Database model ZXDB

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  • Before I do it, could you all please take a look at his spreadsheet to help validate it, and report here if you notice any incorrect or missing information?

    No replies?!!

    Either Hikoki's list is flawless, or nobody cares anymore...

    I checked my games, and was positively surprised about the amount of data collected.
    http://iki.fi/sol | http://iki.fi/sol/speccy/ | https://github.com/jarikomppa/speccy
    http://goo.gl/q2j0NZ - make ZX Spectrum choose your own adventure games, no programming needed (release 3)
  • Thanks everybody for the feedback!

    Sol_HSA wrote: »
    I checked my games, and was positively surprised about the amount of data collected.

    Yes, Hikoki has done a great job!

    Ralf wrote: »
    It misses "COUNTRY" column - country where it was created.

    Instead of storing country where program was created, WoS always stored individual countries where each developer and publisher is located. I'm following the same convention. It makes more sense, especially nowadays when parts of development are commonly provided by people working from different countries.

    Whenever a game refers to a developer or publisher not already in ZXDB, I will try to identify his/her country properly.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • RMartins wrote: »
    I would just like to point out that "RELEASE_PRICE" column, should NOT have "freeware" in there.
    All software is copywrited by default (law definition).

    "Freeware", mixes the idea of no cost, hence free to use, with copywrite rules.
    We should avoid entering the messy copywrite area.

    Maybe it's better to name them "No cost", "None", "Free download" or just "Free".

    "Freeware" means "proprietary (copyrighted) software that is available for use at no monetary cost". Isn't it exactly what we want to indicate?

    Notice I'm just following WoS convention here. The WoS archive contains thousands of games marked as "Freeware", I simply imported this information into ZXDB without modifying it.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Morkin wrote: »
    We have trust in Hikoki..! ;;)

    Don't trust me too much lol. I've added a couple missing games from Steve Broad and corrected his name which is different on infoseek. Also i've yet to fix: Missing translators in Alessandro Grussu's games, the first game for the Next by Jonathan Cauldwell.

    I'm not sure about authors on Kas29’s games.

    There are few comments about AY and beeper music.

    There are no physical releases nor mods.

    Maybe there are games with wrong genre
  • Instead of storing country where program was created, WoS always stored individual countries where each developer and publisher is located.

    Yes, it makes sense, we are an international pack :)
    So if I understand correctly each author and each publisher has his own country.

    And it actually doesn't make sense in some cases searching for example for "Spanish games" because it's not precise. You can only search for games published in Spain, originally published in Spain or having Spanish author, right?

    And there are games where authors and publisher are from different country, see Phantom Club for example:
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0003681

    You will have to remember about programs where author and publisher is unknown but the country is known - game is in Polish so we can safely assume that it was made in Poland. In such cases by linking in database to author or publisher you'll get a NULL country so there has to be alternative way of determining the country.

  • Ralf wrote: »
    Instead of storing country where program was created, WoS always stored individual countries where each developer and publisher is located.

    Yes, it makes sense, we are an international pack :)
    So if I understand correctly each author and each publisher has his own country.

    And it actually doesn't make sense in some cases searching for example for "Spanish games" because it's not precise. You can only search for games published in Spain, originally published in Spain or having Spanish author, right?

    And there are games where authors and publisher are from different country, see Phantom Club for example:
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0003681

    You will have to remember about programs where author and publisher is unknown but the country is known - game is in Polish so we can safely assume that it was made in Poland. In such cases by linking in database to author or publisher you'll get a NULL country so there has to be alternative way of determining the country.

    Right.

    You would know a program is from Poland because idiom is Polish, or because you got information about game released in Poland from inlay, advert, developer or publisher article, magazine reference, etc. Except for idiom, all other sources of information would tell you either developer or publisher anyway. There's probably not a single entry in WoS or ZXDB where we know information about country without knowing additional information related to it.


    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • ...Any info on potential wos.meullie magazine scan links..? [-O<

    Am impressed with all the work on this so far, nice one chaps..! ^:)^
  • Morkin wrote: »
    ...Any info on potential wos.meullie magazine scan links..? [-O<

    You will have to ask Gerard, he's cataloguing the magazine issues...

