Apple stuff has always been about the packaging. A ?1000 Mac is probably the same spec as a ?300 PC but packaged better. If you've got the money to waste, then great!?
Apple stuff has always been about the packaging. A ?1000 Mac is probably the same spec as a ?300 PC but packaged better. If you've got the money to waste, then great!?
This is yet just another myth.
You're comparing the base components against each other.
However, Apple makes custom main boards and IC's, and the OSX is specifically designed to take full advantage of the hardware, so that an equally specced Mac vs. PC, the Mac will outperform the PC.
Whole articles of this exist on the net, if you search for it.
They can do it because of the massive amount of money they make on each device they sell. It's not because they care about the customer, they care about their brand image & perception. Effectively you're buying a phone for ?600, that costs ?200 to manufacture.
Even after paying U2 millions - that's still shed loads of wonga.
I do agree that people are stupid sitting down with any large phone in their pockets, and not expecting it to bend. A 5" and above phone - you need combat trousers!
I'm afraid you're confusing price vs. value.
You must think of the value of the product when its in your hands, just works and you use it everyday, is reliable, has a solid build and a solid reputation. Then the initial purchase price becomes negligible.
An old saying goes:
"When you buy quality, you cry once. When you buy cheap crap, you cry often."
You said:
"It's not because they care about the customer, they care about their brand image & perception."
How are those things different from each other?
If you treat your customers like crap, they won't come back.
If Apple made sh*t products, you'd think people would buy them?
To keep a good brand image & perception, you need to treat your customers right.
In this day&age, how do you care about your customers without spending money?
You're comparing the base components against each other.
However, Apple makes custom main boards and IC's, and the OSX is specifically designed to take full advantage of the hardware, so that an equally specced Mac vs. PC, the Mac will outperform the PC.
Whole articles of this exist on the net, if you search for it.
Or.... spend just a bit more (but still a crap load less than an Apple) and get a far better specced Windows machine that will walk all over the Apple machine.
(There is no way an Apple advocate can win the specification vs. Cost argument - Apple products will always be far too expensive for their specification against Windows PCs).
Or.... spend just a bit more (but still a crap load less than an Apple) and get a far better specced Windows machine that will walk all over the Apple machine.
(There is no way an Apple advocate can win the specification vs. Cost argument - Apple products will always be far too expensive for their specification against Windows PCs).
You're absolutely right and dead wrong at the same time.
If you spend a little more money on a PC (but still less than an Apple mac) you'll get better performance e.t.c.
However, that is not the subject we're discussing here.
We're talking about S-I-M-I-L-A-R specs PC vs. Mac, not about what it cost you in $$$$
Not quite the same to compare fables & religion vs. measurable science in absolutes.
I think you're overstating the evidence for lizard people to call it "measurable science in absolutes", it's not quite that conclusive I fear, but you're bang on the money about Macs vs. PC articles being "fables and religion"
You must think of the value of the product when its in your hands, just works and you use it everyday, is reliable, has a solid build and a solid reputation. Then the initial purchase price becomes negligible.
An old saying goes:
"When you buy quality, you cry once. When you buy cheap crap, you cry often?
Quality? What like a phone that bends in your pocket.
Reliable? My Girlfriends latest Nano broke after 3 months
No, the argument boils down to 'why on earth would I spend twice as much on a similarly specced Apple when I can spend less and get more - much more'.
Again, you're comparing the components rather than the whole experience.
You also pay for the Mac OSX system (initially) which by the way is now being offered as free upgrades, whereas you must pay for Windows (unless you use Linux and such things)
I used to think that way too before I switched to Mac. I just see clearly now how things fit together.
You should try it yourself, at least a month or two and you might change your mind.
It really is an upgraded experience.
Again, you're comparing the components rather than the whole experience.
You also pay for the Mac OSX system (initially) which by the way is now being offered as free upgrades, whereas you must pay for Windows (unless you use Linux and such things)
I used to think that way too before I switched to Mac. I just see clearly now how things fit together.
You should try it yourself, at least a month or two and you might change your mind.
It really is an upgraded experience.
I think you're totally missing the point - I can get (or build) a Windows PC that totally outperforms a Mac in every single way, including the cost to buy Windows, for far less than it would cost for an Apple machine.
My whole experience would be a very happy man who not only has a wicked fast machine that does everything I want to do reliably, but I also saved a stack of cash.
