 'You are going to hell my friend'...then don't.
Comments
I've still got quite a few original games. I could get a walkman (dont have one anymore) to try and make an emulated image. Or i could simply download an emulator image (not feeling guilty as i already have the original tape in my hand). Seems very very pedantic to do all the above.
But is that 'legal' ? If we're talking about illegal/legal use of 25 year old computer games then is there any law saying youre allowed to make a copy of a game you legally own ? I thought that was a very very grey area. Eg can i make copies of my own dvds/music collection and its legal ? I remember talking to a german colleague about this as in Germany its illegal to do that (Thought it was similar in the UK ?)
But yeah at the end of the day theres something called Google so its funny when someone every 3 months asks where the denied games are etc.
Elite haven't denied anything - the denied Elite titles are capcom (mainly) licensed.
Not seen any personal attacks yet.
Making copies of games you already own - grey area
Obtaining copies of games you don't already own - black area
As you say...."I think the initial post was just frustration. Yes the games are Elites and they can do what they want with them. If they want to deny it then okay deny it, but its a shame when we cant even buy a copy to play the Speccy original."
I agree, it's a shame, and I see that if you're not agreeing 100% with what I say then you are at least open to the reasoning I use, and I thank you for that.
No worries fella. Always nice to have a 'strong' discussion like this one without anyone going OTT or that. Makes a change from the usual 'whats the best dizzy game' etc
Had similar chats many times over the years here, specially when a newbie arrives and is upset that they cant play Knight Lore !
If Codemasters suddenly charged 99p for each of their games i would be quite happy to buy a lot of them and be 'legal'. Also if they had some decent sales which would surprise them (Obviously not saying they would make millions) you never know, they might think 'wouldnt it be good to create a new 'old' Speccy game considering there seems to be quite a few people interested' etc ? Be a feature in RG about this, would be good PR for Codemasters etc
Can only but dream ! You never know !
Has Commando only been denied in the last year or so ? I'm sure it wasnt denied before.
I know Ultimate/Codemasters have always been denied but i'm 'sure' i managed to download Commando from here in the past.
It's not so much about the money, but the I.P.
That's what they need to protect.
However, *should* someone create a new dizzy game, then the license kicks in...
It would be harder to negotiate a cost for the license if the old material is freely available.
As for Elite remaking arcade versions - thats what the original speccy games were... so they are protecting the license... *if* they had decided that since they owned the code, they could allow distribution, it would have affected their new business....
Distribution does not harm I.P...you can distribute and still retain copyright..if anything long term it would HELP rather than harm....as per the example of Carrier Command earlier.
not really if distribution was allowed under the statement of you are not allowed to use commercially .....as per the example of Carrier Command earlier...
NO ONE is ever going to pay for the original code again on anything of scale...the I.P can be sold for NEW development of the idea though....distribution of the original code in that case is far more likely to promote interest than harm it.
http://www.cinemaware.com/
..check the 'vault' section.
Surely it's Fantasy World Dizzy
from rockstars site
'The Rockstar Classics collection is our series of complimentary full PC game downloads, provided exclusively to members of the Rockstar Games mailing list. These games, each available free of charge and optimized for play on modern PCs, offer a nostalgic trip back in time to the early days of the Rockstar legacy.'
'Check out the link below to download all the entries in the Rockstar Classics series and be sure to stay tuned for future volumes as we continue to pillage the archives. Now don't say we never gave you anything.
www.rockstargames.com/classics '
I didnt have OCD or anything but back in the 80's i used to love collecting games from certain software houses. Eg all the Ultimate black cases, i loved the packaging back then (and they looked good on the shelf !) same for the Elite cases and Imagine (Hyper Sports etc).
My friends all had the originals of these games as well so despite one of us buying the game and the rest copying it we all wanted the original. Several times at Xmas friends would all get the same games.
