And either full membership meaning becoming part of the Eurozone or if not that then Brexit becomes the only rational options it seems to me. I may be wrong, but its possible that even greater union would be required in the future and more loss of national sovereignty.
But that's the real 'project fear' isn't it? That this thing called 'Europe' demands ever more subjugation, as if it's an enitity in itself rather than an agreement between nations over what they want. Why on Earth would our government ever surrender our hard-won exceptions to the Euro currency and other such veto rights?
And what is this 'sovereignty' anyway? Our 'sovereign' doesn't have 'sovereignty' - that was removed from the monarch to parliament under Cromwell such that it was then subject to democratic decisions. It seems this undefined notion of 'sovereignty' is something supposedly eroded by every peace or trade treaty ever signed with another country - as if those are bad things. That's the rhetoric that makes me afraid for our future - that people don't recognise the progress and peace and quality of life these things bring about such that they don't think they're worth keeping.
We the citizens have never had any sovereignty anyway. We are all subjects ruled by others.
The sovereignty thing is waved about by people in this country who want more power in their hands. They don’t like being told what to do, or more likely what not to do, by other people. But at the same time, they want the power to tell us what we can and can’t do...
And never mind that the E.U. is MORE democratic than the U.K....
After all, who elects our head of state?
Who elects the members of the second chamber? [the House of Lords]
Who elects the cabinet?
Who elects the PM?
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
And either full membership meaning becoming part of the Eurozone or if not that then Brexit becomes the only rational options it seems to me. I may be wrong, but its possible that even greater union would be required in the future and more loss of national sovereignty.
But that's the real 'project fear' isn't it? That this thing called 'Europe' demands ever more subjugation, as if it's an enitity in itself rather than an agreement between nations over what they want. Why on Earth would our government ever surrender our hard-won exceptions to the Euro currency and other such veto rights?
And what is this 'sovereignty' anyway? Our 'sovereign' doesn't have 'sovereignty' - that was removed from the monarch to parliament under Cromwell such that it was then subject to democratic decisions. It seems this undefined notion of 'sovereignty' is something supposedly eroded by every peace or trade treaty ever signed with another country - as if those are bad things. That's the rhetoric that makes me afraid for our future - that people don't recognise the progress and peace and quality of life these things bring about such that they don't think they're worth keeping.
I wish people would not confound the specific with the general. Not every trade treaty erodes sovereignty, it depends largely on the terms of any deal entered into, but history teaches us to be more circumspect of the consequences that may follow from what we agree to.
You might remember the attempt to join the ERM in the early 1990s (which tied our interest rates to Germany's set by the Bundesbank) followed by our exit from it a couple of years later, but not without considerable costs.
The point of considering possible negative scenarios is to take action while its possible to avoid them.
I don't want to make you fearful of the future, and by all means do your own research, don't take my word for it. And I haven't said what the consequences might be of greater union because I don't know.
You will get mixed opinions however if you ask about 'quality of life'. Ask people such as George Soros, or some of the EU negotiators you'll get one answer, ask fishermen you'll get another.
Though the EU has since apologised for its Common Fisheries Policy, it stayed in place for 28 years until eventually being scraped, and led to over-fishing of 75% of European fish stocks.
But its not quite right to say "Europe" doesn't require it (increasing union). The EU does. Its not an entity in itself, but gradually circumstances may constrain a nation to go in a direction, that had it left earlier it might well have had other options open to it.
Many people have nothing against Europeans as such but are concerned about increasing union. Some will say they are for Europe by being skeptical of the EU. And its not "project fear", its something that has to be thought about and understood, so that people can make informed decisions when given the opportunity. Those who wanted to become part of the EU in first place, knew that we would be giving up a measure national sovereignty for increased economic agency. For many at that time, it seemed worth it. Please don't confuse national sovereignty with constitutional monarchy.
Currently the EU involves economic and monetary union (currency), though the UK has used its opt out, and has not been part of the Eurozone.
Fiscal (taxation) union may be down the line, particularly if that is seen as a solution to avoid repeats of problems such as the Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis which affected five member countries (Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Cyprus, and Spain).
You all do know that the long term solution to the currency issue is to have one single currency for the entire world. But that’s not going to happen in my lifetime.
One of the worrying things, is that leaving the E.U. may make it more likely that Scotland, Wales and N.I. will leave the U.K. union. Not that a lot of the Scottish, or a lot of the Welsh were ever happy being ruled by the English mind.
