I almost got a job in IT, glad I didn't actually....I couldn't keep that pace up if I tried to quote Scatman John :))
Can't remember a single thing I did when I was younger, decided I didn't want an actual career as it were or at least a real one, never could decide when I was younger.
Chancer I suppose...The job I work now isn't exactly where I envisioned myself 20 years ago that's for sure, but it does what it says in the job description.
Funny thing is people think I'm a functional mongoloid, but I sometimes do feel like my brain is wasted on my job, and like I could've done something more constructive with my life. Then the lazy part of me kicks in and says to myself, don't let then know you're smarter than them or they'll hate you, either that or they'll expect you to do better.
Pretend you're crap, then people won't expect you to be good, I've noticed useless stupid people get a lot of perks in regular jobs...Don't be brilliant, and be a target, feign averageness and survive with minimal effort, and pay rises :))
Funny thing is people think I'm a functional mongoloid, but I sometimes do feel like my brain is wasted on my job, and like I could've done something more constructive with my life. Then the lazy part of me kicks in and says to myself, don't let then know you're smarter than them or they'll hate you, either that or they'll expect you to do better.
Pretend you're crap, then people won't expect you to be good, I've noticed useless stupid people get a lot of perks in regular jobs...Don't be brilliant, and be a target, feign averageness and survive with minimal effort, and pay rises :))
I know what you mean. I class myself as a reasonably good coder, but I work with a bunch of old uni bods (very clever bunch) and everyone seems to think I'm cleverer than I feel (without putting myself down). I write code and every now and then I learn some new things. I'm happy with that. But work seems to think I can be some great multi intelligent, emotional speaker, writer of documents and make it to top bod. But I not, I'm crap at that stuff because I'm just not interested.
In the words of the MCP "Somebody pushes me, I push back..."
Interesting thread. I've always been good with computers; I learnt how to use DOS and program in BASIC when I was about 8 or 9, and I obsessed over them through most of childhood. I like working in IT, but I'm not a fan of offices. I find open plan offices absolutely miserable places to work in, and I don't really see why the industry thinks that cramming people together in a noisy, distracting environment is a good idea. I guess other people can deal with that environment, but for me, it's just too much sometimes.
In my previous full time job I was absolutely miserable and I ended up getting fired (being anxious and depressed all the time wouldn't have helped). I was a pretty competent coder and felt I did high quality work; however my line manager just didn't like me, and I didn't like him, and I think he had probably wanted to get rid of me for a long time, lol.
Well, I can't say too much, because stupidly I use my real name on the internet! I'm still trying to think of a good internet alias after all these years.
I was unemployed for almost a year last year, and fell on to pretty desperate times, and really struggled with the job market. I was so depressed I just couldn't come across well in interviews. Because I was fed up of IT at this point I did consider other stuff. For a while I thought it would be great to just work in a bar, and improve the social aspect of my life and (hopefully) get my head together. I would still like to do bar work (well, a nice friendly pub), but it would be difficult to get, due to my CV not really having anything to do with bar work!
I briefly did some work as a video game developer, and it's a field I wouldn't mind getting back into again, but employers are just so demanding. I would struggle to get back in to that industry I think. Interviewers would ask why I 'decided' to stop doing video game development, and 'decided' to work in digital TV, and 'decided' to move onto web development, because of course I'm in complete control of my life and if I decide something, I get it, right? Gah! Morons!
And don't get me started on agents: "I have this great job for you in London. You would love London! So many more opportunites and ... blah blah blah" -- What? You don't even know me? I'd absolutely ferreting HATE working in London! For me, it would be a living nightmare and I'd probably throw myself off a bridge!
The games company I worked for wasn't particularly prestigious -- a tiny little company making unpopular Facebook games, but I learnt a lot about programming and enjoyed the challenges. I pretty much blagged my way into that job!
Post edited by chriswyatt on
My only Speccy game (so far): a simple snake clone
Some of my enjoyable jobs were for the small companies, that was Digital TV too. I had a bit more freedom then.
I tried the game industry back in the 90s (Remember Intelligent Games?) thinking it would be like the 80s. Gah! The best place to burn out is a games company. No good if you have a family.
