i think though that the human soul was prolly floating about before it was born into a body but it got its memory wiped like c3po to avoid any future plot holes.
i think we have all been given the chance to come down to earth and experience this thing called life, and when we die we go back to that floaty excistence. i refuse to believe we just stop existing.
You just die, and that's it. Once the machinery of your brain shuts down, there's nothing. No, not blackness because blackness is something. There is simply... nothing at all, just like how you felt 2 years before you were born. It is impossible to imagine what that's like, so the human brain, which cannot effectively deal with this, invents things because some sort of other existence can be imagined, but non-existence cannot.
Yeah, I heard this one many times, and I'm not ruling it out as a distinct though very saddening possibility. "How you felt two years before our were born" you see this is what makes be believe there is something else. Maybe our conciousness lives in another dimension and sees this one via the mind.
Were is the antitheist option? I voted atheist anyway.
When I die, I die, my conciousness dies, and my body and brain will decay.
I am already experiencing an afterlife, as my genetics live on in my 4 children.
Enjoy your life, don't waste it. It is all you will get.
But if you believe that when you die, there will be nothing, then what moves you forward ? In fact, that doesn't matter what, or if anything at all is after death, you must believe that it's not the end, otherwise your all life's effort makes no sense for you. The time flows just forward, and when you reach the moment of death, there is no way back, there is just nothing, so it negates all your life and all your life made no sense for you at that moment. You were never born at that moment. Nobody can tell you, that you have 4 children, because there is nothing. This came to my mind after waking up from unconsciousness during a surgery in hospital. That nothing in unconsciousness really makes no sense, even a life of an ant makes infinitually bigger sense than that nothing.
Regarding the anti-theist option, to be anti-theist, you must also believe in God otherwise how can you be 'anti'? I bundled theist, deist, pantheist and anti-theist together in the first two options.
To me, this thread was more about natural versus supernatural rather than discussing or criticising particular beliefs (hence excluding partcular religion names from the poll).
But if you believe that when you die, there will be nothing, then what moves you forward ?
I am mainly motivated by the lives of my children, they are, after all part of me. So in a word, like pretty much all things that are alive, 'Reproduction'.
Also I don't want to die, not yet anyway, and as this is the only life I have, I want to make the most of it.
In fact, that doesn't matter what, or if anything at all is after death, you must believe that it's not the end, otherwise your all life's effort makes no sense for you. The time flows just forward, and when you reach the moment of death, there is no way back, there is just nothing, so it negates all your life and all your life made no sense for you at that moment.
It is not the end, just the end for the dead person. Thier legacy lives on. My life makes perfect sense to me.
This came to my mind after waking up from unconsciousness during a surgery in hospital. That nothing in unconsciousness really makes no sense, even a life of an ant makes infinitually bigger sense than that nothing.
Being unconscious and being dead are two different things, I understand one can lead to the other. The human brain is a vey complex thing, and I won't pretend to fully understand it. Dreams are something I don't understand either. Actual time of death is debatable too, as people can and have been ressurected after being technically dead for a few minutes.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -- Douglas Adams
Regarding the anti-theist option, to be anti-theist, you must also believe in God otherwise how can you be 'anti'? I bundled theist, deist, pantheist and anti-theist together in the first two options.
Well OK then if their is nothing either side of life, then what says that personal choice is not just as much an illusion as conciousness is.
I see my parents and my children as being either side of my life.
As for personal choice/free will being an illusion, I don't know. AFAIK nobody knows.
It is not the end, just the end for the dead person. Thier legacy lives on. My life makes perfect sense to me.
Remember though, your own legacy, and that of your children and all who follow them, will all be wiped-out eventually. Whether one of them does something to change the world or not - this universe isn't going to last forever. That to me, even with all the Gods in my life, is a pretty scary concept. My mind will remember them after death, but what about all the physical achievements? *Gulp.*
It is not the end, just the end for the dead person. Thier legacy lives on. My life makes perfect sense to me..
Tat I am talking about, It's the end for you that negated all your life, it negated for you that you were ever existed, your legacy at that nothing for you never existed, nobody can tell you you were ever born, because it was negated for you and you were not ever born for yourself. All achievments during your life make no sense for you at that time, for you there doesn't exist any time anymore. So to say "Thier legacy lives on. My life makes perfect sense to me" makes no sense, only if you don't believe it's really your end. There is something in subconsciousness in alive being, that it is eternal, and if somebody says "My life makes perfect sense to me and after death there will be nothing for me" he just doesn't know what he is talking about, he never experienced that nothing that makes no sense and is looking for it.