So if someone makes the case of sovereignty for the U.K., how long before Scotland or Wales or N.I. use the same argument for independence from England?
And of course England itself is a combination of smaller former Kingdoms...
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
The only economic growth when Boris is Prime Minister will be in the "fact checking" industry.
Take this week. He ranted about kippers having to be packed in plastic pillows. Turns out that was a UK LAW, nothing to do with the EU. And then Boris claimed there would be sufficient supplies to make Mars Bars. Err, the head of Cadbury's planning department has tweeted that in the event of a No-Deal Brexit (which Boris is pushing for) there WILL NOT BE enough supplies to keep production running.
The man is a serial liar and should not be minutes away from being Prime Minister...
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Now Cadburys so called 'Dairy Milk' is made by Hershey and inistinguishable from that horrible companys brown candle wax product. Every food product America gets its hands on is the worse for it. I consider Hershey a thoroughly unscrupulous company that makes 'chocolate' that could double for axle grease.
You should read about FOOD (TM) in 'Good Omens' marketed by Sable aka Famine. I consider it an unfunny horrifying glimpse of what's to come. America has probably the worst food I have ever encountered after tasting a variety made in Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium and of course England.
I find this whole topic - Tory leadership - and its various spin off comments, unbelievably depressing.
I recently got some Cadbury's products from England, and they taste OK.
The US Cadbury as far as I know is a license deal to Hershey, remember a few years back when US "candy" companies were trying to put the kibosh on imported "candy"....and we know why because Hershey's chocs taste like vomit, and every company that does taste even half-good is massively overpriced, and why because they know the main companies are sh*t, but the zombies keep eating it, so they can afford to charge insane money for something that tastes good, because well if it tastes better than the main companies chocs it must be worth a fortune right?
Good job I don't have much of a sweet tooth, never really did, even when I was kid I'd rather have a sausage roll, or a bacon butty than a Chocolate bar, or a cake, or something like a donut......However I do have a massive soft spot for ice cream, or on occasion a really nice dark chocolate.....and at the risk of sounding like a hipster, I really always have liked dark chocolate, before it got all beardy, and skinny jeanish….
Well I DO have a massive hole where my teeth were thanks to my equally massive sweet tooth! I'm a chocaholic too! I agree with you about GOOD dark chocolate like Bournville used to be but fortunately Food Lion our local supermarket chain, is a Belgian company so they stock Belgian chocolate which is simply superb.
I dunno why you have this hate of hipsters, they aren't worth the effort, wankers, just ignore them. That 'Proud Boy' founder Gavin McInnes is a perfect example of a hipster trying to pretend to be a tough guy. Pathetic creep.
Now Cadburys so called 'Dairy Milk' is made by Hershey and inistinguishable from that horrible companys brown candle wax product. Every food product America gets its hands on is the worse for it. I consider Hershey a thoroughly unscrupulous company that makes 'chocolate' that could double for axle grease.
You should read about FOOD (TM) in 'Good Omens' marketed by Sable aka Famine. I consider it an unfunny horrifying glimpse of what's to come. America has probably the worst food I have ever encountered after tasting a variety made in Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium and of course England.
I find this whole topic - Tory leadership - and its various spin off comments, unbelievably depressing.
I am sorry if I have depressed you by bringing up the topic. I think you make some great points about confectionery and food, I haven't tasted a vast variety to compare, but I'll take your word on it, until I get a chance to do a compare. But thinking this or that future is inevitable is a bit depressing.
If there is good chocolate out there, draw peoples attention to it. Then people ask for it in shops. That is the way change happens. I don't think all this negativity is justified, what happens doesn't all depend on who is PM anyway!
But since Cadbury are in the same business, they know what they are talking about - unlike Boris, who is now saying the "spirit" that put a man on the Moon will get us through Brexit. How about the TWENTY YEARS of rocket research and TEN YEARS of planning that went into the Moon landings, Boris?
But since Cadbury are in the same business, they know what they are talking about - unlike Boris, who is now saying the "spirit" that put a man on the Moon will get us through Brexit. How about the TWENTY YEARS of rocket research and TEN YEARS of planning that went into the Moon landings, Boris?
Absolutely agree that Cadbury and many other companies are not happy about the way things are going.
And putting humans on the moon is completely different to a so called frictionless border.
Whenever a Brexiter goes on about “you lost” and similar comments, I ask what preparations have been done, what planning has been done, and if so, where are all these things documented. Strangely they often shut up at that point.
