Brexit

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  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    Yeah, going by his replies to me, we may be waiting a long time.
    In the same post where he quoted me saying why, he asks why I posted my reasons for voting remain >:)

    And he cannot understand why I voted to remain, but dislike the British electoral system, when again I said why in my earlier post. I fancy he may not actually know much about the EU and how it works. If he does, maybe he can tell us.

    Awaiting the detailed reply...
    Detailed reply? I have already given you a detailed reply!
    Still awaiting a detailed reply that describes what you know about the EU and what you know about how it works.

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  • Yep, my ballot paper had the cross next the next EU president, but being part of the HORDES OF MORONS (see admins) that I didn't vote the 'correct way'!

    What a complete non-sequitur. I've no idea what you're saying but I'll guess it confirms what I said.
  • Jmk wrote: »
    Jmk wrote: »
    Whether I'm a citizen in an independent country (of any size) or a citizen of a country that's part of a supranational entity, I can never have the absolute freedom to do whatever I want, I always have to take others into consideration.

    OK sounds like your fine being under a undemocratic dictatorship, but here this: your argument is that you want a better deal than the Barnett formula?

    Well, in the UK, we have an amending chamber that is entirely populated by appointees and hereditary peers. We have a supreme court, all unelected. We cannot elect the head of state, it is a hereditary post.

    Were we living in a European dictatorship? Well some things were decided by qualified majority, but that is a consequence of being in a union. You don't get to vote for MPs in England/Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales (delete as applicable) but you still have to abide by the decision of parliament. If you class the EU as a dictatorship then you must class the UK (or any kind of union) as a dictatorship, if you judge them by the same standards. We also have specific opt-outs from certain categories of EU law, in the areas that were deemed most important by the elected UK government of the day.

    Of course, the ultimate test of dictatorship would be "can you vote to leave?" and the answer was yes...

    As for the Barnett formula, that only covers money. It's far from the powers of a sovereign or fully-devolved state.

    OK if this is true you have voted for a system that adds another layer of 'un-democracy'!?
  • OK if this is true you have voted for a system that adds another layer of 'un-democracy'!?

    No, if Scotland leave they the UK will remove layers of un-democracy and if they join the EU they will add layers of democracy.
    Simply repeating yourself over and over again doesn't further your argument that the EU is undemocratic.
  • Black_Cat wrote: »
    Everything is relative :) . About 97% of the Crimean population voted for the return of the Peninsula to Russia. This referendum was attended by about 87% of the residents. Evaluate the difference :) .
    Views outside of Russia on the goings on there are quite different from what is portrayed inside Russia. For instance, Crimea was a clandestine invasion by Russia, who took control of media outlets, pumped propaganda onto the airwaves and held a weekend vote with gun-toting soldiers in the streets to legitimize annexation. In every other deomocratic country in the world, votes on separation normally happen after many years of public discussion and sometimes fester for decades. That's quite different from the week-long propaganda push by Russia after that invasion.

    I think it's best not to pollute this thread with such discussion :)

    It is quite natural that Western propaganda turns white into black and Vice versa, given that the EU and the USA were the sponsors of an unconstitutional Nazi coup in Ukraine :) .
  • guesser wrote: »
    OK if this is true you have voted for a system that adds another layer of 'un-democracy'!?

    No, if Scotland leave they the UK will remove layers of un-democracy and if they join the EU they will add layers of democracy.
    Simply repeating yourself over and over again doesn't further your argument that the EU is undemocratic.

    You are missing a fundamental point:
    Scotland says we want freedom. Gets it/
    Scotland says: We go cap in hand to the EU!
    EU says says yes we accept! Here are x,y,z demands!
    Scotland: were also want a,b,c.
    EU: nope!
    Scotland: but but....
    Good luck if this your outlook.
  • Excuse me, do you mind. We are trying to have our own civil war here. We don't need to worry about Ukraine at the moment. X(
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  • guesser wrote: »
    Yep, my ballot paper had the cross next the next EU president, but being part of the HORDES OF MORONS (see admins) that I didn't vote the 'correct way'!

    What a complete non-sequitur. I've no idea what you're saying but I'll guess it confirms what I said.

    It means have YOU voted for the EU president etc..?
    Have you had a pamphlet stating what the next EU 'dictat' said?
    A manifesto from EU commission?
    Have you?
  • You are missing a fundamental point:
    Scotland says we want freedom. Gets it/
    Scotland says: We go cap in hand to the EU!
    EU says says yes we accept! Here are x,y,z demands!
    Scotland: were also want a,b,c.
    EU: nope!
    Scotland: but but....

    You accidentally forgot to mention how that post follows on from your "EU is uncemocratic" 'argument'...

    If Scotland want to leave the UK so that they can pursue a continued membership of the EU then I'm sure that's what will happen. I can't see how they can be denied a second referendum now, so it's up to them.
  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    Still awaiting a detailed reply that describes what you know about the EU and what you know about how it works.

