And therefore in Ukraine there have to live only Ukrainians. If it isn't pleasant - can go to Russia or to EU. The "good" relation at you to people. Real Germany of the thirtieth years.
Monument to Kutuzov why demolished? What Kutuzov bad to Ukrainians made? Because Russian man?
And you need to watch a little less Government-controlled state TV. And stop calling Ukranians fascists. And stop associating the Germans who read this with the fascists of the past.
In Ukraine there is the Russian naval base in Sevastopol. Everything, more Russian military there aren't present.
Sevastopol is a Ukranian Naval Base. By agreement, parts of it are loaned to Russia. Russia does not own it, but they have decided to take control of it by force.
In Ukraine fascists came to the power by means of revolution. Russia to Ukraine didn't enter any armies, simply Putin requested our parliament on permission to protect Russians in Ukraine. Permission approved.
So Russia authorises Russia to send its army into another country, and that makes it legal? :lol:
What that is is an 'invasion'. That is an act of war. Russia is supposed to be a member of the G8 to PREVENT invasions of foreign territories.
And you need to watch a little less Government-controlled state TV.
Sevastopol is a Ukranian Naval Base. By agreement, parts of it are loaned to Russia. Russia does not own it, but they have decided to take control of it by force.
To you also. And the Ukrainian ships nobody expelled. One departured. Another is about the island of Crete. Seamen hoisted the Andreevsky flag. Nobody forced them it to do.
So Russia authorises Russia to send its army into another country, and that makes it legal?
What that is is an 'invasion'. That is an act of war. Russia is supposed to be a member of the G8 to PREVENT invasions of foreign territories.
Russia anywhere doesn't send the armies. While there is an information war. I repeat, you watch BBC, CNN, EuroNews and others less. They started showing war in Georgia only when the Russian tanks there entered that Saakashvili's armies of all inhabitants of South Ossetia wouldn't kill. Before input of armies in general showed nothing.
About to send armies and to ruin the country, address to USA.
And yes, Russia consists in G8.
...
I leave a subject. You watch "free" BBC channels, and the Fifth channel of the Ukrainian television.
I watch independent TV channels, not ones controlled by the same person who is sending troops to invade another country.
There is no any 'independent TV channels' - it's a nonsence. It's just a way to control peoples. When i need some real info i'm just contact a real peoples from both sides and trying to understand each of sides. But when i see how USA with EU support bombing country by country is it OK ? :D
To be fair, EU it's just another USA state. Sometimes UK and Germany show us a independent face, but it's rarely.
When i hear ONE vision from "independent BBC" and ONE vision form "independent Russian TV" it's just a FUN. Where is an 'independent' ??? where is alternative vision ??? They must give us a different visions and we must start think. When they give me ONE vision it's just become MY vision.
We are just different. Nobody from EU not live in a little Russian city as me in 1990's. It was a real HELL. I was even scared to recall. Now i'm even have a time to write speccy games! I'm don't care about 'gays', 'freedom' and other 'democratic' toys. I'm just begining to live like a normal man for past 8 years. I can talk anything, i can do anything. There is no any controls from goverment, no any 'KGB' dudes.
EU still scared by "Komunizm Ghost" :) There is no more USSR. Time to change.
We are different, but we all love Speccy :)
It's all about dirty Politics, not about peoples like us :)
Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression'. ahaha! It's a relly LOL!!! :grin: Intervention by NATO and USA to independency Afghanistan this is not 'act of aggression' - they just a peacekeepers! How about ntervention by NATO and USA to Iraq? Of course they are just a peacekeepers! NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - haha - just a peace enforcement! Fine men! And what we have now? Russia so far has not even sent troops to protect its citizens on the territory of Ukraine and thuis terrible 'incredible act of aggression'!!! AHahaha you really brainwashed :confused:
Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression'. ahaha! It's a relly LOL!!! :grin: Intervention by NATO and USA to independency Afghanistan this is not 'act of aggression' - they just a peacekeepers! How about ntervention by NATO and USA to Iraq? Of course they are just a peacekeepers! NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - haha - just a peace enforcement! Fine men! And what we have now? Russia so far has not even sent troops to protect its citizens on the territory of Ukraine and thuis terrible 'incredible act of aggression'!!! AHahaha you really brainwashed :confused:
true... all governments operate in a hypocritical way, to a greater or lesser degree. which is why I don't think there are any 'good guys' when it comes to world superpowers
A difficult situation, being made worse by the UK and USA.
Nations infamous for invading other countries with trumped up excuses are now telling Russia that they've violated another country's sovereignty.
Of course, its nothing to do with the fact that Europe gets a third of its gas from Russia via a pipeline thats passes through the Ukraine......
Would you really consider split of Ukraine into two countries as a bad thing?
