On 2005-03-25 20:05, Dunny wrote:
Head over to alt.binaries.comp.sinclair (the CSS binaries group) where every month or so a complete archive is posted...
Now includes the Odin/Thor too.
D.
A wise man once said....
Nauwtie nauwtie... veery naughty. :D
alban, it appears you are talking through your arse here. I'm yet to see anyone agree with you.
Sure, it's a pain when companies deny distribution. But why the hell should they allow free download of their property when they feel it is still profitable?
If all the software developers had given their software away in the 80s, rather than sold it, the Spectrum/home computer scene would have died a death.
Do you expect Sony, Nintendo and the like to suddenly start "giving" away Mario, Gran Turismo, GTA and Tomb Raider in a couple of decades? Of course not, and why should they?!
I have over the last couple of days read the debate going on here and to be honest I just can't see where Alban is coming from.
Why he think that throwing all his toys out of his pram is going to persuade companies to release old games into the community is beyond me. The tried and proven way is to work with them and get their trust and support.
To be honest Alban if your recent posts on this subject are the way you feel and in your opinion the best way to go forward then I feel you're in the wrong community.
On 2005-03-31 01:17, karingal wrote:
I have over the last couple of days read the debate going on here and to be honest I just can't see where Alban is coming from.
Why he think that throwing all his toys out of his pram is going to persuade companies to release old games into the community is beyond me. The tried and proven way is to work with them and get their trust and support.
To be honest Alban if your recent posts on this subject are the way you feel and in your opinion the best way to go forward then I feel you're in the wrong community.
Well, hang on a bit. It is possible that we are experiencing a smidgeon of a language barrier here. It seems that Alban is actually putting forth a fairly complex thought here but we are cutting him off before he can actually put his full thoughts down.
If I am reading Alban correctly then it seems to me that he is actually putting forth two arguments in one philosophical, yet somewhat anarchic context:
A) He is law-abiding (I too have deleted programs after I heard that they were "illegal" or interfered with copyrights.)
B) He wants to revive old games/programs by using them and is frustrated with the conflict within him because he also wants to be law-abiding.
I can totally see his point(s) but all in all the discussion becomes pointless because we KNOW that we can't do anything about the legality of these particular circumstances i.e. copyright holders have said "NO DISTRIBUTION" ... we could continue to discuss this on a more philosophical level but we wouldn't technically accomplish anything except maybe better understand each others points of view (if the discussion were properly conducted) ...
On 2005-03-31 07:01, Skarpo wrote:
[
Well, hang on a bit. It is possible that we are experiencing a smidgeon of a language barrier here. It seems that Alban is actually putting forth a fairly complex thought here but we are cutting him off before he can actually put his full thoughts down.
If I am reading Alban correctly then it seems to me that he is actually putting forth two arguments in one philosophical, yet somewhat anarchic context:
Hear, hear !!!
That`s what I woulda liked to have said if I was better with words, Alban obviously feels strongly about this, if he`s that strong with his convictions that he would or has seriously deleted Mame due to copyright violations then I for one respect his beliefs, and the fact that he`ll shout them out, even when he knows he`s gonna get jumped on, then, haha, good on him... whether I agree with those beliefs though... is another matter..
Read through his remarks again and theyre totally over the top and no one else really seems to be fully agreeing with him.
As for deleting MAME again i think thats OTT. Its not hurting anyone playing those games most of which are as old as Speccy games. If thats the case why doesnt he delete most of his Speccy games as a huge percentage havent been allowed for distribution, its just a case of the people not being able to be contacted. So 'surely' if we're acting all saintly then those people should delete those games as theyre currently in 'limbo', eg not banned but not approved.
Its 2005, theres much much worse things out there and stresses rather than thinking 'i'll be an angel and delete MAME as its naughty'. You'll be helping grannies cross the road next and join the church.
i think its a big of a language barrier plus albans latin passion/spirit i think, you know where they shout in the streets and stuff :) it would be nice to know as with anything in life why and not just because. as for kendalls troll comment, alban is a big contributer on wos chat and isnt just a troll who pops on here for rant. you might want to read your own crap that you shovel half the time. and you can get off your high horse mr ?30 foggy lee. thank you :)
On 2005-03-25 20:05, Dunny wrote:
Head over to alt.binaries.comp.sinclair (the CSS binaries group) where every month or so a complete archive is posted...