But yeah i admit, back in the day after saving up 9 quid for ages and then getting a game and it turns out to be 'Knight Rider' was very upsetting to a young lad back in the 80's !
you said it twice in that post. :-P
I guess if you wrote a crappy 2.99 budget game back in 1983 and it's all you've ever done since...then your need to exercise your 'it's mine dammit!' rights is stronger than if you still produce top selling products now and distribute your older games as a loyalty reward to your customer/fan base...so strengthening that customer/company loyalty.
However...don't expect me to give a crap about your ego if you fall into the first category :lol:
We do a 'similar' thing where I work, we get calls from someone who has a 12yr old obsolete product of ours and needs parts and 9 times out of 10 we just stick em in a jiffy bag/box and mail them too him for free.
...they are ALWAYS so impressed by this service that they buy more products...one of our current top UPS customers is a guy I gave a $2 switch too for free....he acted like I was giving him the crown jewels...be nice to your customers and they will reward you with their loyalty and $$$...
Fixed that to score a hat-trick.
hat-trick, he he he
Every time you do this, a tiny mattress fairy dies.....:cry:
How come Miles is still with us then?
cos you gave me the clap.
If I gave you half of what I have you'd be dead by now :razz:
As far as I can see that gives me the right to play a rom of it on my PC? So what if I don't still have my original cassette , what difference should that make other than to prove that I bought it 25 years ago?
If Elite want to deny distribution , then that's their right - let's just be grateful that there are so many companies and kind people who ARE willing to - mainly thanks to the hard work of the guys at WOS
What surpises me more than anything though is that Elite still have the rights to the licence , wouldnt it normally have expired long before now and gone back to Capcom?
The distribution is denied by Capcom, not Elite.
Morally, you are correct. You have paid your dues to the author. But legally, copyright is copyright. WOS only exists via playing by the book, for better or for worse, and overwhelmingly it is for the better. It is highly likely that the master for Commando has been lost over the years (including the source) and that the title does not even appear on a balance sheet anywhere.
The Speccy version would never ever become an income stream again but copyright holders must protect the copyright even if they do not wish to (otherwise they lose it). Commando is worth a lot of money in the mobile space but if they turn a blind eye to infringement of some piracy, then they lose their right to fight blatant theft (such as an iPhone game called Commandex which is pretty much a copy of the arcade game).
If you want to go 'off-piste' and take the law into your own hands, there are not many that would argue that you are doing anything immoral given your prior purchase and the fact that there exists no method of giving the author any service fee even if you wished to.However, WOS cannot be an accomplice in what is technically a crime (although of the victimless variety).
We all choose the crimes we commit and most of us commit victimless minor copyright offenses from time to time without consequence (even just recording something off the TV then loaning to a friend who might not have the same channel).
Don't get hung up on what is right and what is wrong. The finer points of copyright law is not for the people, it is for big-business. I totally agree with copyright law in principle but as mentioned earlier in this thread, for software in particular there should be a 'use-it-or-lose-it' clause at around 20-25 years (for specific versions) AND companies should be required to archive digital media in a central repository so that those that take on the task of custodians of our digital heritage are not persecuted for dedicating their lives to preservation.
...however....the OP, you and I are NOT admins/owners of this site..merely worms that use it and download slightly dodgy images.
In that position I'd say the chances of any action being taken against me for downloading 'Cor Blimey It's Brilliant' are slim to none...extradition for illegally downloading a speccy game WOULD be worth it to get on the TV news and yell 'I was framed!!!!...I have the original copy of Miami Chase under my bed..somewhere!!"
Now, if I was Mr WOS I would say those chances would increase HUGELY should I have them on my website so I would refrain from doing it for the good of the site/community/authors and my freedom and fear of the gas chamber.
So.....go ahead and google it!...live dangerously!
Or... if your moral compass waves at you and says 'You are going to hell my friend'...then don't.
YOU decide!
Shouldn't that be 'See it! Shoot it!' ;)