sure, because polls have been shown to be an accurate representation of the sentiment of the people!
Even the bookies (who very rarely get it wrong) that used the polls were astounded. Leave was consistently 3/1 - 4/1 against in the month before the vote.
Leave was 9/1 against just after 10PM as polls closed.
In the early hours of the morning Leave was 11/1 on.
The problem with polls is that they tell you the answer to the question you ask them and it is very very difficult not to ask a loaded question
the reason the EU want Brexit to happen quickly is because there is a very real "danger" or "opportunity" (depending on your viewpoint) that the EU will disintegrate (subsequent exits by the Netherland, Denmark, Sweden, Austria and even France down the line); especially if the UK manages to snag a deal that gives them decent access to the market but no interference from the EU Parliament/Commission/Council.
I think a bigger reason is the effect that the current uncertainty is having on the markets, and the economies of the EU countries.
the reason the EU want Brexit to happen quickly is because there is a very real "danger" or "opportunity" (depending on your viewpoint) that the EU will disintegrate (subsequent exits by the Netherland, Denmark, Sweden, Austria and even France down the line); especially if the UK manages to snag a deal that gives them decent access to the market but no interference from the EU Parliament/Commission/Council.
I think a bigger reason is the effect that the current uncertainty is having on the markets, and the economies of the EU countries.
Effectively, that is the same reason.
The EU wants to stabilise the present situation before it shakes itself apart.
I don't think that is possible or likely. The EU have been wilfully blind to the growing scepticism throughout Europe, and wilfully blind as that scepticism turned to hostility. The EU, in its present incarnation, is finished. Political projects can only work when there a firm consensus. Drawing together different political cultures always, and imposing a distant bureaucracy, always ends in failure.
A European community, or a European commonwealth, without the parliament, the courts, the diktats, can work; a European Union cannot.
sure, because polls have been shown to be an accurate representation of the sentiment of the people!
Even the bookies (who very rarely get it wrong) that used the polls were astounded. Leave was consistently 3/1 - 4/1 against in the month before the vote.
Leave was 9/1 against just after 10PM as polls closed.
In the early hours of the morning Leave was 11/1 on.
The problem with polls is that they tell you the answer to the question you ask them and it is very very difficult not to ask a loaded question
I just posted the link so people could read the article for themselves. In fact, in the figures given, leave would still have won. Yes, polls will never, ever be accurate, because the results are extrapolated from a small (-ish) sample.
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
The EU have been wilfully blind to the growing scepticism throughout Europe, and wilfully blind as that scepticism turned to hostility. The EU, in its present incarnation, is finished. Political projects can only work when there a firm consensus. Drawing together different political cultures always, and imposing a distant bureaucracy, always ends in failure.
A European community, or a European commonwealth, without the parliament, the courts, the diktats, can work; a European Union cannot.
Not so sure about that. The EU tends to get the blame, but a lot of the problems are related to not so great national governments and political parties.
Resentment can be caused by so many different things.
Add in trouble makers, and some people will listen to the rubbish they spout (which is often carefully dressed up to sound reasonable, like a good salesman does) and then with the aid of peer pressure, you find there is a movement with a lot of followers. That does not make their cause the best answer to the supposed problems.
Bringing together different political cultures does sometimes work. But often it is slow. As with humans, it has to be slow so most people can accept the change.
If you look around, there are countries where this has happened. Of course there are plenty of failures too (a lot caused by the withdrawal of the British Empire).
If I was to say to you, "I would like to bring every basic workers normal pay (and therefore living standards) up to a reasonably good level, how would you do that for 28 countries?
Same for trading rules, taxation, etc.
I mean, why the hell do the people on this planet think is good to have so many different currencies? I would like to see just a single worldwide currency.
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
I mean, why the hell do the people on this planet think is good to have so many different currencies? I would like to see just a single worldwide currency.
Because costs are vastly different in different places, and by locally varying the value of the currency you can control costs whilst keeping local wages steady and the cost of living under control.
