The way the world has changed for the worse, where people think they have a right to something, just because they WANT it. I saw a show on TV where a thief said he had a right to a mans wallet, in fact, more of a right to it than the man who owned it, just because he had more than the thief.
That's also how business works today as well, the ones with the biggest greed, the biggest wallets, the biggest feet to stomp on people are the ones who get it all.
Well I have a wallet well stuffed with fake notes, which any lowlife who wants it, is welcome to it, I have already given one away to a pickpocket and will continue to replace any I lose. Yes they cost about ?1.50 to produce, but it is worth it to imagine the anger the thief will go through when they realise " They have become the victim " by losing a few hundred pounds, which were never theirs in the first place !
Theft is theft, stealing has never been right, it just shows the greed of people who want something for nothing, thinking it belongs to them because they are entitled to it.
Would they do a weeks work for nothing if their boss said they were not paying them that week, just because they feel equally entitled to the money as the worker ? I think not !
Every time I read that the oldest person in the world has died, I have to do a quick check to see it isn't ME..........
Well I have a wallet well stuffed with fake notes, which any lowlife who wants it, is welcome to it, I have already given one away to a pickpocket and will continue to replace any I lose. Yes they cost about ?1.50 to produce, but it is worth it to imagine the anger the thief will go through when they realise " They have become the victim " by losing a few hundred pounds, which were never theirs in the first place !
That is such a smart idea, grey key. Love ya style.
Did you write the "Don't Copy that Floppy" and "You Wouldn't Steal a Car?" adverts? :)
I love the fact that the, "You wouldn't steal a car" adverts were later done for copyright infringements. They didn't have rights to the music used in the advert! Gotcha! :D
Which says that you accept these 'ooky copies and dodgy downloads over the real deal, simply because you can't be arsed to part with your pennies.
What if the real deal doesn't exist?
Frankly, if you claim you have never used copyright material without paying for it, you're either a liar, or have lived a VERY sheltered existence.
Did you never, for example, make a mix-tape for your girlfriends for example? Everybody has done that....right?
Never copy a spectrum game, or pass around the copy at school?....everybody with a spectrum did that....right?
What about recording a gig? Or buying the tapes from the bootlegger after the show? Never done that?
Is it morally wrong to buy a book and pass it on to your wife or friend to read? Or should they have to buy the book too? What's the difference between 2 people reading one book or two people reading two books? Have you never borrowed a book from somebody?
What about pirate games? Somebody posted on another thread a screenshot of the pirate versions of Street Fighter 2. Would you never be curious to have a go at such a game?
What if Great Giana Sisters WAS found for the spectrum and released? Would you play it despite Nintendo?
You are taking an absolute moral stance that is at odds with how the vast majority of people behave.
The law is supposed to protect the individual and not the group, well in theory anyway.
The individual should have the rights to keep his copyright even if the group wants to get his stuff for free.
Never copy a spectrum game, or pass around the copy at school?....everybody with a spectrum did that....right?
Nope. I received a couple of copied cassettes at school. As soon as I saw them, I bought the legit versions. They come on nicer tapes and have boxes 'n' artwork, and the all-important story. :)
Interesting story about that TV series. Let's see if I get some facts straight here:
We're talking about a TV series, that aired in 1984 & 1985 (so indeed that's 30 years ago).
Which is based on a set of novels, written in 1967 + 1968 (that's 47 years ago).
(I'm assuming) around the time of the TV series, some model kits were sold.
Whatever company produced those, stopped doing so long ago.
During ALL this time, both author of the novels, producers of the TV series, and producers of the original model kits, enjoyed an artificial, government-granted, legal construct that gave them a monopoly on distributing the TV series + related merchandise.
Recently, actual fans of the series started selling cheap knock-off model kits (and in doing so, obviously catered to a demand).
Those knock-offs don't degrade the artistic value of original model kits, or the TV series in any way (or if so: regardless of copyrights, "moral rights" discussed earlier could come into play). And may also help to re-new interest in the TV series.
In the meanwhile, nothing stopped original seller of those model kits to keep on selling them.
And even today, nothing stops original seller from either selling cheap model kits too, or sell a higher-quality version. Or both.