As I'm trying to understand the situation, there is a big difference conflict between western Ukraine and eastern+south Ukraine.
In the West they talk Ukrainian and don't like Russia.
In the East they talk Russian and like Russia.
They don't like each other
If they elect president from the East, people from the West will be angry.
If they elect president from the West, people from the East will be angry.
No good solution for all.
Wouldn't everybody be happier if they lived in two countries and wouldn't need to make some compromises all time?
oh, there are a lot of historical errors: "On 19 February 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. The transfer of the Crimean Oblast to Ukraine has been described as a "symbolic gesture," marking the 300th anniversary of Ukraine becoming a part of the Russian Empire. In post-war years, Crimea thrived as a prime tourist destination, built with new attractions and spas for tourists. Tourists came from all over the Soviet Union and neighbouring countries. Crimea's infrastructure and manufacturing was also developed, particularly around the sea ports at Kerch and Sevastopol and in the oblast's landlocked capital of Simferopol."
I think if today Ukraine is a independent country it should return this 'symbolic present' back.
So historically Crimea is a Russian city. According to the 2001 Ukrainian population census 58% of the population of Crimea are ethnic Russians and 24% are ethnic Ukrainians. So do you really think Russia should just to forget about its citizens?
I hope this doesn't escalate or it could result in world war 3. I wonder if the US will invade as they seem to enjoy invading countries:grin:
They can only pick on smaller, poorer and less well armed countries and when they do they need their gang with them. They DAREN'T pick on North Korea because they know North Korea can defend themselves, aren't scared of them and WILL retaliate.
They can only pick on smaller, poorer and less well armed countries and when they do they need their gang with them.
Today all countries are 'smaller, poorer and less well armed' except of USA, Russia and China. Be realistic :lol: And other countries can only decide on whose side they are.
p.s. I am really against any military actions with our neighbors, especially Ukrainians. But this situation would't be if NATO did not try to get yourself Ukraine. I'm sure this madness must be stopped.
First, stop trying to show other countries' bad behaviour as examples of why Russia can send in troops anywhere it likes. One crime does not justify another.
Foreign troops have invaded a sovereign territory. Russia tries to justify it by calling the Kiev revolution an act of terror that threatens the people of the Crimea. This is nonsense. It was an overthrow of a corrupt president who was stealing money from the state to fund his own lifestyle.
I don't see a problem if the Crimean people want to separate from the new government in Ukraine and ally themselves with Russia. It is no great surprise. But instead of letting it come from the peple there, Russia has marched in with a demonstration of force to take the region.
Right now the dare is on the new Ukranian government to do anything about it, but they do not have the resources at the moment to contest the Crimea region.
If Russia starts to move beyond the Crimean Peninsula and enter the few Eastern Ukranian cities that still have Russian sympathies, then there is going to be fighting.
Yep that's why I'm sure all issues should be resolved at the negotiating table. This is crazy illogical decision by Putin. You can beleive me no one normal persons here in Russia support it. But all these aggressive threats from European leaders will not help us today.
I wanted to share my perhaps wrong perception, the ex-KGB guy is trying to protect his delegations in Belarus and Ukrania, yet only the latter has bankrupted the country. There is an important naval base involved and part of the gas consumed by UE must cross over there. As for the ethnic argument, I think this is not Uganda, we all have seen the snippers having fun in Kiev streets and seems that Yanuko fled frightened after being expelled from his own party, I'd suggest Ukrainians not to give him arguments, right now he knows is just giving poor excuses, just stay calm and let the dude going stir crazy, hold free elections soon under UE verification standards, tell US to keep apart and don't forget that russian people are friends.
If Russia starts to move beyond the Crimean Peninsula and enter the few Eastern Ukranian cities that still have Russian sympathies, then there is going to be fighting.
Unfortunattly I think Russia will do it. This is exactly the same thing that usually USA did against countries in the any edge of the World. Now Russia will do it simply because Russia can do it and because this is opportune hystorical moment and this is historical territory of Russia. It is time to gather stones you know.
...hold free elections soon under UE verification standards...
I so dream someday we also will have free elections here in Russia :-) but apparently it will not happen soon :o
By the way Putin was elected every time based on UE verification standards. haha. But no one here will tell you these are 'free elections'.
Unfortunattly I think Russia will do it. This is exactly the same thing that usually USA did against countries in the any edge of the World. Now Russia will do it simply because Russia can do it and because this is opportune hystorical moment and this is historical territory of Russia. It is time to gather stones you know.
Well, this is the problem. There's this game at the moment with the media where Ukranians in Kiev are being told Russia is invading them and so they cry out for military help from other countries - when in reality, they are in no danger at the moment as Russian troops are only in the Crimea, where they are welcomed by the locals. They have not yet made any threat on the rest of the Ukraine, which is why other countries see no need to intervene with force.