Again, you cannot argue this. Only a man blinded by irrational love for something would do so stupidly. Oh, bugger, I'm talking to one now.
I used to think that way too before I switched to Mac. I just see clearly now how things fit together.
You should try it yourself, at least a month or two and you might change your mind.
It really is an upgraded experience.
I'm on my third iPhone. Got the 6 Plus ordered. Have an iPad (2 or 3, can't remember) and have an i7 MacBook Pro (a ?1700 piece of hardware that I use perhaps once a month)....and I still prefer Windows ANY day and plan to stick with Microsoft (so you can't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about). I agree with people being careless with their new hardware and breaking it because of that - and I also agree about the whole "experience" thing - I'm NOT a fan of Android phones (I handled my share of them at work). Well, it's the OS that I don't like - I suppose the hardware is okay, but I like Apple products because of the superb OS and the awesome hardware. Yes, I'm paying a premium for all that...and I know how to be careful and take good care of it (I've never broken ANY hardware)...
...but I'm not as big a fan of Apple than you are. I could go into detail but I'm sure everyone will know what I mean. You DO seem like a bit of a rabid Apple fan. I don't really care what other people think of my choices - good or bad - and will usually lay out all the facts for people asking for advice so they can make their own choice based on impartial facts. And then respect that choice. Except for those people laying in line outside Apple stores for weeks to be first in line for the new iWhatever. I want to kick those silly hipster ****ers in the nuts and tell them to get a ****ing grip. Nope, no respect for them. But most other people - also Android users, yes.
Dude, most of us here are 40+ and personally I ****ing hate people telling me that "what I'm doing is wrong and *this* is the right way" ...and I can't imagine many other people around my age feeling any differently. Relax with the pro-Apple speeches. At this point in our lives you're not going to convice anyone their choice is the wrong one.
If, as you say, the experience is what it's all about then why do Apple offer, officially, programs and drivers to allow you to run Windows on Mac hardware. By your argument surely that destroys the experience and then your just left paying for very expensive hardware.
As soon as Apple went to using intel then all the laptops and desktops just became very expensive PC's which is also proved by the fact you can install OSX on non Apple hardware.
As soon as Apple went to using intel then all the laptops and desktops just became very expensive PC's which is also proved by the fact you can install OSX on non Apple hardware.
Indeed, the only reason that the argument 'Apple makes custom ICs' etc... is that they make shiny cases and have to have custom designed boards to fit them in - the actual chips onboard are all the same, just the PCB that custom. I know, I've looked at all the tear-down site information for the iMacs and Mac Pros. All standard PC parts soldered onto a custom PCB.
What that results in is standard PC parts on a custom board that makes it an absolute bugger to upgrade and costs 2-3 times more.
Sod that, why on earth would I throw money at a stupid closed system like that???
As soon as Apple went to using intel then all the laptops and desktops just became very expensive PC's which is also proved by the fact you can install OSX on non Apple hardware.
Not easily though. But it's possible...which is nice. I'm running a virtual 'Hackintosh' for whatever small tasks I need - so I don't have to use my actual Mac more than I have to. I basically only use my real machine for when I need to compile OSX versions of my games. So it works both ways - being able to run Windows on Mac hardware and running OSX on standard "Windows" hardware.
Apple running their OS on the same processor as Microsoft does have couple advantages though: a choice of programmers from a pool of more experienced developers than what they had when they were running on PowerPC processors (I'm guessing they're using a C variant, but they'd also need low-level coders that can optimize for the processor).
...and then being able to run Windows on the Apple hardware? ...well, that's genious! -now they've expanded their customer base to include those who like the Apple hardware but would prefer to run Windows. Brilliant. That's good business.
Nope, Poor design (everyone puts there phone in there pocket. Duh!)
and the Nano was a sound problem. So I guess your right! We used it to
Play music and it couldn't! Our fault entirely for buying the peice of s***
You must think of the value of the product when its in your hands, just works and you use it everyday, is reliable, has a solid build and a solid reputation. Then the initial purchase price becomes negligible.
An old saying goes:
"When you buy quality, you cry once. When you buy cheap crap, you cry often."
*Cough* iOS 8.0.1 recent stuff up.
Apple can/do drop the ball, just as easily as any other company.
