No, I'm not going to join in with the "let's sweep this under the carpet and carry on as normal" routine. Not until you put right what you screwed up here, and work out some moderation policies that are more acceptable than "ban anyone you don't like".
Because up until now, you haven't been banning people for arguing with you.
Enough to justify excluding a valued member of this community for ever? Hell, no.
I don't disagree that moderation is a thankless task, but that doesn't mean that we should cut you any slack for making senseless, destructive decisions. You make out that you're in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation: bullshit. Are you seriously suggesting that banning ewgf was the only option that would prevent the forums descending into anarchy? Over an argument that was only between him and you?
Reverse ewgf's ban and get some proper, accountable policies in this place, or I'm leaving too.
This don't sit well with me either. Can anyone honestly say he deserved to be banned? Granted I don't know all the facts but it does seem to be a case of how dare you question my authority, get outta my pub!
No, I'm not going to join in with the "let's sweep this under the carpet and carry on as normal" routine. Not until you put right what you screwed up here, and work out some moderation policies that are more acceptable than "ban anyone you don't like".
Because up until now, you haven't been banning people for arguing with you.
Enough to justify excluding a valued member of this community for ever? Hell, no.
I don't disagree that moderation is a thankless task, but that doesn't mean that we should cut you any slack for making senseless, destructive decisions. You make out that you're in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation: bullshit. Are you seriously suggesting that banning ewgf was the only option that would prevent the forums descending into anarchy? Over an argument that was only between him and you?
Reverse ewgf's ban and get some proper, accountable policies in this place, or I'm leaving too.
it does seem to be a case of how dare you question my authority, get outta my pub!
To be fair he had puked up in the gents loo, was trying to grab the landlady's chest, had 7 triple vodkas and could hardly stand but worst of all he put 5 quid in the jukebox and put the latest Westlife album on repeat.
The way I see things, it's a continual decline of the community for excellent reasons.
The machine you all adore is getting on now. 25+ years on, and ever year there are less and less enthusiasts below 30 years old. We'll keep getting one or two each year that find the speccy, but there will be less of them as the youths gradually were born to machines capable of so much more.
So each year new vitality is hemorrhaged from the forum at a pretty constant rate, and all that's left eventually are embittered 30-somethings (and 40-somethings too) that have no real drive left but wish fervently that things were back the way they were.
Look at it - no significant emulator development, just constant re-hashes of what's been done before. Nothing new. More videos of people saying how great the speccy was and what an enormous plethora of new games there was in such-and-such a year... And there's less games coming out from recognised authors each year. How many "must have" games have come out this year compared to 10 years ago? And how many new ideas for games that haven't been done before? Not many, if any this year.
All this is because the people in the scene are losing their youthful vitality, and like the old people I spend most of my life looking after, they prefer instead to bicker and argue and flounce out (well, as far as you can with a zimmer) and generally concentrate less and less on the thing that brought us all together.
Look at the post counts in the various forums. Chit-Chat has more posts than any of the speccy forums, contains absolutely no speccy content, there's very very little worthwhile reading in there at all... And it's been around for a significantly smaller time than any of the other forums! Does that not speak volumes? The problem is not just a few of "them" - whether it's the mods, or NickH's paranoid conspiracy theories about IRC channels - the problem is YOU - you lot are killing the speccy scene slowly but surely, with your inane drivel instead of enthusiastic content.
And none of you can help it - even those that did contribute to the scene at one point are no longer doing so, and it won't be long before the current contributors stop too. It's all coming to and end and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
The way I see things, it's a continual decline of the community for excellent reasons.
The machine you all adore is getting on now. 25+ years on, and ever year there are less and less enthusiasts below 30 years old. We'll keep getting one or two each year that find the speccy, but there will be less of them as the youths gradually were born to machines capable of so much more.
So each year new vitality is hemorrhaged from the forum at a pretty constant rate, and all that's left eventually are embittered 30-somethings (and 40-somethings too) that have no real drive left but wish fervently that things were back the way they were.
Look at it - no significant emulator development, just constant re-hashes of what's been done before. Nothing new. More videos of people saying how great the speccy was and what an enormous plethora of new games there was in such-and-such a year... And there's less games coming out from recognised authors each year. How many "must have" games have come out this year compared to 10 years ago? And how many new ideas for games that haven't been done before? Not many, if any this year.
