Not exactly an idea for a new game...

... or even something new but more of an idea for existing games.

However, I don't know if this has been tried before (or if it is possible to pull off) on the spectrum?

In short, how about <insert game title here> in cardboard 3D glasses (Red and Cyan) fashion? :P

Could this work on the spectrum?

I believe the Sega Master System had some titles.

I wonder if the classic '3D maze games' on the spectrum would provide a more immersive gaming experience played like that..



Comments

  • Nope.

    In standard spectrum you only can choose two colours per 8x8 pixel block. On a 3D game (I'm thinking about Star Wars) you'll need at least 4 colours (cyan, red, cyan+red and black) in close vicinity. Most times, you'll have a line red, other cyan and the background at the same block... so I guess that won't work.
    I was there, too
    An' you know what they said?
    Well, some of it was true!
  • What a shame.

    Most certainly you are right, but ... in my mind I keep remembering what used to be said about the speccy concerning some game conversions - "they said it couldn't be done"! (haha)

    So, who knows if someone is able to do some clever trickery and make the machine achieve a visual effect that could work?
  • That might work on the Sam I guess not sure ? Given the enhanced screen modes.

    The idea does seem to have merit though, perhaps via careful timing (the same way you can make it appear to have several colours within one 8x8 square) might work ?
  • Monochrome games will work, if you’re okay with flickering. You could simply toggle between two screens on 128K machines—one with cyan ink and one with red. The play area would have to be pretty small so that there’s enough time to update all the graphics in two slow (contended) RAM banks (you don’t want the flickering to drop below 25 Hz). But, yeah, technically, it’s doable.
    Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

    Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
    and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
    Member of the team that discovered, analyzed, and detailed the floating bus behavior on the ZX Spectrum +2A/+3.

    A few Spectrum game fixes.
    Thanked by 1Renegade
  • Holy s**t!

    Now that was unexpected!!

    Really great!!!

    Many Thanks Timmy!!!
  • Okay, so Wanderer does it exactly how I described (not with bank switching, though, but still). Press the “2” key during gameplay to switch to the alternating blue/red flicker-fest. ;)
    Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

    Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
    and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
    Member of the team that discovered, analyzed, and detailed the floating bus behavior on the ZX Spectrum +2A/+3.

    A few Spectrum game fixes.
    Thanked by 1Renegade
  • Timmy wrote: »
    There's also 3 Deep Space, http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0000035
    (sorry i cant edit posts)

    Ah yes, I remember being at the PCW show in 1983, Mike Singleton was there demonstrating the game. I did try it with the 3D glasses but to be honest it didn't seem very good to me. I didn't tell Mike that though!!!
    I wanna tell you a story 'bout a woman I know...
  • edited August 2018
    Attribute clash kind of spoils things if you're doing vectors as you can never tell where the lines are going to fall.
    Pre-computed 2-D vectors that move in whole characters, or sprites that are always smaller than their depth-related-separation distance would work OK, but both are a major limitation.

    It might be possible to work out a view for a 3D corridor block-maze that allows you to draw both 3D colour images on the screen at the same time. A simple flat-shaded block maze view can be done with pre-drawn diagonals and just re-colouring attributes as the view changes (even with blocks above and below as in Knot-in-3D) so an anaglyphic version sounds feasible.

    The Master System 3D works by synchronising two full-colour flickering images with LCD shutter-glasses. If you could control the shutter glasses you could pull off the same trick with a 128K Spectrum.

    You could just flicker two red and cyan displays anyway. It would be smoother if you could swap the screens on alternate pixel lines so part of both images is always present, but that occupies processing time which is desperately needed for vectors. It might be necessary though to avoid totally confusing the eyes.

    The hard part is updating two screens simultaneously, since if you update one first, then the other, the lag will make for some weird distortions that the eyes will have trouble following. And if you use back-buffers, then you need two screen back-buffers and all your game code to fit in the 16K of fast RAM you have left between the two screen banks.

    One approach might be some add-on hardware. Both Spectra and ZX-HD replicate the Spectrum screen memory for producing their video output. Spectra can (and ZX-HD easily could) display the 128K shadow screen whilst the normal Spectrum ULA displays the main screen. If ZX-HD could display an image that blends both together then you'd have something. It might need to binary OR the colours together rather than average them. Or even display them in whatever the accepted format is for 3D TV - if you happen to have one.

    I think the Pentagon can blend two subsequent TV frames together, so with 128K screen-flipping, again you could get it to merge red and cyan images from separate screens, but again they'd be darker overall.

    Another way, someone's already done with a C64, is to display two separate images side-by-side, then display them on a small LCD screen fitted into a VR goggles headset.
    Post edited by joefish on
    Joefish
    - IONIAN-GAMES.com -
  • Well, on a relatively small screen you could display two images period. Then you just cross your eyes—no need for VR goggles. This is probably the easiest method.

    There are quite a few YouTube videos made for cross-eyed viewing. They work great.
    Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

    Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
    and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
    Member of the team that discovered, analyzed, and detailed the floating bus behavior on the ZX Spectrum +2A/+3.

    A few Spectrum game fixes.
  • Okay, so Wanderer does it exactly how I described (not with bank switching, though, but still). Press the “2” key during gameplay to switch to the alternating blue/red flicker-fest. ;)

    Did you notice that

    1 - monoscopic (?) view
    2 - 3D stereoscopic view (with flicker)
    3 - 3D stereoscopic view (no flicker)

    and the performance hit of each mode?
  • Timmy wrote: »
    There's also 3 Deep Space, http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0000035
    (sorry i cant edit posts)

    Ah yes, I remember being at the PCW show in 1983, Mike Singleton was there demonstrating the game. I did try it with the 3D glasses but to be honest it didn't seem very good to me. I didn't tell Mike that though!!!

    I'm afraid I am also having some trouble achieveing stereoscopic effect with anaglypgh glasses.
  • They've never worked very well with the RGB that comes off a telly. Most are given away with printed media where the inks can be tweaked to match the colours in the lenses (which aren't very pure). I've got a LEGO 'Atlantis' DVD somewhere that uses CGI video and sort-of works in the murky underwater scenes. But with the stark, high-contrast lines of a vector graphic game there's far too much cross-over between the images you see in each eye.
    Joefish
    - IONIAN-GAMES.com -
  • Renegade wrote: »
    1 - monoscopic (?) view
    2 - 3D stereoscopic view (with flicker)
    3 - 3D stereoscopic view (no flicker)

    and the performance hit of each mode?

    3 still flickers but at a higher rate. Haven’t looked at the code, but it’s probably locked at 25 Hz (whereas 2 is probably locked at 17 Hz).

    Yes, there will be performance hit, since in either mode you need to perform twice the number of calculations and display each element on screen (well, the gameplay area) twice. I basically outlined it all here.

    I do think that the best we can hope for is a split-screen method for cross-eyed viewing:
    Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

    Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
    and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
    Member of the team that discovered, analyzed, and detailed the floating bus behavior on the ZX Spectrum +2A/+3.

    A few Spectrum game fixes.
  • edited August 2018
    I do think that the best we can hope for is a split-screen method for cross-eyed viewing:

    Ooo - that's quite cool!
    Trying to to keep my eyes crossed, I can feel a headache coming on pretty fast though... :-&
    Post edited by Gwyn on
  • Gwyn wrote: »
    Trying to to keep my eyes crossed, I can feel a headache coming on pretty fast though... :-&

    Heh. You’ll get used to it. I find it strangely satisfying. Took me a tiny bit of time to keep the image in focus the first time I tried it a few years back.
    Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

    Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
    and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
    Member of the team that discovered, analyzed, and detailed the floating bus behavior on the ZX Spectrum +2A/+3.

    A few Spectrum game fixes.
  • Renegade wrote: »


    I do think that the best we can hope for is a split-screen method for cross-eyed viewing:

    What about two Spectrum's, one joystick connected to both computers. One Spectrum assigned L and the other assigned R. Then the trouble would be synchronizing the two spectrums, could that be done over RS2332, or even just by sending / receiving a periodic beep over the Mic and Ear.
    Calling all ASCII Art Architects Visit the WOS Wall of Text and contribute: https://www.yourworldoftext.com/wos
  • Scottie_uk wrote: »
    What about two Spectrum's, one joystick connected to both computers.
    That would fry both Speccies, I’m afraid. ;) Overall, however, it’s doable, if fiddly.
    Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

    Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
    and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
    Member of the team that discovered, analyzed, and detailed the floating bus behavior on the ZX Spectrum +2A/+3.

    A few Spectrum game fixes.
  • there is a demo, i have to find the name, but it uses lightblue and green dotted stripes to create some 3d effect. its done with quich change and there for only dotted lines.
    they even made a 2 gb dvd with an avi on it.
    AHA
    found it
    The Path
    http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11946
    my old website http://home.hccnet.nl/c.born/ has changed to http://www.cborn.nl/zxfiles/ so just click it and select a file
  • Yes, that's an interesting effect.

    But there are others, and I wonder if there is more to it than it meets the eye..
    For example, R-type on the first level has background of dots scrolling at different speeds to create an illusion of depth.
    What's interesting is the alternating color pattern of the dots which, when viewed with anaglyph glasses renders an even more pronounced depth effect!
    I am sure that was unintentional and just pure concidence, right...?
  • R-Type is from 1988 while the anaglyph glasses are from 1853 already.
    So it could be very much intentionaly. BTW are you tallking about Rtype or Path in your last comment? with path i am sure it is intended. i need glasses!!
    my old website http://home.hccnet.nl/c.born/ has changed to http://www.cborn.nl/zxfiles/ so just click it and select a file
  • Yes, R-type allright. Check the first level.
    Btw, what game "Path" are you referring to?
  • Renegade wrote: »
    Yes, R-type allright. Check the first level.
    Btw, what game "Path" are you referring to?
    Crisis wrote: »
    there is a demo, i have to find the name, but it uses lightblue and green dotted stripes to create some 3d effect. its done with quich change and there for only dotted lines.
    they even made a 2 gb dvd with an avi on it.
    AHA
    found it
    The Path
    http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11946
  • Ok, never mind.

    I have to change glasses..
  • With the LCD interlaced graphics it would be possible to have red and green on separate lines, with no clash between the colours. Another option would be to use one dark lens and one light (eg sunglasses with only one lens), then the faster something was moving the closer it would appear to be (dependent on direction and which eye was behind the dark lens. (Items moving fast in the other direction would appear further away, but that would only really work if it was a rotating scene)
  • Nice effort and a good way to learn how to make an attempt at 3D stereoscopic.
Sign In or Register to comment.