Glad that others think the same about those bloody agents like me :)
I hope you're in a better place now Chris. You should try our open office. Cos its mainly developers its one of the quietest floors in the building most of the time. Just the odd conversation and laughter every now and then but it doesn't bustle. Maybe we could call you 'Singleton' since you don't like busy offices ;)
I'm impressed at your bravery.
I get the total bored of this IT stuff now.
More because we are pushed away from doing stuff (I'd rather be fixing jobs/code etc) to being managers. Managing what exactly?
But thinking of quitting scares me stupid and gives me the willies.
How do I cope?
No income for bills, etc.
What about pensions and stuff.
Anything to be steady/happy - but life and families need feeding.
More because we are pushed away from doing stuff (I'd rather be fixing jobs/code etc) to being managers. Managing what exactly?
In my last job, you could only be promoted to being a manager. Either you were code monkey or manager, with seemingly nothing inbetween. Near the end of my last job, I sort of ended up doing micro-managing, but it really was not the career path I had in mind. At one point I was spending my whole time estimating, going to boring meetings, verification and validation, Excel spreadsheets etc. etc..
Basically, I'd never imagined myself managing, and it really wasn't what I was suitable for. The problem that plagued my last company was that the management/sales types were all promoting each other and themselves, but all the code monkeys were never promoted, and if they were, it was to a management position, that, chances are, they probably didn't want. There was a very unhealthy culture at the company, and I wasn't the only one who constantly moaned about it.
It was refreshing going to different companies after this, where the developers were more valued and more on equal terms with the management; not just being bossed around, with this weird weird, sort of school classroom bureaucracy.
Things started getting very weird in my last company with the change of management. When I started, there was more banter, and you could swear, and you could make rude jokes. Then over the years it was honestly like being back at school, and it seemed like everyone was just being conditioned by the new controlling management style. I'd crack a joke to try and cheer people up, because that's my style, and then I'm being told off for apparently being 'unprofessional'. If anything I maybe helped wake people up, who were probably close to falling asleep in the boring meetings :).
My only Speccy game (so far): a simple snake clone
I totally get you, banter etc being removed.
From having a laugh with the team.
Now all communication is electronic. Everyone seems to be sucked into a world in front of the machine.
Communication all electronic! No face to face fun.
No one wants to be heard speaking too loudly - it might be used against you in a review etc!
All gone weird - like you say.
I think humour in the workplace is a good thing, I joined a firm who's output became 6 months in advance a year after I had joined, it had never been known before, the bonus went from £20 a week to £138 a week. I was so good that they didn't need me anymore, they folded within another year.
I have had grown men crying floods of tears when I left, I am that GOOD !
Every time I read that the oldest person in the world has died, I have to do a quick check to see it isn't ME..........
Ugh. Reviews. I had a load of bullsh!t targets that were so ambiguous that they were basically impossible to meet. They could pick one thing and use it against that target; just one little thing over the course of a year, and you've not met that target! It's all just armory to use against you, in case they feel like firing you. The only important targets are the ones you set yourself. I found it weird that other people didn't have this negative view of targets, and thought that they were actually there to help them improve. Ha! :-j
There's a certain sweet spot of stupid, but not too stupid. If you know you're being exploited you will lose motivation and not work to the best of your ability, and if you're stupid, well, you're just stupid.
In the last yearly review I had at this godawful place, they used a piece of work that I was particularly proud of against me. Because the customer complained about things that weren't my fault, things caused by lacklustre management, sorting out the mess fell on me like it usually did. I was really pleased with how I handled it, but then this piece of work was used against me in the yearly review! It's not helped by the fact that management are (usually) stupid and have no visibility of what's *actually* going on! Just assumptions from the small bits of iceberg that they've seen poking out from the sea of drudgery.
Still, it's all a learning curve; that's one positive that's come out of it; faced with the same situation again, I should be able to handle it better.
Post edited by chriswyatt on
My only Speccy game (so far): a simple snake clone
I've really enjoyed reading all your open and frank posts folks. Thanks for sharing. Now mine, another perspective.