Sales of the cheap knock-offs, and an inability to sell higher priced ones (at least not profitable), suggests the public prefers those cheap knock-offs.
I'd be delighted if anyone could answer the questions below, because I'm genuinely interested in the answers. In the face of above facts:
For the writer of those novels, 47 years wasn't long enough to recoup his investment?
For the BBC (and partners), 30 years wasn't enough to recoup their investment in making the TV series?
For whoever produced those model kits originally, 30 years wasn't enough to recoup their investment?
Why/how would it be in the public's interest, if sales of those cheap knock-offs were forbidden?
If not in the public's interest: why (but ONLY after 30 years have passed!) should the copyright holders' interests weigh heavier than the interests of the public?
Would it make any difference whether those knock-off model kits were straight copies, or original artwork by novel / TV series-inspired fans?
Btw. general tidbit of info: copyright infringement does NOT equal theft. Copyrights and physical objects have fundamentally different properties. And therefore: who regards those 2 as being the same thing, is misinformed.
Thing is, I'm going to have to get into the hardware side of things at some point, as I'm gonna need to know how these things tick if I'm to keep 'em going.
The law is supposed to protect the individual and not the group, well in theory anyway.
You'd be right in the case of an individual's personal safety, integrity of his/her body, physical well-being, etc. The few people who disagree with that, are generally regarded as ***holes (at best) or criminals.
You'd be right in the case of an individual's physical possessions. But note that even the concept of "owning" physical possessions, is just a legal construct / social contract. Just one that feels more natural, so that the vast majority of people agree with, and respect it (or know they're doing something wrong).
Copyrights are another category alltogether, though. And thus
The individual should have the rights to keep his copyright even if the group wants to get his stuff for free.
But note that even the concept of "owning" physical possessions, is just a legal construct / social contract. Just one that feels more natural, so that the vast majority of people agree with, and respect it (or know they're doing something wrong).
Copyrights are another category alltogether, though. And thus
Quote:
The individual should have the rights to keep his copyright even if the group wants to get his stuff for free.
is a matter of opinion, and open to debate.
Do you think that the main reason loads of people illegally download movies and music is because they disagree in principle with copyright law: as if they're taking a position against a law they believe to be morally wrong?
I don't. I believe the most common reason for illegal downloading is because it's an easy way to get an excellent or perfect copy of something for free, and there's little chance of being caught and punished.
If illegal downloading was made easier to punish- for example, by making ISPs cancel the accounts of people caught doing it- I don't think there would be mass protests on the street. Most people illegally downloading stuff know that they don't have a moral or legal leg to stand on.
Well, how about if I'm insulted by your posts: your misplaced self-installed sense of superiority is disrespectful.
Where's the ban hammer when you need one?
Oh, no. Every time you turn up something monumental and terrible happens.
I don’t think I have the stomach for it.
--Raziel (Legend of Kain: Soul Reaver 2)
Nope. I received a couple of copied cassettes at school. As soon as I saw them, I bought the legit versions. They come on nicer tapes and have boxes 'n' artwork, and the all-important story. :)
A 60 minute cassette usually had ten or more games on them. You went and bought that amount of originals rightaway in one go? I wish i had that kind of money to move around with as a kid, or now for that matter.
But note that even the concept of "owning" physical possessions, is just a legal construct / social contract. Just one that feels more natural, so that the vast majority of people agree with, and respect it (or know they're doing something wrong).
Er, so's not smashing people's heads in before you take their stuff.
Do you think that the main reason loads of people illegally download movies and music is because they disagree in principle with copyright law: as if they're taking a position against a law they believe to be morally wrong?
The vaaassst majority of people simply don't know, understand, or care enough to take a position, vote with their $$, or write to their politicians. For the most part, they just ignore copyright laws. Which (imho, given the laws that are on the books) is the only reasonable thing to do anyway. :lol:
I believe the most common reason for illegal downloading is because it's an easy way to get an excellent or perfect copy of something for free, and there's little chance of being caught and punished.
That too - probably a big one. But it has been proven repeatedly, that people are willing to "do the right thing", when given an easy way to do so. However a legal alternative for many of the things people do, either
Does not exist.