All this is because the people in the scene are losing their youthful vitality, and like the old people I spend most of my life looking after, they prefer instead to bicker and argue and flounce out (well, as far as you can with a zimmer) and generally concentrate less and less on the thing that brought us all together.
Look at the post counts in the various forums. Chit-Chat has more posts than any of the speccy forums, contains absolutely no speccy content, there's very very little worthwhile reading in there at all... And it's been around for a significantly smaller time than any of the other forums! Does that not speak volumes? The problem is not just a few of "them" - whether it's the mods, or NickH's paranoid conspiracy theories about IRC channels - the problem is YOU - you lot are killing the speccy scene slowly but surely, with your inane drivel instead of enthusiastic content.
And none of you can help it - even those that did contribute to the scene at one point are no longer doing so, and it won't be long before the current contributors stop too. It's all coming to and end and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
No, I'm not going to join in with the "let's sweep this under the carpet and carry on as normal" routine. Not until you put right what you screwed up here, and work out some moderation policies that are more acceptable than "ban anyone you don't like".
Spot on. I'm sick of hearing second-hand that people have been banned when there has been no public warning of their behaviour and no reason given out by the moderator who did it.
How are the rest of the users supposed to know how to proceed if people appear to be banned at random? There are great long lists of insulting posts that no-one cares about. I see moderators remarking that people complain about them on the boards but don't report them to the moderators, and that's utter rot. If you actually read them you realise that the issue isn't about the insults - it's about how some people are randomly selected as 'having gone too far' when others, equally randomly, get off scott-free.
As for a ban simply for challenging a moderator's actions (as appears to be the case here, though again this is second-hand information), that's no way for a site to be run. Nor is a moderator having a go at people then locking a thread to prevent any replies, just before we see that little gem happen again.
The way I see things, it's a continual decline of the community for excellent reasons.
...
Look at the post counts in the various forums. Chit-Chat has more posts than any of the speccy forums, contains absolutely no speccy content, there's very very little worthwhile reading in there at all
...
D.
I mostly keep out of he Chit Chat section as I think hardware and software are the most interesting parts of the forums. I love what DivIDE can do, your very own SpecOS is amazing and what we need more of. I am playing with ZXC3 at the moment and just got some bug fixes turned around by Paul Farrow which is excellent news. And of course Chris Smith's ULA book this year has been fantastic - I've learned so much from which about the one chip which held the most mysteries.
I think there is a lot of same old, same old going on but the above examples (ULA book, SpecOS, ZXC3, DivIDE, Spectranet, ...) I still are fresh and new and are what I come here for, (not the chit chat).
Dont think its all doom and gloom but some good points above.
2010 is the best year for Speccy homebrew games for years, a lot of very good releases. Before it was just Jonathan Cauldwell, then Bobs, now theres a lot of great games coming from other people specially the Mojon Twins, Ubhres, Binman/Codename v etc. WAYYYY more games than before and more people creating them. I love homebrew games and thankfully theres many of them and some excellent titles this year.
Theres a monthly retro mag which is in its 80th-ish issue, very impressive. Its great they cover homebrew as well, i'm sure the authors love to see their games in it and gives them a bit more of an incentive. We've just had the biggest retro show in quite a few years which had a very large turnout.
Yeah i wish there was more chat in the Games section which is one of my favourite parts of the forum. Yes theres a lot of chit chat, theres also some good socialising going on at the various retro shows (more would be merrier) and a lot of that is due to the 'friendships' which were based here.
We all love the Speccy, hopefully things can turn around
Also agree with the post below, i dont like the emulator section so i keep out of that. On most forums the chit chat section is the most popular, acts as the 'glue' in keeping a forum active. But do wish there were more game threads. I'm thankful for emulators as thats what got me back into the Speccy, but i'm happy with an old emulator, just plays the games i want and does everything i need.
Loved Speccy games back in the 80's and still play them in the 00's, just good to talk to fellow users
End of the day you shouldnt really need mods, we're all adults ,30/40 somethings as pointed out. I'm sure none of us bicker like this when we're down the pub so why is it constant he said/she said stuff ? But seriously we just need to be more sensible. Only say stuff you would say to a person in real life and not hiding behind a computer screen. We will have some disagreements but theyre nothing major, dont take them so personal.
