Watching the BBC coverage. Amused by the foreigns who now think that we're all a bunch of racists that don't like them.
I find it strange how one poll can suddenly alter people's perception so much?
OH MY GOD, IT'S A COUNTRY OF RACISTS !!!
How much it will affect people already living over here, will ultimately come down to the next party to win the election, so it's still uncertain, and these people talking about things as if they're certain, are frankly, morons.
its been brewing for years and it HAS been brewed by the likes of the EDL, Ukip, BNP etc over the years, stoking the fires so in theory...yes it is
its patriotic pride brought on by xenophobic / racist groups of individuals.
Being patriotic doesn't mean your a xenophobe or a racist. These are straw man arguments.
Why has this being 'brewing for years'? Because your ilk shout and close down arguments by using the very pathetic arguments you have used here "racists", "xenophobes" etc...
if you learn to read, what i actually said was thus............
THIS show of patriotic pride (ie:- taking our country back) has been stoked by years (decades) of speil by obvious far right / racist / xenophobic groups such as the BNP, EDL, UKIP who have all spouted on and on about immigration and anti EU sentiment (even tho both the BNP and Ukip have had MEPs Oo
Professional Mel-the-Bell Simulator................"So realistic, I found myself reaching for the Kleenex King-Size!" - Richard Darling
What is it about the dominance of the USA you do not like?
I think it is good to speak with partners as an equal (at eye level). For a single state it is difficuilt to reach that eye level compared to the USA. And as the USA are a union of states in northern America the EU should be a union of states in Europe (in fact having equal rights), even if these two unions have very different historical roots.
The TTIP consultations for example needs comparable power on both sides of the table.
Ingo.
Interesting that you mention TTIP! This is the next big thing!
We can disregard it! TTIP in my understanding is that corporations can override local laws and customs, in effect give the companies overide over local law. A vote out of the EU gives a chance of rejecting TTIP to other countries or get people awake to this!
Ach but anyway. It's happened now so I'm not going to dwell on it. Lets just deal with it, eh?
don't be silly... it's a case of "yes lets have a referendum.... as long as the vote goes my way" ;)
I found it amusing how people tried to unsubtly tell me how to vote, and those who didn't get their way are spitting the dummy big time. Many on them on benefits, so imagining if they started cutting them, they'd not be too happy.
my wages took a hit because of EU folk undercutting me, so yep.. if it hits you in the pocket directly.. then you get a bit of a clearer view.. yes my investments etc have taken a battering, but as a saver I've not been getting decent returns for *YEARS* while in the EU.
the most laughable bits ? ex-pats who haven't lived here for years moaning to me on FB about it.
What is it about the dominance of the USA you do not like?
I think it is good to speak with partners as an equal (at eye level). For a single state it is difficuilt to reach that eye level compared to the USA. And as the USA are a union of states in northern America the EU should be a union of states in Europe (in fact having equal rights), even if these two unions have very different historical roots.
The TTIP consultations for example needs comparable power on both sides of the table.
Ingo.
Interesting that you mention TTIP! This is the next big thing!
We can disregard it! TTIP in my understanding is that corporations can override local laws and customs, in effect give the companies overide over local law. A vote out of the EU gives a chance of rejecting TTIP to other countries or get people awake to this!
Boris is one of TTIPs biggest fans. Watch him get a similar bilateral deal for the UK ASAFP. Funny, considering that you won't have voted for him as PM.
regarding Boris... we've had him in London as Mayor.. he wasn't fit for purpose.. self interest and self serving vanity projects for him and his old school tie network.
and I think the same applies for him going for the PM's job... yes he's funny.. but then are x amount of other folk on tv... but I don't want them doing the PM's job. If Cameron had said "Leave" then he'd have gone "Stay".. just for the sake of it.
I am of the hope, him like "the donald" are classed as too funny to have a high power job like that.
Ach but anyway. It's happened now so I'm not going to dwell on it. Lets just deal with it, eh?
my wages took a hit because of EU folk undercutting me, so yep.. if it hits you in the pocket directly.. then you get a bit of a clearer view.. yes my investments etc have taken a battering, but as a saver I've not been getting decent returns for *YEARS* while in the EU.
The points you make are more likely the fault of the global recession, not the EU.
@Van_Dammesque
Considering you wanted this thread closed, and you then said that you don't post on WoS very often, you do seem to be posting a hell of lot of replies.
I'm amused that you are continuing to take what I have said, and what others have said and continue to make your case. The poll is over. The U.K. is going to leave the E.U. So why are you still posting?
And why do you think you will change my mind. My views are just as valid as yours. I was effectively asked why I wanted to remain. So I said why. Then all I get is you picking over what I said. If this was before the referendum, I could understand it. But now? Why?
I do not post to change YOUR mind, I post so that others can see the rational behind the counter argument.
I post because you have also posted AFTER the poll is over, otherwise why did you post?
To the validity of view points being equal, I disagree, of course you can have opinions, but these opinions are based upon fact and rational, non of which has been demonstrated!