    Morkin wrote: »
    Am impressed with all the work on this so far, nice one chaps..! ^:)^

    Thanks! :)
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • UPDATED GAMES LIST!

    I just uploaded here a new version of ZXDB that now contains Hikoki's list of recent games. There are still a few details to finish, for instance I have imported the full list of developers for each game, but not their roles yet ... I will try to finish the remaining details next week.

    Just remember ZXDB only contains information about the games, not the game themselves. Perhaps next step could be organize an FTP site somewhere, so we can start adding screenshots and game files to complement ZXDB information?

    Once more, I would like to thank everyone that has been contributing to this effort: Gerard, Peter, Hikoki, and lots of other people. Thank you!!!
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Would the lots of other people include me & Martijn? Just in case your comments are deliberately worded to be posted on twitter...
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  • Would the lots of other people include me & Martijn?

    Yes, certainly! For the record, Lee gave me the original WoS archive material that made ZXDB possible, and helped me clarify the meaning of some obscure archive details. And the few times nobody else had the answer to the most difficult questions, Martijn took the time to answer them himself.

    I only mentioned Gerard, Peter and Hikoki in my last post because they have dedicated considerably more time on helping ZXDB to happen. However many other people helped also, including Lee and Martijn.

    Sorry for not listing everybody else here, but I have hundreds of emails and posts about this subject, it would take me too long to track down everyone's contributions over several months.

    Just in case your comments are deliberately worded to be posted on twitter...

    I don't care about Twitter. It's extremely childish when people quote other people, especially out of context, to fuel "discussions" where everybody want only their side of the argument to be heard.

    Now feel free to tweet this...
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • edited December 2016
    Really nice progress!

    And the most important question. Will be all ID numbers of new added games in the ZXDB identical with ID numbers of these games which will be added into the new version of WoS in the future?
    Post edited by Pavero on
  • I understand WoS content will be imported from ZXDB, therefore the answer should be "yes".

    Lee, is this correct?
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • I understand WoS content will be imported from ZXDB, therefore the answer should be "yes".

    Lee, is this correct?

    No - it's not compatible and we are too far down the line to change things.

    However, we will do our utmost to match the new Id's. I'm assuming the additions are listed separately somewhere?

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  • I don't care about Twitter. It's extremely childish when people quote other people, especially out of context, to fuel "discussions" where everybody want only their side of the argument to be heard.

    Now feel free to tweet this...

    Unfortunately, you've unwittingly become their latest weapon, so I wanted to make it clear on the forums - where it matters - that you are in no way involved with the trolls.

    On the bright side, the more time Paul Andrews and Darren Melbourne spend attacking WoS and trying to cause trouble that doesn't exist, the less time they have to rip off devs and the community. And some of the copyright holders they have contacted to try to shut us down has lead to some very interesting conversations :)
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  • No - it's not compatible and we are too far down the line to change things.

    I thought you didn't import information about programs yet. If so, why not import it from ZXDB instead of WoS? I have fixed A LOT of inconsistencies existing in the original WoS archive, and there's not a single bit of information from WoS that's not available in ZXDB also (although sometimes in a most organized way). If you don't import data from ZXDB, you will get back all these inconsistencies again.

    I have already offered to take a look at your database model and help figure out the best solution for you, that would allow new WoS to benefit from ZXDB improvements with little or no impact on your existing work, and daving you time from data migration. Please consider it.

    However, we will do our utmost to match the new Id's. I'm assuming the additions are listed separately somewhere?

    All recent program releases were added with IDs in the range from 30000 to 40000. Older programs that already existed inside original WoS archive but were "lost" (didn't have an ID) were registered with IDs from 28189 to 29999 (since last ID for programs in WoS archive is 28188). Thus keeping the same IDs should be fairly easy.

    There were also lots of consistency fixes applied to existing IDs but there's no easy way to extract what has changed.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Unfortunately, you've unwittingly become their latest weapon, so I wanted to make it clear on the forums - where it matters - that you are in no way involved with the trolls.