Look at the post counts in the various forums. Chit-Chat has more posts than any of the speccy forums, contains absolutely no speccy content, there's very very little worthwhile reading in there at all... And it's been around for a significantly smaller time than any of the other forums! Does that not speak volumes? The problem is not just a few of "them" - whether it's the mods, or NickH's paranoid conspiracy theories about IRC channels - the problem is YOU - you lot are killing the speccy scene slowly but surely, with your inane drivel instead of enthusiastic content.
D.
Totally disagree...if it wasn't for chit chat, this place would have gotten very lonely a long time ago.....the whole point in Chit Chat is exactly that...chat! It's what keeps me coming back, as I like to chat with people who have similar interests and who are of a similar age. If I hadn't kept coming here for "inane drivel", I would never have noticed all the wonderful stuff happening with all the new games being released,etc...And I'm sure it's the same for a lot of others...
If you don't like Chit Chat and think it's filled with nonsense, don't go near the bloody place! There are plenty of other forums on WOS to talk about speccy stuff, and I don't see what the problem is with this one? If anybody is killing the scene, it's moaners moaning how chit chat shouldn't exist and that the only thing people should be talking about is how to link 16 speccies together to try and play chess (which, would actually be pretty cool, but alienate about 85% of the community if the tech stuff was all that was talked about)....
And chit chat has contained plenty of references to Speccy stuff, but that argument isn't valid anyway as it is basically supposed to be the Off Topic part of WOS...
..and as for not being enthusiastic, most of the people on Chit Chat are the ones who welcome new games and things with the most enthusiasm, so again it's what you say that is nonsense....
As for being banned, I, or at least the band that I was in, was banned (as well as being a band) from a local Cheshire pub because we were too loud. So, the pub booked a rock banned and then proceeded to ban the band for being a rock band.
I mostly keep out of he Chit Chat section as I think hardware and software are the most interesting parts of the forums. I love what DivIDE can do, your very own SpecOS is amazing and what we need more of. I am playing with ZXC3 at the moment and just got some bug fixes turned around by Paul Farrow which is excellent news. And of course Chris Smith's ULA book this year has been fantastic - I've learned so much from which about the one chip which held the most mysteries.
I think there is a lot of same old, same old going on but the above examples (ULA book, SpecOS, ZXC3, DivIDE, Spectranet, ...) I still are fresh and new and are what I come here for, (not the chit chat).
Agreed - a thoughtful reply there. The "scene" seems very much alive and fresh - looking beyond WOS and CSS will garner results.
With regard the whole ewgf 'thing', I always found the guy as dangerous and offensive as a large piece of fluff in the corner of my living room, but maybe I missed an abusive post.
Why not make it simpler and just say that if someone makes a personal attack on another member, they get warned, and if they do it a second time, they get banned. If they attack someone using a metaphor relating to male/female genitalia, they get banned. And if someone feels they are on the receiving end of this, they click the report button and let the mods deal with it. Now what's wrong with that?
...If they attack someone using a metaphor relating to male/female genitalia, they get banned. And if someone feels they are on the receiving end of this...
Totally disagree...if it wasn't for chit chat, this place would have gotten very lonely a long time ago.....the whole point in Chit Chat is exactly that...chat! It's what keeps me coming back, as I like to chat with people who have similar interests and who are of a similar age. If I hadn't kept coming here for "inane drivel", I would never have noticed all the wonderful stuff happening with all the new games being released,etc...And I'm sure it's the same for a lot of others...
If you don't like Chit Chat and think it's filled with nonsense, don't go near the bloody place! There are plenty of other forums on WOS to talk about speccy stuff, and I don't see what the problem is with this one? If anybody is killing the scene, it's moaners moaning how chit chat shouldn't exist and that the only thing people should be talking about is how to link 16 speccies together to try and play chess (which, would actually be pretty cool, but alienate about 85% of the community if the tech stuff was all that was talked about)....
And chit chat has contained plenty of references to Speccy stuff, but that argument isn't valid anyway as it is basically supposed to be the Off Topic part of WOS...
..and as for not being enthusiastic, most of the people on Chit Chat are the ones who welcome new games and things with the most enthusiasm, so again it's what you say that is nonsense....
