You got an answer back, cool. Not exactly good, but they seem to be alive and well...and now you know you can get on with your life and start working on something else instead. Knowing what you can and can't do is definitely somehting good...even if the result is not what you'd hoped for.
It's a pity the answer is basically 'No', but at least you did get an answer, and credit to Greg for writing such a polite letter. We can't complain, though we can (and do) wish the answer had been yes. Still, maybe some day the games' sources will be released (I've thought before that if I were the prime minister, then I'd give some incentive to software houses to release the source code to their works. Having the source code to the best games would be fantastic, as you could not only recompile them to run on modern systems (which doesn't really apply too much to older games, as you can run them on emulators on new systems), but allows people to make bug fixes/improvements/game mods (new levels, weapons, game modes, etc) in their favourite games.
Why not, it would be a good idea. More source code (of good programs) increases the knowledge base and also makes the idea of modifying existing programs more attractive.
What's the downside of having more opensource games/game-making-tools, etc?
What's the downside of having more opensource games/game-making-tools, etc?
For your office as PM? Less income tax coming your way as people are not paying for games anymore
And that's a justification for not trying to make more programs open-source? By your reasoning, the government should ban all open soft software, to increase the taxes paid.
The only downside I see to open source software is malware, i.e. open source viruses, or scummy cretins recompiling genuine programs but adding malware to the program beforehand.
For your office as PM? Less income tax coming your way as people are not paying for games anymore
Pah, we don't care about income tax and other such nonsense - they only spend it on second homes anyway - just give us the source code to classic games! :D
And that's a justification for not trying to make more programs open-source? By your reasoning, the government should ban all open soft software, to increase the taxes paid.
That's not MY justification. I'm all for open source. I was saying why the government would never say something like "release sources with all games"
Although it would be nice with more open-source software (I guess...personally I don't really care) I have to say that anyone running for a goverment job with that on their agenda is not someone I'd vote for as it shows a clear lack of understanding of what is important. More open-source software isn't that.
And that's a justification for not trying to make more programs open-source? By your reasoning, the government should ban all open soft software, to increase the taxes paid.
That's not MY justification. I'm all for open source. I was saying why the government would never say something like "release sources with all games"
Oh, sorry, my mistake. Yes, you are right, and also the fact that the government wouldn't want to go against the rich corporations (even if they pay far less tax then they should) would also strengthen the government's desire to oppose open source stuff.
Yes, you are right, and also the fact that the government wouldn't want to go against the rich corporations (even if they pay far less tax then they should) would also strengthen the government's desire to oppose open source stuff.
You're in danger of losing my vote ewgf. Just let me have the source code for all the Ultimate games, and Denton Designs while you're at it, and I'll call it quits.
Although it would be nice with more open-source software (I guess...personally I don't really care) I have to say that anyone running for a goverment job with that on their agenda is not someone I'd vote for as it shows a clear lack of understanding of what is important. More open-source software isn't that.
Yes, but
(a) I'm not running for office (and never likely to), I'm just posting on a forum for thirty-year old games,
(b) I'd have much more relevant and important policies than this if I really did have the power to change anything,
(c) I'm just a fat lazy idiot killing time at work, so I could claim that if I were the PM (or king, or emperor of the universe) I'd do anything, however stupid, and it wouldn't matter. I could, as ruler, even say that I'd give free flying carpets to all C64 owners, who would then be required by law to practise using them on the Dover cliffs, that I'd change the currency from paper notes and metal coins to chips and gravy, as that way, if you can't be bothered going to the chippy, you could just eat the money instead, and that I'd lower the retirement age to forty, because (a) it will give more jobs to the young, (b) I'm over forty and don't want to work, and (c) **** it, I'd be a politician, and so I'd have to make sure I was alright.
Actually, I was trying to make up ridiculous things for a joke, but I can't make up anything as ridiculous as the current real parliament.
What's the downside of having more opensource games/game-making-tools, etc?
For your office as PM? Less income tax coming your way as people are not paying for games anymore
Why not, if it is 30 years old game?!