But in Russia and the Crimea, people are being told that the Crimeans are under threat from Kiev-controlled militia, and the troops are neccessary to protect them - which is equally not true at the moment.
However, let's be honest, Putin has a lot more than just the historical and strategic territory of the Crimea in mind - he's assuming the Crimea is already Russian, and looking to see what he can do in the rest of Ukraine. And there's more than Patriotism there - there are the interests of the very rich industrialists who keep him in power. That's where the risk of a war now lies.
weren't there tatars before ? now that Kiev is lost, he should call for a scholar conference to discuss the historical rights over that region. I'm going to write a letter to Mariano so that he learns to use the flag as well and invades Gibraltar, Roussillon, Cuba or whatever the **** the grandeur feeling demands, why not trying with Albion again ? :grin: don't provoke the guy, he's looking for getting more cities, besides I don't want him to say hello in the mare nostrum. Ah Vlado, you're so rich and confident..
It is a very despairing thing for a country to be divided.
Unfortunately the Ukrainian people will find out, in a short while, what IMF realy means for their day to day life.
The poor will get poorer and poorer. The middle class will disappear. The very wealthy people and the "cooperative" media persons/brainwashers will get wealthier.
The current state properties will be sold out to the "market crows". So will the individual properties through the heavy and unfair extra taxation.
The unemployment will skyrocket.
They will turn one social class against the other.
No labor rights, lots of beating in the streets, justice not "blind" and say bye bye to the constitutional directives.
In the West, we get multiple news channels (state and commercial) from different countries. Most of them are western, but we do get Russia Today freely and easily, thanks to the Kremlin paying for the carriage of the channel.
We get to listen to the different sources.
Western sources say:
* Russian troops already in Crimea.
* The Ukrainian right wingers are very small in number.
* The bill to rescind Russian-speaking rights was vetoed by the Ukrainian president.
Russian sources say:
* Russian troops not in yet.
* Huge numbers of fascists involved in Ukraine.
* Russian-speakers in danger and losing their rights.
We receive multiple sources of information and we get to make our own decisions, right or wrong.
Whether you get that privilege is the choice that Russian-speaking people in Crimea, East Ukraine and Russia itself must make today.
OK, so now Ukranian forces are saying that the occupying Russian forces have given them a deadline of dawn to surrender - a very bad move if it's true. The Crimean militia gangs are going to take it as implicit Russian military backing for them to rush a Ukranian military base, try it on, and get themselves killed. After which Russia will start firing and Putin will have his war.
It is a very despairing thing for a country to be divided.
Unfortunately the Ukrainian people will find out, in a short while, what IMF realy means for their day to day life.
The poor will get poorer and poorer. The middle class will disappear. The very wealthy people and the "cooperative" media persons/brainwashers will get wealthier.
The current state properties will be sold out to the "market crows". So will the individual properties through the heavy and unfair extra taxation.
The unemployment will skyrocket.
They will turn one social class against the other.
No labor rights, lots of beating in the streets, justice not "blind" and say bye bye to the constitutional directives.
Comments
Monument to Kutuzov why demolished? What Kutuzov bad to Ukrainians made? Because Russian man?
Sevastopol is a Ukranian Naval Base. By agreement, parts of it are loaned to Russia. Russia does not own it, but they have decided to take control of it by force.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
What that is is an 'invasion'. That is an act of war. Russia is supposed to be a member of the G8 to PREVENT invasions of foreign territories.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
I will not hesitate to shut this thread down if you don't.
To you also. And the Ukrainian ships nobody expelled. One departured. Another is about the island of Crete. Seamen hoisted the Andreevsky flag. Nobody forced them it to do.
Russia anywhere doesn't send the armies. While there is an information war. I repeat, you watch BBC, CNN, EuroNews and others less. They started showing war in Georgia only when the Russian tanks there entered that Saakashvili's armies of all inhabitants of South Ossetia wouldn't kill. Before input of armies in general showed nothing.
About to send armies and to ruin the country, address to USA.
And yes, Russia consists in G8.
...
I leave a subject. You watch "free" BBC channels, and the Fifth channel of the Ukrainian television.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
There is no any 'independent TV channels' - it's a nonsence. It's just a way to control peoples. When i need some real info i'm just contact a real peoples from both sides and trying to understand each of sides. But when i see how USA with EU support bombing country by country is it OK ? :D
To be fair, EU it's just another USA state. Sometimes UK and Germany show us a independent face, but it's rarely.
When i hear ONE vision from "independent BBC" and ONE vision form "independent Russian TV" it's just a FUN. Where is an 'independent' ??? where is alternative vision ??? They must give us a different visions and we must start think. When they give me ONE vision it's just become MY vision.