Isn't available in their country.
Doesn't provide stuff in convenient formats.
Comes only as a subscription service, when all you wanted was a single song / game (or vice versa).
Is DRM-protected so that people can't format-shift material, can't play stuff on devices they're legally allowed to use, fix software if buggy, etc.
A variety of similar reasons.
So regardless of price (!), piracy often provides a superior product. Which makes it only logical that people resort to that.
In the meanwhile P2P file sharing methods have been so much improved, and become so easy to use, that even with legal alternatives slowly becoming available, those options are fighting an uphill battle. Which is fine: the RIAA's, MPAA's, Disney's, Warners etc of this world only have themselves to blame for the current situation.
If illegal downloading was made easier to punish- for example, by making ISPs cancel the accounts of people caught doing it-
Contrary to what one may think, I'd be all for it if copyright laws were immediately, worldwide, 100% enforced. That would wipe out large swats of people's music / game collections, remove a large portion of fun / useful stuff from the internet, make it impossible to get a preview of many things, wipe many people's PC if they were running a pirated OS, reduce their software collection to just a few programs as to make their PC's near-useless, make many jobs / hobbies a lot more complicated and/or expensive, and drag half the population into court. Making it obvious to the masses how ridiculous the laws on the books are. And prove
I don't think there would be mass protests on the street.
that assumption wrong.
Of course this won't happen when those laws are easy to sidestep, and only a few unlucky saps :cry: are hit by a pack of lawyers.
As for myself, I've long lost hope that copyright law will be fixed. So I vote with my feet / $$. Material that comes in a convenient format, at a reasonable price, and is easy to move onto different media / play on devices of my choice, has a much, much higher chance of getting my $$ than DRM-protected, shiny discs. So that maybe over time, economics will change the available options. But that's just me...
A 60 minute cassette usually had ten or more games on them. You went and bought that amount of originals rightaway in one go? I wish i had that kind of money to move around with as a kid, or now for that matter.
Exactly, most kids got a game for their birthday, and maybe 1 or 2 for christmas; and that was that.
I'd have played about 10 spectrum games if they were all legit copies. For a lot of kids, the only games they ever played were copies.
Countless musicians got into music via bootlegs and pirates, and listening to pirate radio. That was and IS where the real music scene is. Its not on CDs and endlessly re-issued vinyl that the major labels pump out. I don't know of a music fan that doesn't have plenty of bootlegs and pirates, and hold them more precious than official releases. Such things are shibboleth to music lovers. Before the internet one would go to Camden on a Sunday morning to get the tapes of the gigs from the week before (true story - I bumped into Bowie at a stall in Camden after his gig at the Town and Country Club in 1989, he was buying a recording of his own gig).
Dimadozen is one of the best sites on the net. It provides music fans a product that official record companies have NO interest in putting out. The quality now is fantastic, recordings are being cleaned up, mixed, balanced; by fans who know what the product should be. And then there are the basement tapes and demos that fans get hold off, and release. Thats what it is all about.
Those knock-offs don't degrade the artistic value of original model kits, or the TV series in any way
They do. They are being passed off as the originals, and they are not.
[QUOTE=RetroTechie;821125
In the meanwhile, nothing stopped original seller of those model kits to keep on selling them.
And even today, nothing stops original seller from either selling cheap model kits too, or sell a higher-quality version. Or both..[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
The piracy stopped it. It was no longer a viable project. No choice but to cut losses.
Sales of the cheap knock-offs, and an inability to sell higher priced ones (at least not profitable), suggests the public prefers those cheap knock-offs.
Not when they saw what they could have had if they'd waited. It was all, 'Oh, that would have been good. I'll still buy one!' Sorry, but the project is closed now. Your actions, and that of the pirates, scared off all interested backers. Too unstable.
Oh yes, indeed, someone else will have to take it over. And I expect they will, one day.
We had to fight really hard to get the actual series released on DVD. That too was pirated in Europe prior to release, but we managed to convince the 2Entertain company to push on. It delayed the release for quite a while though.