C'mon guys Hedegaard is a totally one-eyed Apple fanboy. He will never see or say anything anti-Apple. They are the ultimate perfectionists in his eyes, which is sad because he'll never see or experience what other systems have to offer.
If, as you say, the experience is what it's all about then why do Apple offer, officially, programs and drivers to allow you to run Windows on Mac hardware. By your argument surely that destroys the experience and then your just left paying for very expensive hardware.
As soon as Apple went to using intel then all the laptops and desktops just became very expensive PC's which is also proved by the fact you can install OSX on non Apple hardware.
The IT department of our sister company insists that all the developers work on Apple laptops, but the first thing they do is install the latest flavour of Windows and get Visual Studio on. The reason for it is if any client tours the building they see some hipsters developing on 'cool' Apple hardware. Completely f****ng moronic (and expensive) IMO.
Fortunately I don't have to abide by that stupid rule and I'm as productive on my HP laptop, that cost ?300 in 2010 (add another ?50 for the SSD). It's still going strong and is like greased-lightning.
We've got plenty of Apple products at home, so I'm not anti-Apple at all. 3 iPhones, 2 iPad 4's (mini and full) and a couple of iPod Touches. Yes, I really like them all, but I've not touched an iPad in the 12 months that I've had my Kindle Fire. That also does everything I need it to, does it quickly, very rarely crashes and the experience of using the tablet is perfect. The iPads offer nothing over it. Plus it cost ?85 rather than ?299...
Comments
Or a shirt...
Oh yeah, Facebook...
Apple are no strangers to negative advertising. Remember the I'm a Mac / I'm a PC adverts?
Of course these days Apple prefer to stifle the competition with lawsuits instead.
My Sony Xperia, and other high-end Android phones say different. Typically they cost just as much as an iPhone but are much more capable devices.
This is yet just another myth.
You're comparing the base components against each other.
However, Apple makes custom main boards and IC's, and the OSX is specifically designed to take full advantage of the hardware, so that an equally specced Mac vs. PC, the Mac will outperform the PC.
Whole articles of this exist on the net, if you search for it.
Ok, my mistake, my apologies :)
All governments of Earth have been replaced by alien lizard creatures dressed in people suits.
Whole articles of this exist on the net, if you search for it.
Just sayin....
I'm afraid you're confusing price vs. value.
You must think of the value of the product when its in your hands, just works and you use it everyday, is reliable, has a solid build and a solid reputation. Then the initial purchase price becomes negligible.
An old saying goes:
"When you buy quality, you cry once. When you buy cheap crap, you cry often."
You said:
"It's not because they care about the customer, they care about their brand image & perception."
How are those things different from each other?
If you treat your customers like crap, they won't come back.
If Apple made sh*t products, you'd think people would buy them?
To keep a good brand image & perception, you need to treat your customers right.
In this day&age, how do you care about your customers without spending money?
Or.... spend just a bit more (but still a crap load less than an Apple) and get a far better specced Windows machine that will walk all over the Apple machine.
(There is no way an Apple advocate can win the specification vs. Cost argument - Apple products will always be far too expensive for their specification against Windows PCs).
Not quite the same to compare fables & religion vs. measurable science in absolutes.
You're absolutely right and dead wrong at the same time.
If you spend a little more money on a PC (but still less than an Apple mac) you'll get better performance e.t.c.
However, that is not the subject we're discussing here.
We're talking about S-I-M-I-L-A-R specs PC vs. Mac, not about what it cost you in $$$$
I think you're overstating the evidence for lizard people to call it "measurable science in absolutes", it's not quite that conclusive I fear, but you're bang on the money about Macs vs. PC articles being "fables and religion"
Quality? What like a phone that bends in your pocket.
Reliable? My Girlfriends latest Nano broke after 3 months
No, the argument boils down to 'why on earth would I spend twice as much on a similarly specced Apple when I can spend less and get more - much more'.
Both attributed to careless & negligent use.
Again, you're comparing the components rather than the whole experience.
You also pay for the Mac OSX system (initially) which by the way is now being offered as free upgrades, whereas you must pay for Windows (unless you use Linux and such things)
I used to think that way too before I switched to Mac. I just see clearly now how things fit together.
You should try it yourself, at least a month or two and you might change your mind.
It really is an upgraded experience.
I think you're totally missing the point - I can get (or build) a Windows PC that totally outperforms a Mac in every single way, including the cost to buy Windows, for far less than it would cost for an Apple machine.
