Define these terms?
Just been having a discussion about survival horror games, and this led onto what actually constitutes such a game. The common definition seems to be a game with horror connotations where the objective is to survive (er, obviously). But whereas Silent Hill and Dead Space are classed as survival horror by almost anyone who's played them, some people say that the original Doom isn't a survival horror game, even though it fits the criteria. Aparently a survival horror game has to have too little ammo to kill all of the enemies, those people say. Others disagree, and say that Doom, Half-Life, Dead Rising etc are all survival horrors, as you are trying to survive wave after wave of non-human enemies.
Some of them say that Bioshock is a survival horror, whereas others say "No, as the enemies are human". Some people point out that Bioshock's enemies were human, but are now mutated to one degree or another.
And no doubt some people would say that any game set in a real life war zone is a survival horror, as the scene is (undeniably) full of horror and the objective is to survive.
And come to think of it, maybe the 1977 arcade game Space Invaders is survival horror? Makes you realise how pointless these definitions is, doesn't it?
So, how would you define "survival horror"?
Also, what is a cult game? Some people class it as any game with an almost fanatical following (which in itself calls for a definition of 'fanatical'), others insist that the game must be both a small seller, and also not widely admired and played, but again provoke and almost fanatical following. So can a large selling game be a cult game, and what other criteria are there?
Hardore gamer/casual gamer.
I HATE these terms, as I only ever see them use to cheapen or criticize the owners of certain machines, for example, on the XBox 360 boards I regularly see the 360 described as a machine for 'hardcore gamers', whereas the Wii (a common target) is described as a machine for 'casual gamers', which is intended to belittle the Wii owners by implying that 'real' games are beyong both the Wiis' and the Wii owners' capabilities.
So anyway, how would you define "Survival horror", "cult game", and "hardcore" and "casual" gamers? There's more terms I see used confusedly (mostly on current gen. boards, mostly by spoilt adolescent teens who think it's impressive to use such terms) but I'm supposed to be working here (it's what I'm badly paid for) so I may as well get back to it. Wish I did the lottery, then I could win millions and retire and fill WOS with my wisdom all day long...
Some of them say that Bioshock is a survival horror, whereas others say "No, as the enemies are human". Some people point out that Bioshock's enemies were human, but are now mutated to one degree or another.
And no doubt some people would say that any game set in a real life war zone is a survival horror, as the scene is (undeniably) full of horror and the objective is to survive.
And come to think of it, maybe the 1977 arcade game Space Invaders is survival horror? Makes you realise how pointless these definitions is, doesn't it?
So, how would you define "survival horror"?
Also, what is a cult game? Some people class it as any game with an almost fanatical following (which in itself calls for a definition of 'fanatical'), others insist that the game must be both a small seller, and also not widely admired and played, but again provoke and almost fanatical following. So can a large selling game be a cult game, and what other criteria are there?
Hardore gamer/casual gamer.
I HATE these terms, as I only ever see them use to cheapen or criticize the owners of certain machines, for example, on the XBox 360 boards I regularly see the 360 described as a machine for 'hardcore gamers', whereas the Wii (a common target) is described as a machine for 'casual gamers', which is intended to belittle the Wii owners by implying that 'real' games are beyong both the Wiis' and the Wii owners' capabilities.
So anyway, how would you define "Survival horror", "cult game", and "hardcore" and "casual" gamers? There's more terms I see used confusedly (mostly on current gen. boards, mostly by spoilt adolescent teens who think it's impressive to use such terms) but I'm supposed to be working here (it's what I'm badly paid for) so I may as well get back to it. Wish I did the lottery, then I could win millions and retire and fill WOS with my wisdom all day long...
Post edited by ewgf on
Comments
if i like a game i play it.
I don't consider myself a hardcore or casual gamer, but I do think of myself as an experienced gamer (been playing games for 30 years!).
Doom3 counts as horror, I would suppose, but it's more of a shooter than an RPG so to speak, and there's no situation in the game where you survive by hiding or using implements in an ingenious manner - you just shoot your way out.
Good examples are the Penumbra series, Alone in the Dark (original PC versions 1 + 2), Alan Wake et al. All very, very strong plot systems and very little action. In fact, you could say that the object is to avoid action and any situations where you might get yourself killed. Realism is generally key as far as violence is concerned.
Some have said that the thief games are also survival horror, but I'd disagree - your character is there with an agenda besides survival (thievery) and so can't be called survival horror.
All that said though, if you find a game scares the crap out of you and you enjoy that, then you can call it what you like :-p
As for hardcore/softcore gamers - it's generally accepted that New Super Mario Bros. Wii, on its hardest difficulty, is probably one of the most hardcore games you'll ever play.
D.
i presume because resident evil was a hard game to classify.
IMHO i call a game a survival horror if it is like resident evil. inventory, scary, etc
Pretty much, yes. I think generally "survival horror" is indicating a Resident Evil style game - tension rather than all out shooting, with an emphasis on making tough calls on ammo usage and so on. Simply having horror elements and requiring you to survive isn't really the same thing.