Comments
That's also how business works today as well, the ones with the biggest greed, the biggest wallets, the biggest feet to stomp on people are the ones who get it all.
Well I have a wallet well stuffed with fake notes, which any lowlife who wants it, is welcome to it, I have already given one away to a pickpocket and will continue to replace any I lose. Yes they cost about ?1.50 to produce, but it is worth it to imagine the anger the thief will go through when they realise " They have become the victim " by losing a few hundred pounds, which were never theirs in the first place !
Theft is theft, stealing has never been right, it just shows the greed of people who want something for nothing, thinking it belongs to them because they are entitled to it.
Would they do a weeks work for nothing if their boss said they were not paying them that week, just because they feel equally entitled to the money as the worker ? I think not !
That is such a smart idea, grey key. Love ya style.
I love the fact that the, "You wouldn't steal a car" adverts were later done for copyright infringements. They didn't have rights to the music used in the advert! Gotcha! :D
What if the real deal doesn't exist?
Frankly, if you claim you have never used copyright material without paying for it, you're either a liar, or have lived a VERY sheltered existence.
Did you never, for example, make a mix-tape for your girlfriends for example? Everybody has done that....right?
Never copy a spectrum game, or pass around the copy at school?....everybody with a spectrum did that....right?
What about recording a gig? Or buying the tapes from the bootlegger after the show? Never done that?
Is it morally wrong to buy a book and pass it on to your wife or friend to read? Or should they have to buy the book too? What's the difference between 2 people reading one book or two people reading two books? Have you never borrowed a book from somebody?
What about pirate games? Somebody posted on another thread a screenshot of the pirate versions of Street Fighter 2. Would you never be curious to have a go at such a game?
What if Great Giana Sisters WAS found for the spectrum and released? Would you play it despite Nintendo?
You are taking an absolute moral stance that is at odds with how the vast majority of people behave.
Well, how about if I'm insulted by your posts: your misplaced self-installed sense of superiority is disrespectful.
Baiting the mods? Cool. People have been banned for less than half of the insults you've posted in this thread. This is your only warning from me.
My patience is wearing extremely thin...
The individual should have the rights to keep his copyright even if the group wants to get his stuff for free.
Approach the owner and see if you can buy into getting a real-deal up and running.
Nope, I made my own music and put it to tape instead.
Nope. I received a couple of copied cassettes at school. As soon as I saw them, I bought the legit versions. They come on nicer tapes and have boxes 'n' artwork, and the all-important story. :)
Erm, no. That'd be weird.
:lol:
I hope you bought that popcorn from the box office and not sneaked it in under your coat... otherwise you'll be in trouble!
Download the latest version of Bomb Munchies Ver2210 4th July 2020
I'd be delighted if anyone could answer the questions below, because I'm genuinely interested in the answers. In the face of above facts:
Btw. general tidbit of info: copyright infringement does NOT equal theft. Copyrights and physical objects have fundamentally different properties. And therefore: who regards those 2 as being the same thing, is misinformed.
Well then you've come to the right place! :smile:
lol :D
You'd be right in the case of an individual's physical possessions. But note that even the concept of "owning" physical possessions, is just a legal construct / social contract. Just one that feels more natural, so that the vast majority of people agree with, and respect it (or know they're doing something wrong).
Copyrights are another category alltogether, though. And thus is a matter of opinion, and open to debate.
You sound like a bundle of fun.
Do you ever manage to get out of Bognor?
Stuff that, i'm off to get a family sized bag to BBQ Hula Hoops!:grin:
Do you think that the main reason loads of people illegally download movies and music is because they disagree in principle with copyright law: as if they're taking a position against a law they believe to be morally wrong?
I don't. I believe the most common reason for illegal downloading is because it's an easy way to get an excellent or perfect copy of something for free, and there's little chance of being caught and punished.
If illegal downloading was made easier to punish- for example, by making ISPs cancel the accounts of people caught doing it- I don't think there would be mass protests on the street. Most people illegally downloading stuff know that they don't have a moral or legal leg to stand on.
I don’t think I have the stomach for it.
