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Denied Games

WellingWelling
edited March 2015 in Games
A friend of mine said that the copyright laws for games only last for 30 years. If this is the case all spectrum games made before 1985 become freeware!?

Is this correct? I really wanted to download R-Type to see why it is rated so high. As I have never played it and a desperate to try.

Any one know the answer please?

Thanks Ben
Post edited by Welling on
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Comments

  • BuzzySoundsBuzzySounds
    edited February 2015
    Welling wrote: »
    A friend of mine said that the copyright laws for games only last for 30 years. If this is the case all spectrum games made before 1985 become freeware!?

    Is this correct? I really wanted to download R-Type to see why it is rated so high. As I have never played it and a desperate to try.

    Any one know the answer please?

    Thanks Ben

    Just download it and enjoy it. I'm sure the police have more pressing matters than questioning people about downloading Sinclair Spectrum games.
  • Zaph0ddZaph0dd
    edited February 2015
    Copyright depends on the country involved for original publication,

    For the UK, its 70 years AFTER the death of a major person involved in the process of creating it.
  • RalfRalf
    edited February 2015
    For the UK, its 70 years AFTER the death of a major person involved in the process of creating it.

    That's completely weird but true. You'll have to wait till year 2120 or so

    Or just download it and enjoy it :)
  • Antiriad2097Antiriad2097
    edited February 2015
    Is that the case where a company (like Irem) own the copyright?
  • Ox.Ox.
    edited February 2015
    UK law should be updated to apply a little common sense - I think that unless the copyright owner has shown intention to protect their copyright after every 5 year interval then after 15 year it should be fair game to download, ie public domain. The current UK and US software copyright law is complete ******** imho.
  • RobeeeJayRobeeeJay
    edited February 2015
    Ox. wrote: »
    UK law should be updated to apply a little common sense - I think that unless the copyright owner has shown intention to protect their copyright after every 5 year interval then after 15 year it should be fair game to download, ie public domain. The current UK and US software copyright law is complete ******** imho.

    I'm not sure it should go as far as being public domain, because people shouldn't be allowed to make money off the back of someone else's work. But it is certainly silly that the Ultimate Play the Game titles (amongst others) cannot be legally downloaded, despite being easy to buy second hand in a way that makes no money for the copyright holder.

    And digital works should be protected from vanishing from history by preservation, which mostly happens against the immediate wishes of a lot of companies. Libraries already do it with books.

    At least UK patent law isn't as bad as the joke that is US patent law. :) Or even China's copyright laws, which seem to basically be non-existent!
  • GreenCardGreenCard
    edited February 2015
    A thread about denied games. Should I get the popcorn in now? ;)
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    RobeeeJay wrote: »
    because people shouldn't be allowed to make money off the back of someone else's work.



    Copyrightable works are very small fishes in that pond of inequity.


    The best thing about our absurd copyright laws is how unenforcable they are unless the holder is willing to go to great time and expense holding it up; and of course the Great British attitude of ignoring petty laws - viva hooky street.
  • gasmangasman
    edited February 2015
    Welling wrote: »
    A friend of mine said that the copyright laws for games only last for 30 years.

    As they say on Wikipedia: [citation needed].

    There's a lot of made-up nonsense on the internet about copyright law regarding retro computing, mostly from people trying to fob off eBay moderators so that their "10000 R@RE retro games for a tenner" DVD compilations don't get taken down. Unless your friend is a lawyer, I'd be inclined to trust the information on Wikipedia more.

    But as other people have pointed out, the chance of a copyright holder actually chasing you up over downloading a 30 year old game is minimal.
  • GrazGraz
    edited February 2015
    You should have bought the game when it came out.

    Or just go on ebay and buy one.