Any forum - doesn't matter who's in it, the age range, subject or whatever (indeed, I'd say the younger the age range the faster it happens) - given sufficient time falls into quarreling and arguments. I think I wrote about this here earlier this year. Unfortunately, there is NOTHING you can do to stop it, indeed heavy handed moderation may just accelerate the decline. I saw it happen on FidoNet echoes. I saw it happen on Usenet. I saw it happen on a BBS that I ran. Now it's happening here.
The cycle goes like this. When the forum is new, everyone is jovial, no one has offended each other yet. But as time goes on and people learn each other's personalities and quirks, occasionally dislikes spawn, and you get the odd argument. Inevitably one turns nasty so fast no one can moderate it (and it's a lost cause if someone did catch it - because sooner rather than later it'll happen again and it's only a matter of time that it gets out of hand before anyone can moderate it), and then you get Grudges, Chips-On-Shoulders, Animosity and a whole range of other negative things between some participants.
As time continues the grudges just grow. In fact, moderation may make it worse; sometimes the flame wars can end in a kissing-and-making-up, but with the thread closed instead the participants continue to seethe, just waiting for the next excuse to have a kick-off. Then you get groups of people taking sides. And once you reach that point it's all downhill.
WOSF have actually managed to go on much longer than most without this happening. I think it took about 8 years for the rot to set in (normally, the rot sets in after 2 or 3 years, in my experience), so I'm not certain I agree with Dunny's thesis that it's grumpy old men, I find grumpy young men are a far bigger cause of forums falling into disarray far faster. Grumpy old men seem to be able to bite their tongues for a bit longer before lashing out.
Essentially the only way WOSF can be saved is not by moderation or the ban-stick, but by participants chilling out. And I suspect (sadly) that this won't happen - I've never seen it happen in any other forum, so I'm not expecting it now.
Just as someone said in the other thread, it's like picking at a scab and making it bleed again. At least with a scab you can eat it when you've picked it off.
I see people are writing off a new forum before it even starts up :) I'm also seeing echoes of the start of the switchover period from CSS to WoS - some people were predicting/observing the death of the scene ten years ago simply due to people moving on from CSS. It's all just a case of history repeating. Sure, maybe the new forum may be superceded in ten years time, but I'm up for a bit of fun in the meantime. And no one is forcing anyone to move on from WoSF, neither is anyone forcing people to choose between the two. As with when WoSF started up, the new forum will complement it for a few years. Yes, it's a split, but better than having WoSF alienating people out of the scene.
I see people are writing off a new forum before it even starts up :) I'm also seeing echoes of the start of the switchover period from CSS to WoS - some people were predicting/observing the death of the scene ten years ago simply due to people moving on from CSS. It's all just a case of history repeating. Sure, maybe the new forum may be superceded in ten years time, but I'm up for a bit of fun in the meantime. And no one is forcing anyone to move on from WoSF, neither is anyone forcing people to choose between the two. As with when WoSF started up, the new forum will complement it for a few years. Yes, it's a split, but better than having WoSF alienating people out of the scene.
Because a new forum will waste its energy on proving why it's different to WoS, or on pointless cross-posting feuds with WoS, when in reality the problem lies in the people not the forum...
when in reality the problem lies in the people not the forum...
Yep i'm with you on that one. Go back to any 'controversial' moment, often a case of someone just not getting on with someone else, instead of ignoring each other it just goes on and on like kids.
Not saying the mods are angels and get everything right, whatever they do it'll upset some one (or one party). A new forum might start off well but the second theres the usual 'handbags at dawn - if you dont ban the other person i'm off' type stuff it'll just be the same.
I actually noticed a typo - that's what I get for staying watching Cricket all night, eventually, things do not make sense.
As for being in a banned band, we used this to promote our band by saying that our band had been banned for being too loud. And of course we were loud, I only joined because Dan told me that it was a metal band (although it was more like hard rock).
...Look at the post counts in the various forums. Chit-Chat has more posts than any of the speccy forums, contains absolutely no speccy content, there's very very little worthwhile reading in there at all... And it's been around for a significantly smaller time than any of the other forums! Does that not speak volumes? The problem is not just a few of "them" - whether it's the mods, or NickH's paranoid conspiracy theories about IRC channels - the problem is YOU - you lot are killing the speccy scene slowly but surely, with your inane drivel instead of enthusiastic content.