    I will never be involved in trolling and I don't even bother to waste my time worrying about what others say about WoS outside WoS.

    There are many things I disagree about certain aspects of WoS management but I always made clear my objections in this forum. I find it extremely stupid when someone pretends to discuss WoS issues outside WoS itself, particularly using a media that doesn't support discussions.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Correction: last WoS ID for programs is 28187, recovered programs in ZXDB start at 28188.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • There's another ZXDB update here. It now contains most of the remaining details about recently released programs, such as developer roles, list of games included in compilations, etc.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
    Thanked by 2Fred R-Tape
  • The Original Price field change has broken some of the scripts, so I have removed the field for now.

    Sorry I forgot to answer this...

    "Original Price" is now the "Release Price" of the original game release.

    All releases of a game (including prices) are stored in table RELEASES. The original release is the row with RELEASE_SEQ = 0.

    Therefore if you have a query like this:
    SELECT * FROM entries e WHERE ...
    


    then you just need to change it like this:
    SELECT * FROM entries e INNER JOIN releases r0 ON r0.entry_id = e.id AND r0.release_seq = 0 WHERE ...
    


    As I offered before, if you send me your current queries I can take a look at how to improve them...
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Just in case your comments are deliberately worded to be posted on twitter...

    I don't care about Twitter. It's extremely childish when people quote other people, especially out of context, to fuel "discussions" where everybody want only their side of the argument to be heard.

    Now feel free to tweet this...

    Yeah, but doesn't it give you a warm glow that those who hate WoS and all it stands for still feel compelled to come here every day and slime around in the shadows looking for something they can use to further their shabby cause ? L-)
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  • Zoffy wrote: »
    Yeah, but doesn't it give you a warm glow that those who hate WoS and all it stands for still feel compelled to come here every day and slime around in the shadows looking for something they can use to further their shabby cause ? L-)

    So basically, we are providing a community service?

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  • So basically, we are providing a community service?

    I suppose it keeps them off the streets

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  • Zoffy wrote: »
    Just in case your comments are deliberately worded to be posted on twitter...

    I don't care about Twitter. It's extremely childish when people quote other people, especially out of context, to fuel "discussions" where everybody want only their side of the argument to be heard.

    Now feel free to tweet this...

    Yeah, but doesn't it give you a warm glow that those who hate WoS and all it stands for still feel compelled to come here every day and slime around in the shadows looking for something they can use to further their shabby cause ? L-)

    It doesn't bother me at all. WoS is a public service, it's supposed to be accessed by absolutely everybody. Discriminating who's allowed to access WoS would go against all it stands for.

    If anyone uses WoS content to troll somewhere else, not fueling it is the best approach. Don't feed the trolls! Either they won't find actual issues at WoS to ground their trolling (in which case their unfounded criticism can be safely ignored), or they do (in which case you better focuse on fixing these issues instead of counter-arguing criticism).

    You will always find countless things wrong elsewhere on Internet that you strongly disagree. So what?

    duty_calls.png
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Yeah, but doesn't it give you a warm glow that those who hate WoS

    I suppose nobody hates WOS per se. There are just people who have feuds with Lee, often related to this unlucky Vega project.

    I believe in future we may have several versions of WOS archive on different websites maitained and developed by different people. Previously I thought it would be bad as it breaks the community but actually it may be good. Everybody will be just using the best one for him, with best interface, structure, search engine, most features etc. Competition is good.


  • Honestly I was still hoping for a unified database. If you look at ZXDB model you will see it has support for multiple sites. For instance the PERMISSIONS table indicates which website obtained each distribution permission (in case permissions were granted to specific websites only).
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Honestly I was still hoping for a unified database

    I can fully understand it. But from what I read and understand, Lee has his own grand plan and there is no place in it for ZXDB. I also know of efforts in Russian scene to create a full database of Spectrum programs and I suppose they aren't using ZXDB too.

    So everybody to his own, I guess. The best one will win.
  • People will use whatever they find useful.