    Job done.
  • paranoid marvinparanoid marvin
    edited February 2015
    There's a big difference between a company saying that they don't allow their games to be downloaded, and them actually doing something about it. By denying people free access to their software. they can come down heavily on someone wanting to profit from their work, yet turn a blind eye to anyone just wanting a quick go on Atic Atac.
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    You should have bought the game when it came out.

    worst advice ever
  • RetroTechieRetroTechie
    edited February 2015
    Copyright law (and the manner in which those laws come into existence!) is so totally, utterly fubar-ed these days, :x that all a reasonable person can do is
    Ralf wrote: »
    Or just download it and enjoy it :)
    Nevermind that (imho) copyright terms should depend on the type of medium, and beside that, *not* on when an author dies. Copyright royalties shouldn't provide income for an entire author's life, his/her children and a generation beyond that. :o Something in the order of 10-20 years is plenty. If that doesn't provide author with enough to retire on, he/she should come up with something new, or get a regular job like everybody else.

    In the case of a book, eg. 20, 30 years or so doesn't sound too unreasonable. In the case of computer software, that's like forever... 5~10 years or so would be more appropriate there.

    Don't worry though... if the unauthorized copying is small-scale, you're not making money from it, and the material is more than a few years old, no one will care.
  • GrazGraz
    edited February 2015
    We do keep going over this copyright malarkey a lot. As it stands, the law is adequate. The only people who complain are those who don't have their own ideas.

    20 years?! Well if that was the case, I wouldn't have access to my own work right now. I think 50 years after death is fine. But the author should pass his/her work on in a will to ensure it stays in the family if that is their wish.

    Ghostbusters the game, and Ghostbusters the film/book should be treated equally.
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    The only people who complain are those who don't have their own ideas.

    wrong
  • RetroTechieRetroTechie
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    As it stands, the law is adequate.
    'Adequate' in what way? In terms of copyright's original intention, today's laws are totally missing their mark. For example: the ZX Spectrum was introduced in ehm.. 1982? Since then millions have been built, there's been a string of successor models, other systems following it (Amiga, Atari ST), PC's have gone through 286, 386, ..., Core 2 Duo etc generations, the Raspberry Pi was introduced and recently updated into a version 2. Semiconductor technology has gone from 1000s to billions of transistors on a chip. Yet, despite of that, ALL ZX Spectrum software EVER written is still tied down under copyright law. Forbidden to be distributed, re-used as part of other software, sold as part of a collection etc, unless you have permission of the original author. Who may be dead, impossible to find, or even unknown as in "can't determine who wrote xyz".

    How the law serves the public here, is beyond me. :evil: And that's just one of countless examples, that each apply to vast amounts of creative works. No wonder half or more of the plebs don't give a **** and just do as they please.

    And don't get me started on things like lobbyists, corrupt politicians & their ties to the likes of Disney, Warner & co. Or how copyright laws are slipped in with trade agreements.

    Yes these discussions can get tiresome, but it's worth having them once in a while as long as things are the way they are. If only to point out what's broken, to those who think nothing is wrong.
    20 years?! Well if that was the case, I wouldn't have access to my own work right now.
    Care to explain? :confused: If a copyright expires, the work enters the public domain, right? Perhaps you're confusing "access" with "own the copyright" ?
    I think 50 years after death is fine. But the author should pass his/her work on in a will to ensure it stays in the family if that is their wish.
    If I'm not mistaken, that's what normally happens even if an author didn't leave a will. In that sense the "right to control if/how a work is distributed" is treated much the same as physical possessions like houses, cars, etc.
  • MorkinMorkin
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    You should have bought the game when it came out.

    Or just bung me 50p, a packet of rolos and a blank C60.

    Job done.

    Fixed.. ;-)
  • GrazGraz
    edited February 2015
    RetroTechie wrote: »
    . If only to point out what's broken, to those who think nothing is wrong.

    It's not broken. It just needs enforcing more, and maybe tightening up. Talk here sounds of Communism, and that ain't good at all.
    RetroTechie wrote: »
    Care to explain? :confused: If a copyright expires, the work enters the public domain, right? Perhaps you're confusing "access" with "own the copyright" ?

