WOS API WTF?!

edited July 2013 in Infoseek database
I try to use the API.

It would seem that this is an honest way to get information, coined the owner database (site).

But in fact it is almost useless.

Enough to make about 10 requests and speed of issue falls heavily.

And as soon as you banyat 20-30 queries.

The question is - why do we need such an API?

I do not believe that is the protection against DDOS. If someone wants to DDOS WOS he does not need to be API.

I think that the owner just greedy. But what he is entitled to be greedy information that we have collected all!

It turns out that we are limited to our own information.



What I did:

15 requests from 1.1 second intervals. Then pause 7 seconds.

30-50 requests I have been banned.
Post edited by newart on
«1

Comments

  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    Enough to make about 10 requests and speed of issue falls heavily.
    And as soon as you banyat 20-30 queries.

    What exactly are you trying to do? I hope it's not to download games wholesale because that *will* be a bad thing to do because the bandwidth is limited.
    The question is - why do we need such an API?

    It's an information tool. It's currently being used in emulators and apps to download games and other related content in a sane way.
    I think that the owner just greedy. But what he is entitled to be greedy information that we have collected all!

    Pot. Kettle. Black. WoS is 100% donation and payment free. Martijn runs the website and all other supporting paraphernalia out of his own pockets. He has the right to decide what's good for the website and its users.
  • edited July 2013
    Arjun wrote: »
    What exactly are you trying to do? I hope it's not to download games wholesale because that *will* be a bad thing to do because the bandwidth is limited.
    Not.

    Otherwise, Martin would have published specific limitation.
    Or posted to the database txt.
    Once this is done ... suggests only one conclusion.

    It's an information tool. It's currently being used in emulators and apps to download games and other related content in a sane way.
    Nowhere is it stated that I can not use it for their own purposes.

    Pot. Kettle. Black. WoS is 100% donation and payment free. Martijn runs the website and all other supporting paraphernalia out of his own pockets. He has the right to decide what's good for the website and its users.
    When it comes to cleanliness, the WOS very lazily updated. A lot of games have the status of Missing in Action - in this case they can be found in Google...
  • edited July 2013
    Arjun wrote: »
    What exactly are you trying to do? I hope it's not to download games wholesale because that *will* be a bad thing to do because the bandwidth is limited.

    Code:

    [PHP]OpenConsole()

    wait = 1
    nm = 0
    skip = 600

    If ReadFile(0, "spectrum4ever.org.htm")
    While Eof(0) = 0
    t$ = ReadString(0)

    nm + 1

    If nm > skip

    title$ = StringField(t$, 2, "/")
    id$ = StringField(t$, 1, "/")

    xml$ = SimpleHTTP_GET( URLEncoder( "http://www.worldofspectrum.org/api/infoseek_search_xml.cgi?title="+title$) )
    Print(Str(nm) +" - "+ title$)


    id_wos$ = cut(xml$, "<id>", "</id>")

    If xml$ And id_wos$

    Delay(3000+Random(1000))

    xml$ = SimpleHTTP_GET( URLEncoder( "http://www.worldofspectrum.org/api/infoseek_select_xml.cgi?id="+id_wos$) )

    If xml$

    CreateFile(1, "XML/"+id$+".xml")
    WriteString(1, xml$)

    Print(" - "+id_wos$)

    Else

    PrintN(" - BAD INFO :(")

    EndIf

    PrintN("")

    Delay(3000+Random(1000))

    Else

    PrintN(" - BAD ID :(")

    EndIf

    wait + 1

    If wait = 29+Random(10)

    Delay(15000+Random(5000))
    wait = 0

    EndIf

    EndIf

    Wend
    CloseFile(0)
    EndIf[/PHP]

    Everything I do is a request to the API.
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    I try to use the API.

    It would seem that this is an honest way to get information, coined the owner database (site).

    But in fact it is almost useless.

    Enough to make about 10 requests and speed of issue falls heavily.

    And as soon as you banyat 20-30 queries.

    The question is - why do we need such an API?

    I do not believe that is the protection against DDOS. If someone wants to DDOS WOS he does not need to be API.

    I think that the owner just greedy. But what he is entitled to be greedy information that we have collected all!

    It turns out that we are limited to our own information.



    What I did:

    15 requests from 1.1 second intervals. Then pause 7 seconds.

    30-50 requests I have been banned.
    You're obviously doing it wrong, I wrote a query script for Spud and have used it countless times for 5 up to 150 database entries and have never been banned.

    If you already have all the games then why are you trying to access 20-30 at a time?

    I suspect you're doing something you're not telling us.
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • edited July 2013
    karingal wrote: »
    You're obviously doing it wrong, I wrote a query script for Spud and have used it countless times for 5 up to 150 database entries and have never been banned.

    If you already have all the games then why are you trying to access 20-30 at a time?

    I suspect you're doing something you're not telling us.