And none of you can help it - even those that did contribute to the scene at one point are no longer doing so, and it won't be long before the current contributors stop too. It's all coming to and end and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
Totally disagree...if it wasn't for chit chat, this place would have gotten very lonely a long time ago.....the whole point in Chit Chat is exactly that...chat! It's what keeps me coming back, as I like to chat with people who have similar interests and who are of a similar age. If I hadn't kept coming here for "inane drivel", I would never have noticed all the wonderful stuff happening with all the new games being released,etc...And I'm sure it's the same for a lot of others...
If you don't like Chit Chat and think it's filled with nonsense, don't go near the bloody place! There are plenty of other forums on WOS to talk about speccy stuff, and I don't see what the problem is with this one? If anybody is killing the scene, it's moaners moaning how chit chat shouldn't exist and that the only thing people should be talking about is how to link 16 speccies together to try and play chess (which, would actually be pretty cool, but alienate about 85% of the community if the tech stuff was all that was talked about)....
And chit chat has contained plenty of references to Speccy stuff, but that argument isn't valid anyway as it is basically supposed to be the Off Topic part of WOS...
..and as for not being enthusiastic, most of the people on Chit Chat are the ones who welcome new games and things with the most enthusiasm, so again it's what you say that is nonsense....
Agree 100% with what deadpan666 said above. With all due respect, the claim that 'Chit Chat' is "killing the speccy scene" is utter bollocks. For me a big part of the Spectrum experience back in the day was the social side - having a laugh with your Speccy owning mates. I see Chit Chat as a progression of that aspect of the 'scene'.
The whole point of chit chat was to give the social side its own place, something that was needed after five years of forum activity. Beforehand, it was spilling over to other sections, and now that doesn't happen which means it's doing its job properly. There are other things on the internet that I don't like, and my way of dealing with that is by not visiting them. That's the way to deal with chit chat too.
A new forum might start off well but the second theres the usual 'handbags at dawn - if you dont ban the other person i'm off' type stuff it'll just be the same.
Look, moderating a forum effectively might be hard, but as long as the moderators of any new forum don't go banning people for asking difficult questions, they'll be doing a better job than here, and I'll be willing to give them a chance.
For me this isn't about the steady decline of the Spectrum community, or the disruptive influence of the Chit Chat forum, or anything like that. This is about one botched decision where Lee misused his moderator privileges as ammo in a personal feud with ewgf. There may have been other decisions in the past that were difficult to make - this wasn't one of them. If the moderator team continue to defend that decision then WOS's moderation system is fundamentally broken, and it's time for a change.
Look, moderating a forum effectively might be hard, but as long as the moderators of any new forum don't go banning people for asking difficult questions, they'll be doing a better job than here, and I'll be willing to give them a chance.
For me this isn't about the steady decline of the Spectrum community, or the disruptive influence of the Chit Chat forum, or anything like that. This is about one botched decision where Lee misused his moderator privileges as ammo in a personal feud with ewgf. There may have been other decisions in the past that were difficult to make - this wasn't one of them. If the moderator team continue to defend that decision then WOS's moderation system is fundamentally broken, and it's time for a change.
There are ways of asking questions - direct accusations, attacks and confrontation isn't one of them.
I have *always* responded to PM's and emails. Even the people that are PM'ing me now.
Look at 'AOwen/NickH-gate', people didnt know the full story, they only knew one half (Whatever person they were 'supporting'). No mods had any issues previously with either of them, both were well liked.
ewgf KEEPS on having digs at the mods about that, even admits he only knows one side of the story but kept going on and on and on. NONE of us disliked AOwen or NickH, we were totally neutral, we didnt purposely team with one side or that. But does ewgf let it go ? Nope, has to have his crusade about it.
When he came back the other day if i was him i would have PMed Martijn or another mod if he was unhappy with Lee's decision. Instead of creating a whole 480 line post about it which will make things worse and wont solve anything.
I do want to talk to ewgf about all of this, i think we could get it solved BUT i can just imagine in 2 weeks time there'll be another dig/comment aimed at someone which is totally uncalled for and it all starts again. The dust from the AOwen/NickH incident had settled but some people keep bringing it up.
Theres other mods here, if he thought he was treated unfairly then PM us (or Martijn), coming back and the second you're back posting a huge great tirade about why its unfair wont help the matter at all. Did ewgf post a great long thread about his 'telling off' on gamefaqs.com ? Nope he sorted it out by PM's , shouldnt wash your dirty laundry in public, get it sorted and then get back to how things were.