Being unconscious and being dead are two different things, I understand one can lead to the other. The human brain is a vey complex thing, and I won't pretend to fully understand it. Dreams are something I don't understand either. Actual time of death is debatable too, as people can and have been ressurected after being technically dead for a few minutes.
Yes, unconsciousness and death are not the same, after I woke up, I felt that during that nothing something must count the time, because I could vaguely say how long took that nothing. But if the nothing during unconsciousnes makes no sense, then that absolute nothing after death makes absolute no sense.
It's the end for you that negated all your life, it negated for you that you were ever existed, your legacy at that nothing for you never existed, nobody can tell you you were ever born, because it was negated for you and you were not ever born for yourself. All achievments during your life make no sense for you at that time, for you there doesn't exist any time anymore.
No problem about that provided there is no "you" at the end of it all. Think about it.
To say "my legacy goes on" is nonsense at the moment it's negated his life. It could be said just during a life till it's not negated, because to say "my legacy goes on and there will be no me" , is same as to say "my legacy goes on and I will be somewhere else".
To say "my legacy goes on" makes sense only if there is me.
But if you believe that when you die, there will be nothing, then what moves you forward ?
I'm alive now, that is enough. I don't see why I need more than this to move forward. Especially I don't see the need to live in denial about what happens at the end.
Taking the long view, there is probably (pessimistically) 250 million years left of life on Earth, (optimistically) 750 million - life on earth, or at least complex life on earth as we know it, as it is is nearing the end, given that it started some 4 billion years ago. Although the sun won't go off main sequence and become a red giant for another 4-5 billion years, the luminosity of the sun increases about 10% every 1bn years, and the oceans will have all boiled away within 750M years (when the average surface temperature will be about 70 C).
That notwithstanding, we are alive now and ought to make the most of it. But there's no point in being in denial about the end.
The belief in an afterlife is really just a tool for organized religion in the main. I have no beef with someone who wants to believe in a god of some sort, yes, it's a bit irrational, but there's no crime in that, everyone can be a bit irrational. The problem with the afterlife is that religious leaders (who are often pretty nasty people) can use it to say "Do as I tell you to, enslave yourself to me, err, I mean our god, then you'll have a nice eternity, otherwise you will burn in hell". This threat (which is totally empty, given the lack of anything after you die) gets people to lead miserable existences or do really quite bad things like fly planes into buildings. The sooner people come out of denial and realise that this life is all you get the better off we'll be, perhaps we won't have quite so many people making life miserable for themselves and others in the mistaken thought that they are improving some kind of eternity for themselves.
Belief in an afterlife has often been an extremely destructive force. At best it's a timewaster. It often does not allow people to move forward, rather it makes people move backward.
I'm alive now, that is enough. I don't see why I need more than this to move forward. Especially I don't see the need to live in denial about what happens at the end.
Taking the long view, there is probably (pessimistically) 250 million years left of life on Earth, (optimistically) 750 million - life on earth, or at least complex life on earth as we know it, as it is is nearing the end, given that it started some 4 billion years ago. Although the sun won't go off main sequence and become a red giant for another 4-5 billion years, the luminosity of the sun increases about 10% every 1bn years, and the oceans will have all boiled away within 750M years (when the average surface temperature will be about 70 C).
That notwithstanding, we are alive now and ought to make the most of it. But there's no point in being in denial about the end.
The belief in an afterlife is really just a tool for organized religion in the main. I have no beef with someone who wants to believe in a god of some sort, yes, it's a bit irrational, but there's no crime in that, everyone can be a bit irrational. The problem with the afterlife is that religious leaders (who are often pretty nasty people) can use it to say "Do as I tell you to, enslave yourself to me, err, I mean our god, then you'll have a nice eternity, otherwise you will burn in hell". This threat (which is totally empty, given the lack of anything after you die) gets people to lead miserable existences or do really quite bad things like fly planes into buildings. The sooner people come out of denial and realise that this life is all you get the better off we'll be, perhaps we won't have quite so many people making life miserable for themselves and others in the mistaken thought that they are improving some kind of eternity for themselves.
Belief in an afterlife has often been an extremely destructive force. At best it's a timewaster. It often does not allow people to move forward, rather it makes people move backward.
That's all very nice and everything, but let's face it, the interests and tastes of people with this kind of view are all so woefully predictable: computers, technology in general, cars, video games, science fiction, wargaming etc etc. Basically, these are people with a pretty unsophisticated world view that is totally impersonal, and seems to tell us less about their degree of intelligence than their degree of autism.