If, for example, we all used the US dollar, who would set the value of borrowing a dollar if you lived in a village in the Congo? The US Treasury? That obviously would not work.
And how could you control local prices? If, say, a bag of rice in the Congo was priced at a dollar, but the US Treasury devalued the dollar, the cost of the bag of rice would go up in the Congo, regardless of economic conditions in the Congo.
If you do not have the US Treasury setting the value, then who does? And who determines the amount of currency in circulation?
So, if there is not an absolute value of the currency, but local fluctuations, then in effect you have different currencies and you care back to where you started.
Look at the Eurozone, which is a disaster; where wages vary from over 3000 Euros to 1000 Euros a month; and there is desperate economic problems in the countries where wages are lowest.
Do any anti-Europeans advocate the breakup of the USA or the dollar zone? Do they believe that the various federal structures of the USA (the US Supreme Court, FBI, central government, federal taxation, fiscal union, etc) are completely unnecessary and that "the USA would work just fine" without them?
I mean, why the hell do the people on this planet think is good to have so many different currencies? I would like to see just a single worldwide currency.
Because costs are vastly different in different places, and by locally varying the value of the currency you can control costs whilst keeping local wages steady and the cost of living under control.
If, for example, we all used the US dollar, who would set the value of borrowing a dollar if you lived in a village in the Congo? The US Treasury? That obviously would not work.
And how could you control local prices? If, say, a bag of rice in the Congo was priced at a dollar, but the US Treasury devalued the dollar, the cost of the bag of rice would go up in the Congo, regardless of economic conditions in the Congo.
If you do not have the US Treasury setting the value, then who does? And who determines the amount of currency in circulation?
So, if there is not an absolute value of the currency, but local fluctuations, then in effect you have different currencies and you care back to where you started.
Look at the Eurozone, which is a disaster; where wages vary from over 3000 Euros to 1000 Euros a month; and there is desperate economic problems in the countries where wages are lowest.
I think you may have completely missed the point. There are NO currency differences if there is ONLY ONE currency. With a such a system, there is no such thing as devaluation of the currency. As there is no other currency! The value of the currency will likely find a natural level, but it will be against gold etc, not against any currency, as it would be the only currency.
If there ever was a single worldwide currency, the interest rates would be set by a world bank, not any single country. If there was a single world wide currency, chances are, there may be less inflationary pressures.
There are always different costs. You get this in any medium to large country. So for example, costs in my home town in the UK are different to Cornwall, Bristol, South Wales...
Yes, there would be winners and losers. But there are other ways to help less well off countries.
Bringing together different political cultures does sometimes work.
where?
Most medium to large stable countries. I was going to use a European island country to the north of France, but maybe it's not such a good example in light of recent events :))
So instead, I will use the USA and Australia. Both of which started as lots of completely separate communities. Now both are stable countries with various cultures.
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
I mean, why the hell do the people on this planet think is good to have so many different currencies? I would like to see just a single worldwide currency.
Mark
Each wants sole control of the printing press, in order to Rob the whole world by printing unsecured paper. But to make this possible, it is also necessary to have military superiority in the world.
I mean, why the hell do the people on this planet think is good to have so many different currencies? I would like to see just a single worldwide currency.
Mark
Each wants sole control of the printing press, in order to Rob the whole world by printing unsecured paper. But to make this possible, it is also necessary to have military superiority in the world.
The points you make are more likely the fault of the global recession, not the EU.
Anyone who saved in recent years, has been "annoyed" for years by folk who KNOWINGLY (not talking about all) got up to their eye balls in debt and the interest rates are a load of crud due to subsidizing them.
what my wages getting trashed ?nope, really badly recently... by someone who is on a far cheaper contract? no freedom of movement.. they wouldn't be here and it's a case of "who they know" partly coming into it also.
adversely I deffo wouldn't be in their EU country , as nice as it looks... as if I went there I'd have to be paying for healthcare , and get no benefits for family etc.
there was a programme on specifically about the council I live in London a few years back.... people who were seriously "taking the mick"... if you saw it, you'd remember it.. some bloke with 6 kids and a wife.. "oh I want a big house even though I've put nothing in".... and how many hours a week did he work 13 hours.. some kids probably have longer paper rounds. the git even had the cheek to suggest the council folk were upsetting his kids, not their fault they have an idiot for a dad.
