I checked with Microsoft/Rare and Elite doesn't have permission to release Atic Atac, you've just bought stolen goods.
Did you not notice that Elite took all the copyright info out of the game? Did you not notice the Ultimate Play the Game logo on the loading screen is missing?
Firstly, a digital piece of software is not classed as goods in the EU, it is classed as an electronically supplied service so I'm not in receipt of stolen goods. Secondly, nope, I just saw Atic Atac and, quite rightly so from my point of view, assumed it was all legit. If it's not legit, it probably slipped through Apple's approval fingers unnoticed.
Thirdly, if they don't have the rights to release Atic Atac what the hell is going on? Fourthly - I've still got my original copy bought in 1984 to fall back on if it gets removed from the App store. :)
"The Android market has been 'poisoned' by a number of very shoddy Spectrum implementations that are fed by some illegal game file databases." -- Steve Wilcox, Elite Systems.
I always thought he was bit a of nob after coming out with that absolute nonsense. This escapade just seems to confirm it.
"The Android market has been 'poisoned' by a number of very shoddy Spectrum implementations that are fed by some illegal game file databases." -- Steve Wilcox, Elite Systems.
I always thought he was bit a of nob after coming out with that absolute nonsense. This escapade just seems to confirm it.
Indeed, perhaps bad to cross post but the new thread is here now.Thread on Atic Atac
I don't want to bump this one for obvious reasons...
Considering that there are so many players in this situation, and only ONE of them is screaming "FOUL!", and that player is a competitor to Elite Systems, shouldn't you all be waiting for independent confirmation from one of the other players before accepting these serious accusations as fact? Or does the player whose written the most paragraphs on the subject win the argument?
No visible action against Elite by the rights owners (even a simple C&D, which costs little more than a stamp) implies they're probably doing everything by the book.
I'm ready to be proven wrong, but we're only getting one side of the argument here.
No visible action against Elite by the rights owners (even a simple C&D, which costs little more than a stamp) implies they're probably doing everything by the book.
I don't know how efficient the royal mail is in your neck of the woods, but given that MS/Rare were only notified about this this evening, that statement seems a tad ridiculous.
I'm ready to be proven wrong, but we're only getting one side of the argument here.
I'm ready to believe Steve Wilcox is a bit of a nob based on past performance alone.
- Atic Atac* (*: 100% of what Apple pays Elite for this in-app purchase will be donated to Great Ormond Street Hospital Children?s Charity. Registered charity no. 235825. Follow the donations on our Twitter account.)
I think Korinel's covered the charity issue adequately in his blog post.
And even if Elite Systems stood to gain nothing from this (which it clearly does), I'm pretty sure IP theft is still illegal even if you give the proceeds to charidee!
And even if Elite Systems stood to gain nothing from this (which it clearly does), I'm pretty sure IP theft is still illegal even if you give the proceeds to charidee!
Yeah, many people don't realised that. Many "non-profit" and "charity funds" are actually in fact stealing other people's stuff to fund themselves. That's why you should be careful when that kind of companies try to approach you to make sure they're completely trustworthy.
Sadly that this also happens in the Spectrum homebrew scene too (if you haven't noticed).
On the other hand, Atic Atac is according to YS, if I recall correctly, one of the most used game in Speccy compilations, so it's possible that Elite ended up with one of those licenses. (Although removing copyright licenses from a game does seem very fishy, if that really had happened.)
The compilations thing set me thinking. Is it possible that Elite did a deal with US Gold over the Ultimate games? They re-issued most of them back in the day, so it's possible that they might have some residual claim to their ownership.
Even if something like that is the case, I'm still not impressed by the cloak and dagger stuff with the logo though.
Could you be more specific? Do you mean things like cracked versions of new releases or something else?
Can we discuss this thru PM? I don't really want to discuss this kind of things in details in public as I'm afraid my below average english will get it out all wrong.
Even if something like that is the case, I'm still not impressed by the cloak and dagger stuff with the logo though.
It's plausible that the logo's a trademark that Elite doesn't have the right to use, but they do have the right to re-release the game. For example, the tie-in licenced game Oink! (based on a crap comic) was put on a YS cover tape, but had to be renamed Piggy Tales - YS had the right to rerelease the game, but not to reuse the licence.
The thing which doesn't add up for me is the claim that Elite would try such a ballsy move in full view of everybody on assumption that they wouldn't get caught and/or no one would mind. It defies all logic.
The thing which doesn't add up for me is the claim that Elite would try such a ballsy move in full view of everybody on assumption that they wouldn't get caught and/or no one would mind. It defies all logic.