Agree 100% with what deadpan666 said above. With all due respect, the claim that 'Chit Chat' is "killing the speccy scene" is utter bollocks. For me a big part of the Spectrum experience back in the day was the social side - having a laugh with your Speccy owning mates. I see Chit Chat as a progression of that aspect of the 'scene'.
It's easier to blame the entire chit-chat section for the decline in everything in the universe and the price of butter going up by 6p though, and it always seems to go down this road everytime it's handbags.
Funnily enough I stay oiut of the techy forums unless I have a genuine question to ask or an interest in something being discussed on them. Generally I stay out of them after all the bitching from a few years back, as I don't want to be lynched for invading forums that don't concern me.
Yet the people who constantly moan about chit-chat just don't seem to be able to stay out of it no matter how many times they say they're staying away from it.
Comments
This don't sit well with me either. Can anyone honestly say he deserved to be banned? Granted I don't know all the facts but it does seem to be a case of how dare you question my authority, get outta my pub!
agreed.
To be fair he had puked up in the gents loo, was trying to grab the landlady's chest, had 7 triple vodkas and could hardly stand but worst of all he put 5 quid in the jukebox and put the latest Westlife album on repeat.
(A JOKE)
The machine you all adore is getting on now. 25+ years on, and ever year there are less and less enthusiasts below 30 years old. We'll keep getting one or two each year that find the speccy, but there will be less of them as the youths gradually were born to machines capable of so much more.
So each year new vitality is hemorrhaged from the forum at a pretty constant rate, and all that's left eventually are embittered 30-somethings (and 40-somethings too) that have no real drive left but wish fervently that things were back the way they were.
Look at it - no significant emulator development, just constant re-hashes of what's been done before. Nothing new. More videos of people saying how great the speccy was and what an enormous plethora of new games there was in such-and-such a year... And there's less games coming out from recognised authors each year. How many "must have" games have come out this year compared to 10 years ago? And how many new ideas for games that haven't been done before? Not many, if any this year.
All this is because the people in the scene are losing their youthful vitality, and like the old people I spend most of my life looking after, they prefer instead to bicker and argue and flounce out (well, as far as you can with a zimmer) and generally concentrate less and less on the thing that brought us all together.
Look at the post counts in the various forums. Chit-Chat has more posts than any of the speccy forums, contains absolutely no speccy content, there's very very little worthwhile reading in there at all... And it's been around for a significantly smaller time than any of the other forums! Does that not speak volumes? The problem is not just a few of "them" - whether it's the mods, or NickH's paranoid conspiracy theories about IRC channels - the problem is YOU - you lot are killing the speccy scene slowly but surely, with your inane drivel instead of enthusiastic content.
And none of you can help it - even those that did contribute to the scene at one point are no longer doing so, and it won't be long before the current contributors stop too. It's all coming to and end and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
D.
Now, that's a post, :)
Spot on. I'm sick of hearing second-hand that people have been banned when there has been no public warning of their behaviour and no reason given out by the moderator who did it.
How are the rest of the users supposed to know how to proceed if people appear to be banned at random? There are great long lists of insulting posts that no-one cares about. I see moderators remarking that people complain about them on the boards but don't report them to the moderators, and that's utter rot. If you actually read them you realise that the issue isn't about the insults - it's about how some people are randomly selected as 'having gone too far' when others, equally randomly, get off scott-free.
As for a ban simply for challenging a moderator's actions (as appears to be the case here, though again this is second-hand information), that's no way for a site to be run. Nor is a moderator having a go at people then locking a thread to prevent any replies, just before we see that little gem happen again.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
I mostly keep out of he Chit Chat section as I think hardware and software are the most interesting parts of the forums. I love what DivIDE can do, your very own SpecOS is amazing and what we need more of. I am playing with ZXC3 at the moment and just got some bug fixes turned around by Paul Farrow which is excellent news. And of course Chris Smith's ULA book this year has been fantastic - I've learned so much from which about the one chip which held the most mysteries.
I think there is a lot of same old, same old going on but the above examples (ULA book, SpecOS, ZXC3, DivIDE, Spectranet, ...) I still are fresh and new and are what I come here for, (not the chit chat).