    [/quote]

    A lot, but if I were to supply the facts would YOU change your mind? Nope is my guess, so why waste my time!
  • edited June 2016
    A lot, but if I were to supply the facts would YOU change your mind? Nope is my guess, so why waste my time!
    Oh well I guess you win then, you must be right. Thanks for saving us so much time.
    Post edited by guesser on
  • guesser wrote: »
    A lot, but if I were to supply the facts would YOU change your mind? Nope is my guess, so why waste my time!
    Oh well I guess you win then, you must be right. Thanks for saving us so much time.
    OK, you go, list the references...
  • A lot, but if I were to supply the facts would YOU change your mind? Nope is my guess, so why waste my time!
    Well, until you say, how would I know?

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  • I aj still waiting on my 1st reference....
  • OK, you go, list the references...

    Excuse me?
  • @Van_Dammesque have you even spoken with your elected MEP?
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  • guesser wrote: »
    You accidentally forgot to mention how that post follows on from your "EU is uncemocratic" 'argument'...

    If Scotland want to leave the UK so that they can pursue a continued membership of the EU then I'm sure that's what will happen. I can't see how they can be denied a second referendum now, so it's up to them.
    Who are them?
    The Scottish have had two votes:
    1. Depart from the UK? No.
    2. Should the UK depart from the the EU.Yes.

    These are two and distinct separate questions.
  • Dave_C wrote: »
    Happy with this, Van_Dammesque?

    13516571_806690559432955_68715074629828810_n.png?oh=ae20359c2633ddfd3e4116bd5c530ec8&oe=57FE8865

    Virtually all young folk I know voted 'leave' (if they voted at all), but there again most young folk I know are single mothers, chavs etc.

    This crap about the 'young' all being pro EU is utter nonsense, they are polling a handful of students and using that as some kind of guide as to which way the 'youth' tend to lean.

    These findings are not representative of the youth at all. If these pollsters took a trip off university campus they'd understand.
  • redballoon wrote: »
    No, that's the break down of the actual vote not a poll before the referendum.

    Link?
  • edited June 2016
    Hmm, not that I have asked everyone, but keeping in mind the age ranges in the posted chart, yep, they count as "young" and yep, of those I talked with, more were for remain than leave (this was before the the actual vote).

    Don't know about other age ranges, as I did not ask many older people (bit hard to find people over the retirement age at work).

    Mark
    Post edited by 1024MAK on
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  • Who are them?

    What, who are the people who will decide the outcome of a second Scottish independence referendum? I'm guessing that would be the Scottish electorate.
  • edited June 2016
    1024MAK wrote: »
    Hmm, not that I have asked everyone, but keeping in mind the age ranges in the posted chart, yep, they count as "young" and yep, of those I talked with, more were for remain than leave (this was before the the actual vote).

    Don't know about other age ranges, as I did ask many older people (bit hard to find people over the retirement age at work).

    Mark
    So no link?!
    Post edited by Van_Dammesque on
  • redballoon wrote: »
    No, that's the break down of the actual vote not a poll before the referendum.

    No it isn't... It's an exit poll. The source is right there in the screenshot...
  • edited June 2016
    No, I am referring to people I talked with.
    Post edited by 1024MAK on
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  • guesser wrote: »
    What, who are the people who will decide the outcome of a second Scottish independence referendum? I'm guessing that would be the Scottish electorate.

    They have no mandate, but if they did, they would walk into an EU dictatorship, that little nippy would be proud of.
    Where is your argument for freedom or democracy!? Why do you want independence if only to remove it!?
  • Black_Cat wrote: »

    It is quite natural that Western propaganda turns white into black and Vice versa, given that the EU and the USA were the sponsors of an unconstitutional Nazi coup in Ukraine :) .[/quote]

    Where are you from Black cat?
  • Link:
    gnt-media-link-building.png
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    ! Standby alert !
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    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
  • guesser wrote: »
    What, who are the people who will decide the outcome of a second Scottish independence referendum? I'm guessing that would be the Scottish electorate.

    They have no mandate, but if they did, they would walk into an EU dictatorship, that little nippy would be proud of.
    Where is your argument for freedom or democracy!? Why do you want independence if only to remove it!?

    What? The Scottish people have no mandate :-O
    Don't say that out loud near Scotland, or near a Scottish person :))
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    ! Standby alert !
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    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    @Van_Dammesque have you even spoken with your elected MEP?
    Still waiting.....
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    ! Standby alert !
    “There are four lights!”
    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    A lot, but if I were to supply the facts would YOU change your mind? Nope is my guess, so why waste my time!
    Well, until you say, how would I know?
    And still waiting here as well...

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    former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
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    ! Standby alert !
    “There are four lights!”
    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
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