Now includes the Odin/Thor too.
D.
A wise man once said....
Nauwtie nauwtie... veery naughty. :D
Er... I just reported that they were there - I certainly don't go posting denied software :-)
They get posted there once a month, like clockwork, and always have.
If you complain then not only are you abusing those rights, but you're one step away from advocating piracy of those games and ensuring that when they see that kind of behaviour then *everyone* will start denying games
You got to be kidding me! So by complaining about something I disagree, I'm breaking the LAW?! What planet do you come from?!
Please point out exactly where I said that you're breaking the law.
I never advocated piracy! Never! I'm ranting because since I'm honest I think it doesn't make sense to ask for money of something that only some people make the effort to talk about and preserve.
Please point out where I said that you have advocated piracy.
And it's incredible that when someone disagrees with an option (in this case, games being denied), someone says that we're inducing piracy and breaking the law! Read my post again and make sure to read the part where I say this:
These companies don't have to give a reason - they own the copyright & it's up to them to do what they like with it whether we agree or not
Naturally and I know that.
Wow, talk about jumping in with both feet - and at the deep end too. You, my friend, need to learn to read. I did not say that you advocate (or practice) piracy. Now, get some glasses or something.
And your argument doesn't come anywhere close to a matter of legality - it's also immoral to complain about how somebody exercises their rights - what's the point of granting those rights otherwise? They're not actually hurting anybody.
And since you declined to respond to the main part of my post, I'm going to assume that you're only complaining to get a response, and as such:
YOU ARE A TROLL AICMFP.
Btw, how *do* you explain the fact that although Zenobi are selling CDs they also allow free download of their games?
Hate to split hairs, but if alt.binaries.comp.sinclair has denied games lurking about then I suppose it comes under the "link to denied games" category, which is er.. not allowed on WoSF (unless I've got it horribly wrong). ;)
Also, while I strongly disagree with Alban regarding the ethics/morals/wotever of companies denying distribution of old software, I certainly won't go so far as to label him a troll.
So far, apart from him not seeing eye-to-eye with some folks here, he has tried to argue with logic (twisted as it might appear) and reasoning. No foul words or lowly sarcastic digs at others either.
I agree with others I certainly don't buy the 'holier than thou' attitude that Alban is displaying, he'll being saying next he's never ever downloaded a piece of copyrighted music.
Who are we to say if a piece of 20 year old software still has a market saleability in whatever form the copyright holder wishes to employ, surely that is a decision that can only be made by the copyright holders, to want deny that they ever as existed as Alban has suggested we do, really is a case of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' and is a road once begun to travel down has no turning back and will I feel be the beginning of the end for the Spectrum community.
_________________
I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
[ This Message was edited by: karingal on 2005-03-31 14:42 ]
On 2005-03-31 09:07, psj3809 wrote:
...
Read through his remarks again and theyre totally over the top and no one else really seems to be fully agreeing with him.
...
His remarks are not over the top really and it doesn't matter if people agree or diagree with him. What matters is that he voiced something which he feels strong about.
On 2005-03-31 09:07, psj3809 wrote:
As for deleting MAME again i think thats OTT. Its not hurting anyone playing those games most of which are as old as Speccy games.
...
His deleting MAME (and other software) may not hurt the companies but it may hurt his conscience and that's where I understand where he is coming from.
And even though he (and others) may have Sinclair Spectrum programs on his PC his/our conscience can easily dismiss the "limbo" status of the programs because as long as one does not know definitely the legality of the usage of said programs there is no "conflict" with the conscience.
On 2005-03-31 09:07, psj3809 wrote:
...
Its 2005, theres much much worse things out there and stresses rather than thinking 'i'll be an angel and delete MAME as its naughty'. You'll be helping grannies cross the road next and join the church.
We need more people helping the elderly as todays society sees more alone seniors saying good night to the announcers on TV rather than their loved ones.
As to whether people should join a church is totally up them and in most cases can help communities but that is a completely different topic.
I still think his views were totally OTT, voting for banishment of all those who deny distribution of their games, never mention them again at this site and so on.
So we banish any mention of Ultimate games ? Banish any reviews or tips on the site here for those games ? Come on, totally over the top.