2010 is the best year for Speccy homebrew games for years, a lot of very good releases. Before it was just Jonathan Cauldwell, then Bobs, now theres a lot of great games coming from other people specially the Mojon Twins, Ubhres, Binman/Codename v etc. WAYYYY more games than before and more people creating them. I love homebrew games and thankfully theres many of them and some excellent titles this year.
Theres a monthly retro mag which is in its 80th-ish issue, very impressive. Its great they cover homebrew as well, i'm sure the authors love to see their games in it and gives them a bit more of an incentive. We've just had the biggest retro show in quite a few years which had a very large turnout.
Yeah i wish there was more chat in the Games section which is one of my favourite parts of the forum. Yes theres a lot of chit chat, theres also some good socialising going on at the various retro shows (more would be merrier) and a lot of that is due to the 'friendships' which were based here.
We all love the Speccy, hopefully things can turn around
Also agree with the post below, i dont like the emulator section so i keep out of that. On most forums the chit chat section is the most popular, acts as the 'glue' in keeping a forum active. But do wish there were more game threads. I'm thankful for emulators as thats what got me back into the Speccy, but i'm happy with an old emulator, just plays the games i want and does everything i need.
Loved Speccy games back in the 80's and still play them in the 00's, just good to talk to fellow users
End of the day you shouldnt really need mods, we're all adults ,30/40 somethings as pointed out. I'm sure none of us bicker like this when we're down the pub so why is it constant he said/she said stuff ? But seriously we just need to be more sensible. Only say stuff you would say to a person in real life and not hiding behind a computer screen. We will have some disagreements but theyre nothing major, dont take them so personal.
Totally disagree...if it wasn't for chit chat, this place would have gotten very lonely a long time ago.....the whole point in Chit Chat is exactly that...chat! It's what keeps me coming back, as I like to chat with people who have similar interests and who are of a similar age. If I hadn't kept coming here for "inane drivel", I would never have noticed all the wonderful stuff happening with all the new games being released,etc...And I'm sure it's the same for a lot of others...
If you don't like Chit Chat and think it's filled with nonsense, don't go near the bloody place! There are plenty of other forums on WOS to talk about speccy stuff, and I don't see what the problem is with this one? If anybody is killing the scene, it's moaners moaning how chit chat shouldn't exist and that the only thing people should be talking about is how to link 16 speccies together to try and play chess (which, would actually be pretty cool, but alienate about 85% of the community if the tech stuff was all that was talked about)....
And chit chat has contained plenty of references to Speccy stuff, but that argument isn't valid anyway as it is basically supposed to be the Off Topic part of WOS...
..and as for not being enthusiastic, most of the people on Chit Chat are the ones who welcome new games and things with the most enthusiasm, so again it's what you say that is nonsense....
My god, it's like reading Dr Seuss... :)
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Agreed - a thoughtful reply there. The "scene" seems very much alive and fresh - looking beyond WOS and CSS will garner results.
Why not make it simpler and just say that if someone makes a personal attack on another member, they get warned, and if they do it a second time, they get banned. If they attack someone using a metaphor relating to male/female genitalia, they get banned. And if someone feels they are on the receiving end of this, they click the report button and let the mods deal with it. Now what's wrong with that?
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New sig!? :-o
Any forum - doesn't matter who's in it, the age range, subject or whatever (indeed, I'd say the younger the age range the faster it happens) - given sufficient time falls into quarreling and arguments. I think I wrote about this here earlier this year. Unfortunately, there is NOTHING you can do to stop it, indeed heavy handed moderation may just accelerate the decline. I saw it happen on FidoNet echoes. I saw it happen on Usenet. I saw it happen on a BBS that I ran. Now it's happening here.
The cycle goes like this. When the forum is new, everyone is jovial, no one has offended each other yet. But as time goes on and people learn each other's personalities and quirks, occasionally dislikes spawn, and you get the odd argument. Inevitably one turns nasty so fast no one can moderate it (and it's a lost cause if someone did catch it - because sooner rather than later it'll happen again and it's only a matter of time that it gets out of hand before anyone can moderate it), and then you get Grudges, Chips-On-Shoulders, Animosity and a whole range of other negative things between some participants.
As time continues the grudges just grow. In fact, moderation may make it worse; sometimes the flame wars can end in a kissing-and-making-up, but with the thread closed instead the participants continue to seethe, just waiting for the next excuse to have a kick-off. Then you get groups of people taking sides. And once you reach that point it's all downhill.
