And yes, the mouse and keyboard is more precise than a joypad, but not by nearly so much as some PC owners make out - look at some speed run videos, for example, of console FPSs, where the player gets headshots every time. This just would not be possible if joypads weren't accurate enough to play FPS.
Its my understanding that the accuracy for head shots is adjusted for the console ports to allow for this,if this is true it would explain why headshots appear to be just a easy to obtain (if not easier) on console FPS games.
I am sure i read about this on an online gaming forum somewhere if i can find it i will get back to you.
The gaming platform of choice for me now though is PC gaming, since the types of games I like most (FPS, space sim, driving games) tend to be much better on PC (and far easier to control) than on console.
And I don't like Perfect Dark either.
I never asked you to like it. I just asked you to name me even one PC FPS that even approached it's sophistication and features.
Such a comparison would be objective, unlike personal preference, which is why I asked for it, as if you were right then you could prove it by naming that game and it's features.
The gaming platform of choice for me now though is PC gaming, since the types of games I like most (FPS, space sim, driving games) tend to be much better on PC (and far easier to control) than on console.
Just because you think that PD is the best game ever doesn't make it right. If that was the case, then more copies of that game would've been sold against something like Half Life, that sold somewhere in the region of 8.5 million copies against PD's 2.5 million.
And what about space sims? You telling me that something like Freescape, I-War or X are bettered by space sims that appeared on consoles? Yeah right...
Driving games are a tricky one. I tend to prefer them on PC because they can play at a much higher quality setting than what the console can give, providing me with a better gaming experience. Is that incorrect then? Well, no, of course not.
I never asked you to like it. I just asked you to name me even one PC FPS that even approached it's sophistication and features.
I don't have to though, I just have to like the game more, which in the case of the games I play, I do. Does it make me right full-stop, well of course not. But it doesn't make you right too, which you are hell bent on trying to prove that you are.
Such a comparison would be objective, unlike personal preference...
Which is exactly what I've been trying to say. I'm not here to argue that I'm right and you're wrong. You really should step back, relax and realise that the the gaming world doesn't revolve around you, or anyone, and that what you think is the best may not be the best for everyone else around you, and you should stop trying to argue your point.
which is wrong, at least as far as first person shooters go.
Woah there! You can't now backtrack your original statement that when I said that FPS, driving and space sims tend to be much better on PC than console, that I was incorrect! That's just trying to move the goalposts to suit your needs.
Note that I made bold a part of that sentence. It's the same wording that I used in my previous post. Notice how I didn't say they are better, but tend to be better, which from the sheer number of FPS games on PC (against consoles), and the sales of, would back up my thoughts on the subject.
Just because you think that PD is the best game ever doesn't make it right. If that was the case, then more copies of that game would've been sold against something like Half Life, that sold somewhere in the region of 8.5 million copies against PD's 2.5 million.
Where both times you try to argue your opinion as facts, and fail dismally.
But to answer your question:
1) Sales are not representative of quality. As I said in one of the above threads:
"Remember Steps? The cover "band". They sold a ton of records, and were voted the best band of the twentieth century, at the Millenium celebrations on the BBC. Popularity and sales mean little with regards to quality. Look at The Da Vinci Code, a terrible book, but it sold sixty million (I think that's what I heard)."
2) There were and are millions of PC gamers in the world when Half-Life was released. But when PD was released, the N64 was all but commercially dead and most N64 owners had jumped ship to the Dreamcast or whatever. Plus PD needed the expensive and quite rare 4MB memory add-on pack to work.
In short, there were not too many N64 owners left, and of those, many didn't have access to the memory pak.
I have no idea how many gaming PCs there were at the time of HL's release, but I think it's fair to say that a larger proportion of N64 owners bought PD than PC owners brought HL.
Not, as I repeat, that sales indicate quality.
And what about space sims? You telling me that something like Freescape, I-War or X are bettered by space sims that appeared on consoles? Yeah right...
I never mentioned Space sims. I don't play them, so I can't judge them.
