1, Working on it but some of the widgits are proving bothersome
2, Nope, full foreskin here.
The whole foreskin-issue was resolved a few years after Jesus' death, so no worries there ... oh, let me know when you get the time machine up and running, I have a few choice words for Sibelius and one of his musical pieces.
So before Jesus came along then no one could talk to God?
If you want to see if the pope believes in God, as he claims, then just look at him in the pope-mobile. According to his "beliefs" he doesn't need the protection of man or man's material devices, as God will protect him. And if God does allow the pope to come to harm then it would be God's own will, and the pope would "willingly" accept that.
Erm, so why the bullet proof glass, the bodyguards, the security barricades, etc?
Could it be because the pope doesn't believe in the Great Sky Fairy any more than I do, the only difference being that he believes it's right to harvest money and power by pretending to believe in superstition, whereas I don't?
Not quite. The Bible tells that before Jesus came along, only Jews were God's people. They were able to "talk with" God via sacrifices (various burnt offerings), prophets, kings, judges and high priests.
Jesus "came along" to provide a final, lasting sacrifice for everyone, i.e. not just the Hebrew nation who had at that time lost God's favour.
Right, so before Jesus any non-Jews couldn't talk to God? More proof of how fair God is, and how he loves all of his children,
Jesus was held in high regard in ancient Britain, but no-one believed in the trinity or that he was a messiah or God's intermediary. In fact, Jesus never taught those things. Jesus said God was everywhere, in everything, never worship idols, don't follow leaders, etc. Jesus was anti religion. God couldn't be understood by any human because God wasn't material. But humans had God inside them. The spirit in everyman and living thing had to be nurtured. It was upto humans to be AS God and be creative, plant seeds, grow crops etc. Just like the allmighty Creator.
Its just an ancient aether theory. Supposedly Nikola Tesla read the Kolbrin and Culdian texts as a child. His father was a minister and from accounts in Tesla's biography, he had a very large library which the young Tesla read from.
You can read 200 pages of it online for free here. (Tip:- If you can print to pdf, print the whole lot out to a pdf to read offline) http://www.thekolbrin.com/
I love this book, haven't finished reading it all yet, only had it a couple of days.
Akhenaten the Egyptian Pharoe was the first person to champion the one god scenario..the high priests didn't like that, so his people were exiled. Some say they settled around modern Israel where they became infused with the decendants of Sumeria, some say they became the Hebrews. If that sounds amazing, then remember Genesis, Exodus ETC, very closely resemble Sumerian myths..ie the epic Gilgamesh is very similar to Genesis...
The point is, the one god scenario goes back a lot further than the christian beginings and Jesus.
not everyone is God's child. (atheists? Satanists?)
Right, so if we use our (God given, according to you) brains and judge by the obvious facts, and become atheists then we stop being God's children?
That's nonsense. Surely God, who is all (ALL, according to his followers) forgiving would forgive his children for having doubts about him? After all, since he allows his children (even loyal believers who don't doubt Him at all) to be raped, murders, to starve to death, to suffer hideous diseases, etc, then he can't be surprised if some of them think "Hang on a minute, if God is so good and kind, then why does he allow wars, evil, suffering, etc?". he gave us the ability to reason, and he filled the world with evidence that if he does exist then he just doesn't care about us, and so he surely can't be surprised or upset when some of us judge by the facts.
Where was this all powerful, all good God when the Nazi death camps were around? Where was he when on 9/11? Where was he when Jamie Bulger (or any of the other countless children throughout history) was tortured and murdered? And if he exists, and he want us to believe in him, then why doesn't he come down and tell us so? Or make us with belief already in place? If I made a computer program that only worked out the first thirty prime numbers, then I couldn't in all fairness blame the program for not showing the thirty-first prime, or the million and thirty-first prime, could I?
If God does exist, then why, as appears to be the case, does he take no care or concern over his children? He made us all, and he has a responsibility to us. But no, he either doesn't care or he doesn't exist. It's impossible to say which. That's the way it seems to me.