I'm also amused that you think that the UK national government will be 100% accountable to the people of this country. Err, no. Not with a first past the post system, and where elections only have to be held every FIVE years. It is more like an elected dictatorship from where I am.
Mark
I am glad that you see the undemocratic nature of the British establishment, so why be so for of the same? Is it because a mild left-wing dictatorship of the EU suits your needs?
What is it about the dominance of the USA you do not like?
I think it is good to speak with partners as an equal (at eye level). For a single state it is difficuilt to reach that eye level compared to the USA. And as the USA are a union of states in northern America the EU should be a union of states in Europe (in fact having equal rights), even if these two unions have very different historical roots.
The TTIP consultations for example needs comparable power on both sides of the table.
Ingo.
Interesting that you mention TTIP! This is the next big thing!
We can disregard it! TTIP in my understanding is that corporations can override local laws and customs, in effect give the companies overide over local law. A vote out of the EU gives a chance of rejecting TTIP to other countries or get people awake to this!
Boris is one of TTIPs biggest fans. Watch him get a similar bilateral deal for the UK ASAFP. Funny, considering that you won't have voted for him as PM.
What is it about the dominance of the USA you do not like?
I think it is good to speak with partners as an equal (at eye level). For a single state it is difficuilt to reach that eye level compared to the USA. And as the USA are a union of states in northern America the EU should be a union of states in Europe (in fact having equal rights), even if these two unions have very different historical roots.
The TTIP consultations for example needs comparable power on both sides of the table.
Ingo.
Interesting that you mention TTIP! This is the next big thing!
We can disregard it! TTIP in my understanding is that corporations can override local laws and customs, in effect give the companies overide over local law. A vote out of the EU gives a chance of rejecting TTIP to other countries or get people awake to this!
Boris is one of TTIPs biggest fans. Watch him get a similar bilateral deal for the UK ASAFP. Funny, considering that you won't have voted for him as PM.
Would never vote for Boris, so yes it is funny.
Chances are that he will be PM before Christmas though.
Views outside of Russia on the goings on there are quite different from what is portrayed inside Russia. For instance, Crimea was a clandestine invasion by Russia, who took control of media outlets, pumped propaganda onto the airwaves and held a weekend vote with gun-toting soldiers in the streets to legitimize annexation. In every other democratic country in the world, votes on separation normally happen after many years of public discussion and sometimes fester for decades. That's quite different from the week-long propaganda push by Russia after that invasion.
I think it's best not to pollute this thread with such discussion :)
I don't want to extend this (off-topic) discussion.. but is needed to add one more dimension.. which maybe western media has not covered too profoundly.
And it is the USA and EU contrivances ( very typical from USA, we have to recognize that )
to get right-wing oligarchy gains power at Ukraine. They wanted gas, evidently. That was a very important part for USA and EU.
If you do not take that in mind, then you are not looking the whole picture.
Also, we are waiting for you to tell us what goods we are going to sell to China, and what do you think of the planned annihilation of the UK manufacturing sector by Brexit's leading economist.
Another argument I have seen before, what DO you make of it?
After all you posted it, what is your argument?
( a poll before the referendum, but the referendum is the actually 'anonymous'!)
Yeah, going by his replies to me, we may be waiting a long time.
In the same post where he quoted me saying why, he asks why I posted my reasons for voting remain >:)
And he cannot understand why I voted to remain, but dislike the British electoral system, when again I said why in my earlier post. I fancy he may not actually know much about the EU and how it works. If he does, maybe he can tell us.
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Whether I'm a citizen in an independent country (of any size) or a citizen of a country that's part of a supranational entity, I can never have the absolute freedom to do whatever I want, I always have to take others into consideration.
OK sounds like your fine being under a undemocratic dictatorship, but here this: your argument is that you want a better deal than the Barnett formula?
Well, in the UK, we have an amending chamber that is entirely populated by appointees and hereditary peers. We have a supreme court, all unelected. We cannot elect the head of state, it is a hereditary post.
Were we living in a European dictatorship? Well some things were decided by qualified majority, but that is a consequence of being in a union. You don't get to vote for MPs in England/Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales (delete as applicable) but you still have to abide by the decision of parliament. If you class the EU as a dictatorship then you must class the UK (or any kind of union) as a dictatorship, if you judge them by the same standards. We also have specific opt-outs from certain categories of EU law, in the areas that were deemed most important by the elected UK government of the day.
Of course, the ultimate test of dictatorship would be "can you vote to leave?" and the answer was yes...
As for the Barnett formula, that only covers money. It's far from the powers of a sovereign or fully-devolved state.
Everyone I see complaining that the EU is undemocratic because you don't vote for the president fundamentally fails to understand representative democracy.
This is hardly a surprise though as every 5 years you can witness hordes of morons failing to understand how the general election works.
Yeah, going by his replies to me, we may be waiting a long time.
In the same post where he quoted me saying why, he asks why I posted my reasons for voting remain >:)
And he cannot understand why I voted to remain, but dislike the British electoral system, when again I said why in my earlier post. I fancy he may not actually know much about the EU and how it works. If he does, maybe he can tell us.
Awaiting the detailed reply...
Detailed reply? I have already given you a detailed reply!
Everyone I see complaining that the EU is undemocratic because you don't vote for the president fundamentally fails to understand representative democracy.
This is hardly a surprise though as every 5 years you can witness hordes of morons failing to understand how the general election works.
Yep, my ballot paper had the cross next the next EU president, but being part of the HORDES OF MORONS (see admins) that I didn't vote the 'correct way'!
Comments
if you learn to read, what i actually said was thus............
THIS show of patriotic pride (ie:- taking our country back) has been stoked by years (decades) of speil by obvious far right / racist / xenophobic groups such as the BNP, EDL, UKIP who have all spouted on and on about immigration and anti EU sentiment (even tho both the BNP and Ukip have had MEPs Oo
Interesting that you mention TTIP! This is the next big thing!
We can disregard it! TTIP in my understanding is that corporations can override local laws and customs, in effect give the companies overide over local law. A vote out of the EU gives a chance of rejecting TTIP to other countries or get people awake to this!
Click show quotes or I'm not used to the quoting system! :p
When i say it's done - it's DONE :D
don't be silly... it's a case of "yes lets have a referendum.... as long as the vote goes my way" ;)
I found it amusing how people tried to unsubtly tell me how to vote, and those who didn't get their way are spitting the dummy big time. Many on them on benefits, so imagining if they started cutting them, they'd not be too happy.
my wages took a hit because of EU folk undercutting me, so yep.. if it hits you in the pocket directly.. then you get a bit of a clearer view.. yes my investments etc have taken a battering, but as a saver I've not been getting decent returns for *YEARS* while in the EU.
the most laughable bits ? ex-pats who haven't lived here for years moaning to me on FB about it.
Boris is one of TTIPs biggest fans. Watch him get a similar bilateral deal for the UK ASAFP. Funny, considering that you won't have voted for him as PM.
and I think the same applies for him going for the PM's job... yes he's funny.. but then are x amount of other folk on tv... but I don't want them doing the PM's job. If Cameron had said "Leave" then he'd have gone "Stay".. just for the sake of it.
I am of the hope, him like "the donald" are classed as too funny to have a high power job like that.
The points you make are more likely the fault of the global recession, not the EU.
I post because you have also posted AFTER the poll is over, otherwise why did you post?
To the validity of view points being equal, I disagree, of course you can have opinions, but these opinions are based upon fact and rational, non of which has been demonstrated!
I am glad that you see the undemocratic nature of the British establishment, so why be so for of the same? Is it because a mild left-wing dictatorship of the EU suits your needs?
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153842562976939/
Chances are that he will be PM before Christmas though.
I don't want to extend this (off-topic) discussion.. but is needed to add one more dimension.. which maybe western media has not covered too profoundly.
And it is the USA and EU contrivances ( very typical from USA, we have to recognize that )
to get right-wing oligarchy gains power at Ukraine. They wanted gas, evidently. That was a very important part for USA and EU.
If you do not take that in mind, then you are not looking the whole picture.
*turns to Scotland* Hawl...hawl boys! Van_Dammesque here... *points back over shoulder using thumb* he hinks wir aw pure aff ur nuts!
Citation needed.
Also, we are waiting for you to tell us what goods we are going to sell to China, and what do you think of the planned annihilation of the UK manufacturing sector by Brexit's leading economist.
Another argument I have seen before, what DO you make of it?
After all you posted it, what is your argument?
( a poll before the referendum, but the referendum is the actually 'anonymous'!)
In the same post where he quoted me saying why, he asks why I posted my reasons for voting remain >:)
And he cannot understand why I voted to remain, but dislike the British electoral system, when again I said why in my earlier post. I fancy he may not actually know much about the EU and how it works. If he does, maybe he can tell us.
Awaiting the detailed reply...
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Well, in the UK, we have an amending chamber that is entirely populated by appointees and hereditary peers. We have a supreme court, all unelected. We cannot elect the head of state, it is a hereditary post.
Were we living in a European dictatorship? Well some things were decided by qualified majority, but that is a consequence of being in a union. You don't get to vote for MPs in England/Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales (delete as applicable) but you still have to abide by the decision of parliament. If you class the EU as a dictatorship then you must class the UK (or any kind of union) as a dictatorship, if you judge them by the same standards. We also have specific opt-outs from certain categories of EU law, in the areas that were deemed most important by the elected UK government of the day.
Of course, the ultimate test of dictatorship would be "can you vote to leave?" and the answer was yes...
As for the Barnett formula, that only covers money. It's far from the powers of a sovereign or fully-devolved state.
Also reply to my argument: so what?
This is hardly a surprise though as every 5 years you can witness hordes of morons failing to understand how the general election works.
Yep, my ballot paper had the cross next the next EU president, but being part of the HORDES OF MORONS (see admins) that I didn't vote the 'correct way'!