Driving games are a tricky one. I tend to prefer them on PC because they can play at a much higher quality setting than what the console can give, providing me with a better gaming experience. Is that incorrect then? Well, no, of course not.
Quality? You mean graphics, presumably?
If you prefer graphics over gameplay then I can see why you didn't like Goldeneye.
I don't have to though,
No, but you would if you could. You can't so you ignore the issue instead.
You don't have to perpetuate the myth that PC FPSs are better than console FPSs, but you do. But when it comes to facts, oh suddenly it's not worth the time.
I just have to like the game more, which in the case of the games I play,
Liking something more does not make it "much better" [to quote your own words], despite what you might think.
I do. Does it make me right full-stop, well of course not. But it doesn't make you right too, which you are hell bent on trying to prove that you are.
You started this with the PC fanboyish statement. I see enough of that on other sites. And I asked you again to name one game, JUST ONE, that would prove your point, and you can't do it. You know it. I know it. But you won't retract what you said, though, will you?
Which is exactly what I've been trying to say. I'm not here to argue that I'm right and you're wrong. You really should step back, relax and realise that the the gaming world doesn't revolve around you, or anyone, and that what you think is the best may not be the best for everyone else around you, and you should stop trying to argue your point.
I'm correcting your fanboy lie. I realise that the world does not revolve around me, but then I'm not the one who makes (incorrect) statements and then won't admit that he's wrong when he's shown to be wrong.
In another thread I made an erroneous statement about graphics cards' usage of their RAM. You corrected me, and I accepted it. I didn't try to wiggle out of it, or post "I'm walking away from this thread" or whatever. I was wrong, I was corrected, and I accepted it.
Now you've made a statement, which if true is easily provable by you. So I ask you, either post your proof, or admit you were wrong.
You are simply unbelievable. I can't be arsed with you any more. Talk about twisting your posts to (try to) make yourself right.
Another thread ruined by ewgf. Cheers.
Coward. You either had to provide proof (by typing a whole name of a game, oooooohhhhhh that'd take you forever), or admit that you are wrong, and you can't do either.
And I've not ruined this thread. It's not me who made a statement then wasn't man enough to admit he was wrong when pulled up over it.
In point of fact, it's people like you who ruin threads with your fanboy bias.
Edit: I retract the "coward" comment, as I don't want to descend to insults. Anyway, everyone can judge you by your behaviour themselves (or is it lack of behaviour, if you refrain from doing something, i.e. providing proof?)
I recently came into possession of a Pandora. The best thing about that is that I can now get into playing all the old games I used to miss out on.
On SNES, the Zelda game is a bit pants. Maybe I needed to be a teenager and thus blinded by my peers enthusiasm but that game is just downright dull. Earthbound, however, is an excellent game. So you're wrong about that one, ewgf.
MarioCart on SNES is in no way whatsoever better than the N64 version, said N64 version being slightly better than the DS version. Wrong again then?
Perfect Dark is ok, but it's a bit run-of-the-mill, and certainly doesn't stand up against the real classic FPS games - Quake and Doom stand out here as being far, far better. "Oh, but PD isn't about shooting and ****, it's also about Stealth!" to which I'll just retort with "Thief 1, Thief 2 and Dark Mod" and leave it at that. PD was very much ignored by the majority of fans for good reason - we had better games to play.
I recently came into possession of a Pandora. The best thing about that is that I can now get into playing all the old games I used to miss out on.
On SNES, the Zelda game is a bit pants. Maybe I needed to be a teenager and thus blinded by my peers enthusiasm but that game is just downright dull. Earthbound, however, is an excellent game. So you're wrong about that one, ewgf.
MarioCart on SNES is in no way whatsoever better than the N64 version, said N64 version being slightly better than the DS version. Wrong again then?