My friend is moving up to yorkshire as his kid is the only english one in the class... some might say "Oh thats xenophobic" etc.. but the kids class mates are mainly from the EU and have english as a 2nd language and obviously are taking up more of the teachers time with that.
it's not a recent thing how the EU has treated England, and luckily they didn't go in with the Euro currency, if they knew what we did now.. I bet many countries wouldn't have gone in.
all them lovely EU funded roads in Ireland where my folks are from ?.. not used as much as they should, lots went off to Oz / Canada for work now.
I mean, why the hell do the people on this planet think is good to have so many different currencies? I would like to see just a single worldwide currency.
Mark
Different economies are driven by different kinds of goods and services. By having independent currencies you can stabilise the local economic situation rather than being disrupted by wider issues. A nation with a predominantly farming based economy, for example, shouldn't be forced into a slump because of a fall in demand for oil - which would happen under a single currency.
The biggest failing of the EU was always trying to push for a single currency, despite individual nations having widely diverse economies.
Interesting choice there by the British populace. I wouldn't have thought that leaving EU would be considered a good strategy by such a large number of people (and apparently a majority), but I guess there is only one way to find out now.
One thing it *has* done is bring out all the racist and xenophobic bullies who seem to have a misguided notion about what this entire exercise of "exit EU" was all about. I quite worry for you lot if the people who voted "Leave" did so with such a tunnel vision because it shows that fascism is alive and well, ironically, in a country that fought the world war against nations fueled by the very same extreme fascist ideas (and I needn't point out that Germany now is a shining example, VW notwithstanding, of a tolerant and vibrant nation. And their football team is good too (sorry, couldn't resist the dig!)). That's not to say WoSsers who voted "Leave" think the same way - I'm sure you had your reasons. I just hope they weren't the ones I gave above, because that will make me a very sad bunny indeed.
One thing it *has* done is bring out all the racist and xenophobic bullies who seem to have a misguided notion about what this entire exercise of "exit EU" was all about. I quite worry for you lot if the people who voted "Leave" did so with such a tunnel vision because it shows that fascism is alive and well, ironically, in a country that fought the world war against nations fueled by the very same extreme fascist ideas (and I needn't point out that Germany now is a shining example, VW notwithstanding, of a tolerant and vibrant nation. And their football team is good too (sorry, couldn't resist the dig!)). That's not to say WoSsers who voted "Leave" think the same way - I'm sure you had your reasons. I just hope they weren't the ones I gave above, because that will make me a very sad bunny indeed.
Sorry, but thats complete and utter nonsense, those type of people would be doing this kind of stuff regardless of any democratic vote.
More likely these episodes are orchestrated by embittered remainers or the immigrants themselves.
No one will ever be convicted of these crimes because no evidence exists to back them up.
If anything a Brexit vote should have placated such sentiment, those actions would be far more likely to occur if a remain vote had been achieved.
Again its just desperate establishment propaganda. These remain people simply cant stop telling lies, scarmongering and making stuff up.
Davey, do you believe that the Leave campaign is whiter than white through all this, that they're completely above board and some Leave supporters are not stirring anything? I'm genuinely curious, see. Both sides have been pretty appalling, really.
Davey, do you believe that the Leave campaign is whiter than white through all this, that they're completely above board and some Leave supporters are not stirring anything? I'm genuinely curious, see. Both sides have been pretty appalling, really.
No certainly not, but it hasnt resorted to the WW3 armageddon doomsday scarmongering that the remain side have.
More likely these episodes are orchestrated by embittered remainers or the immigrants themselves.
No one will ever be convicted of these crimes because no evidence exists to back them up.
If anything a Brexit vote should have placated such sentiment, those actions would be far more likely to occur if a remain vote had been achieved.