    I suspect that you have a paranoia. ;)

    There is a project spectrum4ever.org - there collected cassette versions of games and programs. Cracked by various hacker (Bill Gilbert, etc.)

    Initially, the database information was collected only the name of the game and the name of hackers.

    Users are asked to develop the site and expand the information about the games, adding the name of the game author, date of manufacture, etc.

    The games themselves with WOS I do not need.

    All I do is take a list of name of the game as it is in spectrum4ever.org - are extracted from the resulting XML ID games and downloading page with its description.

    That's it. Nothing tricky or illegal.
  • edited July 2013
    p.s. The database spectrum4ever there are 1,800 kinds of games. So I need to make only 1800 * 2 queries WOS API.

    I'm in no hurry. But I have to pick up an experimental pause.
    Restart my router that would change my IP when I WOS bans
    and so on.

    This is stupid.
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    Not.

    Otherwise, Martin would have published specific limitation.

    Something like this?
    When it comes to cleanliness, the WOS very lazily updated. A lot of games have the status of Missing in Action - in this case they can be found in Google...

    Why not help out the archive team by posting those links or sending it to them vial mail? If they are genuine I'm sure they will be interested in filling the gaps in the archive.
  • edited July 2013
    Arjun wrote: »
    Something like this?
    Yes.

    Why not help out the archive team by posting those links or sending it to them vial mail? If they are genuine I'm sure they will be interested in filling the gaps in the archive.

    Do not see the point.

    WOS will still infinitely far from that fullness which could have.

    For example, we all know that at the Spectrum in Russia was released nearly 2,000 electronic journals. All of them are in the public domain. You just need to take and dowload.

    But the author WOS it does not. It's laziness? Indifference? I do not know, but this attitude does not motivate me to help.
  • edited July 2013
    Well Newart, Martijn is anything but lazy and greedy :)

    He ran this site alone for 15 years putting thousands of hours into it. He did it all for free, never earning a penny from it. He paid for servers for all these years from his own wallet.

    Okay, he currently neglected updating WOS which worries me much :( I guess he has a lot of duties but still... Martijn, please change the job if it doesn't leave you time for anything else, we need you and you'll be a happier man ;)

    As for Russian e-journals it's not just downloading them, it's again a lot of works with adding them to database, creating entries, authors, descriptions etc. It may be done one day but there is always an queue of another things to do and besides any Russian knows where to get them already and almost any non Russian is unable to read them, so it isn't high priority

    As for API, I'm not competent to discuss, so I'll leave it to other
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    Do not see the point.

    WOS will still infinitely far from that fullness which could have.

    For example, we all know that at the Spectrum in Russia was released nearly 2,000 electronic journals. All of them are in the public domain. You just need to take and dowload.

    But the author WOS it does not. It's laziness? Indifference? I do not know, but this attitude does not motivate me to help.

    The problem many times with the russian ZX material is the language. Many games, or other Spectrum stuff is hosted in russian sites or written directly in russian, making it hard for non-russian speakers, to gather and process it.
    For example, there is a lot of Spanish members who are taking care of the Spanish ZX material, as many times the language (Spanish) is a problem as well.
    If more russian were involved, I guess there would be more russian stuff here on WoS :)
  • fogfog
    edited July 2013
    newart, until *YOU* start paying for the bandwidth / webspace, I suggest you don't make such rash statement, we are all guests here.

    when was the last time you bought something and submitted it here ? e.g. a cover or MIA.. if you don't even do that, then that is even worse.. and I should complain about your lack of action ;)

    Martjin does a good job.. heck one day I might even buy him an amstel (I still find it funny a dutchman is bigging up spectrum when it's a c64 heartland ;) )
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    For example, we all know that at the Spectrum in Russia was released nearly 2,000 electronic journals. All of them are in the public domain. You just need to take and dowload.

    But the author WOS it does not. It's laziness? Indifference? I do not know, but this attitude does not motivate me to help.

    Well, then don't help. As if you had ever thought of helping anyway.

    Laziness? Indifference? I think you're talking about yourself. So lazy that you complain about an API to download a database instead of making your own. Indifference about all those Russuan stuff that even if you know them you don't tell us. Nice attitude you have there.
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    And as soon as you banyat 20-30 queries.

    do you mean got ban?
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    When it comes to cleanliness, the WOS very lazily updated. A lot of games have the status of Missing in Action - in this case they can be found in Google...
    Eh? Do you mean denied games (Codemasters, Activision etc.)? There is a very good reason they are not hosted here.

    MIA's can't be found on Google, or they wouldn't be MIA!
  • edited July 2013
    Mousey wrote: »
    MIA's can't be found on Google, or they wouldn't be MIA!

