RF output instability

edited May 2012 in Hardware
Hello!
Now i need help :)

One of my rubber keys (48K) behaves a bit strangely on behave of RF TV output.

When booted the picture is stable.
Then i load Exolon and the title screen (with menu) is good.
Then, when i press 1 (start game) the picture becomes unstable and fuzzy, especially the lower part.
When i move around the main character the picture stabilizes.

SO, it seems like stability of the picture depends on some statistical data of a shown image (brightness or color, i don't know).

ANy idea how to fix it? Is it a dead cap somewhere?

Regards,
Artem
Post edited by ArtemKuchin on

Comments

  • edited May 2012
    Just as an idea:
    The mean level of (a part of) the video signal is used to create a determined ('black') level. The synchronising pulses are recognised in relation to this mean level. So a different screen might somewhat change the syncs.
    But such minor changes should still be inside the normal catch range of a TV/monitor from the eighties.
    Did you try with a different TV.
  • edited May 2012
    No, i did not try it because i don't have it :)

    I checked the RF of the output and it is 594-595 instead of 591 (channel 36 UK). Any way to adjust it? And why is it shifted?
  • edited May 2012
    If you are about to change caps its better to change all of them and not just the two on the far left part of the board which are responsible for the rf picture.

    Also the two ZTX313 transistors right under the rf metal kit could solve it if replaced. Done it many times and I have seen good results.
  • edited May 2012
    Here is the video of what's going on
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyID-WNpO-k
  • edited May 2012
    I guess you have tried it on another tv and the problem remains right?

    You can begin by changing the two electrolytic caps on the far left part of the board which is the easiest thing to do.
    If after that the problem is still there then replace the two ztx313 transistors under the rf modulator kit. If that doesn't help either then I would go for the whole modulator kit (actually I've never come across a bad modulator kit but others have).

    Also a worn out 7805 is known to affect picture quality.
  • edited May 2012
    Thank you, i'll try it in the specified order.

    I cannot test it on another tv because i don't have it, but, i have plenty of spectrums (rubber key and +) and all of then work fine with this tv.

    What interesting to me is the frequency shift. What defined the base channel frequency? Is this circuit inside the module or the frequency is defined by external components relative to the rf module?
  • edited May 2012
    I'll give the order from easier to find to harder, could be any of these...

    - Capacitors
    - 7805
    - 2x ZTX313 or equivalent
    - Modulator kit

    The frequency shift is not uncommon specialy on aged parts, or maybe someone chenged it. You can change the frequency by twisting the iron core of the coil in the modulator kit. There is a hole for that on the lower right of the modulator kit's cover. Be careful not to damage it.

    ps
    You can always perform the composite modification and be over with RF.
  • edited May 2012
    I have a similar fault with one of my 48k+ machines, the RF signal is ok until things start to warm up.

    I had another machine with almost exactly the same fault and did the composite mod on it, but not before hurling the modulator's guts in the bin. I want to keep one machine boxed and as original as possible, but is it even possible for an average electronics enthusiast to repair or replace a modulator - or should I just get over myself and do the composite mod on it?.
  • edited May 2012
    I would start by taking the composite output and testing that first. Although something is bothering me about the way it behaves on the youtube video...
  • edited May 2012
    I want to keep one machine boxed and as original as possible,
    If that means "keep things working that are difficult to keep working": there are limits to that. Once you hit those, you might as well go ahead & do some modifications (that are invisible from the outside!) to make your life easier.

    When you can't keep something working in original state, all you have is a nice box to look at. At that point, does it make much difference what's inside? :-?
    but is it even possible for an average electronics enthusiast to repair or replace a modulator
    Increasingly difficult to find a replacement modulator. But have you ever looked inside one? Some resistors, capacitors, coils, and HF transistors on a carefully laid out circuit board. With suitable replacement for those transistors, it wouldn't surprise me if a modulator could be repaired indefinitely (like a classic car). Most modulators I own, are basically used as mechanical support for the cinch connector... :-D
    or should I just get over myself and do the composite mod on it?.
    Well... it is very easy. The most 'daunting' part is opening up the Spectrum - and the related keyboard connector issues (if that Speccy still has the original keyboard foil, that is). Apart from that, there's little reason not to do it.
  • edited May 2012
    Well, while i don't have the needed caps and waiting for them to arrive i tried adjusting the coul on a modulator on another speccy. Well, pieces of it are now all over my table. It does not want to turn and is is very very fragile.
    Tried to turn it with little force on the speccy i'm tried to fix originally and it does not turn. I don't force it anymore.
    So, DOES IT TURN T ALL? I've found docs confirming that turning it shold change the frequency, but it seems to be stuck in all modulators i have (and i have plenty, like 10 48k of different issues).
  • edited May 2012
    Winston wrote: »
    I would start by taking the composite output and testing that first. Although something is bothering me about the way it behaves on the youtube video...


    Tried it on another tv today. This tv a little more stable, but still have the problem.
    What exactly is bothering you?
  • edited May 2012
    Well, while i don't have the needed caps and waiting for them to arrive i tried adjusting the coul on a modulator on another speccy. Well, pieces of it are now all over my table. It does not want to turn and is is very very fragile.
    Tried to turn it with little force on the speccy i'm tried to fix originally and it does not turn. I don't force it anymore.
    So, DOES IT TURN T ALL? I've found docs confirming that turning it shold change the frequency, but it seems to be stuck in all modulators i have (and i have plenty, like 10 48k of different issues).

    Or maybe you're not using the right tool to turn them. Be careful, if you ruin the coil then the composite mod would be your only solution.
  • edited May 2012
    gtsamour wrote: »
    Or maybe you're not using the right tool to turn them. Be careful, if you ruin the coil then the composite mod would be your only solution.

    Well, maybe. I did ruin one coil already so that speccy goes composite for sure.. or i'll put a modulator modules from a broken 16k board.
    Anyway. What is the right tool for it then?
  • edited May 2012
    Prefferably something made out of hard plastic and shaped to fit and do the job.
    Personally i've done it using a small flat screw driver that fits the slot but veeery carefully.
  • edited May 2012
    Well, i also did it with a small flat screwdriver. Ruined one coil and could not turn another other w/o forcing and stopped, because did not want to ruin it too.
    SHould be turned counterclockwise?
  • edited May 2012
    Normaly it could be turned both ways.... but thats weird, I don't remember having any trouble with the modulator's coil... and I have many speccys...
  • edited May 2012
    Okay. Let's try to make it clear.
    The coil is actually inside a platic case, a platic tube sticks up and the rotating part is inside it more like at the bottom. The rotating part has a square dent in the middle for the rotating tool and also something wobbly sticks up from this rotating part. It seems to be soft and it's kind of rubber.

    Is my description correct?
  • edited May 2012
    Okay. Let's try to make it clear.
    The coil is actually inside a platic case, a platic tube sticks up and the rotating part is inside it more like at the bottom. The rotating part has a square dent in the middle for the rotating tool and also something wobbly sticks up from this rotating part. It seems to be soft and it's kind of rubber.

    Is my description correct?
    Yes it is correct. The wobbly part is ment to press the core against the wall of the plastic tube so that the core will not wobble or travel on its own. It may have become sticky or hard after 30 years.
    That coil is part of the tuned circuit which determines the UHF channel. It was quite normal to adjust the Spectrum channel as it might conflict with your favourite TV channel. Even with a broken core the circuit is tuned and the signal most probably still somewhere in the UHF band.
Sign In or Register to comment.