Again its just desperate establishment propaganda. These remain people simply cant stop telling lies, scarmongering and making stuff up.
Really? Anyway, back in the real world, racist crimes have gone up 60% in a week, there are daily videos of crimes posted all over the internet, kids shouted at outside schools, etc...
I have to renew my passport in July (It expires in September)...I wondering if I will get a 10yr EU one like I currently have....and then have to pay to change it in a year or two..
Really? Anyway, back in the real world, racist crimes have gone up 60% in a week, there are daily videos of crimes posted all over the internet, kids shouted at outside schools, etc...
Ok provide the evidence, lets see these videos.
If the evidence really does exist then the perpertrators would have been apprehended and publicly vilified by now.
Comments
sure, because polls have been shown to be an accurate representation of the sentiment of the people!
Even the bookies (who very rarely get it wrong) that used the polls were astounded. Leave was consistently 3/1 - 4/1 against in the month before the vote.
Leave was 9/1 against just after 10PM as polls closed.
In the early hours of the morning Leave was 11/1 on.
The problem with polls is that they tell you the answer to the question you ask them and it is very very difficult not to ask a loaded question
I think a bigger reason is the effect that the current uncertainty is having on the markets, and the economies of the EU countries.
Effectively, that is the same reason.
The EU wants to stabilise the present situation before it shakes itself apart.
I don't think that is possible or likely. The EU have been wilfully blind to the growing scepticism throughout Europe, and wilfully blind as that scepticism turned to hostility. The EU, in its present incarnation, is finished. Political projects can only work when there a firm consensus. Drawing together different political cultures always, and imposing a distant bureaucracy, always ends in failure.
A European community, or a European commonwealth, without the parliament, the courts, the diktats, can work; a European Union cannot.
I just posted the link so people could read the article for themselves. In fact, in the figures given, leave would still have won. Yes, polls will never, ever be accurate, because the results are extrapolated from a small (-ish) sample.
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Resentment can be caused by so many different things.
Add in trouble makers, and some people will listen to the rubbish they spout (which is often carefully dressed up to sound reasonable, like a good salesman does) and then with the aid of peer pressure, you find there is a movement with a lot of followers. That does not make their cause the best answer to the supposed problems.
Bringing together different political cultures does sometimes work. But often it is slow. As with humans, it has to be slow so most people can accept the change.
If you look around, there are countries where this has happened. Of course there are plenty of failures too (a lot caused by the withdrawal of the British Empire).
If I was to say to you, "I would like to bring every basic workers normal pay (and therefore living standards) up to a reasonably good level, how would you do that for 28 countries?
Same for trading rules, taxation, etc.
I mean, why the hell do the people on this planet think is good to have so many different currencies? I would like to see just a single worldwide currency.
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Because costs are vastly different in different places, and by locally varying the value of the currency you can control costs whilst keeping local wages steady and the cost of living under control.
If, for example, we all used the US dollar, who would set the value of borrowing a dollar if you lived in a village in the Congo? The US Treasury? That obviously would not work.
And how could you control local prices? If, say, a bag of rice in the Congo was priced at a dollar, but the US Treasury devalued the dollar, the cost of the bag of rice would go up in the Congo, regardless of economic conditions in the Congo.
If you do not have the US Treasury setting the value, then who does? And who determines the amount of currency in circulation?
So, if there is not an absolute value of the currency, but local fluctuations, then in effect you have different currencies and you care back to where you started.
Look at the Eurozone, which is a disaster; where wages vary from over 3000 Euros to 1000 Euros a month; and there is desperate economic problems in the countries where wages are lowest.
where?
If there ever was a single worldwide currency, the interest rates would be set by a world bank, not any single country. If there was a single world wide currency, chances are, there may be less inflationary pressures.
There are always different costs. You get this in any medium to large country. So for example, costs in my home town in the UK are different to Cornwall, Bristol, South Wales...
Yes, there would be winners and losers. But there are other ways to help less well off countries.