If keeping MAME really hurts someone conscience then they really have to get out more. What next ? Start crying as he went over the speed limit in his car ? Start getting upset because 10 years ago he used a deodrant can which might have harmed the ozone layer ? Oh please.
Compared to many many things in the world having MAME on your computer is hardly anything.
In most communities churches 'might' help them but if you look over history most wars are caused by religion and the way the church covered up kiddie fiddler priests in NY is disgusting but like you say thats another matter.
If you read over Albans original statement regarding companies who deny distribution then are you honestly saying that wasnt OTT ? I think it should win an award for most OTT dramatic Oscar winning style post !
I struggle to understand how having MAME on your computer can play on your conscience, especially to such an extent as to where you feeling the overwhelming urge to delete it.
Perhaps I'm just a coldhearted man.
COLDHEARTED MANNNNNN...
(sorry, I went all accadacca there for a moment, I promise I'll keep it to my sig from now on!!!! :lol:)
_________________
I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
[ This Message was edited by: karingal on 2005-03-31 17:20 ]
I feel like deleting MAME as well even though I've trimmed it from 30Gig to 3Gig
(just how many obscure japaneese mature mahjong games do you need) I still don't really use it enough for the space it takes up.
I still use a copy of .36f that I bunged on one CD. It was just about the time they started emulating more of the pointless games that required huge CHD images - prior to that I had ingame and title screen shots, all the artwork files, the samples, the KLOV database for each entry, history, hardware info etc, all wrapped up in a neat custom interface I wrote myself :-)
I disagree with alban, but hey, if someone has a different (arguably wrong) opinion doesn't mean that he should immediately be addressed as a 'troll'. Minds can get heated from seeing companies denying us something -- not that we legally deserve anything, but it's just that it seems an unnice move to deny us something we would like so much in an innocent way, and of nearly zero economical value (sort of). It makes us feel the company is simply making the wrong advertising maneuvre by not pleasing the 'fans'.
But of course, it's ridiculous to go to the extremes of boycotting for something that isn't even morally wrong -- just unnice, or, in some cases, due to ignorance. It isn't hard to understand our alleged troll's frustration, but so we should interpret his post -- in a provocatory way.
Everything else, yes, is feeding the troll. :)
P.S.: whoever 'trolls' me gets cuffed in the mouth.
What happened when Ultimate denied distribution of their games ? Or was this always the case from day 1 ?
Just interested to know why people arent being anti-Ultimate. Theres a lot of anti-Codemasters feeling here and of course McKenna and Odin but thats more the manner he acted rather than denying games. Activision have also denied their games but 'touch wood' so far none of the huge companies such as Ocean or Elite have done that yet.
However like i say Ultimate must be one of the biggest and most famous Speccy companies but i dont see tons of mass hysteria about them not allowing their games to be free ?
On 2005-03-31 22:14, psj3809 wrote:
What happened when Ultimate denied distribution of their games ? Or was this always the case from day 1 ?
Not quite from day 1, but there was a request in 1994-1995-ish that their games not be distributed as they didn't want to run the risk of losing their IP rights (IIRC).
To clear this up, since many people seem not to be understanding me:
1 - Yes, I would go so far as banning mentioning the names of the companies, because I feel they are not contributing anything. If they want to make a stash by making versions to mobiles, it's a lot different from banning distribution for spectrums. My solution: Make different versions for mobiles and allow the spectrum versions to be distributed. Heck, if the games were any good, I would even buy them to play while I wait for my dentist appointment!
2 - I have the right to disagree with someone else's actions and state my opinion. In no way am I saying they don't have the legal write to do what they do. Others can do the same about me. I have never called someone a troll. Others have called me a troll. And I'm the latin agressive guy. Go figure...
3 - Yes, I've downloaded MAME and roms, and yes, I've erased them. Why? Because I'm law abiding, first, and, if you don't know, I'll tell you, there is a guy who put some mame roms for download, he was traced by capcom, arrested, trialed and is now serving 2 years charge. Keep playing with it. Sooner or later, it will be you.
4 - Backtrace, in this thread, all the mentions made to illegal situations made by others posters has justified, and even posting where they are located to be taken for free. This will make you understand who is honest (and stand up for it and speak about and heck! even rant about it) and those who call him troll but post the name of illegal distribution sites and advocate the continuous use and abuse of roms from MAME that have been explicity targeted for prosecution if used.