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
He has to go to see the Queen first, but yes hes got the job... and unless the meeting with Her Majesty goes absolutely pear-shaped, and something happens like he accidently head-butts her when bowing, he'll be PM on Thursday i think.
umm. vote of no confidence, general election, Corbyn wins, everyone in a privatised industry loses their job, taxes go up, unemployment goes up, everybody with a private pension gets robbed the list is endless.
Course that could all be ****, but it's no more conjecture than Brexit being a failure, but what do I know i'm not an expert.
I wish Labour would get off their collective @rses and get rid of Corbyn. All the other parties have got a new leader. Then at least there might be some credible opposition to the loosely thatched colostomy bag of a man the Tories have picked.
I wish Labour would get off their collective @rses and get rid of Corbyn. All the other parties have got a new leader. Then at least there might be some credible opposition to the loosely thatched colostomy bag of a man the Tories have picked.
Don't use colostomy bag as an insult. Just call Boris a bag of **** instead.
- 20,000 extra police. Which won't replace the 22,000 cut since 2010, and which will be incredibly difficult to train and equip in the supposed two year time limit.
- an offer to re-negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop, which the EU and Ireland almost immediately rejected
- and a high-speed rail link for the Northern Powerhouse, which the Tories announced in 2014 and could not fund because HS2 was sucking up all the money (and will cost more than double its original budget anyway); given Boris's record with his vanity airport in the Thames and the Garden Bridge in London that was never built (at a cost of £50 MILLION to taxpayers & Londoners), I can't see this one happening either...
Regarding the police cuts/restoration yes its only really getting somewhere near what was there before so no real 'gain' as such.
HS2 well it seems to constantly go up in costs, bit like CrossRail. Although regarding this HS2 business I've not read into it I think if they were actually serious about this 'North Powerhouse' stuff, HS2 would of **started** North and worked down , not the other way around as in they should start as high up in the country as it was even planned to go (including something about a possible extension?) and work down.
A bit like climate change, the pink boat thing. I wonder how the 'protesters' got home ? I still look forward to seeing that pink boat in the other big polluters countries :D aka: US / India / China. The latter is at least it seems trying as I saw a bit on TV last week about how they are expanding solar panels and suchlike, I missed most of the program unfortunately.
Mind you to be completely honest while there's talk of expanding our airports I cannot in any way take any talk of government led climate change combat seriously. I mean you're making it worse by expansion. Can't accept that 100 on a plane is better than 100 cars as unless people's final destination *is* the airport lols, then they are going to seek other means of transport at that end anyway! Plus what actually comes out of jet engines ? There's far too many flights anyway imo, worldwide. People really can't *need* to travel that much/often, especially in this day and age. I realise its probably not as polluting as an I.C.E (is a jet engine still technically an I.C.E?) however its "up in the atmosphere" , sulphur dioxide maybe ?and its a fossil fuel no and they are hardly that economical either, how many gallons does a decent size plane use/hold ? A bit like this recent 'extra' diesel pollution tax in London too, black cabs and buses were exempt as we know they don't really run on diesel and they are rare lol. / end of climate rant.
^ Yes I do my bit, probably more than the neighbours and more than people think however I find it difficult when govt is doing one thing to improve it and potentially another to make it worse. Bit like charging companies carbon tax or whatever it is, that's just revenue gathering, its not going to help *unless* the pollution stops. :)
Back to the 'Brexit' thing, I can see us falling through without a deal now honestly. MP's might try to stop it but the only way to stop it is to revoke no ? As the deadline is set and no matter what laws they pass here unless the EU agree to extend it, it stands in black/white ?
Comments
But his cards are on the table, we kind of know what he's up to, and he's at least slightly entertaining as he wrecks the train....
Don't you believe it. He maybe laying some cards on to table, but what else is he **** up that are up his sleeve and we don't know about yet.
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
And what is this 'sovereignty' anyway? Our 'sovereign' doesn't have 'sovereignty' - that was removed from the monarch to parliament under Cromwell such that it was then subject to democratic decisions. It seems this undefined notion of 'sovereignty' is something supposedly eroded by every peace or trade treaty ever signed with another country - as if those are bad things. That's the rhetoric that makes me afraid for our future - that people don't recognise the progress and peace and quality of life these things bring about such that they don't think they're worth keeping.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
The sovereignty thing is waved about by people in this country who want more power in their hands. They don’t like being told what to do, or more likely what not to do, by other people. But at the same time, they want the power to tell us what we can and can’t do...