Most medium to large stable countries. I was going to use a European island country to the north of France, but maybe it's not such a good example in light of recent events :))
So instead, I will use the USA and Australia. Both of which started as lots of completely separate communities. Now both are stable countries with various cultures.
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Anyone who saved in recent years, has been "annoyed" for years by folk who KNOWINGLY (not talking about all) got up to their eye balls in debt and the interest rates are a load of crud due to subsidizing them.
what my wages getting trashed ?nope, really badly recently... by someone who is on a far cheaper contract? no freedom of movement.. they wouldn't be here and it's a case of "who they know" partly coming into it also.
adversely I deffo wouldn't be in their EU country , as nice as it looks... as if I went there I'd have to be paying for healthcare , and get no benefits for family etc.
there was a programme on specifically about the council I live in London a few years back.... people who were seriously "taking the mick"... if you saw it, you'd remember it.. some bloke with 6 kids and a wife.. "oh I want a big house even though I've put nothing in".... and how many hours a week did he work 13 hours.. some kids probably have longer paper rounds. the git even had the cheek to suggest the council folk were upsetting his kids, not their fault they have an idiot for a dad.
My friend is moving up to yorkshire as his kid is the only english one in the class... some might say "Oh thats xenophobic" etc.. but the kids class mates are mainly from the EU and have english as a 2nd language and obviously are taking up more of the teachers time with that.
it's not a recent thing how the EU has treated England, and luckily they didn't go in with the Euro currency, if they knew what we did now.. I bet many countries wouldn't have gone in.
all them lovely EU funded roads in Ireland where my folks are from ?.. not used as much as they should, lots went off to Oz / Canada for work now.
The biggest failing of the EU was always trying to push for a single currency, despite individual nations having widely diverse economies.
One thing it *has* done is bring out all the racist and xenophobic bullies who seem to have a misguided notion about what this entire exercise of "exit EU" was all about. I quite worry for you lot if the people who voted "Leave" did so with such a tunnel vision because it shows that fascism is alive and well, ironically, in a country that fought the world war against nations fueled by the very same extreme fascist ideas (and I needn't point out that Germany now is a shining example, VW notwithstanding, of a tolerant and vibrant nation. And their football team is good too (sorry, couldn't resist the dig!)). That's not to say WoSsers who voted "Leave" think the same way - I'm sure you had your reasons. I just hope they weren't the ones I gave above, because that will make me a very sad bunny indeed.
Bytes:Chuntey - Spectrum tech blog.
Sorry, but thats complete and utter nonsense, those type of people would be doing this kind of stuff regardless of any democratic vote.
More likely these episodes are orchestrated by embittered remainers or the immigrants themselves.
No one will ever be convicted of these crimes because no evidence exists to back them up.
If anything a Brexit vote should have placated such sentiment, those actions would be far more likely to occur if a remain vote had been achieved.
Again its just desperate establishment propaganda. These remain people simply cant stop telling lies, scarmongering and making stuff up.
No certainly not, but it hasnt resorted to the WW3 armageddon doomsday scarmongering that the remain side have.
Really? Anyway, back in the real world, racist crimes have gone up 60% in a week, there are daily videos of crimes posted all over the internet, kids shouted at outside schools, etc...
Nice. Real nice. :-q
Ok provide the evidence, lets see these videos.
If the evidence really does exist then the perpertrators would have been apprehended and publicly vilified by now.
But no not a sausage.
mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/jamelia-racist-abuse-police-officer-8304821
theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales
Probably the same people who as kids copied someone elses homework too.
None of it has anything to do with emboldened Brexit voters using their new found powers to bully and intimidate.
The Manchester link was just a couple of chavs having a bit of a row on public transport, nothing new is it?
The Jamelia link is just her word for it, no evidence to back up her claim.
The Guardian link is just pro-remain propaganda with not a shred of evidence to back their claims that it was Brexiteers responsible.
These episodes would happen anyway regardless of Brexit.
Seems this muppet has previous for moaning to the media, she was coming out with this type of crap long before Brexit.