    I'm enthusiastic about Einar's ZXDB because its the right approach and has gained some traction:
    - it's being updated
    - there's an active site using it
    - it stores data from many sites

    As for other efforts, let's hope they progress as much as ZXDB.
    We will all benefit from it.
  • Ralf wrote: »
    Honestly I was still hoping for a unified database

    I can fully understand it. But from what I read and understand, Lee has his own grand plan and there is no place in it for ZXDB.

    Although he never gave any reason for this.

    I mean, Lee said he cannot use ZXDB directly because he wants to keep his own database model. OK. Even so, he never provided any explanation for the reason he's refusing to import content from ZXDB. Instead, he said he's planning to import from old WoS archive instead, thus losing over a thousand inconsistency fixes and new additions made (with the help of many people) over the last few months in ZXDB. Why?

    Perhaps he fears it will be harder to import data from ZXDB instead of WoS archive? However I have already offered to import it all for him.

    Perhaps he fears there's any information at all from WoS that would be missed or incorrect if importing from ZXDB? However everything from ZXDB is publicly available and I challenge anyone to point out any missing or incorrect information. (Honestly, if I made any mistakes, I would appreciate someone to point it out so I can fix it.)

    What else could it be?

    Ralf wrote: »
    I also know of efforts in Russian scene to create a full database of Spectrum programs and I suppose they aren't using ZXDB too.

    Could you please give me their contact information or put me in contact with them? Hopefully something could be done to avoid unnecessary duplicated work.

    Right now, ZXDB already recognizes Russian clones (Pentagon, Scorpion, etc), supports foreign idioms (even aliases so it's possible to store both English and Russian titles of each game for instance), distinguishes TRD files, accepts scene demos, etc.

    If there's anything else missing in ZXDB needed to support the Russian scene, I would happily add it. Also I would gladly merge content from other already existing databases, that's not a problem.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Could you please give me their contact information or put me in contact with them? Hopefully something could be done to avoid unnecessary duplicated work.
    There are at least 5 archives on Russian scene:
    http://zxaaa.untergrund.net/view_demos.php - mostly demos, some tools. Maintainer is Aleksei "AAA" Alekseenko. I don't want to tell anything bad about him, but we have really bad relations. He won't support tape versions, he edits original releases, replaces tape with trd, and so on. You can try to contact him anyway, but don't expect anything constructive.
    http://bbb.retroscene.org/ - mostly demos, but with some extras. Branch of zxaaa base, made and maintained by zxaaa previous main developer Vladimir "VBI" Burenko. Has authors claiming, user-side corrections and updating of prods, nice design, active development. Vladimir is also registered on WoS.
    http://trd.speccy.cz/ - oldest zx tr-dos archive, maintained by Shadow Maker (I don't know his real name). Has great amount of best tr-dos crack releases and Russian software, but database seems to be really old and poorly structured. May be I'm wrong and it's refactored already.
    denied repository - won't post its link here, but it aims to contain all denied software of ZX Spectrum. I don't support it 100%, since it also has modern copyrighted releases. Not really sure who is that archive maintained by.
    http://spectrum4ever.org/ - aims on preserving crack tape releases mostly done in eastern Europe and Russia. Not sure about who is that maintained by, but it's a really great effort, since otherwise this cultural layer would be completely lost.
    http://zxart.ee - I'm also working on a software archive, and I'm also aimed on importing and containing as much info as possible, so in closest perspective all of archives would be imported and some even may be synchronized dynamically. Thanks for efforts on ZXDB - I'm working on synchonization with ZXDB lately. I won't import 100% of information, since we have really different base models and I'm not aiming to store hardware information (yet?) for example. However, I'm storing all of the ZXDB used ID numbers, so when I run syncronization again, information is not duplicated, but updated. This allows me to add more and more features into import. At the moment, production (software entries), releases, authors, author aliases, groups (companies), group aliases, publishers, screens, files, countries are synchronized, and I have all original IDs stored, so it would be possible to make backward synchronization as well. When I move all submitted SCR screenshots from old "game" module to a new "prod" module, you will be able to import back all advanced screens from ZX-Art in SCR format, requesting info based on WOS entry id :)
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