Alban stop using MAME if you so wish but to come out with rubbish like 1....
"I vote for complete and utter banishment of those who deny distribution of their games"
"The others should never again be named"
How do you expect people to react ?
Not every single Spectrum rom has been granted permission its just i think the fact that not all have been contacted so you could perhaps be using illegal roms ? Why not stop using those ?
I dont think you are a troll but to to post one of the most over the top posts for the last few years here is laughable. Telling us all never to mention their name and to not use their games etc !! Hahaha
What right have you got to tell us never to mention these 'banned' games or companies ? So we cant mention Ultimate games ??? I never heard an uproar when Ultimate banned their games, at the moment its anti-Activision and Odin etc.
We live in a world where people want to make money, if they think they can sell them on mobiles then let them, the games belong to them not the 'community'.
Deleting MAME doesnt instantly make you 'law abiding' , its a joke reading what you put. Sorry for this post to sound so aggressive but it really is laughable all this law abiding delete MAME type of crap. Yes a guy went to jail for having MAME, saying 'it'll be you one day' is ridiculous.
I'm much more worried about getting mowed down by a drunk driver, or getting lung cancer because of passive smoking or getting killed in a terrorist attack than i ever am about getting arrested for having MAME on my machine or having a few mp3's. Christ you'll never leave the house next as you'll be so paranoid.
Walk around with your pretend 'halo' if you want whilst the rest of us who use MAME burn in hell ;) Before this thread you always posted decent stuff, this latest thread is bordering on the insane.
On 2005-04-06 09:42, psj3809 wrote:
... Christ you'll never leave the house next as you'll be so paranoid.
*OT alert*
That reminds me of a news story I read a few months ago. I don't remember the exact details but this is more or less how it went:
There was this guy who was extremely superstitious. It so happens that sometime back, the alignment of planets (planets in a line or something) was considered especially inauspicious. Well this guy suddenly gets the notion that something bad will happen to him if he steps out from his house. He then goes to the length of actually taking leave from work so that he doesn't have to go out from his house on that particular day.
If the news story is to be believed, while he was cooking a bee/wasp flew in through the window and stung him and he died of an severe allergic reaction.
If it's true, it's gotta be the most bizzare story I've heard in a long time!
Comments
A wise man once said....
Nauwtie nauwtie... veery naughty. :D
Sure, it's a pain when companies deny distribution. But why the hell should they allow free download of their property when they feel it is still profitable?
If all the software developers had given their software away in the 80s, rather than sold it, the Spectrum/home computer scene would have died a death.
Do you expect Sony, Nintendo and the like to suddenly start "giving" away Mario, Gran Turismo, GTA and Tomb Raider in a couple of decades? Of course not, and why should they?!
Feeling trolls happens quite a lot in Nottingham
Why he think that throwing all his toys out of his pram is going to persuade companies to release old games into the community is beyond me. The tried and proven way is to work with them and get their trust and support.
To be honest Alban if your recent posts on this subject are the way you feel and in your opinion the best way to go forward then I feel you're in the wrong community.
Well, hang on a bit. It is possible that we are experiencing a smidgeon of a language barrier here. It seems that Alban is actually putting forth a fairly complex thought here but we are cutting him off before he can actually put his full thoughts down.
If I am reading Alban correctly then it seems to me that he is actually putting forth two arguments in one philosophical, yet somewhat anarchic context:
A) He is law-abiding (I too have deleted programs after I heard that they were "illegal" or interfered with copyrights.)
B) He wants to revive old games/programs by using them and is frustrated with the conflict within him because he also wants to be law-abiding.
I can totally see his point(s) but all in all the discussion becomes pointless because we KNOW that we can't do anything about the legality of these particular circumstances i.e. copyright holders have said "NO DISTRIBUTION" ... we could continue to discuss this on a more philosophical level but we wouldn't technically accomplish anything except maybe better understand each others points of view (if the discussion were properly conducted) ...
Anyways, just my two pennies.
Skarpo
:)
Hear, hear!!!
Skarpo
:)
Hear, hear !!!