    I'm saying that if my work had just 20 years before expiring and entered public domain, then you greedy gannets would be over it all already. As of yet, I haven't made a penny from it and I've far from finished with it.
    RetroTechie wrote: »
    If I'm not mistaken, that's what normally happens even if an author didn't leave a will. In that sense the "right to control if/how a work is distributed" is treated much the same as physical possessions like houses, cars, etc.

    Cool.


    20 years. Your life's work, your heart and soul. The centre of arguments, the cause of anguish, and the final true delight of it. You share it with the world, you get pittance in return, and before you can even blink, some git wants it for nothing. Jeez! That's what's broken with the world.



    On an unrelated note...

    - Hi Howard.
    - Oh, Hi Terry. Not seen you for years.
    - Yeah, been really busy.
    - What you been up to?
    - I'm a leccy now. Got me own van 'n' everything.
    - Great, so how long have you been doing that?
    - 20 years or so.
    - Excellent. You can re-wire my house for nothing.
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    'm saying that if my work had just 20 years before expiring and entered public domain, then you greedy gannets would be over it all already. As of yet, I haven't made a penny from it and I've far from finished with it.

    I very much doubt it

    That it has made so little money for you might suggest that it lacks the quality to do so.
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    You can re-wire my house for nothing.

    a re-wire is a NEW job you dolt

    I'm starting to see why you are not making as much money as you expect or want.
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    It's not broken. It just needs enforcing more, and maybe tightening up.

    yeah, we've got all these courts with nothing better to do than sort out people infringing copyright..



    That's what lawyers and the civil courts are for...if you think your copyright is worth protecting, protect it yourself. The machinery is there. Hire a lawyer; but remember the bard was right about lawyers;
  • MinerWillyMinerWilly
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    I'm saying that if my work had just 20 years before expiring and entered public domain, then you greedy gannets would be over it all already. As of yet, I haven't made a penny from it and I've far from finished with it.

    I'm intrigued, show us some samples of what you're working on!
  • GrazGraz
    edited February 2015
    weesam wrote: »
    I very much doubt it.

    You very much doubt what?
    weesam wrote: »
    That it has made so little money for you might suggest that it lacks the quality to do so.


    I didn't say little, I inferred it had made nothing. But that's not the issue. I don't expect to make a bundle on any of my works, but I do expect them to remain mine throughout my life, so that I may work with them how I, and parties I have legally appointed, see fit.
  • GrazGraz
    edited February 2015
    ...removed... double post
  • rich_chandlerrich_chandler
    edited February 2015
    Can we do without the name-calling please otherwise I'll lock the thread.
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • SkoolKidSkoolKid
    edited February 2015
    Where did the OP go?

    I hope he just stopped worrying, downloaded R-Type, and enjoyed it.

    Welling, let us know!
    SkoolKit - disassemble a game today
    Pyskool - a remake of Skool Daze and Back to Skool
  • RalfRalf
    edited February 2015
    Can we do without the name-calling please otherwise I'll lock the thread.

    Better lock it now, there's never any good from such threads.

    Actually forums rules could be adjusted :)
    C) Discussions of religions or religious philosophies, cultural differences, sex, sexual orientation, freedom of speech, politics and governments and copyrights tend to end in flame wars and trading insults. Please remember that the majority of these discussions end up being locked.
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    Graz wrote: »
    You very much doubt what?
    that greedy gannets would be all over your, erm, "work"

    It's not making anything (nor will it ever, unlike the sparky's craft), maybe you should try to give it away...total loss leader as it were
  • weesamweesam
    edited February 2015
    Discussions of.....freedom of speech.....end up being locked.

    delicious irony
  • redballoonredballoon
    edited February 2015
    Once work goes online it's out there. Once that happens, there's only 2 things I'd like to see 1) if any other is going to use it then as long as I'm credited somewhere then that's fine and 2) that nobody is making money from my work where I'm not got that money.

    I usually go after those that do - I've done it a couple of times and succeeded.
    Unfortunately there are d1cks out there - individuals and large companies who should know better - who will ignore you and claim your work is their work.
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