I spent most of my adult life striving to be where I am. As a teenager I battled quite severe epilepsy and quite a bit of bullying. I failed school and left to do hum drum jobs with miserable **** who only served to afirm my lack of self confidence and respect. I'd gotten used to the idea I was just an idiot and thats how my life was going to be. One day I packed it all in and was like '**** it!, I'm at least going to try'. I never looked back, did very well in college, and at uni gained a 1st. I was floating on air. Those who have been on WOS long enough will remember my postings as an undergraduate in the mid 00s. My ability won me a scholarship and I got my PhD.
The PhD led to a few good job with a mix of academic and professional software developer duties. I moved to the USA to work for a university and am no on the tenure track. Basically, teach, keep your head down, cause no trouble, be liked by the students and put out research papers a few times a year and I'll be an assistant professor. Yes, me the fuckwitt.
After all this striving and success I am now surrounded by intelligent folkes, many way more so than me. The workload is crushing, because its not just teaching and research. There is so much extra b()llocks on top that means you can't work to the best of your abilities because there is no time or you are always tired.
Because I'm always tired and surrounded by many folkes who I consider smarter than me, I feel like an imposter. Deep down I still believe I'm that useless fuckwitt. I do sometimes wonder if the secret of my success is hard work rather than talent. I've got a lovely family but work-wise I'm tired and depressed.
The good thing about my job is that largely how I do it is totally up to me and that's a good thing. The summers are quite nice too as the workload drops off significantly, though its not a holiday.
I'm a good coder (I think) and had considered going in to industry instead, I'd earn more, but I guess I'll probably wind up tired and depressed there too (I'm too conscientious) . I've worked with people of a bigger salary that know less than I do and always thought well if they can do it with their skills, so can I.
We spend all our young lives striving, then when we get there (where we were striving for), all we see is 30 more years of work.
Perhaps that defines mid life crisis perfectly, we strive to get there, then when we do, we realise it is not all that, then we don't know where to aim for next, knowing in the back of our minds that when we get there it will not live up to expectations. I bet even Heaven is shite !
Every time I read that the oldest person in the world has died, I have to do a quick check to see it isn't ME..........
I am leaving my current company next Friday after a paltry 29 years service. Starting another job similar role but different industry.
What is strange, is that WOS used to be banned at work via websense [category:- Games], now I'm leaving it is accessible. So this will be probably my first and last post from work,
I suppose that's where I've got to. I'm not interested in climbing any further up the ladder where I'm currently working. Why should I add even more stress to my life the older I get? My goal is to retire as soon as possible, and enjoy my twilight years, but, I'm 43 and we're constantly being told that we're going to have to work until we're 70!!
I'm thinking of doing something rewarding once my debts are payed off in the next 3 years (RSPCA, Charity work etc tec). Something that benefits the needy rather than flogging monitoring software to huge corporations that have obscene amounts of money to spare.
When you reach retirement age, probably 80 by the time you are 70, there won't be any money left to pay pensions anyway, they will have to use the method used in the film Logans Run !
Every time I read that the oldest person in the world has died, I have to do a quick check to see it isn't ME..........
I suppose that's where I've got to. I'm not interested in climbing any further up the ladder where I'm currently working. Why should I add even more stress to my life the older I get?
Same here. Not that there's any ladder left to climb. Someone at work asked me if I wanted to be a "fire marshal" yesterday. Bugger that, I don't want my name on some bit of paper up on the wall so I can be blamed when something goes wrong (although if there's a fire nobody will be able to read the bit of paper anyway)
The truth is, there is no ladder, it is a metaphor to motivate people to stay with a company, also it infers that you will be able to look down on others, whilst still looking up to others. We know our real worth, we know where we are in our respective careers and also where we think we should be, usually the two are different, we all think we should be earning more !
Every time I read that the oldest person in the world has died, I have to do a quick check to see it isn't ME..........
Scotty, you are correct in some sense, you could end up just working, coding, feeling tired etc. However the good job are out there somewhere, I know I've been there. Twice I've worked for a team, where the work was fun, rewarding and the people brilliant and fun to work with. Its just a matter of finding them.
Comments
Can't remember a single thing I did when I was younger, decided I didn't want an actual career as it were or at least a real one, never could decide when I was younger.