And never mind that the E.U. is MORE democratic than the U.K....
After all, who elects our head of state?
Who elects the members of the second chamber? [the House of Lords]
Who elects the cabinet?
Who elects the PM?
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
I wish people would not confound the specific with the general. Not every trade treaty erodes sovereignty, it depends largely on the terms of any deal entered into, but history teaches us to be more circumspect of the consequences that may follow from what we agree to.
You might remember the attempt to join the ERM in the early 1990s (which tied our interest rates to Germany's set by the Bundesbank) followed by our exit from it a couple of years later, but not without considerable costs.
The point of considering possible negative scenarios is to take action while its possible to avoid them.
I don't want to make you fearful of the future, and by all means do your own research, don't take my word for it. And I haven't said what the consequences might be of greater union because I don't know.
You will get mixed opinions however if you ask about 'quality of life'. Ask people such as George Soros, or some of the EU negotiators you'll get one answer, ask fishermen you'll get another.
Though the EU has since apologised for its Common Fisheries Policy, it stayed in place for 28 years until eventually being scraped, and led to over-fishing of 75% of European fish stocks.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8635623/European-Commission-apologises-for-disastrous-fishing-policy.html
But its not quite right to say "Europe" doesn't require it (increasing union). The EU does. Its not an entity in itself, but gradually circumstances may constrain a nation to go in a direction, that had it left earlier it might well have had other options open to it.
Many people have nothing against Europeans as such but are concerned about increasing union. Some will say they are for Europe by being skeptical of the EU. And its not "project fear", its something that has to be thought about and understood, so that people can make informed decisions when given the opportunity. Those who wanted to become part of the EU in first place, knew that we would be giving up a measure national sovereignty for increased economic agency. For many at that time, it seemed worth it. Please don't confuse national sovereignty with constitutional monarchy.
Currently the EU involves economic and monetary union (currency), though the UK has used its opt out, and has not been part of the Eurozone.
Fiscal (taxation) union may be down the line, particularly if that is seen as a solution to avoid repeats of problems such as the Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis which affected five member countries (Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Cyprus, and Spain).
One of the worrying things, is that leaving the E.U. may make it more likely that Scotland, Wales and N.I. will leave the U.K. union. Not that a lot of the Scottish, or a lot of the Welsh were ever happy being ruled by the English mind.
So if someone makes the case of sovereignty for the U.K., how long before Scotland or Wales or N.I. use the same argument for independence from England?
And of course England itself is a combination of smaller former Kingdoms...
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
Take this week. He ranted about kippers having to be packed in plastic pillows. Turns out that was a UK LAW, nothing to do with the EU. And then Boris claimed there would be sufficient supplies to make Mars Bars. Err, the head of Cadbury's planning department has tweeted that in the event of a No-Deal Brexit (which Boris is pushing for) there WILL NOT BE enough supplies to keep production running.
The man is a serial liar and should not be minutes away from being Prime Minister...
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
You should read about FOOD (TM) in 'Good Omens' marketed by Sable aka Famine. I consider it an unfunny horrifying glimpse of what's to come. America has probably the worst food I have ever encountered after tasting a variety made in Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium and of course England.
I find this whole topic - Tory leadership - and its various spin off comments, unbelievably depressing.
https://mb.boardhost.com/BikerMike/index.html?1593001131
The US Cadbury as far as I know is a license deal to Hershey, remember a few years back when US "candy" companies were trying to put the kibosh on imported "candy"....and we know why because Hershey's chocs taste like vomit, and every company that does taste even half-good is massively overpriced, and why because they know the main companies are sh*t, but the zombies keep eating it, so they can afford to charge insane money for something that tastes good, because well if it tastes better than the main companies chocs it must be worth a fortune right?
Good job I don't have much of a sweet tooth, never really did, even when I was kid I'd rather have a sausage roll, or a bacon butty than a Chocolate bar, or a cake, or something like a donut......However I do have a massive soft spot for ice cream, or on occasion a really nice dark chocolate.....and at the risk of sounding like a hipster, I really always have liked dark chocolate, before it got all beardy, and skinny jeanish….
I dunno why you have this hate of hipsters, they aren't worth the effort, wankers, just ignore them. That 'Proud Boy' founder Gavin McInnes is a perfect example of a hipster trying to pretend to be a tough guy. Pathetic creep.
https://mb.boardhost.com/BikerMike/index.html?1593001131
I am sorry if I have depressed you by bringing up the topic. I think you make some great points about confectionery and food, I haven't tasted a vast variety to compare, but I'll take your word on it, until I get a chance to do a compare. But thinking this or that future is inevitable is a bit depressing.
If there is good chocolate out there, draw peoples attention to it. Then people ask for it in shops. That is the way change happens. I don't think all this negativity is justified, what happens doesn't all depend on who is PM anyway!
But since Cadbury are in the same business, they know what they are talking about - unlike Boris, who is now saying the "spirit" that put a man on the Moon will get us through Brexit. How about the TWENTY YEARS of rocket research and TEN YEARS of planning that went into the Moon landings, Boris?
Question: "What about this glaring issue right in front of us?"
Answer: "Well, look at the moon...".
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
And putting humans on the moon is completely different to a so called frictionless border.
Whenever a Brexiter goes on about “you lost” and similar comments, I ask what preparations have been done, what planning has been done, and if so, where are all these things documented. Strangely they often shut up at that point.
Mark
Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
WoS - can't download? Info here...
former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread
! Standby alert !
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
The clown is now in charged.
@luny@mstdn.games
https://www.luny.co.uk
HL = Hell ? Depends on who you ask I guess.
umm. vote of no confidence, general election, Corbyn wins, everyone in a privatised industry loses their job, taxes go up, unemployment goes up, everybody with a private pension gets robbed the list is endless.
Course that could all be ****, but it's no more conjecture than Brexit being a failure, but what do I know i'm not an expert.
I predict a(nother) Scottish/Welsh referendum coming.
- IONIAN-GAMES.com -
Don't use colostomy bag as an insult. Just call Boris a bag of **** instead.
Oh no. I prefer to call him "Britain Trump" instead. But then, doesn't everybody??
https://discordapp.com/invite/cZt59EQ
- 20,000 extra police. Which won't replace the 22,000 cut since 2010, and which will be incredibly difficult to train and equip in the supposed two year time limit.
- an offer to re-negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement without the backstop, which the EU and Ireland almost immediately rejected
- and a high-speed rail link for the Northern Powerhouse, which the Tories announced in 2014 and could not fund because HS2 was sucking up all the money (and will cost more than double its original budget anyway); given Boris's record with his vanity airport in the Thames and the Garden Bridge in London that was never built (at a cost of £50 MILLION to taxpayers & Londoners), I can't see this one happening either...
HS2 well it seems to constantly go up in costs, bit like CrossRail. Although regarding this HS2 business I've not read into it I think if they were actually serious about this 'North Powerhouse' stuff, HS2 would of **started** North and worked down , not the other way around as in they should start as high up in the country as it was even planned to go (including something about a possible extension?) and work down.
A bit like climate change, the pink boat thing. I wonder how the 'protesters' got home ? I still look forward to seeing that pink boat in the other big polluters countries :D aka: US / India / China. The latter is at least it seems trying as I saw a bit on TV last week about how they are expanding solar panels and suchlike, I missed most of the program unfortunately.
Mind you to be completely honest while there's talk of expanding our airports I cannot in any way take any talk of government led climate change combat seriously. I mean you're making it worse by expansion. Can't accept that 100 on a plane is better than 100 cars as unless people's final destination *is* the airport lols, then they are going to seek other means of transport at that end anyway! Plus what actually comes out of jet engines ? There's far too many flights anyway imo, worldwide. People really can't *need* to travel that much/often, especially in this day and age. I realise its probably not as polluting as an I.C.E (is a jet engine still technically an I.C.E?) however its "up in the atmosphere" , sulphur dioxide maybe ?and its a fossil fuel no and they are hardly that economical either, how many gallons does a decent size plane use/hold ? A bit like this recent 'extra' diesel pollution tax in London too, black cabs and buses were exempt as we know they don't really run on diesel and they are rare lol. / end of climate rant.
^ Yes I do my bit, probably more than the neighbours and more than people think however I find it difficult when govt is doing one thing to improve it and potentially another to make it worse. Bit like charging companies carbon tax or whatever it is, that's just revenue gathering, its not going to help *unless* the pollution stops. :)
Back to the 'Brexit' thing, I can see us falling through without a deal now honestly. MP's might try to stop it but the only way to stop it is to revoke no ? As the deadline is set and no matter what laws they pass here unless the EU agree to extend it, it stands in black/white ?