I agree entirely. It also seems bizarre to me that they've done this without a HUGE PRESS RELEASE - this is the most significant addition to the emulator since Manic Miner.
I agree entirely. It also seems bizarre to me that they've done this without a HUGE PRESS RELEASE - this is the most significant addition to the emulator since Manic Miner.
I'm not so sure about that - Atic Atac got outshined by the rest of the Ultimate range. I certainly don't think it would be as big a deal as Knight Lore, Jet Pac, etc, would be. Don't know - and too many unknowns to justify the current accusations IMHO.
Given the hoo-hah Elite made of the "Previously unseen Miner Willy" game (special domain name, hyped up 'mystery' website announcements, interview with Matt Smith) that turned out to be a hacked up copy of JSW that Matt Smith had nothing to do with, and given the comments he's made about other emulators and the WoS archive itself, and given that this release of this particular game is mysteriously linked to the same charity that Korinel is donating the income from his legit release to (which smacks a little of an distraction/a*se-covering exercise to me), I think it's fair to describe Mr.Wilcox as "something of a chancer".
Maybe he's happy with all the publicity this is generating? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?
Given the hoo-hah Elite made of the "Previously unseen Miner Willy" game (special domain name, hyped up 'mystery' website announcements, interview with Matt Smith) that turned out to be a hacked up copy of JSW that Matt Smith had nothing to do with, and given the comments he's made about other emulators and the WoS archive itself, and given that this release of this particular game is mysteriously linked to the same charity that Korinel is donating the income from his legit release to (which smacks a little of an distraction/a*se-covering exercise to me), I think it's fair to describe Mr.Wilcox as "something of a chancer".
Maybe he's happy with all the publicity this is generating? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?
Whilst I agree with some of what you're saying, I don't see anything illegal, immoral or shadey in what they've done. I don't see any misrepresentation or misappropriation, just a little over-eagerness on the PR side of things. If we're to slate companies for being that way, then we may as well just give up on all things Speccy.
Can we discuss this thru PM? I don't really want to discuss this kind of things in details in public as I'm afraid my below average english will get it out all wrong.
Sure thing. Even with English as a first language there are some people around here with an axe to grind who will twist your words to support whatever fantasist belief they are nursing on any given day of the week.
The compilations thing set me thinking. Is it possible that Elite did a deal with US Gold over the Ultimate games? They re-issued most of them back in the day, so it's possible that they might have some residual claim to their ownership.
I think this is highly unlikely as RARE has used parts of the Atic Atac IP in more recent games games like Banjo-Kazooie, Sabre Wulf (on GBA) and Grabbed by the Ghoulies that I can think of from the top of my head. This is a trend they seemed (1) to go for on a regular basis, including bits of Ultimate Play the Game IP, as if it was a way of keeping the IP in use for possible future reuse. The most obvious example of reuse would be the re-issue of Jetpac on the 360.
(1) In the pre "Kinnect" days of RARE when they made real games.
The compilations thing set me thinking. Is it possible that Elite did a deal with US Gold over the Ultimate games? They re-issued most of them back in the day, so it's possible that they might have some residual claim to their ownership.
Even if something like that is the case, I'm still not impressed by the cloak and dagger stuff with the logo though.
maybe it's a repeat of much like what happened with taito / firebird & microprose perhaps.. when microprose bought up firebird from BT, they wrongly assumed they had the IP for rainbow islands etc conversions.. as firebird had done a deal for other things (bubble bobble, flying shark etc) . taito , then said NO .. and thats why R.I was out on ocean.
sure elite has bought from durrell and more I guess, but even if they did buy US GOLD IP (which isn't loads because it was folk like epyx etc who did a lot of their stuff) . I can't see how they can claim they had permission , since they didn't do the deal with the stampers *AND* it might only cover them for the 8 bit formats in their original form as tapes (and not even emulated)
I do think whacking the code in the n64 game of all the speccy titles was a way to refresh any trademark etc. much like dylans issue was re-issued to stop it falling out of copyright earlier this year.
without seeing paperwork of anything relating to what is / isn't signed, who knows. MS and Rare would have been told about such apps popping up, by now no doubt.
there have been plenty of apps that have used ripped off graphics etc that were taken down, BUT you sign ALL liability when you up to apple I'd imagine.
Comments
Firstly, a digital piece of software is not classed as goods in the EU, it is classed as an electronically supplied service so I'm not in receipt of stolen goods. Secondly, nope, I just saw Atic Atac and, quite rightly so from my point of view, assumed it was all legit. If it's not legit, it probably slipped through Apple's approval fingers unnoticed.