Perfect Dark is ok, but it's a bit run-of-the-mill, and certainly doesn't stand up against the real classic FPS games - Quake and Doom stand out here as being far, far better. "Oh, but PD isn't about shooting and ****, it's also about Stealth!" to which I'll just retort with "Thief 1, Thief 2 and Dark Mod" and leave it at that. PD was very much ignored by the majority of fans for good reason - we had better games to play.
D.
the thing with the later mariokart games isnt just cos theyre better, its the characters and difficulty, the snes had the difficulty pitched perfectly, the characters always had their own little characteristics and differences.
also on the snes you had the short cuts, which get less and less as the games proceed through the years :(
on the snes me and my mates had hours, days and weeks of fun trying to perfect shortcut jumps, something that disappeared as the games came onto later machines :(
thats why id still say the snes version is the pinnacle
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
the thing with the later mariokart games isnt just cos theyre better, its the characters and difficulty, the snes had the difficulty pitched perfectly, the characters always had their own little characteristics and differences.
also on the snes you had the short cuts, which get less and less as the games proceed through the years :(
on the snes me and my mates had hours, days and weeks of fun trying to perfect shortcut jumps, something that disappeared as the games came onto later machines :(
thats why id still say the snes version is the pinnacle
Yeah, I see where you're coming from but ... Because this thread is the "opinions stated as fact" thread, I can see why you're wrong too.
For you, the SNES version is the best because you had the most fun with that version with your mates. I never played on a SNES (ever) so my first encounter with Mariokart SNES was only recently, and to be honest it's not a good game at all when compared to later versions.
My, there really are some misguided people in this thread! FPS better on a console? roffle.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from but ... Because this thread is the "opinions stated as fact" thread, I can see why you're wrong too.
For you, the SNES version is the best because you had the most fun with that version with your mates. I never played on a SNES (ever) so my first encounter with Mariokart SNES was only recently, and to be honest it's not a good game at all when compared to later versions.
My, there really are some misguided people in this thread! FPS better on a console? roffle.
D.
i suppose it does make a difference if you played it then or now, the difficulty is a major factor in my eyes, and yeah this threads utter ******** thats why i thought id have a peek, everybody can never agree on a game
by the way dude what servers spin and speccy on these days?, i fancy a mooch, i checked astrolink and i was the only person in lol
edit:- im in now :) well #speccy
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
Perfect Dark is ok, but it's a bit run-of-the-mill,
Run of the mill? I'd hardly say that - how many other first person shooters have counter-op modes, the ability to defined the health and accuracy of the enemies as a (great) unlockable, the ability to disarm opponents, some very good unlockables that really add to the gameplay, the ability to shoot the gun out of the hands of an opponent, or that add more objectives and open level space the harder the skill level you play on?
and certainly doesn't stand up against the real classic FPS games - Quake and Doom stand out here as being far, far better.
Eh? Neither of them have bots, neither of them have objectives, neither of them display more than very basic AI, neither of them have an arsenal even half as large or good as PD's, neither of them have neutral or friendly characters to add atmosphere to the game, neither of them have sniper rifles or any other sort of zoom function, neither of them have non-conventional weapons like remote ot proximity mines or first person guidable rockets or a turret gun etc, and of course neither of them have any of the things I list above.
They are both much simpler, and whilst I love Doom (never liked Quake) I don't see how it can be said to be even half as good.
"Oh, but PD isn't about shooting and ****, it's also about Stealth!" to which I'll just retort with "Thief 1, Thief 2 and Dark Mod" and leave it at that. PD was very much ignored by the majority of fans for good reason - we had better games to play.
D.
And yet you name Doom and Quake, instead of these 'better' games. Or do you really think that the tedious, seventeen shades of brown, Quake is that good? The No One lives Forever games are much better examples of PC FPSs than Doom and Quake, I think.
And regarding stealth, yes it wasn't nearly so well implemented in PD as in the Thief games, but it was good enough to get past some enemies, which was all it was for - it was a shooter not a stealth game. Deus Ex did stealth better than PD, but it still wasn't nearly as good as thief's, but again, DE is a shooter at heart.