Basically, these are people with a pretty unsophisticated world view that is totally impersonal, and seems to tell us less about their degree of intelligence than their degree of autism.
I don't think that belief in an afterlife or a god gives people a sophisticated world view, rather, often the opposite: for example take the black-and-white views of the religious right in [insert country here]. Speaking for myself, I don't have an impersonal world view, rather the opposite. You don't have to live in denial about death or believe in a god to, well, be sociable or like people, or care for the well-being of others.
Incidentally, I'm not autistic, nor do I have Asperger's syndrome (a self-diagnosis that's "trendy" amongst IT types) although I will admit to a bit of shyness and being dreadful at small talk. But being dreadful at small talk isn't that uncommon amongst the male of the species, in my experience...
Incidentally, I'm not autistic, nor do I have Asperger's syndrome (a self-diagnosis that's "trendy" amongst IT types) although I will admit to a bit of shyness and being dreadful at small talk.
That's all very nice and everything, but let's face it, the interests and tastes of people with this kind of view are all so woefully predictable: computers, technology in general, cars, video games, science fiction, wargaming etc etc. Basically, these are people with a pretty unsophisticated world view that is totally impersonal, and seems to tell us less about their degree of intelligence than their degree of autism.
I think that's a generalisation and also the start of a slippery slope in the thread. There are plenty of those with a rational world view that have a perfectly good family life and a good work/life balance. Thinking rationally about the world does not have to equal having no passion and feeling no love.
I know that love is a chemical mechanism, a configuration of matter within my brain, but I don't care. I love love. I love being in love. But I can also think about it logically.
Without apology I love Titanic, Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, Star Wars, 50s romance movies, musicals, Terminator, Shawshank Redemption, Rear Window, Vertigo, The Dark Knight, Mr Smith Goes to Washington, Back to the Future, The Way We Were ...
In short, I enjoy feeling emotion because it is standard issue on all humans so I might as well use my emotions. That in no way stops me from the believing that my own life will end with me nor ultimately being aware that we sit on top of a ecosystem of pain, tortuture and suffering. In fact in just re-enforces the preciousness of this time, this place, this life and the momentory pleasures from treating myself and others with kindness and respect.
Comments
i think we have all been given the chance to come down to earth and experience this thing called life, and when we die we go back to that floaty excistence. i refuse to believe we just stop existing.
Actually I do, I just enjoy using the term theory to wind up those people who are bothered about people who use it "incorrectly". :)
Yeah, I heard this one many times, and I'm not ruling it out as a distinct though very saddening possibility. "How you felt two years before our were born" you see this is what makes be believe there is something else. Maybe our conciousness lives in another dimension and sees this one via the mind.
I think in reality the power of denial is so strong we make these things up to avoid having to accept what really happens.
When I die, I die, my conciousness dies, and my body and brain will decay.
I am already experiencing an afterlife, as my genetics live on in my 4 children.
Enjoy your life, don't waste it. It is all you will get.
I agree wholeheartedly !
Enemies of Reason is on next week.
Pyskool - a remake of Skool Daze and Back to Skool
I believe the force constitutes a 'higher power' hence you should select one of the first two options.
Regarding the anti-theist option, to be anti-theist, you must also believe in God otherwise how can you be 'anti'? I bundled theist, deist, pantheist and anti-theist together in the first two options.
To me, this thread was more about natural versus supernatural rather than discussing or criticising particular beliefs (hence excluding partcular religion names from the poll).
Enjoying life is something that everyone can agree on. :)
I am mainly motivated by the lives of my children, they are, after all part of me. So in a word, like pretty much all things that are alive, 'Reproduction'.
Also I don't want to die, not yet anyway, and as this is the only life I have, I want to make the most of it.
It is not the end, just the end for the dead person. Thier legacy lives on. My life makes perfect sense to me.
Being unconscious and being dead are two different things, I understand one can lead to the other. The human brain is a vey complex thing, and I won't pretend to fully understand it. Dreams are something I don't understand either. Actual time of death is debatable too, as people can and have been ressurected after being technically dead for a few minutes.
I disagree.
An antitheist is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "One opposed to belief in the existence of a god."
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showpost.php?p=132434&postcount=1
I stand corrected.
I see my parents and my children as being either side of my life.
As for personal choice/free will being an illusion, I don't know. AFAIK nobody knows.