That`s what I woulda liked to have said if I was better with words, Alban obviously feels strongly about this, if he`s that strong with his convictions that he would or has seriously deleted Mame due to copyright violations then I for one respect his beliefs, and the fact that he`ll shout them out, even when he knows he`s gonna get jumped on, then, haha, good on him... whether I agree with those beliefs though... is another matter..
:)
Read through his remarks again and theyre totally over the top and no one else really seems to be fully agreeing with him.
As for deleting MAME again i think thats OTT. Its not hurting anyone playing those games most of which are as old as Speccy games. If thats the case why doesnt he delete most of his Speccy games as a huge percentage havent been allowed for distribution, its just a case of the people not being able to be contacted. So 'surely' if we're acting all saintly then those people should delete those games as theyre currently in 'limbo', eg not banned but not approved.
Its 2005, theres much much worse things out there and stresses rather than thinking 'i'll be an angel and delete MAME as its naughty'. You'll be helping grannies cross the road next and join the church.
Er... I just reported that they were there - I certainly don't go posting denied software :-)
They get posted there once a month, like clockwork, and always have.
D.
as for kendalls troll comment, alban is a big contributer on wos chat and isnt just a troll who pops on here for rant
Please point out exactly where I said that you're breaking the law.
Please point out where I said that you have advocated piracy.
Wow, talk about jumping in with both feet - and at the deep end too. You, my friend, need to learn to read. I did not say that you advocate (or practice) piracy. Now, get some glasses or something.
And your argument doesn't come anywhere close to a matter of legality - it's also immoral to complain about how somebody exercises their rights - what's the point of granting those rights otherwise? They're not actually hurting anybody.
And since you declined to respond to the main part of my post, I'm going to assume that you're only complaining to get a response, and as such:
YOU ARE A TROLL AICMFP.
Btw, how *do* you explain the fact that although Zenobi are selling CDs they also allow free download of their games?
D.
Also, while I strongly disagree with Alban regarding the ethics/morals/wotever of companies denying distribution of old software, I certainly won't go so far as to label him a troll.
So far, apart from him not seeing eye-to-eye with some folks here, he has tried to argue with logic (twisted as it might appear) and reasoning. No foul words or lowly sarcastic digs at others either.
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
Who are we to say if a piece of 20 year old software still has a market saleability in whatever form the copyright holder wishes to employ, surely that is a decision that can only be made by the copyright holders, to want deny that they ever as existed as Alban has suggested we do, really is a case of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' and is a road once begun to travel down has no turning back and will I feel be the beginning of the end for the Spectrum community.
_________________
I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
[ This Message was edited by: karingal on 2005-03-31 14:42 ]
His remarks are not over the top really and it doesn't matter if people agree or diagree with him. What matters is that he voiced something which he feels strong about.
His deleting MAME (and other software) may not hurt the companies but it may hurt his conscience and that's where I understand where he is coming from.
And even though he (and others) may have Sinclair Spectrum programs on his PC his/our conscience can easily dismiss the "limbo" status of the programs because as long as one does not know definitely the legality of the usage of said programs there is no "conflict" with the conscience.
We need more people helping the elderly as todays society sees more alone seniors saying good night to the announcers on TV rather than their loved ones.
As to whether people should join a church is totally up them and in most cases can help communities but that is a completely different topic.
Skarpo
:)
So we banish any mention of Ultimate games ? Banish any reviews or tips on the site here for those games ? Come on, totally over the top.
If keeping MAME really hurts someone conscience then they really have to get out more. What next ? Start crying as he went over the speed limit in his car ? Start getting upset because 10 years ago he used a deodrant can which might have harmed the ozone layer ? Oh please.
Compared to many many things in the world having MAME on your computer is hardly anything.
In most communities churches 'might' help them but if you look over history most wars are caused by religion and the way the church covered up kiddie fiddler priests in NY is disgusting but like you say thats another matter.
If you read over Albans original statement regarding companies who deny distribution then are you honestly saying that wasnt OTT ? I think it should win an award for most OTT dramatic Oscar winning style post !
Perhaps I'm just a coldhearted man.
COLDHEARTED MANNNNNN...
(sorry, I went all accadacca there for a moment, I promise I'll keep it to my sig from now on!!!! :lol:)
_________________
I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
[ This Message was edited by: karingal on 2005-03-31 17:20 ]
(just how many obscure japaneese mature mahjong games do you need) I still don't really use it enough for the space it takes up.