My whole experience would be a very happy man who not only has a wicked fast machine that does everything I want to do reliably, but I also saved a stack of cash.
Again, you cannot argue this. Only a man blinded by irrational love for something would do so stupidly. Oh, bugger, I'm talking to one now.
I'm on my third iPhone. Got the 6 Plus ordered. Have an iPad (2 or 3, can't remember) and have an i7 MacBook Pro (a ?1700 piece of hardware that I use perhaps once a month)....and I still prefer Windows ANY day and plan to stick with Microsoft (so you can't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about). I agree with people being careless with their new hardware and breaking it because of that - and I also agree about the whole "experience" thing - I'm NOT a fan of Android phones (I handled my share of them at work). Well, it's the OS that I don't like - I suppose the hardware is okay, but I like Apple products because of the superb OS and the awesome hardware. Yes, I'm paying a premium for all that...and I know how to be careful and take good care of it (I've never broken ANY hardware)...
...but I'm not as big a fan of Apple than you are. I could go into detail but I'm sure everyone will know what I mean. You DO seem like a bit of a rabid Apple fan. I don't really care what other people think of my choices - good or bad - and will usually lay out all the facts for people asking for advice so they can make their own choice based on impartial facts. And then respect that choice. Except for those people laying in line outside Apple stores for weeks to be first in line for the new iWhatever. I want to kick those silly hipster ****ers in the nuts and tell them to get a ****ing grip. Nope, no respect for them. But most other people - also Android users, yes.
Dude, most of us here are 40+ and personally I ****ing hate people telling me that "what I'm doing is wrong and *this* is the right way" ...and I can't imagine many other people around my age feeling any differently. Relax with the pro-Apple speeches. At this point in our lives you're not going to convice anyone their choice is the wrong one.
My games for the Spectrum: Dingo, The Speccies, The Speccies 2, Vallation, SQIJ.
Twitter: Sokurah
As soon as Apple went to using intel then all the laptops and desktops just became very expensive PC's which is also proved by the fact you can install OSX on non Apple hardware.
Indeed, the only reason that the argument 'Apple makes custom ICs' etc... is that they make shiny cases and have to have custom designed boards to fit them in - the actual chips onboard are all the same, just the PCB that custom. I know, I've looked at all the tear-down site information for the iMacs and Mac Pros. All standard PC parts soldered onto a custom PCB.
What that results in is standard PC parts on a custom board that makes it an absolute bugger to upgrade and costs 2-3 times more.
Sod that, why on earth would I throw money at a stupid closed system like that???
Not easily though. But it's possible...which is nice. I'm running a virtual 'Hackintosh' for whatever small tasks I need - so I don't have to use my actual Mac more than I have to. I basically only use my real machine for when I need to compile OSX versions of my games. So it works both ways - being able to run Windows on Mac hardware and running OSX on standard "Windows" hardware.
Apple running their OS on the same processor as Microsoft does have couple advantages though: a choice of programmers from a pool of more experienced developers than what they had when they were running on PowerPC processors (I'm guessing they're using a C variant, but they'd also need low-level coders that can optimize for the processor).
...and then being able to run Windows on the Apple hardware? ...well, that's genious! -now they've expanded their customer base to include those who like the Apple hardware but would prefer to run Windows. Brilliant. That's good business.
My games for the Spectrum: Dingo, The Speccies, The Speccies 2, Vallation, SQIJ.
Twitter: Sokurah
Nope, Poor design (everyone puts there phone in there pocket. Duh!)
and the Nano was a sound problem. So I guess your right! We used it to
Play music and it couldn't! Our fault entirely for buying the peice of s***
*Cough* iOS 8.0.1 recent stuff up.
Apple can/do drop the ball, just as easily as any other company.
The IT department of our sister company insists that all the developers work on Apple laptops, but the first thing they do is install the latest flavour of Windows and get Visual Studio on. The reason for it is if any client tours the building they see some hipsters developing on 'cool' Apple hardware. Completely f****ng moronic (and expensive) IMO.
Fortunately I don't have to abide by that stupid rule and I'm as productive on my HP laptop, that cost ?300 in 2010 (add another ?50 for the SSD). It's still going strong and is like greased-lightning.
Android phones tend to return to their original shape after being bent.
Apple have not yet implemented that feature. Maybe saving it for the 6s plus?