WOSF have actually managed to go on much longer than most without this happening. I think it took about 8 years for the rot to set in (normally, the rot sets in after 2 or 3 years, in my experience), so I'm not certain I agree with Dunny's thesis that it's grumpy old men, I find grumpy young men are a far bigger cause of forums falling into disarray far faster. Grumpy old men seem to be able to bite their tongues for a bit longer before lashing out.
Essentially the only way WOSF can be saved is not by moderation or the ban-stick, but by participants chilling out. And I suspect (sadly) that this won't happen - I've never seen it happen in any other forum, so I'm not expecting it now.
Just as someone said in the other thread, it's like picking at a scab and making it bleed again. At least with a scab you can eat it when you've picked it off.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
Because a new forum will waste its energy on proving why it's different to WoS, or on pointless cross-posting feuds with WoS, when in reality the problem lies in the people not the forum...
Yep i'm with you on that one. Go back to any 'controversial' moment, often a case of someone just not getting on with someone else, instead of ignoring each other it just goes on and on like kids.
Not saying the mods are angels and get everything right, whatever they do it'll upset some one (or one party). A new forum might start off well but the second theres the usual 'handbags at dawn - if you dont ban the other person i'm off' type stuff it'll just be the same.
If you dont get on with someone just ignore them
As for being in a banned band, we used this to promote our band by saying that our band had been banned for being too loud. And of course we were loud, I only joined because Dan told me that it was a metal band (although it was more like hard rock).
Regards,
Shaun.
Agree 100% with what deadpan666 said above. With all due respect, the claim that 'Chit Chat' is "killing the speccy scene" is utter bollocks. For me a big part of the Spectrum experience back in the day was the social side - having a laugh with your Speccy owning mates. I see Chit Chat as a progression of that aspect of the 'scene'.
World of Grumpy Angry Nerds (Wogan)
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Look, moderating a forum effectively might be hard, but as long as the moderators of any new forum don't go banning people for asking difficult questions, they'll be doing a better job than here, and I'll be willing to give them a chance.
For me this isn't about the steady decline of the Spectrum community, or the disruptive influence of the Chit Chat forum, or anything like that. This is about one botched decision where Lee misused his moderator privileges as ammo in a personal feud with ewgf. There may have been other decisions in the past that were difficult to make - this wasn't one of them. If the moderator team continue to defend that decision then WOS's moderation system is fundamentally broken, and it's time for a change.
There are ways of asking questions - direct accusations, attacks and confrontation isn't one of them.
I have *always* responded to PM's and emails. Even the people that are PM'ing me now.
Look at 'AOwen/NickH-gate', people didnt know the full story, they only knew one half (Whatever person they were 'supporting'). No mods had any issues previously with either of them, both were well liked.
ewgf KEEPS on having digs at the mods about that, even admits he only knows one side of the story but kept going on and on and on. NONE of us disliked AOwen or NickH, we were totally neutral, we didnt purposely team with one side or that. But does ewgf let it go ? Nope, has to have his crusade about it.
When he came back the other day if i was him i would have PMed Martijn or another mod if he was unhappy with Lee's decision. Instead of creating a whole 480 line post about it which will make things worse and wont solve anything.
I do want to talk to ewgf about all of this, i think we could get it solved BUT i can just imagine in 2 weeks time there'll be another dig/comment aimed at someone which is totally uncalled for and it all starts again. The dust from the AOwen/NickH incident had settled but some people keep bringing it up.
Theres other mods here, if he thought he was treated unfairly then PM us (or Martijn), coming back and the second you're back posting a huge great tirade about why its unfair wont help the matter at all. Did ewgf post a great long thread about his 'telling off' on gamefaqs.com ? Nope he sorted it out by PM's , shouldnt wash your dirty laundry in public, get it sorted and then get back to how things were.
It's easier to blame the entire chit-chat section for the decline in everything in the universe and the price of butter going up by 6p though, and it always seems to go down this road everytime it's handbags.
Funnily enough I stay oiut of the techy forums unless I have a genuine question to ask or an interest in something being discussed on them. Generally I stay out of them after all the bitching from a few years back, as I don't want to be lynched for invading forums that don't concern me.
Yet the people who constantly moan about chit-chat just don't seem to be able to stay out of it no matter how many times they say they're staying away from it.
Why is that I wonder?