Just because ewgf loves Perfect Dark doesn't mean everyone else has to.
Reading through the thread I get the impression that if someone disagrees with ewgf's choice of favourite games then they must by definition be wrong.
The answer to the question the thread posed is unanswerable as every one has different tastes.
What I don't want to see is emotions running high and unwanted comments made leading to bannings and suspensions, so can everyone please put a little thought into their posts before hitting "Submit Reply".
Just because ewgf loves Perfect Dark doesn't mean everyone else has to.
Reading through the thread I get the impression that if someone disagrees with ewgf's choice of favourite games then they must by definition be wrong.
The answer to the question the thread posed is unanswerable as every one has different tastes.
What I don't want to see is emotions running high and unwanted comments made leading to bannings and suspensions, so can everyone please put a little thought into their posts before hitting "Submit Reply".
Thank you, I totally 100% agree with every aspect of this post of yours. I don't want to argue, I don't feel like I have to defend or prove anything. As I said in my previous posts, I don't assume I'm right with my opinions, but no-one else should think that means they are totally right too. There is no right or wrong with this sort of thread. That's all I want to say on this particular part of the thread now.
Thank you, I totally 100% agree with every aspect of this post of yours. I don't want to argue, I don't feel like I have to defend or prove anything. As I said in my previous posts, I don't assume I'm right with my opinions, but no-one else should think that means they are totally right too. There is no right or wrong with this sort of thread. That's all I want to say on this particular part of the thread now.
Now... what about Saboteur? :D
I'll draw a line under it if you will.
Anyway, I never really liked Saboteur, but I didn't dislike it, just wasn't a big fan. I don't think I ever played the second one.
They are both much simpler, and whilst I love Doom (never liked Quake) I don't see how it can be said to be even half as good.
Trust me, you're wrong.
And yet you name Doom and Quake, instead of these 'better' games. Or do you really think that the tedious, seventeen shades of brown, Quake is that good? The No One lives Forever games are much better examples of PC FPSs than Doom and Quake, I think.
I find that gameplay is better than eyecandy, but meh, YMMV. If you like games simply because they have better graphics then you have my condolences. You can clearly see how you're wrong here.
And regarding stealth, yes it wasn't nearly so well implemented in PD as in the Thief games, but it was good enough to get past some enemies, which was all it was for - it was a shooter not a stealth game. Deus Ex did stealth better than PD, but it still wasn't nearly as good as thief's, but again, DE is a shooter at heart.
I don't like to say it, but I agree with you here. PD really was a very dull, uninspiring game. Certainly not a patch on DeusEx.
For you, the SNES version is the best because you had the most fun with that version with your mates. I never played on a SNES (ever) so my first encounter with Mariokart SNES was only recently, and to be honest it's not a good game at all when compared to later versions.
The thing I found most frustrating with all the Mario Kart games was the feeling of cheatingbastness you got from it when you were doing quite well and then at the last turn you'd get hit by EVERY F*@%ING WEAPON in the game putting you last. It's not a bug or anything, but it just makes you go mental with anger!
Comments
Its my understanding that the accuracy for head shots is adjusted for the console ports to allow for this,if this is true it would explain why headshots appear to be just a easy to obtain (if not easier) on console FPS games.
I am sure i read about this on an online gaming forum somewhere if i can find it i will get back to you.
Actually, it's you who started it, with the (incorrect) :
I never asked you to like it. I just asked you to name me even one PC FPS that even approached it's sophistication and features.
Such a comparison would be objective, unlike personal preference, which is why I asked for it, as if you were right then you could prove it by naming that game and it's features.
Dude, you did :p
He said, "for me" (as in, for him!)
Same as consoles being better is "for you". Simples!
Just because you think that PD is the best game ever doesn't make it right. If that was the case, then more copies of that game would've been sold against something like Half Life, that sold somewhere in the region of 8.5 million copies against PD's 2.5 million.
And what about space sims? You telling me that something like Freescape, I-War or X are bettered by space sims that appeared on consoles? Yeah right...