Yes, but to be fair, Rare (formerly Ultimate Play The Game) denied free distribution of their games, even though you couldn't legally buy them (other than second-hand, which gave Rare no money), and yet after three decades they are selling them again (albeit in recompiled form, on much newer machines) as part of the Rare Revival collection. So there is a precedent for a software house not selling a given game for decades, but doing so eventually.
I think it's a stretch of faith to imagine that they're not aware of this forum and indeed this thread. But I'm not surprised at the lack of response.
Those days were a long time ago, people move on and find less and less time to deal with the past, with the additional fear that there will be tacit pressure on them to dig out 30-year-old tapes of unfinished software.
Or it may be the Syd Barrett phenomenon, where people really don't want to revisit their heyday.
Take Malcolm Evans (I think it was him) - for a while there was a site run by his daughter, and it was made very clear that he had no interest or intention of discussing the past. Sandy White had a site that had a Q&A on it but even that is now in disrepair.
But one can only hope.
The same thing happened when people have tried to get in touch with Mervyn Estcourt (writer of Deathchase) only to be told he has no interest in talking about the game, it is in the past and shall stay there. He has declined all requests for interviews from various people over the years.
Well if the IP's are still under copyright, and there's a big US company now owns the rights to them let's hope there's a modern reboot of Heavy on the Magick in the style of something like Skyrim.
I'd pay $50 for that, as long as we didn't get nickel and dimed 3 days after the release with 12 million DLC's that all cost $5.99 and add little to the actual game, but are required to look cool online in front of your 10000 friends you've never, and probably will never meet in real life :D
I would have liked to have heard from Gargoyle and Mervyn etc, about what games they left unfinished, what they had planned, if they had or still have any unreleased stuff. I'd especially like to know why Mervyn left after such a brief but dazzling output of games - at least Greg and Roy stayed through the Spectrum's golden years.
I suppose really we're fortunate to have heard from so many greats already - Jonathan Smith, Matthew Smith, David Reidy and Keith Warrington, Rod Bowkett, David Braben and Ian Bell, Geoff Crammond, Pete Cooke, even the gits who inflicted Dizzy on us (hate hate etc!).
Retro Gamer magazine does do a good job of tracking down the creators of our old favourites (though I do wish that their otherwise interesting interviews would be more in-depth about the game making decisions and game-content related stuff), and I'm still hoping that they can track down Paul Woaks (the genius who wrote Mercenary and Damocles).
Blimey! Retro Gamer magazine have just announced the following:
In a shock development, we at Retro Gamer were contacted by Gargoyle Games, who were
keen to be interviewed by us! So I quickly hopped onto a plane, flew to the USA, and
met up with Greg and Roy in their current office, a small trailer in a trailer park.
I can't put into words how excited I was to meet these two giants of the Spectrum era!
The full interview will be appearing in a future issue of Retro gamer, but for now, here's
a sneak preview to whet your appetite:
Retro Gamer: Hello Greg!
Greg: Howay, pet!
RG: Hello Roy!
Roy: Who?
Greg: He means you, ROY!
Roy: Roy who? (looks around)
Greg: [hisses] you, you're Roy, remember?
Roy: Oh! Oh, Er, I mean yeah, hello. I'm Roy, definitely Roy. That's me. Never been called Beanzy in my life. Oh no. I'm Roy all the way.
Greg: Don't overdo it, you ******.
RG: Well, to start at the beginning, when did you first get into programming?
Greg: Where's the cash?
RG: Eh?
Greg: The cash. The money you're giving us for being interviewed, like. Give us the dosh or there's no interview.
RG: OK. Here's the mone- OW!!! My fingers!
Greg: Sorry. Right, what do you want to know?
RG : OK. Now then, you made many great games over the years. Which is your favourite?
Greg: Oh f*ck. I mean, er, which is your favourite game out of the one, the ones that we written?
RG: My own personal favourite would probably be Tir Na Nog.
Greg: **** off, you sarky git. Name a real game that we made.