If you have evidence to the contrary, then please give it here, and I'll change my views if it seems valid to do so. But based on the evidence of this world and the huge sufferings it contains, I can only conclude that either there is no God, or he just doesn't care. Either way, it seems like there is no compassionate, caring God. You might disagree, but then you're closing your eyes to the facts.
Right, so if we use our (God given, according to you) brains and judge by the obvious facts, and become atheists then we stop being God's children?
[...]
You might disagree, but then you're closing your eyes to the facts.
If you truly are interested then go read the Bible. The answers you are seeking Are In There.
If God does exist, then why, as appears to be the case, does he take no care or concern over his children? He made us all, and he has a responsibility to us. But no, he either doesn't care or he doesn't exist. It's impossible to say which. That's the way it seems to me.
Maybe he's lost interest in humans and since he's retired become an avid gardener, spending all his time making sure the plants grow and the fruit ripens
sure, did popes believe in God prior to the pope mobile being built?
Yes, and they had bodyguards back then, when surely the protection of an infallible, all powerful God would have been enough?
Anyway, you're dodging the point. Do you agree that:
1) God is all powerful, and no attack of any sort could succeed against the pope unless God allowed it?
2) If the pope was killed or injured by an attack it would be God's will?
If you say yes to both of these, then you'd have to agree logically that all protection for the pope is unnecessary. So it's existence proves that the pope does not believe in the lies he peddles.
does God claim he will always protect the pope?
Dunno, but if he can't be bothered to protect his "earthly representative", then he (God) can't be too bothered about the Pope at all can he? So if he isn't, then why should we be bothered?
Jesus wasn't always protected, he was crucified.
Yes, but (a) Jesus had to die to erase our sins, whereas the Pope does not need to die, and (b) Jesus said to Paul (or was it Peter?) "If I wanted to, I could ask my father to help me, and he'd send down an army of angels to save me" (words to that effect), so Jesus had a choice, so it's not the same thing at all.
Wasn't that precisely because it was god's will? If it were god's will that the pope should die, armour wouldn't save him anyway; and if it weren't, the armour wouldn't be necessary.
In other words, you haven't answered the question at all. (Typical christian apologist)
Jesus is just a dead man, so how could he be a conduit to God ?
So why did the Sanhedrein take an ordinary man and prime him in the prophesy, ride him into Jeruselem on an ass ( because that is what the prophesy foretold ) then allow the crucifixion story etc to unfold. Because the foretold Messiah forgot to make an appearance, that is why he knew beforehand what was about to unfold, because he had been schooled in the teachings. Then there was the whole planted story of the man who offered to carry the cross for Jesus, hinting that there had been a substitution at the last minitue. Cut to the fact that the crucifixion was held in the private grounds of Joseph of Aramathea, effectivly keeping the masses at a long distance from it. Then the fact that it was Joseph's private tomb that was used to put the " body " of Jesus in, when the word he used to ask for the dead body, actually can only be refered to an actual living body. Well you don't have to be a genius to realise that an actual passion play was taking place.
The whole story was in place from many times in the past for them to to follow, but they had no icon to put into the public domain. From my readings, John the Baptist sould have been the true Messiah, why did Salome ask for his head on a platter, even though they had already killed him, because he was the truly chosen one. The whole platter/halo symbology does not go unnoticed. She was a follower of his and wanted the RELIC, not for them to take a life that was already gone.
That is where the whole Knights Templar stories start to make sense.
Roman Catholicism is Based on St Pauls rendition on the whole story, but the Romans threatened to kill him unless he could explain himself properly, he told them what they wanted to hear, so he lived, and the ROMAN Catholic religion started, based on a lie.
The Pope became the Papa ( Father ) Jesus the son, and the holy ghost ( well we don't believe in ghosts do we ? Perhaps it is all to do with the real Trinity in the first place, and the rest is just, a story.
Every time I read that the oldest person in the world has died, I have to do a quick check to see it isn't ME..........
Actually I have to disagree on all of these points.
Akenhaten, thought of God as the Aten/Aton, hence the term Atonement ( at-one -ment ) He acknowledged God as the Sun, Solar worship has, and still is a big thing for many enlightened souls.