Remember though, your own legacy, and that of your children and all who follow them, will all be wiped-out eventually. Whether one of them does something to change the world or not - this universe isn't going to last forever. That to me, even with all the Gods in my life, is a pretty scary concept. My mind will remember them after death, but what about all the physical achievements? *Gulp.*
Tat I am talking about, It's the end for you that negated all your life, it negated for you that you were ever existed, your legacy at that nothing for you never existed, nobody can tell you you were ever born, because it was negated for you and you were not ever born for yourself. All achievments during your life make no sense for you at that time, for you there doesn't exist any time anymore. So to say "Thier legacy lives on. My life makes perfect sense to me" makes no sense, only if you don't believe it's really your end. There is something in subconsciousness in alive being, that it is eternal, and if somebody says "My life makes perfect sense to me and after death there will be nothing for me" he just doesn't know what he is talking about, he never experienced that nothing that makes no sense and is looking for it.
Yes, unconsciousness and death are not the same, after I woke up, I felt that during that nothing something must count the time, because I could vaguely say how long took that nothing. But if the nothing during unconsciousnes makes no sense, then that absolute nothing after death makes absolute no sense.
No problem about that provided there is no "you" at the end of it all. Think about it.
To say "my legacy goes on" makes sense only if there is me.
I'm alive now, that is enough. I don't see why I need more than this to move forward. Especially I don't see the need to live in denial about what happens at the end.
Taking the long view, there is probably (pessimistically) 250 million years left of life on Earth, (optimistically) 750 million - life on earth, or at least complex life on earth as we know it, as it is is nearing the end, given that it started some 4 billion years ago. Although the sun won't go off main sequence and become a red giant for another 4-5 billion years, the luminosity of the sun increases about 10% every 1bn years, and the oceans will have all boiled away within 750M years (when the average surface temperature will be about 70 C).
That notwithstanding, we are alive now and ought to make the most of it. But there's no point in being in denial about the end.
The belief in an afterlife is really just a tool for organized religion in the main. I have no beef with someone who wants to believe in a god of some sort, yes, it's a bit irrational, but there's no crime in that, everyone can be a bit irrational. The problem with the afterlife is that religious leaders (who are often pretty nasty people) can use it to say "Do as I tell you to, enslave yourself to me, err, I mean our god, then you'll have a nice eternity, otherwise you will burn in hell". This threat (which is totally empty, given the lack of anything after you die) gets people to lead miserable existences or do really quite bad things like fly planes into buildings. The sooner people come out of denial and realise that this life is all you get the better off we'll be, perhaps we won't have quite so many people making life miserable for themselves and others in the mistaken thought that they are improving some kind of eternity for themselves.
Belief in an afterlife has often been an extremely destructive force. At best it's a timewaster. It often does not allow people to move forward, rather it makes people move backward.
That's all very nice and everything, but let's face it, the interests and tastes of people with this kind of view are all so woefully predictable: computers, technology in general, cars, video games, science fiction, wargaming etc etc. Basically, these are people with a pretty unsophisticated world view that is totally impersonal, and seems to tell us less about their degree of intelligence than their degree of autism.
https://discordapp.com/invite/cZt59EQ
I don't think that belief in an afterlife or a god gives people a sophisticated world view, rather, often the opposite: for example take the black-and-white views of the religious right in [insert country here]. Speaking for myself, I don't have an impersonal world view, rather the opposite. You don't have to live in denial about death or believe in a god to, well, be sociable or like people, or care for the well-being of others.
Incidentally, I'm not autistic, nor do I have Asperger's syndrome (a self-diagnosis that's "trendy" amongst IT types) although I will admit to a bit of shyness and being dreadful at small talk. But being dreadful at small talk isn't that uncommon amongst the male of the species, in my experience...
your going bald too. :razz:
Well at least I don't have a funny shaped head!
I think that's a generalisation and also the start of a slippery slope in the thread. There are plenty of those with a rational world view that have a perfectly good family life and a good work/life balance. Thinking rationally about the world does not have to equal having no passion and feeling no love.
I know that love is a chemical mechanism, a configuration of matter within my brain, but I don't care. I love love. I love being in love. But I can also think about it logically.
Without apology I love Titanic, Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, Star Wars, 50s romance movies, musicals, Terminator, Shawshank Redemption, Rear Window, Vertigo, The Dark Knight, Mr Smith Goes to Washington, Back to the Future, The Way We Were ...
In short, I enjoy feeling emotion because it is standard issue on all humans so I might as well use my emotions. That in no way stops me from the believing that my own life will end with me nor ultimately being aware that we sit on top of a ecosystem of pain, tortuture and suffering. In fact in just re-enforces the preciousness of this time, this place, this life and the momentory pleasures from treating myself and others with kindness and respect.
touche. :razz: