Import new WoS data from ZXDB?

13

Comments

  • edited May 2017
    Einar. I am NOT going through 530,000 sql statements to find out what you have done, then try to 2nd guess why.

    There's no need.

    When there's too much stuff to validate, the standard technique for Quality Control is called Acceptance Sampling. In this case, it could be done by choosing randomly a few database entries, and comparing them in ZXDB and old WoS. If every difference you find is an error or omission in old WoS that was correctly fixed in ZXDB, then this won't tell if ZXDB is 100% perfect, but it will tell that ZXDB has better quality than old WoS. Therefore it will show that importing from ZXDB would provide a much better result than importing from old WoS.

    Another option is not importing anything from ZXDB. Just use ZXDB as reference to validate your "list of problems and why" that you have made yourself, when you provide it.

    And given that the database is very small, how are there "thousands" of incorrect records?

    The main database issues in old WoS (fixed in ZXDB) are as follows:

    * About 1,000 entries (programs, books, and hardware devices) were "lost" inside WoS archive. It means WoS contained references about these titles but they didn't have an InfoseekID number or webpage. For instance, try to click on "Blood Dungeon" at this link.

    * About 1,300 labels (companies, publishers, developers, etc) were also missing, i.e the WoS archive contained references to them but they were not indexed.

    * Another 200 labels had some kind of error, such as the misspelling examples I already mentioned.

    * Exactly 6,756 download files were "lost", i.e stored inside WoS archive but not associated with any entry (program, book or hardware device).

    * More than 2,000 label files were "lost", i.e stored inside WoS archive but not associated with any company, publisher, developer, etc.

    * More than 40,000 magazine and book references were also "lost". What really happened is, exactly 3,668 references were stored in WoS files, about 140,000 were stored in SPOT/SPEX files, and the WoS site combined information from both sources to display on website pages. However more than 40,000 of these references from SPOT/SPEX were not properly associated with information from WoS, therefore all this data was stored inside WoS but inaccessible.

    You claim that most of these problems you "picked up on import anyway", but you cannot understand how there are thousands of problems...

    Are you saying most of WoS is wrong?

    Of course not.

    The old WoS archive is an outstanding piece of work. It's amazing how much Martijn managed to organize "manually", without the assistance of a modern database.

    Also Infoseek is one of my favorite websites ever! It will be very hard for everybody else to reach the same level of usability and detail that he managed to implement.

    You've only had 22yrs to speak up.

    I did.

    If you look at the "Infoseek Database" section of this forum, you will find many posts and new threads from me reporting issues, corrections and additional content for the old WoS archive since I joined about 10 years ago. Although good luck trying to find anything using current forum searches. :)

    However my previous forum posts just pointed out problems I found individually by accident. After ZXDB started and I got the entire WoS content organized into a modern database, then it was possible to quickly cross-reference all this information in countless ways, thus allowing me to automatically identify thousands of issues that would have been too hard to find otherwise.

    Reading the ZXDB thread, you will notice that importing data from internal WoS files into ZXDB only took me a few days (more precisely from July 12, 2016 to July 16, 2016. This is the easy part. The remaining 10 months of work in ZXDB was spent on fixing issues and adding content. This is the work you are grossly underestimating.


    EDIT: Fixed mispelling.
    Post edited by Einar Saukas on
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Good grief...
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
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  • I can see Spectrumcomputing has a lot of info missing which is either deliberate or being worked on.

    SpectrumComputing certainly doesn't show all the information from ZXDB. If you search for the same game at ZXInfo, you will see many details from ZXDB that doesn't appear at SpectrumComputing and vice-versa. They are both very recent sites, so we cannot expect them to already have all the features from old WoS site, they are under development!

    It's my understanding that the only information deliberately missing are download links. Apparently they both adopted the principle of only distributing programs from authors that authorized them to do it.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Finally! An answer I can work with!
    The main database issues in old WoS (fixed in ZXDB) are as follows:

    * About 1,000 entries (programs, books, and hardware devices) were "lost" inside WoS archive. It means WoS contained references about these titles but they didn't have an InfoseekID number or webpage. For instance, try to click on "Blood Dungeon" at this link.

    Not an issue - the import scripts will check these (see below for why and how) and report lost links as potential issues. We haven't started on these yet.
    * About 1,300 labels (companies, publishers, developers, etc) were also missing, i.e the WoS archive contained references to them but they were not indexed.

    Where it is a DB entry, these are flagged as errors on import. I have the option of changing that to adding them as entries automatically so they are indexed - at the moment I don't because I want to check them first.
    * Another 200 labels had some kind of error, such as the misspelling examples I already mentioned.

    These are the ones that concern me and need help - we have a list of misspellings and they are corrected on import but nowhere near 200
    * Exactly 6,756 download files were "lost", i.e stored inside WoS archive but not associated with any entry (program, book or hardware device).

    Files aren't an issue at all. Files are in some cases moved manually because they need sorting (publishers and people) or moved by script as per filenames and slugs - any leftovers are dealt with manually. We also have checks where files can't be found so they are reported as errors.
    * More than 2,000 label files were "lost", i.e stored inside WoS archive but not associated with any company, publisher, developer, etc.

    Not an issue as these have been sorted manually and the software stores them. There will be leftover files that relate to nothing, but you will notice there are a lot more added that weren't visible before.
    * More than 40,000 magazine and book references were also "lost". What really happened is, exactly 3,668 references were stored in WoS files, about 140,000 were stored in SPOT/SPEX files, and the WoS site combined information from both sources to display on website pages. However more than 40,000 of these references from SPOT/SPEX were not properly associated with information from WoS, therefore all this data was stored inside WoS but inaccessible.

    These will also be sorted by the import. Books and Mags are done from scratch, and the reports will be same as above - if references can't be found they are reported.

    My test signature
  • In total, right now, I see the only issue is 200 misnamed publishers.
    My test signature
  • hikoki wrote: »
    There would be a single user interface and team to update both databases.

    It's possible but not likely to happen that WoS can add to the API for change requests, so a form filled in on another site can also send the same data to WoS - we wouldn't receive any files that way, but basic changes could then be reported to us via other websites. I doubt anyone would want to implement that on their site though.
    My test signature
  • edited May 2017
    Why not? a webform to submit stuff to wos from other sites like trastero.speccy.org or individuals who collect MIAs.

    One easy and cheap way for everyone could be just fill a form field with a simple link to a dropbox folder. It is also possible to send an email from wos to any webform sender, such email would contain a link to a googleDrive folder so the sender can drag and drop files later, corresponding to the title he sent from the form.

    BTW, We still expect that you two guys talk in private to share your scripts and not waste the work done
    Post edited by hikoki on
  • We can't share scripts because the database is different so the scripts will be different. I think you need to distinguish between what goes into building a website as you seem to be confusing everything.
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  • We would recommend that you two talk your tech stuff in private and find a frenchly solution with webcam.
    See this kind of solution to send files after sending a form (compatible with wos api):
    http://techcogitation.blogspot.com.es/2015/07/folders-as-workaround-for-google-form.html
  • I don't know if you are trolling or not, but I really have to stop clicking links you send. Where does WoS use google forms?
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  • edited May 2017
    You talked about a form sending change requests and that files wouldn't be sent this way. The link shows just an example about webforms, the point is that an user sends a form with info about a title and wos would send an automatic response by email so he can sends files via a google drive link associated with the info he sent before.
    Post edited by hikoki on
  • edited May 2017
    Finally! An answer I can work with!

    All these numbers were taken from the summaries I posted periodically in the ZXDB thread. More specifically from September 2016, December 2016, and February 2017.

    Is this the "secret" about ZXDB that you claimed I was refusing to reveal? If so, I was very clever to hide it in the ZXDB thread, where you would never find it! :)

    Not an issue - the import scripts will check these (see below for why and how) and report lost links as potential issues. We haven't started on these yet.

    You needed numbers because you couldn't understand there are thousands of errors in old WoS archive. I gave you the numbers I have, as automatically detected and reported from running my WoS and SPOT/SPEX importers. Now you are looking at these numbers and realizing you could detect them automatically using your importers too... Yes, of course you can!

    However you are still missing the point. You are just looking at the EASY part of the job (basically the task I finished in 4 days, from July 12, 2016 to July 16, 2016) and ignoring everything else (the remaining 10 months). This is what you are missing:

    1.) All problems in this list can be detected automatically, but many of them cannot be solved easily. For instance, missing labels are trivial to detect, validate and add. However thousands of download files are very hard, because it takes a long time to check and classify them. About 40,000 "lost" magazine and book references is even harder, since you will need to find out yourself the corresponding InfoseekID for each of them... if this information was already available about them, they wouldn't be lost!

    2.) Although many problems can be detected by import scripts, many more problems are not so easy to find. They require a lot more effort on cross-referencing data to be identified and solved. Those are the numbers I don't have, because this work is spread over 530,000 lines of SQL queries (approx. 120Mb of SQL text) as I mentioned already.

    I repeat, you only have in mind redoing about 4 days of work from ZXDB, not the remaining 10 months. Even if you just consider problems your importers can easily identify, it would take you a long time to fix them yourself. Your choices are basically:

    * Spend a few extra months yourself redoing ZXDB work. This would be an enormous waste of time.

    * Just leave all these problems in new WoS and hope people will slowly detect and fix them manually in the next few years. However people may not be very enthusiastic about dedicating their time to help redo work that has already been done by others but discarded without a very good reason...

    * Import from ZXDB tables into new WoS, or adapt ZXDB queries to run them on new WoS, or copy corrected ZXDB content directly into new WoS afterwards.

    Anyway this discussion is once again going anywhere. My offer still stands: I want new WoS site to be as good as possible, therefore I'm willing to export entire ZXDB content for you into whatever format you need for WoS. Just let me know.

    One last request: Lee, can you please at least ensure that new WoS will adopt the same InfoseekIDs for all new entries in ZXDB that didn't exist in old WoS? Using different IDs would benefit nobody, just screw up things for everybody for no reason... Please?
    Post edited by Einar Saukas on
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • I think I may have said this before, so I will type it in capitals just to make sure. FILES ARE NOT A PROBLEM. MISSING FILES ARE LISTED ON IMPORT AND LEFT OVER FILES AFTER IMPORT ARE ALSO LISTED. THERE ARE NO "LOST" LINKS.

    I doubt infoseek will continue the numbering of ZXDB because the table is set to auto-increment ID's so even entering new titles in the same order will give different Id's.

    And again, you have said many problems are spread across 530,000 lines of SQL. I am not going through them to work out what you have done. So, I will ask again - aside from the 200 label changes you've made (which I can use a list of to check and amend WoS accordingly), files that aren't needed, magazines that aren't needed, books that aren't needed, what have you changed?
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  • So, I will ask again - aside from the 200 label changes you've made (which I can use a list of to check and amend WoS accordingly), files that aren't needed, magazines that aren't needed, books that aren't needed, what have you changed?

    Lee, can you please tell me in detail (to the nearest mm) how many metres you have walked in the last 10 months please?
    No, don't know?
    Why not?
    I need this so I can see if your walking will fit in my database...
    But if you can't tell me, how can I know what you have said is true???

    @Einar please put your effort into continuing ZXDB. Don't worry about Lee and all the work he wants to do all by himself. He must be one of those workaholics. Something I don't know much about (I love delegating).

    Happy days :-)

    Mark
  • Mark - the problem is, I only see 200 changes I need to make. Magazines and Books work are already done by Gerard, the scripts auto find lost links, these indexed files can't be used anyway because of how WoS is constructed. All I want to know is which 200 publishers need editing, and what these thousands of changes I am supposed to find out from hundreds of thousands of sql files are.

    It's a very basic task to document changes you make to data. And since the two databases aren't compatible, it's essential to know what has been changed. Nobody has verified these changes.
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  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    Don't worry about Lee and all the work he wants to do all by himself. He must be one of those workaholics. Something I don't know much about (I love delegating).

    Hence the rather large team we have? People that have volunteered to help rather than criticise seemingly without knowing why?
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  • All I am trying to say is, if you can find a way to use ZXDB, and compare it's current data with the new WoS data, you should be able to use this information to correct and improve the new WoS database where Einar has found problems with the old WoS database.

    Otherwise it is a very strong possibility that EITHER and/or BOTH ZXDB AND the new WoS database will contain errors and omissions.

    Sure, your system may well pick up lots of the problems that Einar has identified and sorted in ZXDB. But there are bound to be problems that one of you (or your system) misses.

    A program to compare the two sets of data, and identity differences, then record (save) in a human readable text file. How hard can it be?

    If you want to review the differences, that's fine. You may or may not be happy with the changes that Einar has made. Alternatively, you could ask the community.

    A new WoS database should be aiming at being as correct as possible. Ignoring work that has already been done does not sound logical to me.

    Mark
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  • I think I may have said this before, so I will type it in capitals just to make sure. FILES ARE NOT A PROBLEM. MISSING FILES ARE LISTED ON IMPORT AND LEFT OVER FILES AFTER IMPORT ARE ALSO LISTED. THERE ARE NO "LOST" LINKS.

    I don't mind repeating my previous answers in capital letters too, if you think it helps. INDEED IT'S VERY EASY TO LIST ALL "LOST" FILES THAT ARE STORED IN WoS ARCHIVE BUT INACCESSIBLE FROM SEARCHES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH ANY ENTRY (PROGRAM, BOOK OR HARDWARE DEVICE). HOWEVER IT'S A LOT OF WORK TO IDENTIFY THE EXACT ENTRY THAT MUST BE ASSOCIATED WITH EACH ONE OF THESE "LOST" FILES.

    Here are a few random examples, out of thousands. How do you expect your algorithm to identify the entry corresponding to each of them without human intervention?

    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-info/i/Imperator.txt
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/company-pics/Microsoft/Microsoft-ad.jpg
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/interface2-roms/adverts/ZXRomCartridgeCatalogue1.jpg
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/music/bonustracks/automata/16-BitOfACult.mp3.zip
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-extras/WallyFamilyPortrait.jpg
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/hardware-adverts/RingoR470.jpg
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-inlays/Rereleases/t/TomJerry(ErbeSoftwareS.A.).jpg
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-adverts/p/Psyclapse+Bandersnatch_4.jpg
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/technical-docs/QL_ServiceManual.pdf
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-extras/MarkRJones/IronSword_(unused)/ANIM2.png

    I doubt infoseek will continue the numbering of ZXDB because the table is set to auto-increment ID's so even entering new titles in the same order will give different Id's.

    There's a very simple solution: Use AUTO_INCREMENT = 32000. That's it.

    Whenever you enter a program title in new WoS that already exists in ZXDB, you just need to specify the same InfoseekID from ZXDB (below 32000) in your INSERT, and you will get the same InfoseekID in WoS.

    Whenever you enter a program title in new WoS that doesn't exist in ZXDB yet, you don't specify any InfoseekID in your INSERT, and you will automatically get a new consecutive InfoseekID in WoS (above 32000) that won't conflict with ZXDB.

    You are using SQL Server, right? Here's an easy tutorial that shows how to make this work:

    http://www.sqlteam.com/article/how-to-insert-values-into-an-identity-column-in-sql-server

    And again, you have said many problems are spread across 530,000 lines of SQL. I am not going through them to work out what you have done. So, I will ask again - aside from the 200 label changes you've made (which I can use a list of to check and amend WoS accordingly), files that aren't needed, magazines that aren't needed, books that aren't needed, what have you changed?

    And again, I have changed lots of stuff.

    If you want a short overview explaining the changes I made, then re-read my reply at the beginning of this thread. If you want a detailed list of every individual change I made, then there are 530,000 lines of SQL available for download. Each one of these lines describes changes in one or more entries. For anyone familiar with SQL, looking at the actual SQL provides more detail than reading a text description trying to explain each SQL.

    Do you really believe every detail from over 10 months of work and 530,000 lines of SQL can be summarized in a short document that you can easily review without too much work? Again, it's like demanding to know every little detail about how Linux works and why, but refusing to look at the Linux source code because it has too many lines of code...

    Regarding your comment about files, magazines and books that "aren't needed", you are mistaken. All this information and material was collected over a period of many years, thanks to the hard work of Martijn and several contributors. You shouldn't discard any content stored in WoS just because it's too hard for you to figure out where it fits.

    In ZXDB, every information from old WoS was preserved and properly organized. Absolutely nothing was discarded or ignored.
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • Mark - the problem is, I only see 200 changes I need to make.

    I see 530,000 changes you need to make...

    Magazines and Books work are already done by Gerard,

    Gerard was working on cataloguing magazine issues, not cataloguing "lost" magazine references.

    His work will provide something similar to table "magazines" in ZXDB (that SpectrumComputing currently uses to auto-generate magazine links). This is obviously an important step to help organize this information, but you will still have a lot of work to do afterwards.

    the scripts auto find lost links,

    Exactly. The scripts will only find them. However they won't fix them automatically, because fixing will require manual intervention to find out the entry corresponding to each one.

    these indexed files can't be used anyway because of how WoS is constructed.

    You are mistaken.

    Almost every "lost" file could easily fit into WoS structure, after you identify the corresponding entry for each case.

    Do you need a couple examples? Let's consider some files I already mentioned:

    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-info/i/Imperator.txt
    This is the instructions file for one of the games called "Imperator", you just need to manually find which one. I suppose game instructions can still be used in new WoS, right?

    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/company-pics/Microsoft/Microsoft-ad.jpg
    This is an advert from a publisher. You just need to manually check if it's from the same "Microsoft Inc." that already existed in old WoS, or if it's a different company with a similar name. I suppose company adverts can still be used in new WoS, right?

    And so on...

    All I want to know is which 200 publishers need editing,

    First you could not understand how there could be thousands of issues. Thus I spent my time writing a proper explanation and looking for the numbers I previously posted in the ZXDB thread, to help you understand what you have to do.

    Then you could not understand the difference between finding "lost" files automatically and fixing them manually. Thus I spent my time writing a proper explanation and looking for a few examples of "lost" files, to help you understand what you have to do.

    Now you cannot understand how to locate 200 labels that need fixing. You expect me to spend my time to report this information and explain what you have to do.

    Also you already mentioned you cannot understand there's need to fix anything else. Thus I would need to spend my time to recheck and explain each other fix I have made in the last 10 months.

    This is getting ridiculous! It's going to take me a lot more time to help you redo all my work, then it took me to do the work myself originally.

    My offer still stands. I can easily export ZXDB content into whatever format you want for new WoS. But I won't spend any more time helping you not use ZXDB.

    and what these thousands of changes I am supposed to find out from hundreds of thousands of sql files are.

    Either you want to personally validate every individual change, or you don't. There are hundreds of thousands of changes. There's no way to validate every individual change without looking at every individual change!

    Alternatively you can assess ZXDB quality by sampling, as I suggested already. If every difference you see between ZXDB and old WoS indicates that ZXDB data is better organized or more accurate, the logical conclusion will be that ZXDB is a better choice to import into new WoS.

    It's a very basic task to document changes you make to data.

    Good thing I documented every individual change I made in a file called "ZXDB_increments.zip", that has been available since ZXDB started.

    What about you? Where did you document the changes you made? If you expect others to validate your changes, you need to release this document very soon. Otherwise people won't have time to validate it, thus new WoS could go live with many errors. When are you going to release your document?

    And since the two databases aren't compatible, it's essential to know what has been changed.

    Compatibility is not a problem. My offer still stands: let me know your database schema and I will convert everything from ZXDB into your new WoS database for you!

    Nobody has verified these changes.

    You are mistaken.

    I know Peter, Ricardo, Thomas, Hikoki (and perhaps others) are keeping a close eye at ZXDB updates because they frequently send me questions about my latest changes. Also whenever they see something they think could be a mistake, they ask me for double-checking and further clarifications. Moreover the entire ZXDB project is "open", anybody can download everything and run their own queries for additional validations.

    You have already made changes that only exist in your own PC (as you revealed in this thread) thus nobody ever had a chance to verify them.

    Which of these two approaches have a higher chance of undetected problems?
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    Don't worry about Lee and all the work he wants to do all by himself. He must be one of those workaholics. Something I don't know much about (I love delegating).

    Hence the rather large team we have? People that have volunteered to help rather than criticise seemingly without knowing why?

    This is your lucky day! I thereby volunteer to help you on converting, fixing and organizing the entire content of old WoS archive. Moreover I also volunteer to import all this content for you, into whatever format or database schema you choose.

    Normally all this extra work would take you several more months. Luckily I have already done almost all the work myself, so it should take me just a couple days to export everything into whatever format you need!

    My volunteer offer will never expire. I won't keep insisting, but if you ever change your mind about accepting my help, please let me know!
    Creator of ZXDB, BIFROST/NIRVANA, ZX7/RCS, etc. I don't frequent this forum anymore, please look for me elsewhere.
  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    Don't worry about Lee and all the work he wants to do all by himself. He must be one of those workaholics. Something I don't know much about (I love delegating).

    Hence the rather large team we have? People that have volunteered to help rather than criticise seemingly without knowing why?

    This is your lucky day! I thereby volunteer to help you on converting, fixing and organizing the entire content of old WoS archive. Moreover I also volunteer to import all this content for you, into whatever format or database schema you choose.

    Normally all this extra work would take you several more months. Luckily I have already done almost all the work myself, so it should take me just a couple days to export everything into whatever format you need!

    My volunteer offer will never expire. I won't keep insisting, but if you ever change your mind about accepting my help, please let me know!

    Have you considered joining the new Spectrum Next community (pretty active forum now) and offering to add the ZXDB stuff onto there?
  • Einar, I can only speak for myself, but I think you and everyone else involved should be applauded for both creating ZXDB, and you personally for articulating your position beautifully. I think there's more than a little "not invented here" in play here, and given that ZXDB sites are up, running, and far more usable than the current WoS, perhaps a little jealously too?
  • You guys need a good MFT. Do you like pornos? Can't you just sit on it together for a little bit?
    image.jpg
  • Pegaz wrote: »
    Just tried ZXDB at http://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/ and I like it.
    The archive contains the latest titles, search response is very fast, so far it looks really good.
    Great job, Einar. :)

    Awesome. I am so glad I found this post which pointed me to this site. Finally I can search the new releases. Great!

    I still come to WoS from time to time and try to learn about new things and the progress being made, but with the search not working, it's impossible to find anything unless you stumble upon it by chance. So this was a lucky find for me.

    It's still hard for me to get my had around the fact that someone said there is a team of web dev professionals working on the new site and still after four odd years we still have nothing, infoseek still broken, no new updates, search not working... I heard some rumors about the new site being tested somewhere live but was unable to find anything else about it, again due to broken search. No surprise that to someone who drops in from time to time it seems nothing has changed for the past 3 or so years. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but if there is progress being made, it for sure is not much visible.

    Patrik
  • Einar gave a generous offer and the answer was "no".
    I'm glad he decided not to insist on it anymore.
    Personally, I think he has invested too much effort, to explain his clear motives - contribution to the Spectrum community.
    All these stories about group hugs, mft etc, are pure bs.
    After all, it takes two to tango..

  • Patrik Rak wrote: »
    Pegaz wrote: »
    Just tried ZXDB at http://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/ and I like it.
    The archive contains the latest titles, search response is very fast, so far it looks really good.
    Great job, Einar. :)

    Awesome. I am so glad I found this post which pointed me to this site. Finally I can search the new releases. Great!

    I still come to WoS from time to time and try to learn about new things and the progress being made, but with the search not working, it's impossible to find anything unless you stumble upon it by chance. So this was a lucky find for me.

    It's still hard for me to get my had around the fact that someone said there is a team of web dev professionals working on the new site and still after four odd years we still have nothing, infoseek still broken, no new updates, search not working... I heard some rumors about the new site being tested somewhere live but was unable to find anything else about it, again due to broken search. No surprise that to someone who drops in from time to time it seems nothing has changed for the past 3 or so years. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but if there is progress being made, it for sure is not much visible.

    Patrik
    Search does work now, Lee has made improvements there. Infoseek does also work but now is games only until Gerard finishes doing whatever it is that Gerard does.
    As for the team of web dev professionals, well there isn't a team, just Lee.

    And updates? Well yeah, that is something I'd like to see rectified ASAP.

    The new site is http://live.worldofspectrum.org/


    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • Pegaz wrote: »
    Einar gave a generous offer and the answer was "no".
    I'm glad he decided not to insist on it anymore.
    Personally, I think he has invested too much effort, to explain his clear motives - contribution to the Spectrum community.
    All these stories about group hugs, mft etc, are pure bs.
    After all, it takes two to tango..
    I don't think it is BS. I believe this is utterly personal, there was some kind of missunderstanding between Einar and Lee a few months ago. I seem to recall Lee passed on the wos database files to Einar and then, according to Lee, Einar stopped to talk to him about how to approach the design of the new database.
    Anyways I'm not your mother and this situation has become a bit toxic for me. The best of luck to everyone!
  • I think there's more than a little "not invented here" in play here
    . I believe this is utterly personal,

    Absulutely agree. It's all not about technology, it's about psychology - pride, jealousy, control, power...
    But we had many such talks in the pasts and they leaded to nowhere so I'll stop it here.



  • Maybe you right.
    But, I still dont see what are the Einar's sins?
    What control or power will be taken away from someone hands, with his offer?
  • But, I still dont see what are the Einar's sins?
    What control or power will be taken away from someone hands, with his offer?

    I wasn't talking about Einar ;)
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