The Epic of Gilgamesh and it's many varients, for example the Enuma Elish, tell of a world destroyed by a cosmic event and an ensuing flood, where the world was forced to start again from scratch, with the remaining humans repopulating the Earth. The book of laws was put in place to offer a guidence to the survivors not to make the same mistakes again.
Is not the basic Bible story the same ? Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the book of Revelations, the Garden of Eden, the cradle of life.
Have YOU actually read it ? Or even the Bible ?
Is it really irrelevent just because you say so ?
I think not !
Every time I read that the oldest person in the world has died, I have to do a quick check to see it isn't ME..........
Comments
Apparently I talk to god every time I cook my tea....
Well, only if you 1)Have a time machine to go back to that time when things were that way 2) are Jewish
:razz:
Hehehe ;-P
1, Working on it but some of the widgits are proving bothersome
2, Nope, full foreskin here.
why then, do you want to know if Jesus is God if you dont believe in God...?
The whole foreskin-issue was resolved a few years after Jesus' death, so no worries there ... oh, let me know when you get the time machine up and running, I have a few choice words for Sibelius and one of his musical pieces.
do you know what a strawman is?
Guesser didn't really imply that he doesn't believe in God.
All he implied is that there are people around who do not believe.
Right, so before Jesus any non-Jews couldn't talk to God? More proof of how fair God is, and how he loves all of his children,
No, but according to Wikipedia it's:
"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position"
so please tell me where I'm misrepresenting anything?
Well, not quite.
The Hebrew nation were the only ones who wanted to adhere to God's standards.
And any non-Jew could become an adherent of God's through adoption into a Hebrew family, mainly as workers and through other means.
If I were to say "wasn't Snape a Death Eater?" would you ask why I would ask that if I don't believe in wizards?
Its just an ancient aether theory. Supposedly Nikola Tesla read the Kolbrin and Culdian texts as a child. His father was a minister and from accounts in Tesla's biography, he had a very large library which the young Tesla read from.
You can read 200 pages of it online for free here. (Tip:- If you can print to pdf, print the whole lot out to a pdf to read offline)
http://www.thekolbrin.com/
I love this book, haven't finished reading it all yet, only had it a couple of days.
My ZX Art Music Page
Carlos Michelis Theme
The point is, the one god scenario goes back a lot further than the christian beginings and Jesus.
Anyhoo, just thought I would add something.
sure, did popes believe in God prior to the pope mobile being built?
does God claim he will always protect the pope? Jesus wasn't always protected, he was crucified.
Right, so if we use our (God given, according to you) brains and judge by the obvious facts, and become atheists then we stop being God's children?
That's nonsense. Surely God, who is all (ALL, according to his followers) forgiving would forgive his children for having doubts about him? After all, since he allows his children (even loyal believers who don't doubt Him at all) to be raped, murders, to starve to death, to suffer hideous diseases, etc, then he can't be surprised if some of them think "Hang on a minute, if God is so good and kind, then why does he allow wars, evil, suffering, etc?". he gave us the ability to reason, and he filled the world with evidence that if he does exist then he just doesn't care about us, and so he surely can't be surprised or upset when some of us judge by the facts.
Where was this all powerful, all good God when the Nazi death camps were around? Where was he when on 9/11? Where was he when Jamie Bulger (or any of the other countless children throughout history) was tortured and murdered? And if he exists, and he want us to believe in him, then why doesn't he come down and tell us so? Or make us with belief already in place? If I made a computer program that only worked out the first thirty prime numbers, then I couldn't in all fairness blame the program for not showing the thirty-first prime, or the million and thirty-first prime, could I?
If God does exist, then why, as appears to be the case, does he take no care or concern over his children? He made us all, and he has a responsibility to us. But no, he either doesn't care or he doesn't exist. It's impossible to say which. That's the way it seems to me.
If you have evidence to the contrary, then please give it here, and I'll change my views if it seems valid to do so. But based on the evidence of this world and the huge sufferings it contains, I can only conclude that either there is no God, or he just doesn't care. Either way, it seems like there is no compassionate, caring God. You might disagree, but then you're closing your eyes to the facts.
almost looks like some people aren't trying! ;)
;)
Or he might smite them like he used to in the good old days before he had a kid and mellowed :-)
If you truly are interested then go read the Bible. The answers you are seeking Are In There.