Driving games are a tricky one. I tend to prefer them on PC because they can play at a much higher quality setting than what the console can give, providing me with a better gaming experience. Is that incorrect then? Well, no, of course not.
I don't have to though, I just have to like the game more, which in the case of the games I play, I do. Does it make me right full-stop, well of course not. But it doesn't make you right too, which you are hell bent on trying to prove that you are.
Which is exactly what I've been trying to say. I'm not here to argue that I'm right and you're wrong. You really should step back, relax and realise that the the gaming world doesn't revolve around you, or anyone, and that what you think is the best may not be the best for everyone else around you, and you should stop trying to argue your point.
No, he said
"The gaming platform of choice for me now though is PC gaming,"
which is subjective, but then went on to say objectively:
"since the types of games I like most (FPS, space sim, driving games) tend to be much better on PC (and far easier to control) than on console."
which is wrong, at least as far as first person shooters go.
Woah there! You can't now backtrack your original statement that when I said that FPS, driving and space sims tend to be much better on PC than console, that I was incorrect! That's just trying to move the goalposts to suit your needs.
Note that I made bold a part of that sentence. It's the same wording that I used in my previous post. Notice how I didn't say they are better, but tend to be better, which from the sheer number of FPS games on PC (against consoles), and the sales of, would back up my thoughts on the subject.
Yes..
For him, they tend to be much better. He can decide his own preference without having to have a fight over it...
Edit: And outta here. Not my argument! And pointless...
*ducks!
thwap! ;)
I can't wait for a pc or console version, either of which will be better than the other.
Here we go again.
I've just done a search, and found the following:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12686
and
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13659
Where both times you try to argue your opinion as facts, and fail dismally.
But to answer your question:
1) Sales are not representative of quality. As I said in one of the above threads:
"Remember Steps? The cover "band". They sold a ton of records, and were voted the best band of the twentieth century, at the Millenium celebrations on the BBC. Popularity and sales mean little with regards to quality. Look at The Da Vinci Code, a terrible book, but it sold sixty million (I think that's what I heard)."
2) There were and are millions of PC gamers in the world when Half-Life was released. But when PD was released, the N64 was all but commercially dead and most N64 owners had jumped ship to the Dreamcast or whatever. Plus PD needed the expensive and quite rare 4MB memory add-on pack to work.
In short, there were not too many N64 owners left, and of those, many didn't have access to the memory pak.
I have no idea how many gaming PCs there were at the time of HL's release, but I think it's fair to say that a larger proportion of N64 owners bought PD than PC owners brought HL.
Not, as I repeat, that sales indicate quality.
I never mentioned Space sims. I don't play them, so I can't judge them.
Quality? You mean graphics, presumably?
If you prefer graphics over gameplay then I can see why you didn't like Goldeneye.
No, but you would if you could. You can't so you ignore the issue instead.
You don't have to perpetuate the myth that PC FPSs are better than console FPSs, but you do. But when it comes to facts, oh suddenly it's not worth the time.
Liking something more does not make it "much better" [to quote your own words], despite what you might think.
You started this with the PC fanboyish statement. I see enough of that on other sites. And I asked you again to name one game, JUST ONE, that would prove your point, and you can't do it. You know it. I know it. But you won't retract what you said, though, will you?
I'm correcting your fanboy lie. I realise that the world does not revolve around me, but then I'm not the one who makes (incorrect) statements and then won't admit that he's wrong when he's shown to be wrong.
In another thread I made an erroneous statement about graphics cards' usage of their RAM. You corrected me, and I accepted it. I didn't try to wiggle out of it, or post "I'm walking away from this thread" or whatever. I was wrong, I was corrected, and I accepted it.
Now you've made a statement, which if true is easily provable by you. So I ask you, either post your proof, or admit you were wrong.
Another thread ruined by ewgf. Cheers.
Advanced Lawnmower Simulator.