We are just different. Nobody from EU not live in a little Russian city as me in 1990's. It was a real HELL. I was even scared to recall. Now i'm even have a time to write speccy games! I'm don't care about 'gays', 'freedom' and other 'democratic' toys. I'm just begining to live like a normal man for past 8 years. I can talk anything, i can do anything. There is no any controls from goverment, no any 'KGB' dudes.
EU still scared by "Komunizm Ghost" :) There is no more USSR. Time to change.
We are different, but we all love Speccy :)
It's all about dirty Politics, not about peoples like us :)
So let's move to other threads!
true... all governments operate in a hypocritical way, to a greater or lesser degree. which is why I don't think there are any 'good guys' when it comes to world superpowers
Nations infamous for invading other countries with trumped up excuses are now telling Russia that they've violated another country's sovereignty.
Of course, its nothing to do with the fact that Europe gets a third of its gas from Russia via a pipeline thats passes through the Ukraine......
Would you really consider split of Ukraine into two countries as a bad thing?
As I'm trying to understand the situation, there is a big difference conflict between western Ukraine and eastern+south Ukraine.
In the West they talk Ukrainian and don't like Russia.
In the East they talk Russian and like Russia.
They don't like each other
If they elect president from the East, people from the West will be angry.
If they elect president from the West, people from the East will be angry.
No good solution for all.
Wouldn't everybody be happier if they lived in two countries and wouldn't need to make some compromises all time?
I think if today Ukraine is a independent country it should return this 'symbolic present' back.
So historically Crimea is a Russian city. According to the 2001 Ukrainian population census 58% of the population of Crimea are ethnic Russians and 24% are ethnic Ukrainians. So do you really think Russia should just to forget about its citizens?
They can only pick on smaller, poorer and less well armed countries and when they do they need their gang with them. They DAREN'T pick on North Korea because they know North Korea can defend themselves, aren't scared of them and WILL retaliate.
Today all countries are 'smaller, poorer and less well armed' except of USA, Russia and China. Be realistic :lol: And other countries can only decide on whose side they are.
p.s. I am really against any military actions with our neighbors, especially Ukrainians. But this situation would't be if NATO did not try to get yourself Ukraine. I'm sure this madness must be stopped.
Foreign troops have invaded a sovereign territory. Russia tries to justify it by calling the Kiev revolution an act of terror that threatens the people of the Crimea. This is nonsense. It was an overthrow of a corrupt president who was stealing money from the state to fund his own lifestyle.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
Right now the dare is on the new Ukranian government to do anything about it, but they do not have the resources at the moment to contest the Crimea region.
If Russia starts to move beyond the Crimean Peninsula and enter the few Eastern Ukranian cities that still have Russian sympathies, then there is going to be fighting.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
JSpeccy-win32-portable
I so dream someday we also will have free elections here in Russia :-) but apparently it will not happen soon :o
By the way Putin was elected every time based on UE verification standards. haha. But no one here will tell you these are 'free elections'.
But in Russia and the Crimea, people are being told that the Crimeans are under threat from Kiev-controlled militia, and the troops are neccessary to protect them - which is equally not true at the moment.
However, let's be honest, Putin has a lot more than just the historical and strategic territory of the Crimea in mind - he's assuming the Crimea is already Russian, and looking to see what he can do in the rest of Ukraine. And there's more than Patriotism there - there are the interests of the very rich industrialists who keep him in power. That's where the risk of a war now lies.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
JSpeccy-win32-portable
Unfortunately the Ukrainian people will find out, in a short while, what IMF realy means for their day to day life.
The poor will get poorer and poorer. The middle class will disappear. The very wealthy people and the "cooperative" media persons/brainwashers will get wealthier.
The current state properties will be sold out to the "market crows". So will the individual properties through the heavy and unfair extra taxation.
The unemployment will skyrocket.
They will turn one social class against the other.
No labor rights, lots of beating in the streets, justice not "blind" and say bye bye to the constitutional directives.
From wherever the IMF passes, it leaves dust.
We get to listen to the different sources.
Western sources say:
* Russian troops already in Crimea.
* The Ukrainian right wingers are very small in number.
* The bill to rescind Russian-speaking rights was vetoed by the Ukrainian president.
Russian sources say:
* Russian troops not in yet.
* Huge numbers of fascists involved in Ukraine.
* Russian-speakers in danger and losing their rights.
We receive multiple sources of information and we get to make our own decisions, right or wrong.
Whether you get that privilege is the choice that Russian-speaking people in Crimea, East Ukraine and Russia itself must make today.
Yeah i'm sure that had Putin quaking in his boots.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
+1
Couldn't put it better myself...