RG: Er, Tir Na Nog is a real game. I thought it was great.
Roy: It's true Booze-, I mean Greg. It's a real game. It's crap, I played it. No shooting.
Greg: Erm, Roy means that he played it when we'd finished writing it, don't you, roy?
Roy: Roy who? Ow!!! My foot. Oh, er, I mean, erm, yes. When do I get my half of the money?
Greg: Shut up. Anyway, er, Turning Og, it's a great game. Though in hindsight we should have added shooting.
RG: Shooting?
Greg: Oh, did I say 'shooting'? I meant, er, pit-stops. Since Turning Og is a racing game?
RG: A racing game?
Greg: I mean a platformer. All that jumping and collecting eggs, before that big chicken caught you.
RG: ... What?
Roy: [whispering] I said we should have checked what games they wrote.
Greg: Shut up Bean-... Roy. Look, forget about Turning Og, ask me something else.
RG: Right... What do you see yourself doing in the future?
Roy: When I get my half of the cash, I'm going to buy some food. I haven't eaten in three days, and Boozey said if we pull this scam, then we can get some money and ***OW!!!*** My foot. Stop stamping on my foot.
Greg: Ignore him. He's just joking 'cos he's so zany. Erm, in the future, we're going to release the best game ever. Give me another two dollars and I'll tell you about it now.
RG: Sorry, the fee is fixed, and can't be altered.
Greg: F*ck you then.
Roy: Do you have any food on you? If you have, then give it to me, and I'll make up someth-, I mean I'll tell you about the new games, when I've finished eating.
Greg: SHUT UP! Er, we'll be making more games and stuff. That sort of b*ll*cks.
Roy: Can we go to the shop now, Boozey? Only I'm almost passing out from hunger.
RG: Next question then. Why, since you are so successful and talented, are you currently based in this grotty trailer, in this dump of a park?
Greg: Hey, this is our home, like. I dinna go to your house and slag it off. This is a great place to live.
Roy: Yes. We didn't get kicked out of England, honest. And when they happened, I mean didn't happen, then we didn't come here because nowhere else would have us.
That's it for now. Look out for the full interview in a few months time. Or, if you want to read the full interview now, including the most explosive news in the entire history of the gaming world, then send £500 to ewgf, and you won't regret it! Please add in your covering letter "I will not sue ewgf if the interview is made up" (which it's not), for legal reasons.
I can see both side of the argument. I have been asked to release the source for A Broken Friend and Bounty, but said no. The reason? I am embarrassed at how bad the code is to be honest, and to have other (probably much better) coders trawl through it would send me into fits of cringe!!
Some of the game may look nice, but imagine someone picking their way through your work and opening it out to the world.
It would be like someone digging out your old school books and putting them on the web... pointing a finger and laughing... best left alone... I don't blame anyone who withholds source, and think anyone who does is very brave.
Both Tir Na Nog and Dun Darach have that professional feel to them in regards to design. Nice tight data structures, especially for the time.
Hmm, after a bit of a think, I'm wondering if a Java version of the Tir Na Nog engine is not really a good idea at this time. Another project possibly shelved.
...I could, as ruler, even say that I'd give free flying carpets to all C64 owners, who would then be required by law to practise using them on the Dover cliffs
Well, perhaps you're not a complete lost case as you do have some good ideas. ;):D
hmm, I wonder who the large US development house is?
I will try to send mail to Follis with question, hope he answers.
Probably pie in the sky thinking, but if you find out, maybe they might be interested in embracing some of the effort already undertaken in an official capacity?
Comments
My games for the Spectrum: Dingo, The Speccies, The Speccies 2, Vallation, SQIJ.
Twitter: Sokurah
Yes, it is much better than silence.
I will try to send mail to Follis with question, hope he answers.
