Wikileaks.
So I see Wikileaks is at it again and the USA and UK both have eggs on their faces.
The papers arnt giving the full facts yet, they are being quite vague. However, apparently the Guardian plan to drip feed some stories over the coming days.
It also seems that Wikileaks is undergoing a major DOS attack right now (I wonder who from? :roll: ). Its very hard to get the site up, soon as they move, the DOS soon follows.
Personally I think Wikileaks is a force for good, but the US government and their agencies are going for him, as can be heard in that Fox news clip the BBC keep showing.
The papers arnt giving the full facts yet, they are being quite vague. However, apparently the Guardian plan to drip feed some stories over the coming days.
It also seems that Wikileaks is undergoing a major DOS attack right now (I wonder who from? :roll: ). Its very hard to get the site up, soon as they move, the DOS soon follows.
Personally I think Wikileaks is a force for good, but the US government and their agencies are going for him, as can be heard in that Fox news clip the BBC keep showing.
Post edited by Scottie_uk on
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Comments
Think it can only do more harm than good
Nothing good ever comes of these leaked documents and lessons are never learned.
I would agree with you if the revelations were about national defence, but it seems they are more like national offence to me.
Also why are we spending billions on a war against Al-Q, when the Saudi elite are funding them and getting no redress.
Surely we are fighting the problem not a cause.
Totally agree. Still dont agree with Scottie that this stuff needs to be outed. Imagine if they had wikileaks during World war II, leaking all this stuff thinking its for the publics best interests etc.
Any government in any country in any year will have secrets where in a meeting there might be moaning about a particular country or leader. I dont expect it to be leaked. You dont go and see minutes of some meetings of bosses at work where they obviously talk about whos good/whos bad kinda stuff. I never saw the minutes of meetings where my bosses mentioned who would be redundant etc and the real reasons for it.
Can only do a lot of harm. I dont want to see all these secrets, thats for the leaders to do, thats why i vote for them to be in power. Is anyone surprised by some of the content ? I'm not, its obvious a leader will moan about someone else, a country or some crazy plan. Shouldnt be made public.
of course it would have been disaster for the allies, but maybe if they had wikileaks in germany when people started going missing things might have been different.
obviously america doesn't lock people up for their political or religious beliefs. :D
In the old days the government got on with their job, we obviously only see a bit of PR now and then but the rest of it they get up to themselves.
In the old days Joe Public couldnt announce to the world his views on subject '.....', nowadays everyones turned into Stephen Fry and can easily give their views on everything via the internet. They can have their rant whereas in the old days you just kept it to yourself or a quick chat down the pub with your mates.
I never thought any government was crystal clean, always thought that governments moan/slate each other just like (well the rest of us). But i just think none of this helps matters
I've not seen the content of the latest leak so I can't really comment about it. But on the earlier leaks in general, I think it was a good thing - the electorate need to know and have proof how hypocritical our governments are to be able to demand change. Western governments prattle on about defending freedom and democracy and then behind our backs do the kind of things that they criticise China and Russia for.
Bloody hell! I hope not!!
;)
That's a foregone conlusion. Someone said once, "The ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top"
That says to me that his/her morals, must have been compromised beyond the breaking point.
Or they've been given a fair bit of dosh to help spill everything !
I agree with the principle that there are things that /do/ need to be secret (though 50 years is way to long in most cases). The problem is the abuse of this to hide things that you don't want people to read.
In a democracy, you have to allow freedom of speech... but that freedom should come with an understanding that there are times when it is best not to know.
Ha ha believe me i was thinking about that today !
Also, USA spies on everyone and on every country and expects people in other countries to reveal secrets to the US. When they are encouraging other people to do this then why shouldn't anyone in sensitive positions in the US reveal information about the US?
The US often criticises other countries for the very things the US does but secretly. Surely its right for the world to know the truth?
If the US genuinly belived it was right in all its decision and thinking then it would not be worried about the leaks.
We know that eg the US palnned to blow up its own ship and balme it on the Cubans and use this as excuse to attack Cuba. Can the US really be trusted? No.
those that support the US are either genuinly ignorant or know the truth but still choose to support the morally wrong side
Much like you might talk to your wife about concerns over your children and the best way to 'guide' them. It's none of the kids business and them knowing you are having those chats might cause ill feeling that is basically groundless.
From what I heard on the radio a lot of the 'egg of face' documents fall into the 'chit chat' category, being that they are 'field memos' rather than officially endorsed documents.
I mean i trust this story was years ago when there was the huge Cuba conflict and everyone thought there would be nukes going off all over the place ? I mean that was years ago, so because of that we cant trust them now ?
Look back at any other countries history and theres probably similar stories. Theres bad stories about major religions as well, abuse etc, should we never trust religious leaders again ? Going by your thinking we probably wouldnt trust any government in the world.
I dont think any government is 100% perfect, i'm sure they have chats all over the place about stuff ,much of which wont happen but if its recorded and then leaked it obviously looks bad as anything.
I think they should have just leaked the major stuff, not 238,000 documents (not that i've read them) but can imagine some are stuff like 'Colonel Smith said on tuesday 17th that he thought the leader of Russia smells...' kinda rubbish. I mean so what if someone thinks Prince Andrew is an idiot, we all know that. Give us the good stuff not 237,990 articles of gumpf and the odd major one.
Feel a bit sorry for that wikileaks 'leader', the guy with the grey hair. Being accused of something dodgy isnt he? I mean that does look like a huge smear campaign. (But to be fair IF you were a dodgy person with rumours about your private life or abuse with children etc, just join wikileaks. The second the press/government get hold of that story it instantly looks like a smear campaign !)
Even though it was the BBC you could tell exactly what news reader thought of that charge, by the look on his face as he read it out, in other words a load of concocted strung out nonsense, probably influenced by the egg splattered USA.
Religious leaders should never be trusted: organized religion is merely a power structure, and religious leaders have all had to make their way up their respective greasy poles, with very few exceptions.
What is insidious is countries like ours and the United States go around preaching "freedom" while practising the very things it says it's against; for example it's now certain the US used torture under the Bush administration, and to add insult to injury when some of the alleged torturers were in Spain, put pressure on the Spanish judiciary to stop the investigation of these crimes. There was a big brouhaha only a few weeks ago when Israel started to put pressure on Britain to make sure none of its government leaders are liable for prosecution for war crimes in the UK. Then we find out that the west has been doing exactly the same thing - not just committing war crimes at a very high level, but trying to put pressure on the judiciary to not investigate them.
Until they stop shennanigans like this it's not a matter of classifying governments by the most trustworthy to the least, but rather from the least untrustworthy to the most untrustworthy - a subtle distinction, but I think it's fair to say that for anything other than everyday stuff international politics resembles the school playground. Except - worryingly - many of the schoolyard bullies have nuclear weapons.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/30/noam_chomsky_wikileaks_cables_reveal_profound
Also Sarah Palin is showing now her true colours: she wants Juilan Assange to be killed. (She's as thick as two short planks, she'll just make a martyr)
1) Banging on about the corruption of the Russians will cloud the problems with our own andthe American govt.
2) They hope the Russian govenment will be as pissed off as the American government, thus increasing the chances of Julian. A being bumped off.
I reckon all news should be like this.....I'd definitely pay more attention! :D