Coward. You either had to provide proof (by typing a whole name of a game, oooooohhhhhh that'd take you forever), or admit that you are wrong, and you can't do either.
And I've not ruined this thread. It's not me who made a statement then wasn't man enough to admit he was wrong when pulled up over it.
In point of fact, it's people like you who ruin threads with your fanboy bias.
Edit: I retract the "coward" comment, as I don't want to descend to insults. Anyway, everyone can judge you by your behaviour themselves (or is it lack of behaviour, if you refrain from doing something, i.e. providing proof?)
I almost bought a lifesize cut out of Doctor Who and Amy, but I don't have the space for them.
Anyway, back on topic, everyone likes Batty don't they?
Just don't mention level 3!
On SNES, the Zelda game is a bit pants. Maybe I needed to be a teenager and thus blinded by my peers enthusiasm but that game is just downright dull. Earthbound, however, is an excellent game. So you're wrong about that one, ewgf.
MarioCart on SNES is in no way whatsoever better than the N64 version, said N64 version being slightly better than the DS version. Wrong again then?
Perfect Dark is ok, but it's a bit run-of-the-mill, and certainly doesn't stand up against the real classic FPS games - Quake and Doom stand out here as being far, far better. "Oh, but PD isn't about shooting and ****, it's also about Stealth!" to which I'll just retort with "Thief 1, Thief 2 and Dark Mod" and leave it at that. PD was very much ignored by the majority of fans for good reason - we had better games to play.
D.
Oi! I was saying you were right! :o
the thing with the later mariokart games isnt just cos theyre better, its the characters and difficulty, the snes had the difficulty pitched perfectly, the characters always had their own little characteristics and differences.
also on the snes you had the short cuts, which get less and less as the games proceed through the years :(
on the snes me and my mates had hours, days and weeks of fun trying to perfect shortcut jumps, something that disappeared as the games came onto later machines :(
thats why id still say the snes version is the pinnacle
Yeah, I see where you're coming from but ... Because this thread is the "opinions stated as fact" thread, I can see why you're wrong too.
For you, the SNES version is the best because you had the most fun with that version with your mates. I never played on a SNES (ever) so my first encounter with Mariokart SNES was only recently, and to be honest it's not a good game at all when compared to later versions.
My, there really are some misguided people in this thread! FPS better on a console? roffle.
D.
by the way dude what servers spin and speccy on these days?, i fancy a mooch, i checked astrolink and i was the only person in lol
edit:- im in now :) well #speccy
Oh were you? Well, in that case, you can give me a free 'thwap'. Deal? :D
Reading through the thread I get the impression that if someone disagrees with ewgf's choice of favourite games then they must by definition be wrong.
The answer to the question the thread posed is unanswerable as every one has different tastes.
What I don't want to see is emotions running high and unwanted comments made leading to bannings and suspensions, so can everyone please put a little thought into their posts before hitting "Submit Reply".
Thank you, I totally 100% agree with every aspect of this post of yours. I don't want to argue, I don't feel like I have to defend or prove anything. As I said in my previous posts, I don't assume I'm right with my opinions, but no-one else should think that means they are totally right too. There is no right or wrong with this sort of thread. That's all I want to say on this particular part of the thread now.
Now... what about Saboteur? :D
I'll draw a line under it if you will.
Anyway, I never really liked Saboteur, but I didn't dislike it, just wasn't a big fan. I don't think I ever played the second one.
Wrong!
Trust me, you're wrong.
I find that gameplay is better than eyecandy, but meh, YMMV. If you like games simply because they have better graphics then you have my condolences. You can clearly see how you're wrong here.
I don't like to say it, but I agree with you here. PD really was a very dull, uninspiring game. Certainly not a patch on DeusEx.
D.
The thing I found most frustrating with all the Mario Kart games was the feeling of cheatingbastness you got from it when you were doing quite well and then at the last turn you'd get hit by EVERY F*@%ING WEAPON in the game putting you last. It's not a bug or anything, but it just makes you go mental with anger!