Ex-Ocean Software graphic artist -
Download my FREE PDF 'LOAD DIJ DIJ' (180,000+ words): https://ko-fi.com/i/IG2G3BEJZP
ZX Art page: https://zxart.ee/eng/authors/m/mark-r-jones/
https://twitter.com/MarkRJones1970
https://www.facebook.com/OceanSoftwareLtd/
https://www.facebook.com/ultimateptg/
My games for the Spectrum: Dingo, The Speccies, The Speccies 2, Vallation, SQIJ.
Twitter: Sokurah
What's the downside of having more opensource games/game-making-tools, etc?
For your office as PM? Less income tax coming your way as people are not paying for games anymore
And that's a justification for not trying to make more programs open-source? By your reasoning, the government should ban all open soft software, to increase the taxes paid.
The only downside I see to open source software is malware, i.e. open source viruses, or scummy cretins recompiling genuine programs but adding malware to the program beforehand.
My games for the Spectrum: Dingo, The Speccies, The Speccies 2, Vallation, SQIJ.
Twitter: Sokurah
Why not, if it is 30 years old game?!
Oh, sorry, my mistake. Yes, you are right, and also the fact that the government wouldn't want to go against the rich corporations (even if they pay far less tax then they should) would also strengthen the government's desire to oppose open source stuff.
Yes, but
(a) I'm not running for office (and never likely to), I'm just posting on a forum for thirty-year old games,
(b) I'd have much more relevant and important policies than this if I really did have the power to change anything,
(c) I'm just a fat lazy idiot killing time at work, so I could claim that if I were the PM (or king, or emperor of the universe) I'd do anything, however stupid, and it wouldn't matter. I could, as ruler, even say that I'd give free flying carpets to all C64 owners, who would then be required by law to practise using them on the Dover cliffs, that I'd change the currency from paper notes and metal coins to chips and gravy, as that way, if you can't be bothered going to the chippy, you could just eat the money instead, and that I'd lower the retirement age to forty, because (a) it will give more jobs to the young, (b) I'm over forty and don't want to work, and (c) **** it, I'd be a politician, and so I'd have to make sure I was alright.
Actually, I was trying to make up ridiculous things for a joke, but I can't make up anything as ridiculous as the current real parliament.
Yes, but to be fair, Rare (formerly Ultimate Play The Game) denied free distribution of their games, even though you couldn't legally buy them (other than second-hand, which gave Rare no money), and yet after three decades they are selling them again (albeit in recompiled form, on much newer machines) as part of the Rare Revival collection. So there is a precedent for a software house not selling a given game for decades, but doing so eventually.
The same thing happened when people have tried to get in touch with Mervyn Estcourt (writer of Deathchase) only to be told he has no interest in talking about the game, it is in the past and shall stay there. He has declined all requests for interviews from various people over the years.
I'd pay $50 for that, as long as we didn't get nickel and dimed 3 days after the release with 12 million DLC's that all cost $5.99 and add little to the actual game, but are required to look cool online in front of your 10000 friends you've never, and probably will never meet in real life :D
I suppose really we're fortunate to have heard from so many greats already - Jonathan Smith, Matthew Smith, David Reidy and Keith Warrington, Rod Bowkett, David Braben and Ian Bell, Geoff Crammond, Pete Cooke, even the gits who inflicted Dizzy on us (hate hate etc!).
Retro Gamer magazine does do a good job of tracking down the creators of our old favourites (though I do wish that their otherwise interesting interviews would be more in-depth about the game making decisions and game-content related stuff), and I'm still hoping that they can track down Paul Woaks (the genius who wrote Mercenary and Damocles).
In a shock development, we at Retro Gamer were contacted by Gargoyle Games, who were
keen to be interviewed by us! So I quickly hopped onto a plane, flew to the USA, and
met up with Greg and Roy in their current office, a small trailer in a trailer park.
I can't put into words how excited I was to meet these two giants of the Spectrum era!
The full interview will be appearing in a future issue of Retro gamer, but for now, here's
a sneak preview to whet your appetite:
Retro Gamer: Hello Greg!
Greg: Howay, pet!
RG: Hello Roy!
Roy: Who?
Greg: He means you, ROY!
Roy: Roy who? (looks around)
Greg: [hisses] you, you're Roy, remember?