    Well, some (or many) MIA's have been recently preserved and offered for download, but the status hasn't changed on WoS. They're just waiting for the next TZX Vault or SPA2 update.
  • edited July 2013
    I'm reminded at this point of Frankie Boyle's vegetarian option...
    Joefish
    - IONIAN-GAMES.com -
  • edited July 2013
    g0blinish wrote: »
    do you mean got ban?
    Exactly. Funny thing, I get banned regularly just by manually surfing the archive :)
    When I open many links as new tab in my browser I always get banned to 24h sooner or later. And I really need this for information scavenging - so there is obviously something not right with WoS anti-ddos shield.
  • edited July 2013
    moroz1999 wrote: »
    Exactly. Funny thing, I get banned regularly just by manually surfing the archive :)
    When I open many links as new tab in my browser I always get banned to 24h sooner or later. And I really need this for information scavenging - so there is obviously something not right with WoS anti-ddos shield.

    Did you get in contact with Martijn about this? If there is an issue on his end, then surely he can assist you with it.
  • edited July 2013
    Exactly. Funny thing, I get banned regularly just by manually surfing the archive

    I downloaded once whole archive through ftp and hadn't any problems.

    Strange thing with this banning
  • edited July 2013
    Slightly off topic - this post did get me thinking... is there a donate option towards the running costs of WOS?

    For those who can't add extra contribution (I've a few fanzines to add but no scanner!) - it would be nice to put something towards the costs.
    No one important.
  • edited July 2013
    Mousey wrote: »
    Eh? Do you mean denied games (Codemasters, Activision etc.)? There is a very good reason they are not hosted here.

    MIA's can't be found on Google, or they wouldn't be MIA!

    Of course not.

    I'm talking about things in the status of MIA!
  • edited July 2013
    daveykins wrote: »
    Slightly off topic - this post did get me thinking... is there a donate option towards the running costs of WOS?

    For those who can't add extra contribution (I've a few fanzines to add but no scanner!) - it would be nice to put something towards the costs.

    If the base was in the public domain. I would download one file.

    In place of this I have to do 3600 requests.

    Do you seriously think that Martin saves the traffic?
  • edited July 2013
    Timmy wrote: »
    Well, then don't help. As if you had ever thought of helping anyway.

    Laziness? Indifference? I think you're talking about yourself. So lazy that you complain about an API to download a database instead of making your own. Indifference about all those Russuan stuff that even if you know them you don't tell us. Nice attitude you have there.

    I have my base. A lot of bases.

    Open your eyes: zxpress.ru, zxtunes.com, spectrum4ever.org, zxaaa 3 until the non-publication of the project.

    I'll tell you a secret, to work for the Spectrum, I spend more time than most of the work.

    I do not mean to brag, after all I'm doing this because I like it and I believe that this should be done.

    Nevertheless, it gives me a right to criticize, Martin as the administrator, I'm not talking about him as a person.
  • edited July 2013
    Ivanzx wrote: »
    The problem many times with the russian ZX material is the language. Many games, or other Spectrum stuff is hosted in russian sites or written directly in russian, making it hard for non-russian speakers, to gather and process it.
    For example, there is a lot of Spanish members who are taking care of the Spanish ZX material, as many times the language (Spanish) is a problem as well.
    If more russian were involved, I guess there would be more russian stuff here on WoS :)

    That's not true.

    You versed in websites? Do you know something about databases?

    Add one database to another, even if there are 100,000 records - it is a matter of one or two evenings. It's not hand labor.
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    That's not true.

    That is not true ;)
  • edited July 2013
    Any serious project that has the API, and has limitations that sounded. What would people do not fought in vain against the wall.

    This is the business rules, the rules of etiquette, etc.
  • edited July 2013
    Metalbrain wrote: »
    Well, some (or many) MIA's have been recently preserved and offered for download, but the status hasn't changed on WoS. They're just waiting for the next TZX Vault or SPA2 update.
    Ah... thanks for clearing that up - I didn't realise that's the way it worked with MIA's.

    Sorry for misunderstanding, newart.
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    That's not true.

    You versed in websites? Do you know something about databases?

    Add one database to another, even if there are 100,000 records - it is a matter of one or two evenings. It's not hand labor.

    Based on an earlier discussion on adding a feature to infoseek on who worked for which company I got the impression that WoS uses a 'hand-coded' database. Some of the 'inconsistencies' that have been reported on infoseek strengthen this assumption since they simply cannot happen in a normal database.

    In which case it smells a lot like manual labor. ;-)

    Shifting everything into a 'normal' standard database should, for someone with the required skillset, be a walk in the park.
  • edited July 2013
    newart wrote: »
    If the base was in the public domain. I would download one file.

    In place of this I have to do 3600 requests.

    Do you seriously think that Martin saves the traffic?

    That is not the question I asked.
    Slightly off topic - this post did get me thinking... is there a donate option towards the running costs of WOS?

    For those who can't add extra contribution (I've a few fanzines to add but no scanner!) - it would be nice to put something towards the costs.
    No one important.
  • edited July 2013
    There's absolutely no need for the attitude shown here. Why so hostile newart?
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