'Cult game' is much like 'cult movie', a title which generally isn't considered to have had any real mainstream success originally, but which nevertheless has a hardcore following. Oddly, some 'cult' titles become so well known for being 'cult' that they kind of become mainstream, yet are still referred to as such - see Rocky Horror Picture Show for a good example.
3rd Person in oblique perspective.
Inventory.
Save points in pre-determined areas.
Pre-rendered scenes and or environments.
Zombies / Alien perils.
That's about it me thinks.
A cult game is like a cult anything: it attracts a very loyal, mildly (or even not mildly) obsessive fan base.
As for hardcore/casual gamer, they're completely misleading terms. Many of the games "hardcore" gamers play are piss-easy; they just play them for hours on end. Conversely, many of the "casual" games are actually challenging (an "old school difficulty level" in the parlance of the gaming media) and need real skill to beat them.
Ooh! No one pointed a gun at your head and forced you to answer this thread, Mr Einstain :-P
But yes, it is a pointless discussion, I just brought it up for something to talk about.
I would agree with that - if I were to use the "survival horror" phrase to reference a sub genre, I'd include the caveat that it must involve more thought than the usual shoot-dodge-shoot-move action (not that I'm criticising the latter sort of game, just saying that it's not (to me) survival horror if you're armed to the teeth with weapons that can level a planet and a zillion rounds of ammo).
Exactly, that's my point. The Suffering, Half-Life 2, FEAR, Left 4 Dead, Dead Space, etc, are all horror games in that if you were in them then you'd be scared to death, but they all have a proliferation of easily attainable weapons and enough ammunition to blow the enemies away and allow you to get to safety. So they might be horror games, or rather, the term 'horror' might legitimately make up a part of their description, but the emphasis is on action rather than survival, so I wouldn't class them as 'survival horror'.
I do think that a true survival horror game is one where you can't fight your way out, or at least you can only fight your way out of a few situations, and have to use your brain to get you out of most situations.
it can be a bit interchangable though, like you would say 'the sound of music' has a cult following, but isn't a cult film.
suppose its up to claudia winkleman these days. :-P
I still wonder how that gormless bint even got on TV?
It's not like that stupid pajama party program she was on even had any tits on it? She was coupled with Katy Puckrick as well, she was even more talentless, I remember she used to be on the word occasionally, and I think she presented Manhattan Cable for a while.
Programs full of shock rock metal bands, transvestites, poo, and hardcore porn, kinda like Eurotrash, but grittier, but where else would you get your late friday night boob fix when you were 15 :lol:
Oh hang on Claudia Winkleman.....right....that's who we were talking about....hmmm?
You obviously haven't played Dead Space at Impossible level then ;-) The gun clicks dry all to quickly and all you can do is - RUUUUUUUUN!! ;-)
Actually, that might be an interesting discussion for another day. At what difficulty level should you play a game to truly experience what the developer envisaged? Only Impossible level on Dead Space 2 gave me that true feeling of utter panic as I unloaded on a creature trying to make every shot count as my precious ammo depleted. BUT I had to complete it on another difficulty to unlock that mode.
I couldn't agree more, "hardcore/casual" are the vilest terms in gaming snobbery. Surely we have a diverse enough hobby that it can cater for all tastes across the board. What annoys me most is that gamers for decades have been screaming for their hobby to become accepted by the masses and not deemed a pastime proliferated by geeks and children.
When it does, all the "hardcore" can do is whinge about the amount of "shovelware" (another term I detest) on offer - which is bullshit, it's always been this way, they just sell a lot more nowadays, and todays shovelware is a hell of lot better than yester years. For example, I spent a great few hours over Christmas with my daughter playing Dance Central 2.
The irony is that the Wii (supposedly the biggest culprit) has some of the purest games out there, especially those produced by Nintendo themselves. Consider yourself a gamer? Then complete Super Mario Galaxy 1 or 2 to 100% rather than getting a Prestige rating of 65535 on COD by going into a cheating cage match online.
I play loads of games, and I mean loads, but I tend to favour games that aren't massively popular, aren't that well known, didn't get that good of a review score. Sure I play some popular games though, and strangley enough they usually provide me with a quick distraction, and the majority of the time leave me feeling short changed shall we say?
So even though I devote a stupidly large amount of hours to video games, does it make me a casual gamer because I'm not playing Gears of War 2, or Call of Duty, or Mario 15, or Sponge Bob Squarepants Hardcore Snuff Movie Sado Porn Edition?
Bunch of arse the lot of it if you ask me.
if i was chatting up a girl, id say i was a casual gamer.
in fact when i am talking to girls i mention my wii more than my xbox.
I find not mentioning video games or systems at all when you're talking to girls tends to improve your scoring potential even more ;)
e.g. rescue on fractulus when the alien comes up to the ship
resi evil with the zombies n dogs jumping thru the window
it's funny they do this with music.. as long as you enjoy it thats all that counts
A cult game is one that has outlived its own hype. Chaos is a cult game because it came out of nowhere. Elite is a cult game because, although massively hyped at the time, people still play it 25 years later.
Casual gamers are people who play games for fun.
Hardcore gamers are people who spend lots of time moaning about casual gamers on internet forums.