I started work in 1987 and was amazed when I saw the equipment that was in use. Mind, the company still uses many thousands of relays. In the part of the country where I am based there a lot of PO 3000 types still in use.
I think some of the "modern" music sometimes drifts a bit closer to some of the 1980's music, unlike the 1990's or the 2000's music. But the sound of the eighties electro-pop is what I like best, as I was a teenager back then.
I think the radio was more fun back then, well compared to now. I'm talking about the DJ's as much as anything. Noel and his funny phone calls. Snooker on the radio. The Radio 1 road show. Bruno Brooks, Steve Right in the afternoon. The top 40 chart show on a Sunday. All fun to listen to while bashing the joystick around.
On the telly, the A-team, the Fall Guy, the Dukes of Hazard, Magnum PI, Cheers, Tomorrows World, Life on Earth, Micro Live (plus the various other computer programs), The Kenny Everett TV show, that wind-up show Game for a Laugh and then Beadle's About. Plus many more that I have forgotten.
There are still some good TV shows, but they are surrounded by so much dross...
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Ah, I was wrong then. I assumed you meant you worked for the GPO. So you were a contractor then or are you being pedantic and mean 'British Telecom' ;)?
Anyway I started in 1986 and was also a bit put out by how old fashion everything was, even down to the furniture :). got used to it though and it kind of became part of the charm.
Nope, not the GPO, and not British Telecom (or any of the other names it trades/traded under). In 1987 I was not a contractor, and am currently not a contractor, but in the 1990's the company was split-up so for some years we were the primary contractors before the contract was brought back "in-house" to reduce costs.
We use/used a lot of equipment that was the same make/type as the GPO and BT. Although not always the same. In the area where I work, in 1988 approx, we had new ISDX 3000 exchange equipment made by GPT instead of the GPO/BT System X equipment.
To see the ISDX 3000 type, skip to 21:56 in this video
For the exchange lines, Errison exchange equipment is now used, but the ISDX 3000 has to be kept operational as it provides the trunks.
As a department (as we were called in 1987) we don't supply communications services directly to the public (unlike BT). Oh and I should say, I don't actually work on the exchange or telecom transmission systems. I work on logic control systems that date from late 1960's designs that became operational from 1970 onwards.
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Having experienced both high and low inflation/interest rates I can assure lower is better. Back then I like many others was throwing nearly all of my disposable income at the sodding mortgage with little left for other things, which is just one reason why the economy at that time was in a **** state as peoples spending power was limited.
You would have had to have lived through both times to know that the low interest/inflation we have now is infinitely better, my mortgage interest rate started fairly low then along with inflation rocketed so whilst getting a mortgage was easier than today once the brown stuff hit the fan it was difficult to say the least..High interest rates etc do affect working peoples lives if not why do successive governments knock themselves out trying to reduce them?
But at the time, inflation was high, so the houses purchased, and wages, were increasing in value - more than cancelling out the interest rates.
Getting a house or mortgage has been beyond the means of many of subsequent generations. The average aged WoS user experienced the earlier financial climate as a child, watching their parents generation climbing the property ladder.
Struggling to meet mortgage payments as you generate an appreciating asset is preferable, in my mind, to struggling to throw money away as rent, largely to people of the previous generations.
As for the motivation for any Government's financial policy, it is never solely for the benefit of the average working person.
Nope, not the GPO, and not British Telecom (or any of the other names it trades/traded under). In 1987 I was not a contractor, and am currently not a contractor, but in the 1990's the company was split-up so for some years we were the primary contractors before the contract was brought back "in-house" to reduce costs.
We use/used a lot of equipment that was the same make/type as the GPO and BT. Although not always the same. In the area where I work, in 1988 approx, we had new ISDX 3000 exchange equipment made by GPT instead of the GPO/BT System X equipment.
To see the ISDX 3000 type, skip to 21:56 in this video
For the exchange lines, Errison exchange equipment is now used, but the ISDX 3000 has to be kept operational as it provides the trunks.
As a department (as we were called in 1987) we don't supply communications services directly to the public (unlike BT). Oh and I should say, I don't actually work on the exchange or telecom transmission systems. I work on logic control systems that date from late 1960's designs that became operational from 1970 onwards.
Now that's got you thinking :D
Mark
Ah, know I see :)
I was a simple exchange frames guy.. Nice easy job, sometimes even fun. Then I become a pro developer.. Oh boy, then I had to work for a living <GRIN>
Having experienced both high and low inflation/interest rates I can assure lower is better. Back then I like many others was throwing nearly all of my disposable income at the sodding mortgage with little left for other things, which is just one reason why the economy at that time was in a **** state as peoples spending power was limited.