Roy: Oh! Oh, Er, I mean yeah, hello. I'm Roy, definitely Roy. That's me. Never been called Beanzy in my life. Oh no. I'm Roy all the way.
Greg: Don't overdo it, you ******.
RG: Well, to start at the beginning, when did you first get into programming?
Greg: Where's the cash?
RG: Eh?
Greg: The cash. The money you're giving us for being interviewed, like. Give us the dosh or there's no interview.
RG: OK. Here's the mone- OW!!! My fingers!
Greg: Sorry. Right, what do you want to know?
RG : OK. Now then, you made many great games over the years. Which is your favourite?
Greg: Oh f*ck. I mean, er, which is your favourite game out of the one, the ones that we written?
RG: My own personal favourite would probably be Tir Na Nog.
Greg: **** off, you sarky git. Name a real game that we made.
RG: Er, Tir Na Nog is a real game. I thought it was great.
Roy: It's true Booze-, I mean Greg. It's a real game. It's crap, I played it. No shooting.
Greg: Erm, Roy means that he played it when we'd finished writing it, don't you, roy?
Roy: Roy who? Ow!!! My foot. Oh, er, I mean, erm, yes. When do I get my half of the money?
Greg: Shut up. Anyway, er, Turning Og, it's a great game. Though in hindsight we should have added shooting.
RG: Shooting?
Greg: Oh, did I say 'shooting'? I meant, er, pit-stops. Since Turning Og is a racing game?
RG: A racing game?
Greg: I mean a platformer. All that jumping and collecting eggs, before that big chicken caught you.
RG: ... What?
Roy: [whispering] I said we should have checked what games they wrote.
Greg: Shut up Bean-... Roy. Look, forget about Turning Og, ask me something else.
RG: Right... What do you see yourself doing in the future?
Roy: When I get my half of the cash, I'm going to buy some food. I haven't eaten in three days, and Boozey said if we pull this scam, then we can get some money and ***OW!!!*** My foot. Stop stamping on my foot.
Greg: Ignore him. He's just joking 'cos he's so zany. Erm, in the future, we're going to release the best game ever. Give me another two dollars and I'll tell you about it now.
RG: Sorry, the fee is fixed, and can't be altered.
Greg: F*ck you then.
Roy: Do you have any food on you? If you have, then give it to me, and I'll make up someth-, I mean I'll tell you about the new games, when I've finished eating.
Greg: SHUT UP! Er, we'll be making more games and stuff. That sort of b*ll*cks.
Roy: Can we go to the shop now, Boozey? Only I'm almost passing out from hunger.
RG: Next question then. Why, since you are so successful and talented, are you currently based in this grotty trailer, in this dump of a park?
Greg: Hey, this is our home, like. I dinna go to your house and slag it off. This is a great place to live.
Roy: Yes. We didn't get kicked out of England, honest. And when they happened, I mean didn't happen, then we didn't come here because nowhere else would have us.
That's it for now. Look out for the full interview in a few months time. Or, if you want to read the full interview now, including the most explosive news in the entire history of the gaming world, then send £500 to ewgf, and you won't regret it! Please add in your covering letter "I will not sue ewgf if the interview is made up" (which it's not), for legal reasons.
Some of the game may look nice, but imagine someone picking their way through your work and opening it out to the world.
It would be like someone digging out your old school books and putting them on the web... pointing a finger and laughing... best left alone... I don't blame anyone who withholds source, and think anyone who does is very brave.
Curious. They were drunk, or what?!
Can't say about other games, but HOTM structure and code (as far I explored) is nicely designed.
Hmm, after a bit of a think, I'm wondering if a Java version of the Tir Na Nog engine is not really a good idea at this time. Another project possibly shelved.
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
My games for the Spectrum: Dingo, The Speccies, The Speccies 2, Vallation, SQIJ.
Twitter: Sokurah
Probably pie in the sky thinking, but if you find out, maybe they might be interested in embracing some of the effort already undertaken in an official capacity?