Chancer I suppose...The job I work now isn't exactly where I envisioned myself 20 years ago that's for sure, but it does what it says in the job description.
Funny thing is people think I'm a functional mongoloid, but I sometimes do feel like my brain is wasted on my job, and like I could've done something more constructive with my life. Then the lazy part of me kicks in and says to myself, don't let then know you're smarter than them or they'll hate you, either that or they'll expect you to do better.
Pretend you're crap, then people won't expect you to be good, I've noticed useless stupid people get a lot of perks in regular jobs...Don't be brilliant, and be a target, feign averageness and survive with minimal effort, and pay rises :))
I know what you mean. I class myself as a reasonably good coder, but I work with a bunch of old uni bods (very clever bunch) and everyone seems to think I'm cleverer than I feel (without putting myself down). I write code and every now and then I learn some new things. I'm happy with that. But work seems to think I can be some great multi intelligent, emotional speaker, writer of documents and make it to top bod. But I not, I'm crap at that stuff because I'm just not interested.
In the words of the MCP "Somebody pushes me, I push back..."
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
In my previous full time job I was absolutely miserable and I ended up getting fired (being anxious and depressed all the time wouldn't have helped). I was a pretty competent coder and felt I did high quality work; however my line manager just didn't like me, and I didn't like him, and I think he had probably wanted to get rid of me for a long time, lol.
Well, I can't say too much, because stupidly I use my real name on the internet! I'm still trying to think of a good internet alias after all these years.
I was unemployed for almost a year last year, and fell on to pretty desperate times, and really struggled with the job market. I was so depressed I just couldn't come across well in interviews. Because I was fed up of IT at this point I did consider other stuff. For a while I thought it would be great to just work in a bar, and improve the social aspect of my life and (hopefully) get my head together. I would still like to do bar work (well, a nice friendly pub), but it would be difficult to get, due to my CV not really having anything to do with bar work!
I briefly did some work as a video game developer, and it's a field I wouldn't mind getting back into again, but employers are just so demanding. I would struggle to get back in to that industry I think. Interviewers would ask why I 'decided' to stop doing video game development, and 'decided' to work in digital TV, and 'decided' to move onto web development, because of course I'm in complete control of my life and if I decide something, I get it, right? Gah! Morons!
And don't get me started on agents: "I have this great job for you in London. You would love London! So many more opportunites and ... blah blah blah" -- What? You don't even know me? I'd absolutely ferreting HATE working in London! For me, it would be a living nightmare and I'd probably throw myself off a bridge!
The games company I worked for wasn't particularly prestigious -- a tiny little company making unpopular Facebook games, but I learnt a lot about programming and enjoyed the challenges. I pretty much blagged my way into that job!
I tried the game industry back in the 90s (Remember Intelligent Games?) thinking it would be like the 80s. Gah! The best place to burn out is a games company. No good if you have a family.
Glad that others think the same about those bloody agents like me :)
I hope you're in a better place now Chris. You should try our open office. Cos its mainly developers its one of the quietest floors in the building most of the time. Just the odd conversation and laughter every now and then but it doesn't bustle. Maybe we could call you 'Singleton' since you don't like busy offices ;)
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
I get the total bored of this IT stuff now.
More because we are pushed away from doing stuff (I'd rather be fixing jobs/code etc) to being managers. Managing what exactly?
But thinking of quitting scares me stupid and gives me the willies.
How do I cope?
No income for bills, etc.
What about pensions and stuff.
Anything to be steady/happy - but life and families need feeding.
Well done on being brave.
In my last job, you could only be promoted to being a manager. Either you were code monkey or manager, with seemingly nothing inbetween. Near the end of my last job, I sort of ended up doing micro-managing, but it really was not the career path I had in mind. At one point I was spending my whole time estimating, going to boring meetings, verification and validation, Excel spreadsheets etc. etc..
Basically, I'd never imagined myself managing, and it really wasn't what I was suitable for. The problem that plagued my last company was that the management/sales types were all promoting each other and themselves, but all the code monkeys were never promoted, and if they were, it was to a management position, that, chances are, they probably didn't want. There was a very unhealthy culture at the company, and I wasn't the only one who constantly moaned about it.