You would have had to have lived through both times to know that the low interest/inflation we have now is infinitely better, my mortgage interest rate started fairly low then along with inflation rocketed so whilst getting a mortgage was easier than today once the brown stuff hit the fan it was difficult to say the least..High interest rates etc do affect working peoples lives if not why do successive governments knock themselves out trying to reduce them?
But at the time, inflation was high, so the houses purchased, and wages, were increasing in value - more than cancelling out the interest rates.
Getting a house or mortgage has been beyond the means of many of subsequent generations. The average aged WoS user experienced the earlier financial climate as a child, watching their parents generation climbing the property ladder.
Struggling to meet mortgage payments as you generate an appreciating asset is preferable, in my mind, to struggling to throw money away as rent, largely to people of the previous generations.
As for the motivation for any Government's financial policy, it is never solely for the benefit of the average working person.
HMMM wages rising and cancelling out the interest rate nope sorry not for me and most I knew in the same boat, interest rates rocketed from single to double figures 16% in my case and my wage certainly did not follow suit.
I have conceded that today's generation have it hard re property purchase so we are in bon accord there.:-)
As for the appreciating asset, we bought homes to live in and raise families not to speculate/profit from; the subsequent rise in property values and buying with a view to profit is something more allied to a younger possibly your generation not mine. Any benefit I or those of my generation accrued was fortuitous coincidence and certainly not the original intention as your statement seems to imply. Also it should be noted that in my case at least and I suspect many others the asset as you call it only increased in value at the end of the mortgage period and went through periods of stagnant then negative equity during it's term so hardly a purchase with a view to speculative profit I apologise for being lucky.
Most of the property buyers who buy solely with a view to rent out I have found by and large,again to come from a younger generation as the phenomenon is relatively recent by design , I note the veiled dig " largely to people of the previous generations." not everything is the fault of us baby boomers as much as some would like it to be.
Finally Re government policy. I can only repeat the question as to why aim for low interest/inflation rates if the opposite is so desirable? To answer as you did that governments hardly do anything with the workers in mind doesn't really address the question and with respect is a bit of a cop out.
A nice discussion p13z but one I fear has run it's course so this is my final word. As I suspect what ever opinion you have of 70's 80's fiscal developments and home ownership etc will never be in accord with mine and many others life's experience rather than let it develop into something base,in the interest of forum friendliness, I think it's best I leave it there whilst of course respecting your right of reply.:-)
I'm also sure that people who were adults during the 80s don't miss the double-digit inflation, 3 million+ unemployed, and double digit interest rates either. The financial crisis we've had looks almost trivial to those who had to make a living from the early 70s up till the late 80s.
High inflation with high interest rates is not necessarily bad. The effect on working people's lives is pretty much the same as low inflation with low interest rates.
*All things being equal* but they never are. During periods of low inflation and low interest rates, economic conditions are usually pretty benign. During periods of high inflation, there is often economic turmoil.
The effect on working people's lives is extremely destructive from the second case. In the 70s for example you had high inflation, high interest rates but falling income and increasing unemployment. People getting put on 3 day weeks and taking the consequent pay cut while at the same time facing rapidly increasing prices and much higher mortgage repayments are put into a very perilous position.
Ahh, the lovely sparks across the contacts as the uni-selectors of the Strowger telephone exchange returned to the home position as a call cleared down. That is a sound that I miss, well sometimes... Mark
They had (unfortunately past tense - unless they've since fixed it) a rack of Strowger gear and a number of phones in the London Science Museum's communications hall - and it was powered up and working. I loved getting all the phones connected to each other, then with the help of an assistant putting the receivers back on the hook all at the same time.
The sound was sweet enough to make a brave man cry.
*All things being equal* but they never are. During periods of low inflation and low interest rates, economic conditions are usually pretty benign. During periods of high inflation, there is often economic turmoil.
The effect on working people's lives is extremely destructive from the second case. In the 70s for example you had high inflation, high interest rates but falling income and increasing unemployment. People getting put on 3 day weeks and taking the consequent pay cut while at the same time facing rapidly increasing prices and much higher mortgage repayments are put into a very perilous position.
The key word I used there, was 'necessarily'.
For many people, a mortgage was taken out at the right time, and repayments became negligible compared to their rising wages and potential sale price of the mortgaged property. Good for some, bad for others. It seems to me that a lot of working class folk acquired property during these times that is now valued well beyond the means of the current generation.
The trouble is that the government are constantly trying to make things worse.
Once you just give up and say everything is fecked then there really is no hope.
Heh, if you believe anything is gonna get better then you need to rethink. Unless you intend to get into the government and change things from inside. Deal with the hand given, make the most, and just get through life... Simples...
If enough people stop putting up with things and instead complain to their MP, and tell them if they don't do anything, they will vote against them, it is possible to change things. But it needs many to do this, not just one or two.
Of course it may actually take people voting against the current government to effect change.
Really, really big public demonstrations also sometimes work, as they show the government that what they are doing is a vote loser.
To say that nothing will change for the better is misguided. Remember the hated poll tax.
That is one thing that I hate, people who moan, but don't do anything (are they too lazy?) or who are resigned to other people fecking up everyone’s lives.
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
If everyone resigns themselves to the idea that everything is going to get worse then it is a self fulfilling prophecy Shirley.
Things don't have to get better. Remaining at the current level of fecked-ness is preferable to things getting worse.
Ahh but, by the time it really goes pete tong I will be dead, :p
So you have only got six months to a year to live have you? Or have you been to the future?
Because no one knows exactly what will happen and when, so it is possible that something will change long before you are dead, that will make your life worse.
And what does your attitude say about future generations?
When you were young and playing games on your lovely ZX Spectrum, would you have liked it if the government had banned children from using computers to play games? Or passed laws preventing anyone who was not employed by the state from producing computer programs and software?
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
I'm also sure that people who were adults during the 80s don't miss the double-digit inflation, 3 million+ unemployed, and double digit interest rates either. The financial crisis we've had looks almost trivial to those who had to make a living from the early 70s up till the late 80s.
High inflation with high interest rates is not necessarily bad. The effect on working people's lives is pretty much the same as low inflation with low interest rates.
*All things being equal* but they never are. During periods of low inflation and low interest rates, economic conditions are usually pretty benign. During periods of high inflation, there is often economic turmoil.
The effect on working people's lives is extremely destructive from the second case. In the 70s for example you had high inflation, high interest rates but falling income and increasing unemployment. People getting put on 3 day weeks and taking the consequent pay cut while at the same time facing rapidly increasing prices and much higher mortgage repayments are put into a very perilous position.
Well put Winston something tells me you felt the pinch as well. :-)
Like many others thanks to the likes of the three day week I struggled to find the mortgage payment which was £65 a month more than my take home pay once wages dropped, at more than one point I had to defer payment and have it tacked on at the end and I say again we bought homes to live in not to profiteer from so no worries about our "investment" going tits up our concern was losing a home not a house. if we got lucky at a future time then sorry I'll open a vein.
I fully acknowledge and respect the fact that today's generation have a horrendous task in front of them re buying property finding a sky high deposit etc but one cannot help when one was born can one? I honestly feel for todays generation and their plight but not EVERYTHING is the fault of we Boomers regardless of a few veiled comments suggesting so.
I just wish that the same acknowledgement could be afforded to those of us who experienced life back than and whose views on those times are based on the facts of our,not just my, existence(before anyone suggests it was only my experience) and not something plucked from the internet-read in a book-cut/pasted as original thought-debated in the sixth form common room or scribbled on a pisspot wall.
If enough people stop putting up with things and instead complain to their MP, and tell them if they don't do anything, they will vote against them, it is possible to change things. But it needs many to do this, not just one or two.
Of course it may actually take people voting against the current government to effect change.
Really, really big public demonstrations also sometimes work, as they show the government that what they are doing is a vote loser.
To say that nothing will change for the better is misguided. Remember the hated poll tax.
That is one thing that I hate, people who moan, but don't do anything (are they too lazy?) or who are resigned to other people fecking up everyone’s lives.
I just wish that the same acknowledgement could be afforded to those of us who experienced life back than and whose views on those times are based on the facts of our,not just my, existence(before anyone suggests it was only my experience) and not something plucked from the internet-read in a book-cut/pasted as original thought-debated in the sixth form common room or scribbled on a pisspot wall.
Obviously a reference to me. I was only putting across the side of the story that very rarely gets told.
Yes, we all know the standard story, and how large sections of society were affected. My point was just that it wasn't like that for everyone, and was not a direct result of the level of interest rates / inflation, more their instability.
And please, refrain from the patronisation, my views are not age related.
Really, really big public demonstrations also sometimes work, as they show the government that what they are doing is a vote loser.
The anti Iraq war demonstration in London was one of the largest public demonstrations in human history. Totally ignored.
The last big demo I can think of that changed anything in the UK was possibly against the poll tax, but that probably had a lot to do with a cold calculation that the enforcement of it in the circumstances would be un -economic.
If everyone resigns themselves to the idea that everything is going to get worse then it is a self fulfilling prophecy Shirley.
Things don't have to get better. Remaining at the current level of fecked-ness is preferable to things getting worse.
Ahh but, by the time it really goes pete tong I will be dead, :p
So you have only got six months to a year to live have you? Or have you been to the future?
Because no one knows exactly what will happen and when, so it is possible that something will change long before you are dead, that will make your life worse.
And what does your attitude say about future generations?
When you were young and playing games on your lovely ZX Spectrum, would you have liked it if the government had banned children from using computers to play games? Or passed laws preventing anyone who was not employed by the state from producing computer programs and software?
Comments
Here is a picture of a PO 3000 relay
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2014/1815405958_668c442e3d.jpg
(Although the ones we use have a different contact pile to the one in the picture and most are not used for telephone circuits).
I think some of the "modern" music sometimes drifts a bit closer to some of the 1980's music, unlike the 1990's or the 2000's music. But the sound of the eighties electro-pop is what I like best, as I was a teenager back then.
I think the radio was more fun back then, well compared to now. I'm talking about the DJ's as much as anything. Noel and his funny phone calls. Snooker on the radio. The Radio 1 road show. Bruno Brooks, Steve Right in the afternoon. The top 40 chart show on a Sunday. All fun to listen to while bashing the joystick around.
On the telly, the A-team, the Fall Guy, the Dukes of Hazard, Magnum PI, Cheers, Tomorrows World, Life on Earth, Micro Live (plus the various other computer programs), The Kenny Everett TV show, that wind-up show Game for a Laugh and then Beadle's About. Plus many more that I have forgotten.
There are still some good TV shows, but they are surrounded by so much dross...
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Anyway I started in 1986 and was also a bit put out by how old fashion everything was, even down to the furniture :). got used to it though and it kind of became part of the charm.
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
We use/used a lot of equipment that was the same make/type as the GPO and BT. Although not always the same. In the area where I work, in 1988 approx, we had new ISDX 3000 exchange equipment made by GPT instead of the GPO/BT System X equipment.
To see the ISDX 3000 type, skip to 21:56 in this video
For the exchange lines, Errison exchange equipment is now used, but the ISDX 3000 has to be kept operational as it provides the trunks.
As a department (as we were called in 1987) we don't supply communications services directly to the public (unlike BT). Oh and I should say, I don't actually work on the exchange or telecom transmission systems. I work on logic control systems that date from late 1960's designs that became operational from 1970 onwards.
Now that's got you thinking :D
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Your thinking of lego.
Getting a house or mortgage has been beyond the means of many of subsequent generations. The average aged WoS user experienced the earlier financial climate as a child, watching their parents generation climbing the property ladder.
Struggling to meet mortgage payments as you generate an appreciating asset is preferable, in my mind, to struggling to throw money away as rent, largely to people of the previous generations.
As for the motivation for any Government's financial policy, it is never solely for the benefit of the average working person.
Ah, know I see :)
I was a simple exchange frames guy.. Nice easy job, sometimes even fun. Then I become a pro developer.. Oh boy, then I had to work for a living <GRIN>
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
A different provider like Kingston or one of the islands?Edit: doh, didn't see the second page of guesses :)
HMMM wages rising and cancelling out the interest rate nope sorry not for me and most I knew in the same boat, interest rates rocketed from single to double figures 16% in my case and my wage certainly did not follow suit.
I have conceded that today's generation have it hard re property purchase so we are in bon accord there.:-)
As for the appreciating asset, we bought homes to live in and raise families not to speculate/profit from; the subsequent rise in property values and buying with a view to profit is something more allied to a younger possibly your generation not mine. Any benefit I or those of my generation accrued was fortuitous coincidence and certainly not the original intention as your statement seems to imply. Also it should be noted that in my case at least and I suspect many others the asset as you call it only increased in value at the end of the mortgage period and went through periods of stagnant then negative equity during it's term so hardly a purchase with a view to speculative profit I apologise for being lucky.
Most of the property buyers who buy solely with a view to rent out I have found by and large,again to come from a younger generation as the phenomenon is relatively recent by design , I note the veiled dig " largely to people of the previous generations." not everything is the fault of us baby boomers as much as some would like it to be.
Finally Re government policy. I can only repeat the question as to why aim for low interest/inflation rates if the opposite is so desirable? To answer as you did that governments hardly do anything with the workers in mind doesn't really address the question and with respect is a bit of a cop out.
A nice discussion p13z but one I fear has run it's course so this is my final word. As I suspect what ever opinion you have of 70's 80's fiscal developments and home ownership etc will never be in accord with mine and many others life's experience rather than let it develop into something base,in the interest of forum friendliness, I think it's best I leave it there whilst of course respecting your right of reply.:-)
Regards.
Moggy.
Bet that made your eyes water!!
Christ Almighty I walked into that one!!!
*All things being equal* but they never are. During periods of low inflation and low interest rates, economic conditions are usually pretty benign. During periods of high inflation, there is often economic turmoil.
The effect on working people's lives is extremely destructive from the second case. In the 70s for example you had high inflation, high interest rates but falling income and increasing unemployment. People getting put on 3 day weeks and taking the consequent pay cut while at the same time facing rapidly increasing prices and much higher mortgage repayments are put into a very perilous position.
They had (unfortunately past tense - unless they've since fixed it) a rack of Strowger gear and a number of phones in the London Science Museum's communications hall - and it was powered up and working. I loved getting all the phones connected to each other, then with the help of an assistant putting the receivers back on the hook all at the same time.
The sound was sweet enough to make a brave man cry.
The key word I used there, was 'necessarily'.
For many people, a mortgage was taken out at the right time, and repayments became negligible compared to their rising wages and potential sale price of the mortgaged property. Good for some, bad for others. It seems to me that a lot of working class folk acquired property during these times that is now valued well beyond the means of the current generation.
It's gone, done, deal with it and embrace the writing of history now, it's all fecked up anyway lol
If you don't like it now then there is always Dignitas, :p
Once you just give up and say everything is fecked then there really is no hope.
Heh, if you believe anything is gonna get better then you need to rethink. Unless you intend to get into the government and change things from inside. Deal with the hand given, make the most, and just get through life... Simples...
Things don't have to get better. Remaining at the current level of fecked-ness is preferable to things getting worse.
Ahh but, by the time it really goes pete tong I will be dead, :p
Of course it may actually take people voting against the current government to effect change.
Really, really big public demonstrations also sometimes work, as they show the government that what they are doing is a vote loser.
To say that nothing will change for the better is misguided. Remember the hated poll tax.
That is one thing that I hate, people who moan, but don't do anything (are they too lazy?) or who are resigned to other people fecking up everyone’s lives.
/rant
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Because no one knows exactly what will happen and when, so it is possible that something will change long before you are dead, that will make your life worse.
And what does your attitude say about future generations?
When you were young and playing games on your lovely ZX Spectrum, would you have liked it if the government had banned children from using computers to play games? Or passed laws preventing anyone who was not employed by the state from producing computer programs and software?
/rant2
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Well put Winston something tells me you felt the pinch as well. :-)
Like many others thanks to the likes of the three day week I struggled to find the mortgage payment which was £65 a month more than my take home pay once wages dropped, at more than one point I had to defer payment and have it tacked on at the end and I say again we bought homes to live in not to profiteer from so no worries about our "investment" going tits up our concern was losing a home not a house. if we got lucky at a future time then sorry I'll open a vein.
I fully acknowledge and respect the fact that today's generation have a horrendous task in front of them re buying property finding a sky high deposit etc but one cannot help when one was born can one? I honestly feel for todays generation and their plight but not EVERYTHING is the fault of we Boomers regardless of a few veiled comments suggesting so.
I just wish that the same acknowledgement could be afforded to those of us who experienced life back than and whose views on those times are based on the facts of our,not just my, existence(before anyone suggests it was only my experience) and not something plucked from the internet-read in a book-cut/pasted as original thought-debated in the sixth form common room or scribbled on a pisspot wall.
rant-apologies-said I would-leave-it etc.
Bravo. Je vous salue mon frère
Yes, we all know the standard story, and how large sections of society were affected. My point was just that it wasn't like that for everyone, and was not a direct result of the level of interest rates / inflation, more their instability.
And please, refrain from the patronisation, my views are not age related.
The anti Iraq war demonstration in London was one of the largest public demonstrations in human history. Totally ignored.
The last big demo I can think of that changed anything in the UK was possibly against the poll tax, but that probably had a lot to do with a cold calculation that the enforcement of it in the circumstances would be un -economic.
Meh heh