Thirdly, if they don't have the rights to release Atic Atac what the hell is going on? Fourthly - I've still got my original copy bought in 1984 to fall back on if it gets removed from the App store. :)
Nope, the ACG key is still the same old ACG key. :)
I always thought he was bit a of nob after coming out with that absolute nonsense. This escapade just seems to confirm it.
Indeed, perhaps bad to cross post but the new thread is here now.Thread on Atic Atac
I don't want to bump this one for obvious reasons...
No visible action against Elite by the rights owners (even a simple C&D, which costs little more than a stamp) implies they're probably doing everything by the book.
I'm ready to be proven wrong, but we're only getting one side of the argument here.
I'm ready to believe Steve Wilcox is a bit of a nob based on past performance alone.
Steve's aware of this thread. Let's see if he comes to set the record straight because at the moment it looks like he's a thieving git.
- Atic Atac* (*: 100% of what Apple pays Elite for this in-app purchase will be donated to Great Ormond Street Hospital Children?s Charity. Registered charity no. 235825. Follow the donations on our Twitter account.)
Ahh, so he has.
Yeah, many people don't realised that. Many "non-profit" and "charity funds" are actually in fact stealing other people's stuff to fund themselves. That's why you should be careful when that kind of companies try to approach you to make sure they're completely trustworthy.
Sadly that this also happens in the Spectrum homebrew scene too (if you haven't noticed).
On the other hand, Atic Atac is according to YS, if I recall correctly, one of the most used game in Speccy compilations, so it's possible that Elite ended up with one of those licenses. (Although removing copyright licenses from a game does seem very fishy, if that really had happened.)
Games List 2016 - Games List 2015 - Games List 2014
Even if something like that is the case, I'm still not impressed by the cloak and dagger stuff with the logo though.
Could you be more specific? Do you mean things like cracked versions of new releases or something else?
Games List 2016 - Games List 2015 - Games List 2014
It's plausible that the logo's a trademark that Elite doesn't have the right to use, but they do have the right to re-release the game. For example, the tie-in licenced game Oink! (based on a crap comic) was put on a YS cover tape, but had to be renamed Piggy Tales - YS had the right to rerelease the game, but not to reuse the licence.
The thing which doesn't add up for me is the claim that Elite would try such a ballsy move in full view of everybody on assumption that they wouldn't get caught and/or no one would mind. It defies all logic.
I agree entirely. It also seems bizarre to me that they've done this without a HUGE PRESS RELEASE - this is the most significant addition to the emulator since Manic Miner.
I'm not so sure about that - Atic Atac got outshined by the rest of the Ultimate range. I certainly don't think it would be as big a deal as Knight Lore, Jet Pac, etc, would be. Don't know - and too many unknowns to justify the current accusations IMHO.
Maybe he's happy with all the publicity this is generating? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?
Whilst I agree with some of what you're saying, I don't see anything illegal, immoral or shadey in what they've done. I don't see any misrepresentation or misappropriation, just a little over-eagerness on the PR side of things. If we're to slate companies for being that way, then we may as well just give up on all things Speccy.
Sure thing. Even with English as a first language there are some people around here with an axe to grind who will twist your words to support whatever fantasist belief they are nursing on any given day of the week.
I think this is highly unlikely as RARE has used parts of the Atic Atac IP in more recent games games like Banjo-Kazooie, Sabre Wulf (on GBA) and Grabbed by the Ghoulies that I can think of from the top of my head. This is a trend they seemed (1) to go for on a regular basis, including bits of Ultimate Play the Game IP, as if it was a way of keeping the IP in use for possible future reuse. The most obvious example of reuse would be the re-issue of Jetpac on the 360.
(1) In the pre "Kinnect" days of RARE when they made real games.
maybe it's a repeat of much like what happened with taito / firebird & microprose perhaps.. when microprose bought up firebird from BT, they wrongly assumed they had the IP for rainbow islands etc conversions.. as firebird had done a deal for other things (bubble bobble, flying shark etc) . taito , then said NO .. and thats why R.I was out on ocean.
sure elite has bought from durrell and more I guess, but even if they did buy US GOLD IP (which isn't loads because it was folk like epyx etc who did a lot of their stuff) . I can't see how they can claim they had permission , since they didn't do the deal with the stampers *AND* it might only cover them for the 8 bit formats in their original form as tapes (and not even emulated)
I do think whacking the code in the n64 game of all the speccy titles was a way to refresh any trademark etc. much like dylans issue was re-issued to stop it falling out of copyright earlier this year.
without seeing paperwork of anything relating to what is / isn't signed, who knows. MS and Rare would have been told about such apps popping up, by now no doubt.
there have been plenty of apps that have used ripped off graphics etc that were taken down, BUT you sign ALL liability when you up to apple I'd imagine.