--Raziel (Legend of Kain: Soul Reaver 2)
https://www.youtube.com/user/VincentTSFP
A 60 minute cassette usually had ten or more games on them. You went and bought that amount of originals rightaway in one go? I wish i had that kind of money to move around with as a kid, or now for that matter.
Er, so's not smashing people's heads in before you take their stuff.
You can debate whether murder is wrong or not too, but the result will be much the same... Them's the rules round these parts.
I'm trying not to use it, but certain WoS members make it very difficult.
It is close to hand though...
That too - probably a big one. But it has been proven repeatedly, that people are willing to "do the right thing", when given an easy way to do so. However a legal alternative for many of the things people do, either
- Does not exist.
- Isn't available in their country.
- Doesn't provide stuff in convenient formats.
- Comes only as a subscription service, when all you wanted was a single song / game (or vice versa).
- Is DRM-protected so that people can't format-shift material, can't play stuff on devices they're legally allowed to use, fix software if buggy, etc.
- A variety of similar reasons.
So regardless of price (!), piracy often provides a superior product. Which makes it only logical that people resort to that.In the meanwhile P2P file sharing methods have been so much improved, and become so easy to use, that even with legal alternatives slowly becoming available, those options are fighting an uphill battle. Which is fine: the RIAA's, MPAA's, Disney's, Warners etc of this world only have themselves to blame for the current situation.
Contrary to what one may think, I'd be all for it if copyright laws were immediately, worldwide, 100% enforced. That would wipe out large swats of people's music / game collections, remove a large portion of fun / useful stuff from the internet, make it impossible to get a preview of many things, wipe many people's PC if they were running a pirated OS, reduce their software collection to just a few programs as to make their PC's near-useless, make many jobs / hobbies a lot more complicated and/or expensive, and drag half the population into court. Making it obvious to the masses how ridiculous the laws on the books are. And prove that assumption wrong.
Of course this won't happen when those laws are easy to sidestep, and only a few unlucky saps :cry: are hit by a pack of lawyers.
As for myself, I've long lost hope that copyright law will be fixed. So I vote with my feet / $$. Material that comes in a convenient format, at a reasonable price, and is easy to move onto different media / play on devices of my choice, has a much, much higher chance of getting my $$ than DRM-protected, shiny discs. So that maybe over time, economics will change the available options. But that's just me...
mile is neither big nor fat.
Exactly, most kids got a game for their birthday, and maybe 1 or 2 for christmas; and that was that.
I'd have played about 10 spectrum games if they were all legit copies. For a lot of kids, the only games they ever played were copies.
Countless musicians got into music via bootlegs and pirates, and listening to pirate radio. That was and IS where the real music scene is. Its not on CDs and endlessly re-issued vinyl that the major labels pump out. I don't know of a music fan that doesn't have plenty of bootlegs and pirates, and hold them more precious than official releases. Such things are shibboleth to music lovers. Before the internet one would go to Camden on a Sunday morning to get the tapes of the gigs from the week before (true story - I bumped into Bowie at a stall in Camden after his gig at the Town and Country Club in 1989, he was buying a recording of his own gig).
Dimadozen is one of the best sites on the net. It provides music fans a product that official record companies have NO interest in putting out. The quality now is fantastic, recordings are being cleaned up, mixed, balanced; by fans who know what the product should be. And then there are the basement tapes and demos that fans get hold off, and release. Thats what it is all about.
A demand that was in the process of being met by legitimate releases
They do. They are being passed off as the originals, and they are not.
[QUOTE=RetroTechie;821125
In the meanwhile, nothing stopped original seller of those model kits to keep on selling them.
And even today, nothing stops original seller from either selling cheap model kits too, or sell a higher-quality version. Or both..[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
The piracy stopped it. It was no longer a viable project. No choice but to cut losses.
Not when they saw what they could have had if they'd waited. It was all, 'Oh, that would have been good. I'll still buy one!' Sorry, but the project is closed now. Your actions, and that of the pirates, scared off all interested backers. Too unstable.
Oh yes, indeed, someone else will have to take it over. And I expect they will, one day.
We had to fight really hard to get the actual series released on DVD. That too was pirated in Europe prior to release, but we managed to convince the 2Entertain company to push on. It delayed the release for quite a while though.