It was refreshing going to different companies after this, where the developers were more valued and more on equal terms with the management; not just being bossed around, with this weird weird, sort of school classroom bureaucracy.
Things started getting very weird in my last company with the change of management. When I started, there was more banter, and you could swear, and you could make rude jokes. Then over the years it was honestly like being back at school, and it seemed like everyone was just being conditioned by the new controlling management style. I'd crack a joke to try and cheer people up, because that's my style, and then I'm being told off for apparently being 'unprofessional'. If anything I maybe helped wake people up, who were probably close to falling asleep in the boring meetings :).
From having a laugh with the team.
Now all communication is electronic. Everyone seems to be sucked into a world in front of the machine.
Communication all electronic! No face to face fun.
No one wants to be heard speaking too loudly - it might be used against you in a review etc!
All gone weird - like you say.
I have had grown men crying floods of tears when I left, I am that GOOD !
There's a certain sweet spot of stupid, but not too stupid. If you know you're being exploited you will lose motivation and not work to the best of your ability, and if you're stupid, well, you're just stupid.
In the last yearly review I had at this godawful place, they used a piece of work that I was particularly proud of against me. Because the customer complained about things that weren't my fault, things caused by lacklustre management, sorting out the mess fell on me like it usually did. I was really pleased with how I handled it, but then this piece of work was used against me in the yearly review! It's not helped by the fact that management are (usually) stupid and have no visibility of what's *actually* going on! Just assumptions from the small bits of iceberg that they've seen poking out from the sea of drudgery.
Still, it's all a learning curve; that's one positive that's come out of it; faced with the same situation again, I should be able to handle it better.
If we are brave enough...................
Others have no choice !
I spent most of my adult life striving to be where I am. As a teenager I battled quite severe epilepsy and quite a bit of bullying. I failed school and left to do hum drum jobs with miserable **** who only served to afirm my lack of self confidence and respect. I'd gotten used to the idea I was just an idiot and thats how my life was going to be. One day I packed it all in and was like '**** it!, I'm at least going to try'. I never looked back, did very well in college, and at uni gained a 1st. I was floating on air. Those who have been on WOS long enough will remember my postings as an undergraduate in the mid 00s. My ability won me a scholarship and I got my PhD.
The PhD led to a few good job with a mix of academic and professional software developer duties. I moved to the USA to work for a university and am no on the tenure track. Basically, teach, keep your head down, cause no trouble, be liked by the students and put out research papers a few times a year and I'll be an assistant professor. Yes, me the fuckwitt.
After all this striving and success I am now surrounded by intelligent folkes, many way more so than me. The workload is crushing, because its not just teaching and research. There is so much extra b()llocks on top that means you can't work to the best of your abilities because there is no time or you are always tired.
Because I'm always tired and surrounded by many folkes who I consider smarter than me, I feel like an imposter. Deep down I still believe I'm that useless fuckwitt. I do sometimes wonder if the secret of my success is hard work rather than talent. I've got a lovely family but work-wise I'm tired and depressed.
The good thing about my job is that largely how I do it is totally up to me and that's a good thing. The summers are quite nice too as the workload drops off significantly, though its not a holiday.
I'm a good coder (I think) and had considered going in to industry instead, I'd earn more, but I guess I'll probably wind up tired and depressed there too (I'm too conscientious) . I've worked with people of a bigger salary that know less than I do and always thought well if they can do it with their skills, so can I.
We spend all our young lives striving, then when we get there (where we were striving for), all we see is 30 more years of work.
What is strange, is that WOS used to be banned at work via websense [category:- Games], now I'm leaving it is accessible. So this will be probably my first and last post from work,
I'm thinking of doing something rewarding once my debts are payed off in the next 3 years (RSPCA, Charity work etc tec). Something that benefits the needy rather than flogging monitoring software to huge corporations that have obscene amounts of money to spare.
Same here. Not that there's any ladder left to climb. Someone at work asked me if I wanted to be a "fire marshal" yesterday. Bugger that, I don't want my name on some bit of paper up on the wall so I can be blamed when something goes wrong (although if there's a fire nobody will be able to read the bit of paper anyway)
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk