I agree that all the available information still needs to be organized and maybe added to the Timex wiki, but the Timex FDD and its clones never became popular outside of Portugal and Poland. It "suffered" from the same problem as the +3: 3" drives. Our Polish friends made it "better" by replacing one or two of the drives with 5 1/4 ones, but it never became as popular as, for example, the Plus
Problem with Timex FDD was not the disk drives and the drives doesn't suffer the same fate as Amstrad +3 drives. Hitachi disk drives doesn't have belts, they are electrically identical to 5 1/4" drives and there was 3" disks on the market. They might have been more expensive than 3,5". It's price (the system) and MS-DOS killed them as IBM-PC clones became more and more cheaper.
Even so it is possible to connect a DSDD 3.5" drive with the proper adapters and use the undocumented 640K format. Imagine a 4 disk drive system each disk with 640K. Direct access to 2.5MB of data on a computer with 64K RAM :D
As for clones, Unipolbrit didn't made clones of FDD, the simply "redesigned" the 3 boxes into 1 only box.
It was exported to the U.S. but I only know two people who have one.
It was exported to the US but not sold as Timex. That is one thing that a lot of people doesn't know. In the US the system was sold under the name of Zebra Systems. So Timex FDD is sold in the US as Zebra FDD in silver boxes (I have 1 silver drive I found in Portugal!), in Portugal and Poland they are sold in black boxes. This is to match TS2068 in US and TC2048 in Portugal/Poland. Later Black TC2068 appears but they are mainly sold as "word processors" with Timeword word processor cartridge (it have support for FDD and tape load/save).
Timex FDD3000 is sold in the US as Zebra FDD3000 by just glueing a sticker over TIMEX logo.
If someone wants to learn more about it, Encarnado is the man.
If someone wants to know more about the actual hardware, Jos? Leandro is the person to talk to.
John Elliot already analyzed the data structure of Timex TOS disks.
I have hope that I'll see this Timex hardware emulated one day, but I'm not holding my breath.
Yarek knows a lot of Timex hardware too. He even make a new OS for the Timex FDD!
TO: Zx Bruno & Encarnado... My sympathy goes out to you both... you must feel very lonely here in WOS!!!... But seriously though... I think you both make good points, but I would hesitate to suggest that it is "lack of interest" that holds development back, so much as a sheer lack of knowledge concerning these peripherals...
It's more than a peripheral, it's a Z80 computer! It CAN boot ANY OS made for it! Imagine really booting a speccy from disk! :D
I can honestly say with hand on heart that I HAVE NEVER EVEN HEARD of a Timex FDD 3000, or TOS operating system for the ZX systems... And I bet that I am not alone in this. What we have here is not a lack of interest, but a BIG information gap... I would be surprised if large numbers of the English speaking ZX scene (UK & US) had even heard of the FDD 3000... I am amazed, quite frankly, about how little I know about ZX based systems ourside of the UK. Im starting to hear and learn more about the Russian scene but the Portuguese and Polish scene are something of a mystery to me, and probably to many other WOS users... The truth is, we here simply don't hear enough about such systems...
Timex was unable to sell on Sinclair Market, so UK never heard of it. US was not on Sinclair market, it was Sinclair that asked for help... to Timex to "invade". Timex Computer Corp (USA) was killed in 1983 so all Timex support ended in the US but Timex of Portugal continued research, finished and fixed most Timex hardware. Zebra Systems made the connection to import Timex hardware made in Portugal to the US and even TC2068 was to be imported to the US and was nicknamed the "Silver Avenger" to end the compatibility problem TS2068 had with Spectrum software.
Russia had it's politics so no one went there, they simply picked some computers and reverse engineered them to make clones.
I had to google referrences to the Timex FDD just to try to understand and follow what you were all talking about on this thread. I didn't even see any pointers or links or hypertext markers pointing in this thread to help guide me. We were all talking about the FDD Timex system, and even then, no-one thought to post any links... why is that?... Is it because there is no information out there?... And that is precisely the problem, no one knows anything about this, and anyone who does, isn't pointing to information about this system:
Maybe my bad... or Bruno because he asked it first :)
So i have a question, where can i find info about your desired peripheral?
You can make a website with al info you gather so far. Then people will get a better idear off what it is were you are looking for. Maybe you have it already , but its not in your signature for example.
with the right info on yr page it might be a nice 'teaser' for a nerd in need off new explorations ???
It have a 2K ROM... I think I have it but probably lost in a CD I burned +10 years ago...
This ROM initializes the computer and loads Sector 0... just like a IBM-PC does.
there was a discussion about a COMMON disk type of DSK.
If you want to READ a disk you only need to know the right format , aint it?
so when need a kind off general-disc-formatting-key and a program which can and will format and write in any off the give format-keys.
Is that a possible idear to overcome ALL different disc-drive systems?
Special commands are off course ROM depending, different story there ...
perhaps see a floppy as a harddisc with only 1 or 2 heads(=sides) and only one cycle, leaving tracks and sectors to be handeled by the interface
Timex FDD/FDD3000 uses 1 head disk drive. Up to 4 drives can be connected to the controller/computer.
Disks formated on TOS format contains TOS so any disk can boot the system, even the undocumented 640K format.
I know I have disk images made with Teledisk and Teledisk disk format configuration but it might be lost on a CD I burned +10 years ago...
What might save it that I used 3.5" disks on my FDD, so it might be easy to copy them instead of connecting a 3" drive to a PC.
The computer doesn't have video circuitry, it has no means to output to a monitor or TV by itself, so it needs another computer for output (ZX/Timex/TT3000(CP/M only*)).
You can get FDD3000 service manual from this link: http://www.retroreview.com/fdd3000_service_manual.pdf
It even have the BIOS dissassembled (or is it TOS?)!
*TOS was the OS to use Timex FDD with Sinclair Basic. CP/M worked on a different manner:
-A monitor program is needed to interface CP/M running on FDD System if a ZX/Timex computer was used: First boot the computer and the FDD with that monitor program, then CP/M disk is inserted and FDD3000 is reset to boot CP/M
-Timex Terminal 3000 (TT3000) is a computer with that monitor program built-in powered by the FDD3000: Just insert the CP/M disk to boot.
Now I think I have covered everything I think it would be asked. If anyone have questions, please ask and I'll try to answer.
I thoughed it was only the drive buts the computer, aint it?
thats a bit more to emulate.
one more evolutionairy sinclair branche
That's why I said today computers can run 2x Z80 emulations :)
It's almost as emulating a network of Spectrum+IF1 but instead of connecting 2 Spectrums, It's connecting a Spectrum to another computer running another OS (TOS or CP/M).
So this FDD system was essentially a computer without video or keyboard, requiring a spectrum/timex/or other computer/console to act as a keyboard and provide the processing for the video output?..
I guess its not quite as complicated as emulating two entire systems (2x z80's), if one of them is really only acting as a keyboard and providing the video output and no more... but thats the question though, ain't it: Did the plugged in Spectrum/timex/console serve any purpose other than video and keyboard services?... If it did, then yes, it would be a beast to emulate, but if not, then maybe its not that complicated?...
So this FDD system was essentially a computer without video or keyboard, requiring a spectrum/timex/or other computer/console to act as a keyboard and provide the processing for the video output?..
Yes and... no.
Yes when using CP/M because CP/M can't run on a 48K RAM machine
No <- read next part
I guess its not quite as complicated as emulating two entire systems (2x z80's), if one of them is really only acting as a keyboard and providing the video output and no more... but thats the question though, ain't it: Did the plugged in Spectrum/timex/console serve any purpose other than video and keyboard services?... If it did, then yes, it would be a beast to emulate, but if not, then maybe its not that complicated?...
If using TOS, FDD provides disk access to Sinclair Basic. You can load programs (Basic or machine code) to the spectrum/Timex computer from disk and save any data on disk.
If using CP/M, then yes, the computer only acts a terminal to the FDD system. Timex of Portugal made a keyboard they called Timex Terminal 3000. This is not a "keyboard", it have a Z80 computer with a Timex SCLD inside. This "keyboard" do the same as the spectrum/Timex, provides input (keyboard) and output (video) to the CP/M running on FDD.
In fact, if the purpose of emulating the Timex FDD was only running CP/M, then I believe it would be easy and almost not necessary because a +3 can run CP/M (was it ever done on emulation?).
But what we seek is the emulation of the FDD running TOS.
You never used TOS but if you would, it would feel like MS-DOS on a Spectrum!
It might not be a good idea to mention M$ when you're trying to make something look good. ;)
We need a video of the TOS in action. I don't have any FDD here in the U.S. so I can't do it for now.
Encarnado, since what we're really asking for is the TOS emulation, not the emulation of the FDD domputer, how about we create a new topic and talk about the TOS, the disk drive and how it compares to others that are already being emulated?
I started a new thread so we can talk a little bit more about this.
Of course cp/m has been emulated. McLeodIdeafix from Speccy.org has used it and posted screenshots, and WOS has some type of cp/m available for download which isn't denied and was uploaded to the archive a few months ago. But I think these are specifically for the +3. I'm continuing this sub-topic via the other one I opened (don't want to fill up Phil's thread with Timex FDD stuff).
the Locomotive version of CP/M Plus is denied, but there is a port of CP/M 2.2 available on wos too. They both run fine emulated btw (just don't ask how I tested CP/M Plus... :p)
the Locomotive version of CP/M Plus is denied, but there is a port of CP/M 2.2 available on wos too. They both run fine emulated btw (just don't ask how I tested CP/M Plus... :p)
I used to use CP/M quite a bit in the business world before DOS came along. Why is it denied? Is CP/M still in commercial use?
Another feature I think is not present at the moment: a "smart" clipboard option. Something like this: if I copy a text (namely a piece of BASIC code from an example from this forum) to the clipboard, I'd like to have a "paste as BASIC" option, so the copied code is translated to keystrokes and sent to the emulator as if the user would be typing it.
I've requested something similar before, but was told "If you want to do that you can use Basin.". I know about Basin, but full control over the 48K editor would be much better. I would like to be able to use the mouse to cut, copy and paste between the O.S. and the 48K editor.
I believe UnReal Spectrum emulator already has this cut & paste option... And dumping the keystrokes to keyboard buffer is exactly what it does... Its very handy!!... I agree that such a feature would be handy in fuse and its a shame that UnReal seems to be the only emulator that does this so far as I know...
While it may shock you ZnorXman, there are actually more important things in my life than your messages. Deal with it.
Ah, the message is yes, from me but it's a question from one of the WoS Mods, re. in particular the post you reported.
Your reporting of a post is important to the operation of this site and when further information is needed, then one is bound to try to communicate with those who do the reporting.
Ah, the message is yes, from me but it's a question from one of the WoS Mods, re. in particular the post you reported.
Your reporting of a post is important to the operation of this site and when further information is needed, then one is bound to try to communicate with those who do the reporting.
Thank you for your continued help.
Could you confirm the amount of time between when I reported the post and when you messaged me?
As soon as I saw it and was able to respond to it.
Could you confirm the gap between me reporting the post and you seeing my report? [Edit: I see that's done] Given that was of the order of a few days [Edit: two days], could you explain why it's important to respond quicker than that?
Could you confirm the gap between me reporting the post and you seeing my report? [Edit: I see that's done] Given that was of the order of a few days [Edit: two days], could you explain why it's important to respond quicker than that?
Thank you.
A response is important, I completely agree there, a quick one even better.
I apoligise to you that in this case my response to you was two days later than your reported post.
Now, whether my PM to you was sent to you a few moments after you reported the post, or a few moments after it was viewed does not detract from the content nor importance of both your report and my subsequent PM to you.
EDIT: Thank you for the PM, much appreciated.
As a complete aside, Dr. Kendall your (and other WoSser's) reporting of a post is important. There have been cases where further information is needed, and it was so in this case. Thank you for your assistance.
Please improve the joystick support and settings. I have here the Xbox controller S connected via Speedlink USB adapter and your emulator is incapable of using anything else than left analogue stick and ABXY buttons. In the setting you don't read the controller-specific features, you have some general buttons 1-10 - but still they do not work - I tried remapping buttons 1-4 to be Sinclair 2 joiystick 1-4 keys and it did not work.
So ideally, your emulator should:
1. automaticly support all the functions of a specific controller with full ability to map them onto ZX Spectrum keys / joystick events - in the case of Xbox controller: left analogue stick + right analogue stick + digital pad + 4 basic buttons + 4 additional buttons + left and right analogue triggers + left and right analogue joystick push-buttons...
2. get rid of those generic masks like 10 buttons when for instance a user has no device connected...
Please improve the joystick support and settings...
I guess you are using win32 port. Currently win32 detect 1 axis and 4 buttons, whereas linux detect 1 axis and 10 buttons. There is room for improvement.
Comments
Problem with Timex FDD was not the disk drives and the drives doesn't suffer the same fate as Amstrad +3 drives. Hitachi disk drives doesn't have belts, they are electrically identical to 5 1/4" drives and there was 3" disks on the market. They might have been more expensive than 3,5". It's price (the system) and MS-DOS killed them as IBM-PC clones became more and more cheaper.
Even so it is possible to connect a DSDD 3.5" drive with the proper adapters and use the undocumented 640K format. Imagine a 4 disk drive system each disk with 640K. Direct access to 2.5MB of data on a computer with 64K RAM :D
As for clones, Unipolbrit didn't made clones of FDD, the simply "redesigned" the 3 boxes into 1 only box.
It was exported to the US but not sold as Timex. That is one thing that a lot of people doesn't know. In the US the system was sold under the name of Zebra Systems. So Timex FDD is sold in the US as Zebra FDD in silver boxes (I have 1 silver drive I found in Portugal!), in Portugal and Poland they are sold in black boxes. This is to match TS2068 in US and TC2048 in Portugal/Poland. Later Black TC2068 appears but they are mainly sold as "word processors" with Timeword word processor cartridge (it have support for FDD and tape load/save).
Timex FDD3000 is sold in the US as Zebra FDD3000 by just glueing a sticker over TIMEX logo.
Yarek knows a lot of Timex hardware too. He even make a new OS for the Timex FDD!
It's more than a peripheral, it's a Z80 computer! It CAN boot ANY OS made for it! Imagine really booting a speccy from disk! :D
Timex was unable to sell on Sinclair Market, so UK never heard of it. US was not on Sinclair market, it was Sinclair that asked for help... to Timex to "invade". Timex Computer Corp (USA) was killed in 1983 so all Timex support ended in the US but Timex of Portugal continued research, finished and fixed most Timex hardware. Zebra Systems made the connection to import Timex hardware made in Portugal to the US and even TC2068 was to be imported to the US and was nicknamed the "Silver Avenger" to end the compatibility problem TS2068 had with Spectrum software.
Russia had it's politics so no one went there, they simply picked some computers and reverse engineered them to make clones.
Maybe my bad... or Bruno because he asked it first :)
You can find a squematic here:
http://timex.comboios.info/Timex/fdd3000squematics.jpg
Info for the Interface (the part that connects to edge connector on Timex/ZX):
http://timex.comboios.info/interface.html
TOS user manual:
http://timex.comboios.info/tmxtechfdd.html
Technical info on TOS:
http://timex.comboios.info/tos.html
Because FDD3000 is a 64K RAM computer it can run CP/M (FDD is the same but with only 16K RAM. It is upgradable)
http://timex.comboios.info/tmxtechcpm.html
It have a 2K ROM... I think I have it but probably lost in a CD I burned +10 years ago...
This ROM initializes the computer and loads Sector 0... just like a IBM-PC does.
Timex FDD/FDD3000 uses 1 head disk drive. Up to 4 drives can be connected to the controller/computer.
Disks formated on TOS format contains TOS so any disk can boot the system, even the undocumented 640K format.
I know I have disk images made with Teledisk and Teledisk disk format configuration but it might be lost on a CD I burned +10 years ago...
What might save it that I used 3.5" disks on my FDD, so it might be easy to copy them instead of connecting a 3" drive to a PC.
The computer doesn't have video circuitry, it has no means to output to a monitor or TV by itself, so it needs another computer for output (ZX/Timex/TT3000(CP/M only*)).
You can get FDD3000 service manual from this link:
http://www.retroreview.com/fdd3000_service_manual.pdf
It even have the BIOS dissassembled (or is it TOS?)!
*TOS was the OS to use Timex FDD with Sinclair Basic. CP/M worked on a different manner:
-A monitor program is needed to interface CP/M running on FDD System if a ZX/Timex computer was used: First boot the computer and the FDD with that monitor program, then CP/M disk is inserted and FDD3000 is reset to boot CP/M
-Timex Terminal 3000 (TT3000) is a computer with that monitor program built-in powered by the FDD3000: Just insert the CP/M disk to boot.
Now I think I have covered everything I think it would be asked. If anyone have questions, please ask and I'll try to answer.
That's why I said today computers can run 2x Z80 emulations :)
It's almost as emulating a network of Spectrum+IF1 but instead of connecting 2 Spectrums, It's connecting a Spectrum to another computer running another OS (TOS or CP/M).
http://www.spectrum.8bit.pl/menu/menu.html
Click on FDD3000 link
I guess its not quite as complicated as emulating two entire systems (2x z80's), if one of them is really only acting as a keyboard and providing the video output and no more... but thats the question though, ain't it: Did the plugged in Spectrum/timex/console serve any purpose other than video and keyboard services?... If it did, then yes, it would be a beast to emulate, but if not, then maybe its not that complicated?...
Yes and... no.
Yes when using CP/M because CP/M can't run on a 48K RAM machine
No <- read next part
If using TOS, FDD provides disk access to Sinclair Basic. You can load programs (Basic or machine code) to the spectrum/Timex computer from disk and save any data on disk.
If using CP/M, then yes, the computer only acts a terminal to the FDD system. Timex of Portugal made a keyboard they called Timex Terminal 3000. This is not a "keyboard", it have a Z80 computer with a Timex SCLD inside. This "keyboard" do the same as the spectrum/Timex, provides input (keyboard) and output (video) to the CP/M running on FDD.
In fact, if the purpose of emulating the Timex FDD was only running CP/M, then I believe it would be easy and almost not necessary because a +3 can run CP/M (was it ever done on emulation?).
But what we seek is the emulation of the FDD running TOS.
You never used TOS but if you would, it would feel like MS-DOS on a Spectrum!
We need a video of the TOS in action. I don't have any FDD here in the U.S. so I can't do it for now.
Encarnado, since what we're really asking for is the TOS emulation, not the emulation of the FDD domputer, how about we create a new topic and talk about the TOS, the disk drive and how it compares to others that are already being emulated?
I started a new thread so we can talk a little bit more about this.
I used to use CP/M quite a bit in the business world before DOS came along. Why is it denied? Is CP/M still in commercial use?
Paddy
CP/M isn't denied. However the Locomotive Software port is.
PK you have a PM waiting and your response is greatly appreciated, thank you.
Ah, the message is yes, from me but it's a question from one of the WoS Mods, re. in particular the post you reported.
Your reporting of a post is important to the operation of this site and when further information is needed, then one is bound to try to communicate with those who do the reporting.
Thank you for your continued help.
Could you confirm the amount of time between when I reported the post and when you messaged me?
Thank you for your continued help.
Absolutely!
As soon as I saw it and was able to respond to it.
You are welcome, and likewise, thank you.
EDIT: I see your report is posted 06-05-2011 at 03:11, and my message sent to you was 06-07-2011 at 04:28.
Could you confirm the gap between me reporting the post and you seeing my report? [Edit: I see that's done] Given that was of the order of a few days [Edit: two days], could you explain why it's important to respond quicker than that?
Thank you.
A response is important, I completely agree there, a quick one even better.
I apoligise to you that in this case my response to you was two days later than your reported post.
Now, whether my PM to you was sent to you a few moments after you reported the post, or a few moments after it was viewed does not detract from the content nor importance of both your report and my subsequent PM to you.
EDIT: Thank you for the PM, much appreciated.
As a complete aside, Dr. Kendall your (and other WoSser's) reporting of a post is important. There have been cases where further information is needed, and it was so in this case. Thank you for your assistance.
Yeah, we're all good :-)
So ideally, your emulator should:
1. automaticly support all the functions of a specific controller with full ability to map them onto ZX Spectrum keys / joystick events - in the case of Xbox controller: left analogue stick + right analogue stick + digital pad + 4 basic buttons + 4 additional buttons + left and right analogue triggers + left and right analogue joystick push-buttons...
2. get rid of those generic masks like 10 buttons when for instance a user has no device connected...
I guess you are using win32 port. Currently win32 detect 1 axis and 4 buttons, whereas linux detect 1 axis and 10 buttons. There is room for improvement.