D.
But of course, it's ridiculous to go to the extremes of boycotting for something that isn't even morally wrong -- just unnice, or, in some cases, due to ignorance. It isn't hard to understand our alleged troll's frustration, but so we should interpret his post -- in a provocatory way.
Everything else, yes, is feeding the troll. :)
P.S.: whoever 'trolls' me gets cuffed in the mouth.
Just interested to know why people arent being anti-Ultimate. Theres a lot of anti-Codemasters feeling here and of course McKenna and Odin but thats more the manner he acted rather than denying games. Activision have also denied their games but 'touch wood' so far none of the huge companies such as Ocean or Elite have done that yet.
However like i say Ultimate must be one of the biggest and most famous Speccy companies but i dont see tons of mass hysteria about them not allowing their games to be free ?
Not quite from day 1, but there was a request in 1994-1995-ish that their games not be distributed as they didn't want to run the risk of losing their IP rights (IIRC).
1 - Yes, I would go so far as banning mentioning the names of the companies, because I feel they are not contributing anything. If they want to make a stash by making versions to mobiles, it's a lot different from banning distribution for spectrums. My solution: Make different versions for mobiles and allow the spectrum versions to be distributed. Heck, if the games were any good, I would even buy them to play while I wait for my dentist appointment!
2 - I have the right to disagree with someone else's actions and state my opinion. In no way am I saying they don't have the legal write to do what they do. Others can do the same about me. I have never called someone a troll. Others have called me a troll. And I'm the latin agressive guy. Go figure...
3 - Yes, I've downloaded MAME and roms, and yes, I've erased them. Why? Because I'm law abiding, first, and, if you don't know, I'll tell you, there is a guy who put some mame roms for download, he was traced by capcom, arrested, trialed and is now serving 2 years charge. Keep playing with it. Sooner or later, it will be you.
4 - Backtrace, in this thread, all the mentions made to illegal situations made by others posters has justified, and even posting where they are located to be taken for free. This will make you understand who is honest (and stand up for it and speak about and heck! even rant about it) and those who call him troll but post the name of illegal distribution sites and advocate the continuous use and abuse of roms from MAME that have been explicity targeted for prosecution if used.
I rest my case.
"I vote for complete and utter banishment of those who deny distribution of their games"
"The others should never again be named"
How do you expect people to react ?
Not every single Spectrum rom has been granted permission its just i think the fact that not all have been contacted so you could perhaps be using illegal roms ? Why not stop using those ?
I dont think you are a troll but to to post one of the most over the top posts for the last few years here is laughable. Telling us all never to mention their name and to not use their games etc !! Hahaha
What right have you got to tell us never to mention these 'banned' games or companies ? So we cant mention Ultimate games ??? I never heard an uproar when Ultimate banned their games, at the moment its anti-Activision and Odin etc.
We live in a world where people want to make money, if they think they can sell them on mobiles then let them, the games belong to them not the 'community'.
Deleting MAME doesnt instantly make you 'law abiding' , its a joke reading what you put. Sorry for this post to sound so aggressive but it really is laughable all this law abiding delete MAME type of crap. Yes a guy went to jail for having MAME, saying 'it'll be you one day' is ridiculous.
I'm much more worried about getting mowed down by a drunk driver, or getting lung cancer because of passive smoking or getting killed in a terrorist attack than i ever am about getting arrested for having MAME on my machine or having a few mp3's. Christ you'll never leave the house next as you'll be so paranoid.
Walk around with your pretend 'halo' if you want whilst the rest of us who use MAME burn in hell ;) Before this thread you always posted decent stuff, this latest thread is bordering on the insane.
*OT alert*
That reminds me of a news story I read a few months ago. I don't remember the exact details but this is more or less how it went:
There was this guy who was extremely superstitious. It so happens that sometime back, the alignment of planets (planets in a line or something) was considered especially inauspicious. Well this guy suddenly gets the notion that something bad will happen to him if he steps out from his house. He then goes to the length of actually taking leave from work so that he doesn't have to go out from his house on that particular day.
If the news story is to be believed, while he was cooking a bee/wasp flew in through the window and stung him and he died of an severe allergic reaction.
If it's true, it's gotta be the most bizzare story I've heard in a long time!
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.