:-P
Well, according to the Bible, God will be doing this At A Later Date.
sure, as himself
woo, who says this? really. and have you read this? Irrelevant,actually.
Maybe he's lost interest in humans and since he's retired become an avid gardener, spending all his time making sure the plants grow and the fruit ripens
Yes, and they had bodyguards back then, when surely the protection of an infallible, all powerful God would have been enough?
Anyway, you're dodging the point. Do you agree that:
1) God is all powerful, and no attack of any sort could succeed against the pope unless God allowed it?
2) If the pope was killed or injured by an attack it would be God's will?
If you say yes to both of these, then you'd have to agree logically that all protection for the pope is unnecessary. So it's existence proves that the pope does not believe in the lies he peddles.
Dunno, but if he can't be bothered to protect his "earthly representative", then he (God) can't be too bothered about the Pope at all can he? So if he isn't, then why should we be bothered?
Yes, but (a) Jesus had to die to erase our sins, whereas the Pope does not need to die, and (b) Jesus said to Paul (or was it Peter?) "If I wanted to, I could ask my father to help me, and he'd send down an army of angels to save me" (words to that effect), so Jesus had a choice, so it's not the same thing at all.
Oh yes. And then they are contradicted on the next page...
The fact that God's word can have contradictions is yet more proof that it's all cobblers.
Wasn't that precisely because it was god's will? If it were god's will that the pope should die, armour wouldn't save him anyway; and if it weren't, the armour wouldn't be necessary.
In other words, you haven't answered the question at all. (Typical christian apologist)
Yes. I have.
Jesus is just a dead man, so how could he be a conduit to God ?
So why did the Sanhedrein take an ordinary man and prime him in the prophesy, ride him into Jeruselem on an ass ( because that is what the prophesy foretold ) then allow the crucifixion story etc to unfold. Because the foretold Messiah forgot to make an appearance, that is why he knew beforehand what was about to unfold, because he had been schooled in the teachings. Then there was the whole planted story of the man who offered to carry the cross for Jesus, hinting that there had been a substitution at the last minitue. Cut to the fact that the crucifixion was held in the private grounds of Joseph of Aramathea, effectivly keeping the masses at a long distance from it. Then the fact that it was Joseph's private tomb that was used to put the " body " of Jesus in, when the word he used to ask for the dead body, actually can only be refered to an actual living body. Well you don't have to be a genius to realise that an actual passion play was taking place.
The whole story was in place from many times in the past for them to to follow, but they had no icon to put into the public domain. From my readings, John the Baptist sould have been the true Messiah, why did Salome ask for his head on a platter, even though they had already killed him, because he was the truly chosen one. The whole platter/halo symbology does not go unnoticed. She was a follower of his and wanted the RELIC, not for them to take a life that was already gone.
That is where the whole Knights Templar stories start to make sense.
Roman Catholicism is Based on St Pauls rendition on the whole story, but the Romans threatened to kill him unless he could explain himself properly, he told them what they wanted to hear, so he lived, and the ROMAN Catholic religion started, based on a lie.
The Pope became the Papa ( Father ) Jesus the son, and the holy ghost ( well we don't believe in ghosts do we ? Perhaps it is all to do with the real Trinity in the first place, and the rest is just, a story.
Actually I have to disagree on all of these points.
Akenhaten, thought of God as the Aten/Aton, hence the term Atonement ( at-one -ment ) He acknowledged God as the Sun, Solar worship has, and still is a big thing for many enlightened souls.
The Epic of Gilgamesh and it's many varients, for example the Enuma Elish, tell of a world destroyed by a cosmic event and an ensuing flood, where the world was forced to start again from scratch, with the remaining humans repopulating the Earth. The book of laws was put in place to offer a guidence to the survivors not to make the same mistakes again.
Is not the basic Bible story the same ? Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the book of Revelations, the Garden of Eden, the cradle of life.
Have YOU actually read it ? Or even the Bible ?
Is it really irrelevent just because you say so ?
I think not !